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Geek Culture / TGC Supported Community Competitions

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dark coder
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Posted: 6th May 2008 06:36
I can understand what people are saying that it's hard to either learn to make artwork required for a game(as there are many aspects you need to learn) or to find artists willing to work on your game. But if this is the issue then you can always make games that require less art or art that isn't of this type. Take games like Geometry Wars, Audiosurf and games by Introversion Software, collectively these games use artwork noway near the quality of other games of its time but still did very well, and aren't they all indie games? The difference is that their games don't require artwork similar to what you'd see in most modern day games or piles of shaders, just simple clean artwork or computer generated ones, especially in the case of Audiosurf.

If this were a programming contest to program some type of algorithm or database etc then absolutely, the graphics would not matter one single bit. But this is a games programming contest, your aim is to make a game at the end of the compo, not just very well written code that does very impressive things, if that were the case all you'd need to enter was the code and possibly a video showing these advanced things. But instead you need to enter a semi finished game or game demo, and one major aspect to a game is what the end user sees, if the end user sees a bunch of poorly placed cubes with graphical errors everywhere and with poor lighting so the user can't see the difference between the cubes and the walls behind it, you can very well expect the game won't place well, even if the cubes moved using an advanced neural net with extensive learning abilities about the scene and your actions, it wouldn't play well if the user can't see anything. Though this isn't to say that cubes cannot look good, I recall playing one indie Japanese R-Type like game where everything was made from cubes, that was quite an interesting game, though I can't remember the name of it.

So I'm not sure what types of games you were expecting to make if graphics wouldn't be the main thing people initially see, thus most likely affecting their first impressions. There are many sources of free 3D/2D artwork on the internet so use those, if those aren't right for your game, i.e. the polygon count is too high, then learn to make the art, if you lack the time then find someone who can for free, if you can't find someone to do that then find someone who can for a price, If you don't have the money make a simpler game, you have many choices, and like I said above, audiosurf's maps and general scenery are almost all procedurally generated from what I gather, which means the programmer(s) for it spent a lot of time writing code to generate that media, if you want more of a coding oriented compo then why not yourself write a game where everything is procedurally generated?

Quote: "Every contest I've been in, all the winning games have been the games with the best artwork."


Which compos are those? Assuming you're talking about the TGC ones, I'll have to disagree, I'd say all the winners had clean artwork that worked for that style, but assuming you're mainly talking about the Alienware compo I'd have to say the game was quite polished, even though it didn't use the provided alien model, you only saw the head and not during the actual gameplay, so the importance of the model wasn't quite fully enforced but that doesn't stop it being a sound entry.

So the moral of the story is, to win or at least stand a good chance in a TGC compo you need to have a game that has nice artwork that fits the style(not has the most triangles possible or shaders), have a solid game that is as bug free as you can make it and isn't too ambitious so you can then expand on a working entry and not have a half made game with 3 days 'till the deadline and you rush to wrap the game up(Though I did this for all but one of my entries ), lastly to have clean audio/music that fits the style. If your game is more complex then you may also require some type of tutorial or controls written somewhere but other than that you should have a fully working entry that will do well. If you manage to do all this before the deadline then you can add things to it.

Kentaree
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Posted: 6th May 2008 15:14
I personally think a retro compo is a good excuse to NOT have flashy graphics, and graphics definitely wont make up the bulk of points we'll award to games. Unfortunately, as we're already taking a lot longer than we'd like, I doubt we'll change to a different compo type at the moment. I'm working on the site at the moment which should hopefully be up in the next few days, time permitting. Once that's up, everything should get rolling quickly and hopefully we'll get this properly under way.

Chris K
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Posted: 7th May 2008 12:57
Awesome.

Good work Kentaree.

-= Out here in the fields, I fight for my meals =-
Beast E Gargoyle
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Posted: 8th May 2008 05:25
Is this compotetion going to be a retro remake. My team and I are working hard on remaking Streets of Rage and would be willing to enter it, if the contest theme is retro remakes. I hope it goes with it. Although, does the game have to be finished? We might have a couple level's ready now, but the whole game isn't finished. All the best,
Beastegargoyle

Streets of Rage the best 3d beat em up ever check out the wip on apollo forums!
The Last Great Swordsmen Wip here http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=124414&b=19
Blobby 101
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Posted: 8th May 2008 09:04
the theme will probably be Retro. so retro remakes, Retro Re-writes, and new games done in a retro style. I'm not sure if you will be allowed to enter a previously started game though.

