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FPSC Classic Product Chat / FPS Creator: What's Next?

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Squelchy Tom
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Posted: 8th Nov 2007 17:24
I would rather people worked on the x10's bugs which it is sure to have when its released however i see that not everyone has a pc or the money to run it, I too would still like to use this version even when the newer one is out, so if your asking for what can be made better, i shall contrbute:

-better framerates, through whatever means
-multiplayer updates, letting us use frags in multiplayer would be a godsend
-Change the decals so they dont look like 2 pictures made on paint in 10 minutes!
-have a shot at fixing all the majour bugs.
Uthink
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Posted: 8th Nov 2007 18:07
Quote: "That is already possible.
Quote: "3. Game objectives"
"


It's not conditional is it? It's just a winzone for a level. Can I say you must collect certain items and kill one character but not the other to win? Without complex scripting. I don't think there's any realistic way to do an inventory right now.

"I'm trying to find new ways to make this game more attractive." - Dennis Rodman
Plystire
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Posted: 9th Nov 2007 00:38 Edited at: 18th Nov 2007 03:05
@Uthink:

You can do exactly what you said without having to do any scripting. There would be a field in an entities properties called "Is Objective"... give that an incremental value along with all the other items and people to kill.

Killing someone and getting a game over is going to need scripting, because that is not objective related. But seriously... how hard is it to open up a destroy script and type in:

plraddhealth=-10000




The one and only,
~PlystirE~

Urlforce:
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Storm 6000
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Posted: 9th Nov 2007 14:10
Plystire has a point game objectives has been done fairly well, they may be able to expand it slightly but more things are possible. What you seemed to be posting about is certainly do able and just collecting certain items and killing certain enemies to win can be done even without scripts as said

Thanks
Adam
Doctor Who
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Posted: 9th Nov 2007 17:30
Something else that comes to mind would be the game builder editor.

Right now I can add levels to the game I want to build but I can't change the order without deleting and adding again. Also a per-level setup for the sky, music, and so-on.

I straddle the line between genius and insanity. Guess which side I'm on now?
Uthink
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Posted: 9th Nov 2007 18:15
Quote: "Killing someone and getting a game over is going to need scripting, because that is not objective related. But seriously... how hard is it to open up a destroy script and type in"


You didn't catch all of my statement. It's not killing someone, it's killing a specific someone. Which is a real objective. It's just that fpsc didn't include it. An objective is any action taken to achieve a goal. It can collecting an item, killing an enemy, or even opening doors in a particular order.

I like security in my games, or puzzles. In the real word, for good security or puzzles you need to commit certain actions in a particular order and a specific times to make it past decent security systems or solve problems. This ability in fpsc is very limited. Expanding on this would greatly increase gameplay variety . We need a lot more diversity in our fps games. Otherwise why build it. I know I can't compete with Doom. So I need to make something that Doom doesn't have but still qualify as an fps. Just MHO. Lee can take it for what he likes.

"I'm trying to find new ways to make this game more attractive." - Dennis Rodman
Uthink
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Posted: 9th Nov 2007 18:19
Quote: "Also a per-level setup for the sky, music, and so-on"


Building on that, the ability to change the skybox at any time during gameplay would be nice.

"I'm trying to find new ways to make this game more attractive." - Dennis Rodman
piXX3D
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Posted: 11th Nov 2007 14:11
Ragdolls would be awesome.

REALISTIC lighting would be awesomer. I keep finding the lighting is all, upside downey.

Speed issues fixed would be awesomest.

And having team a.i. etc. would be outta this world.

www.ciphersoftware.co.uk
tyrano man
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Posted: 13th Nov 2007 16:42 Edited at: 13th Nov 2007 16:42
Variables. Rolfy has showed us that we can get around the problems of framerates through good level design and poly usage. Lee should fix those he knows which slow down AI, and then implement Variables and upgrade the .fpi script. Just with variables so much could be accomplished. points, money, stats, kill a certain ammount to advance.

The possibilities are endless.

Tyrano

TATBS 1.8 is now fully functional. Brilodis is having its districts extracted to Battle City. Krina and Karin are twice the size. And you’ll see 5 times as many breeds of monsters... It’s Kalspher V3.
creator of zombies
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Posted: 13th Nov 2007 21:34
My votes are:
1.Dark AI
2. Better Physics
3. Variables
4. Better shaders
5. Better Lighting (Dynamic shadows etc)
6. Paralax mapping etc
7. Fix Culling issues + Better Collision



Nickydude
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Posted: 13th Nov 2007 22:03
Remember guys, you can vote here: http://www.madladdesigns.co.uk/fpsc/FPSCPoll.html

"he is coming!..." - WIP in 'Showcase'
Slayer222
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Posted: 13th Nov 2007 22:14 Edited at: 14th Nov 2007 01:10
Here are the things FPSC needs fixed or added IMO. With these, selling a game making it becoming popular and well loved would be very easy to do. The ideas are in order from most to least important.

(1) Better frame-rates: GPU instancing, timer based games and overall source code tweaks could all help drastically improve FPSCs somewhat disappointing performance. This is my number one concern for FPSC.

(2) Better scripting: The AI is currently very easy to predict and usually motionless, Dark AI could be a possible fix for this, and with AI like X10s, everyone would probably be more than happy. WE also need allies.

(3) Multi-player: The multi-player is not very up to date to say the least. A TDM and CTF option would open up FPSC for a whole range of other fascinating MP levels and updates. Also the ability for co-op and dynamic entities (Or at least projectile weapons) would be very hard to implement no doubt but they would certainly rank FPSC up by the COD MP and many other games as well. Also I would like to be able to have a Multi-player button for our SP games like basically every other game in the world or at least a MP .exe that can have more than one game with a level browser or something. If the multi-player is improved FPSC will be much more useful as many games these days rely on good MP to get their customers.

(4) Improved physics: including weapon physics, rag-doll, a fix for that glitch with the physics. Example: If you put a dynamic entity with physics (such as ammo) inside the stock barrel (the one without a lid) with physics on to make the player have to blow it open or tip it over to get the ammo the entities fly apart when the game starts. Rag-doll is a standard for most games and since the animation in FPSC is well, super boring rag-doll would certainly be a great addition to our FPSC games.

(5) The final one, turrets and improved weapon systems: Turrets are in most games today and they are great for WWII games (MG 42s and such). The weapons system in FPSC needs some work IMO, maybe make an option in the build game menu to choose the way your games weapon system works? There could be a halo style one, with a set limit of how many weapons you can carry at a time and the ability to swap one weapon for another. I wouldn't even care if you didn't drop your old weapon and it just disappeared out of your arsenal as spawning it back into the game would be a lot of work never mind the swapping system itself. A zone where you lose all your weapons is necessary IMO, add this in and it will open up the story more and maybe add more realism to your game.

Most of these were promised for the original FPSC, never mind X10, but just a few of these features would really make FPSC a whole lot better
*Slayer_2
P.S. I E-mailed Lee about this thread and asked what was going to be ported from X10 to FPSC. Here is what he said:

Quote: "Fear not, I plan to continue working on FPSC for Windows XP a year or few; it has a lot of life left in it and a LOT of users who swear by it. It is true many of the X10 features are being migrated back into FPSC X9 including ragdoll, underwater, new AI, resource meter. This is simply a side effect of merging the source code (so that X10 code compiles under the X9 language) so I only have one FPSC to debug, rather than two. Frame rate is something that will be given it’s own session too, and not just for FPSC but DBP itself (if I get the time to play with some n-core stuff)."


So there you go, confirmation that at least some of X10s features will be back-ported into FPSC.

EOT
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Inspire
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Posted: 14th Nov 2007 02:17
After pushing FPSC to the limit recently, I've come up with a revised list.

1. Better framerates! I don't care how you do it, the current ones aren't manageable.

2. Dark AI. Plain and simple.

3. Variables.

4. Better lighting, same as what CoZ said.

5. Safe zones (cover zones? Whatever X10 has to tell the enemies where they are safe, but I'm pretty sure that this is a Dark AI thing).

Slayer222
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Posted: 14th Nov 2007 03:55
According to Lee, every one of those should be added except for variables.

EOT
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creator of zombies
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Posted: 14th Nov 2007 22:35
@Slayer222: Thats great to hear. Better start holding our breath for when the time comes. *Starts holding breath.......passes out*



Inspire
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Posted: 14th Nov 2007 23:15
Freakin' awesome! Can't wait.

I absolutely cannot wait for the next source code release either. I might stick around a bit...

Slayer222
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Posted: 14th Nov 2007 23:15
yeah thats what I'm afraid of too. the updates could be in a month or 2 years...

EOT
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Ice Cube
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Posted: 16th Nov 2007 00:12
I haven't checked this for a while, but I will suggest a better error handling. It's quite poor now.

Inspire
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Posted: 16th Nov 2007 03:25
Ugh...I want this contest to freakin' end so I could work on a different game.

Corky
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Posted: 16th Nov 2007 03:54 Edited at: 16th Nov 2007 03:55
Im just going to make a list of what I want to see in the updates. I know some of these are already listed, but I feel the urge to put them down. They are going from most important to least important.


1)Better Framerate

As of right now my computer, is probably one of the worst on the whole forums, but I still attempt to make games, and when I do I get some average comments about them.(Thanks everybody)

I'm not really about this idea for me, but mostly for the community because I know even if they do fix it my computer will still run slow. I really want this because as an independent game maker, it gets really hard to make a decent game with the slowest frame rate, and right now it feels like if I put 10 entity's in a room I get 18 frames a second or something like that. When you add everything up it goes even slower. Now tell me who wants to play a game at 15 frames a second. No one, so mostly this is why I want to have better frame rates.

2) Vehicles

Every game from 1990 and up had a vehicle in it, well maybe not but you know what I mean. By Vehicles I mean psychic's for them, maybe turrets attached, many different kinds of Vehicles, and no not just a stop and go button, I mean fully active Vehicles. I want everything that an fps game with a vehicle has in it, in Fps Creator in the future.

3)Better Lights

No more just boring omni lighting, im tired of it and it sucks. I want directional lighting, and every other type of lighting. It would make games much more real looking. It would also open up a lot more creativity.

4) Better Fighting System

I did didn't want to just put a better gun system because I would also like to see some better melee, you know let the enemy's come up and hit you with a baseball bat.

Now with the guns I would like to see( cant think of the name right now its where when you shoot you can see a bullet trail).
Maybe Rockets or something to.

5) An Awesome Particle System

^^^^^
Read that

TGPEG
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Posted: 16th Nov 2007 19:04
@ Corky: I think your post was definitive of what the most basic needs are for FPSC. Although the particle system may be less important because you can already sort of do that with decals mate.

[center]
tomjscott
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Posted: 16th Nov 2007 20:20
I've only started using FPS Creator, but there are 2 things I would like to see already.

1. A GUI based Entity maker Tool.

It's really nice to be able to set up entities with the existing tool, but it takes far longer than necessary with the current sequential command prompt method. With a GUI, I should be able to just pick the entities from a list box, which would bring up the properties already filled with their defaults. Then I can simply make a few adjustments, create a snapshot, and move on to the next item.

2. A true particle system.
Slayer222
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Posted: 16th Nov 2007 21:30
What about performance? Allies? turrets?

EOT
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General powell11
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Posted: 16th Nov 2007 23:38
yea what about allies? better ai? i would like frame rate(as in more entitys in a room, like maby 50 and better ai (maby dark ai?:-more entities like 50 enimies in one room without a singal framerate drop ) vehicles if possible, and maby better effects(as in bloom explosian etc etc)

Check out my WIP game, and comment at-----http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=110649&b=25
TGPEG
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Posted: 17th Nov 2007 10:19
Quote: "maby dark ai?:-more entities like 50 enimies in one room without a singal framerate drop ) vehicles if possible, and maby better effects(as in bloom explosian etc etc)"


Shouldn't be too hard

[center]
Slayer222
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Posted: 17th Nov 2007 20:47
Yeah, toss in a built in terrain editor well your at it

EOT
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da power pwnerer
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Posted: 17th Nov 2007 21:30 Edited at: 17th Nov 2007 21:32
A few of my thoughts:
-Improved Framerates The framerates are pretty low as of now.

-Improved Multiplayer 8 Players? Come on!

-Improved Physics How about not falling at a speed of 0.0001 if you jump somewhere. Is there like a hidden parachute or something!?

-More Choices Let's face it... Mostly every game made with FPSCreator looks the same. The exact same!! How about support for different genres of games, and yes, I know, I know... The name is FPSCreator. I've heard it all before.

-Built-in Scripting I think it is unconvenient that we have to download different software just to make a simple script. Of course you can use MS Word and such, but it would be a huge improvement with syntax highlighting and a debugger.

-Vehicles Vehicles would allow us to really use creativity. We could be able to alter the weight of the vehicle, the suspension of the vehicle, etc.

-Altering Main Elements We should be able to change main variables, such as world gravity, FPS(This would require better framerates too), and the grid size to the editor.

That is all I have to say for now.




-Dan


http://Freewebs.com/noobisoft
Come to Noobisoft's website today!
uman
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Posted: 18th Nov 2007 02:00 Edited at: 18th Nov 2007 02:13
If you want vehicles whether ground moving or of the flying entities variety of any kind which most gamemakers could find a place for somewhere in their games then one would need a larger world size. The current world size is just riduclously small for contemplating such.

As a player you can walk from one end of the FPSC world in a minute or two so entities particularly large ones moving at speed just have nowhere to go except around or upwards or downwards in tight spiraling circles. Not very flexible game making but OK if you could achieve it but is very limiting when every game again will basically have to do the same thing. OK if you want to make a racing game with everything in miniture if you could achieve that too but it wont be GTA.

Having said that it would be very useful nevertheless to have better control and results for moving entities especially small flying enemies which currently pose some problems (Physics/Gravity). They can be very good in a game and can legitimately look quite good in quite small areas. Aircraft and such are a bit limited I would suggest. Cars, lorries, trains, well not much room for them really. I have a train which can hardly pass the player before it gets to the end of the world so cant move anywhere into the distance out of sight even. Some trickery is needed. Helicopters of the smaller variety are just about possible in getting them to move around looking reasonable to the world perimiter though they also pose some serious problems currently in doing that.

There are other erronous bugs or impediments which limit moving entities related to player proximity and activation. Outdoor levels themselves at the moment also pose numerous other problems even with the current world size. FPSC currently is not in a condition to support vehicles. All these things need fixing as a pre-requisite.

All very desirable and I am sure we all support the requests but I doubt you will get them. Its asking a lot given FPSC current standing.




"There are those who said this day would never come - What have they to say Now?"
FredP
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Posted: 18th Nov 2007 03:15 Edited at: 18th Nov 2007 03:16
I have a feeling if we want some things (drivable vehicles,for example) we are going to have to mod the source code when TGC releases it.I have to agree with Uman about vehicles.Why get in a car to go to your mail box (unless your mail box is at the post office or elsewhere in which case this does not apply...) when you can walk there in a few seconds.
My wishes (that I hope come true...)
I think improving on the polygon leaks and other FPS improvements as well as better (or more efficient) enemy AI.These two things seem to kill my fps rate.
Things I'd like to see...
Decreased file sizes (it can be done).
Better physics.

It would be nice if you had the option of changing things in your test game on the fly like FPSC x10.That would save an immeasurable amount of time having to make a minor adjustment,test,rinse and repeat.

Please have mercy and use the search function.
Mr Makealotofsmoke
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Posted: 18th Nov 2007 03:15
if you think about it, use can almost fix all of those problems with fpsc (expect maybe framerate and a few others) with variables. Variables can also let us have good AI and more mission based things and CTF and stuff.

YAY, We Got Our MUSIC BOARD!!!!
Inspire
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Posted: 18th Nov 2007 20:19
Quote: "1. A GUI based Entity maker Tool."


On my list of things to do after the compo.

Dan the man
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Posted: 18th Nov 2007 21:54
Better graphics no pointy heads more detal.

Peace out...
da power pwnerer
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Posted: 19th Nov 2007 03:18
Quote: "Better graphics no pointy heads more detal."

If you learn to model correctly, this won't happen to you.



-Dan


http://Freewebs.com/noobisoft
Come to Noobisoft's website today!
uman
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Posted: 19th Nov 2007 22:08
FredP has the correct pre-requisites isolated for improved performance in FPSC.

The poly count leaks and compile overuns he refers to, together with AI drain limits severely what can be achieved with FPSC currently.

TGC may attempt to improve the AI situation some time down the road which may alieviate some of the strain. I have my doubts whether or not that will be successful but I should think no one knows until such is put in place and tested exetnsively.

That still leaves the issues realting to excessive poly counts and there may be more than one simple reason for those.

One also need consider that TGC has limited options as the development of FPSC was gazumped by the forward development of Microsoft in areas of software devleopment code FPSC relies upon to function within source.

FPSC V1 had the best chance improvement by fixing of issues at a time when it existed. Since then the goalposts have been moved somewhat apparently by Microsofts and other software and hardware developments.

One cant go back and so it seems the difficulties facing FPSC currently over issue crushing may be very difficult for either TGC or users to effectively overcome in realtion to the source.

Personally I take my hat off to anyone who would be brave enough to try.

But I waffle, we must wait and see or if we can not then perhaps look to FPSC's big brother for the future of our game making in the hope that it may offer a resolution to at least some of the current FPSC users difficulties.

A lot of improvements have been made to the Current FPSC but it seems to me at least that they are superficial in as much as they do not provide at least many users with what they need from a game making tool that will allow them to complete the games they aspire to, even within the parameters of a budget priced game making tool.

You can see from the same by and large repeated requests in this thread that the main things that users need and have always needed to complete finished games whatever the tool used still aludes them. They are the things aforementioned which without one will have exceedingly great difficulty in generating good game levels with good gameplay over the size of even the current 40 x 40 tile world size of FPSC without even contemplating anything larger.

There are very few I am aware of out of who knows how many purchasers of FPSC from following threads at the forum that are able to sustain their game level making to success without encountering serious gameplay difficulties which prevent them from continuing or wishing to continue to a game completion.

FPSC is fun for sure but for most users I would think that because the tool actually makes the successful making of a reasonable game seem something of a possible reality that may be achieveable their aspirations to achieve that are perhaps overly expectant.

So near



yet so far



"There are those who said this day would never come - What have they to say Now?"
TGPEG
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Posted: 19th Nov 2007 23:12
Quote: "FPSC is fun for sure but for most users I would think that because the tool actually makes the successful making of a reasonable game seem something of a possible reality that may be achieveable their aspirations to achieve that are perhaps overly expectant."


I agree. People expecting to be able to make the next Hal... err... GTA, should probably look at the more expensive end of the Game Dev spectrum... and remortgage their house by the looks of it.

[center]
noshades
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Posted: 21st Nov 2007 04:49
Framerates are a big issue.. In Microsoft Flight simulator development we have had a (In -out) drawing for an object..To explain--an object like a 3d person with 5000 polys do not need to appear from a mile away..so we make it appear from 50 ft away -or 5 feet away or an inch away..with FPS creator the 10,000 poly 3d characters on an big open room or landscape are always being drawn and killing framerates..outdoor games like call of duty or MOH could never use this the way it is..Im sure they have some sort of (In and out) drawing of 3d characters removing them from memory or adding them as you go..Thats whats happening
Dan the man
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Posted: 21st Nov 2007 06:24
This is my opinion.
1.better frame rate
2.ragdoll physics
3.New multiplayer options
4.water and last
5.Upgraded blood.

Peace out...
Inspire
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Posted: 21st Nov 2007 07:00
Quote: "5.Upgraded blood."


You can do that yourself.

Slayer222
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Posted: 21st Nov 2007 21:27
Not how it appears. Maybe he wants to make it splatter down by their feet?

EOT
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General powell11
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Posted: 22nd Nov 2007 04:40
Quote: "Not how it appears. Maybe he wants to make it splatter down by their feet"
, or not just an explosian of blood looking like he was blown up with a 50. cal. machine gun , and bloow coming on the ground, not on a wall 50 feet away!

Check out my WIP game, and comment at-----http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=110649&b=25
Inspire
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Posted: 22nd Nov 2007 05:25
Wonder how far away that blood will go? I mean, if you shot a guy on one side of the FPSC map area, would it be on a wall on the opposite side?

Benjamin
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Posted: 22nd Nov 2007 10:23
It'd be nice to have feces splatter everywhere when someone dies.

Tempest (DBP/DBCe)
Multisync V1 (DBP/DBCe)
FredP
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Posted: 22nd Nov 2007 14:31
Quote: "It'd be nice to have feces splatter everywhere when someone dies."


Just change the color of the blood decal to a sick brownish color.

Please have mercy and use the search function.
Benjamin
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Posted: 22nd Nov 2007 16:30
Quiet, you're making my mouth water.

Tempest (DBP/DBCe)
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Inspire
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Posted: 22nd Nov 2007 16:47
LOL!

[caps off]

Dan the man
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Posted: 23rd Nov 2007 05:59
R u shore that the creators of fpsc would up date it?

Who are you and why are you here?
dark coder
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Posted: 23rd Nov 2007 08:22
Quote: "R u shore that the creators of fpsc would up date it?"


What? There are Resource Units located on a shore that TGC are dating FPSC on?

Also I played Doom3 all the way through the other day and noticed how similar FPSC attempts to be, though now it looks like they're copying UT3 *cough* flak cannon.

I say attempts because it isn't anywhere near as good, one of the main features I liked about Doom3 was the map interactivity as many of the computers weren't just static props but you could move a cursor on the screen and click things, some of the computers didn't even do anything to help you in the level but they were cool. Things like this definitely need to be added as the engine(other than graphics) is barely more advanced than DOOM1(and many parts of that are more advanced).

FredP
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Posted: 23rd Nov 2007 14:29 Edited at: 23rd Nov 2007 14:30
Quote: "I liked about Doom3 was the map interactivity as many of the computers weren't just static props but you could move a cursor on the screen and click things, some of the computers didn't even do anything to help you in the level but they were cool."


You can do things like that with scripting already.FPSC is quite limited as an engine in some ways (there...I said something bad about FPSC so no fanboy comments...) but with a little imagination (and/or a good app like Signs) you can do things like this.
As a matter of fact I have a project I am working on in the sci-fi area with FPSC and you can interact with most computers and terminals with it.

There are several things that FPSC cannot do that other engines can but you have to remember that this is the very first release of FPSC.Any engine that you would normally compare FPSC to (Torque is a common one) has been around longer and have had more time to develop their engine.
I give TGC credit.FPSC has come a long way since v1.What is going to be really cool is when they release the next source code for FPSC and we get to play with it.
I would say if you are any good or interested in coding that DarkBasic would be good to work with since you can do more with it.
It just requires the knowledge and effort to program it.
I think that if you take FPSC for what it is and you can have fun with it then you got your money's worth.
I am sure that when they do the big update for FPSC and people start modding the source code we're going to see some cool stuff.

Please have mercy and use the search function.
KeithC
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Posted: 23rd Nov 2007 15:52
Quote: "What? There are Resource Units located on a shore that TGC are dating FPSC on?"

I know I'm supposed to be impartial....but that was just too funny!

Bloder
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Posted: 23rd Nov 2007 20:38
FPS creator is really cool. I don't know what's next but I think a moddeler only for it would be really coooool!

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