Your signature has been erased by a mod - 340 KB is a little big don't you think?
Matt Rock
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Posted: 11th May 2008 00:03
How might this affect the Text Adventure Competition? I'm planning on kicking it off in June and contacting Vink to have something in the July Newsletter if possible. TGC has provided great prizes in the past two competitions, and I'm wondering if this would affect the prizes, judging, or format of this year's competition.

BatVink
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Posted: 11th May 2008 23:20
Maybe you/TGC/we/insert name here should discuss it. The community competition idea is taking a little while because it's being set up methodically and carefully. Hopefully the first competition will be under way soon and your text compo could take advantage of some of the features of the system.
Insert Name Here
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Posted: 12th May 2008 20:08
Quote: "Maybe you/TGC/we/insert name here should discuss it."

Sure, I'll help discuss it!

\Juvenile sarcasm

Lee Bamber - Blame Beer
MikeS
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Posted: 14th May 2008 06:00
I as well must third my agreement with Dark Coder. Agreeably, games are more than just art, but games are also more than just programming. It's one final product that must be as polished as possible, and appeal to the end user once the game is finished. There should be no restrictions as to what can be done graphically, just as there would be no restrictions as to what algorithms one could use.

As for the whole retro idea, I like it overall. I might have mentioned this months ago on this thread, but regardless, I still like it. It has been done before, so it would be great if something new could be started. However, by basing games off of previous games, this will help a lot of users get started with their entries, and not have to worry so much about the semantics of design. Also, I believe if users pick a game they like and are passionate or even nostalgic about, it is more likely to be completed.



A book? I hate book. Book is stupid.
(Formerly Yellow)
Mike Inel
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Posted: 14th May 2008 07:28
I 4th Dark Coder...
Though, creativity is mostly what matters imo...
And besides, programming can be art too sometimes...
Flow and Echochrome can also be inspirations for simple, yet creative games...

Is it retro competition yet?
OwO
coolgames
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Posted: 19th May 2008 19:10
I believe I see what you are saying about the art. I guess I stated myself poorly.
I don't think that a game with totally horrible graphics should win just because it has really good programming. What I don't want is for a game with super high quality graphics and poor gameplay to beat a game with medium quality graphics and good gameplay.
Chris K
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Posted: 19th May 2008 19:43
Any progress re: the organising?

-= Out here in the fields, I fight for my meals =-
David R
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Posted: 23rd May 2008 00:47 Edited at: 23rd May 2008 00:50
You all seem to have completely missed my point.

With the theme being retro, there is nothing needing to be done gameplay wise - it's already there. There's no designing etc. needed, and although translating into a new game as a 1/1 copy is sometimes a challenge, there's no real skill in making a new game as an exact replica of another.

And since the gameplay will be identical to the original (with no skill/design required to create original or new gameplay) the competition just becomes a battle of visuals - because assuming whoever can make the game is able to copy effectively, the gameplay will be flawless if not identical. Leaving little criteria to judge upon, except visuals (if all the entires are flawless copies, then the gameplay will be fine, and visuals take over what is judged - i.e. it becomes the crux of the competition).

Take away the ability to just make exact replicas of games, and I think the competition will be far more interesting. Anyone can clone something, but it takes far more to make something fun and original. Besides, what do the countless retro competitions say about the TGC community as whole? That we have the inability to make anything that hasn't already been made?


09-f9-11-02-9d-74-e3-5b-d8-41-56-c5-63-56-88-c0
BiggAdd
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Posted: 23rd May 2008 09:10
Yeh, Anybody can replicate a game, but it will take a true mastermind to create something original out of an already well known genre.

As said before, The judges will be able to see if a game is brilliant, regardless of visuals.

I've already come up with a few ideas to turn a few games into something different. I suggest you do the same.

BatVink
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Posted: 24th May 2008 17:59
David R, If you look back over the thread, you'll see that the discussion is about an easy way to kick off the concept of Community Compos. Retro is an easy way. It's also not the end, just the beginning. If this is a success, then there will be plenty more themes to come.

Chris K
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Posted: 25th May 2008 02:49
Quote: "I'm working on the site at the moment which should hopefully be up in the next few days"


How's it going?
Been almost three weeks...

-= Out here in the fields, I fight for my meals =-
Bizar Guy
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Posted: 28th May 2008 01:39
And what exactly is the compo so far? Is it certainly going to be retro remakes? Will it include new games in a retro style? And will there be rules to making the games in sort of style we choose or will we have to modernize the games? How specific are the rules going to be?

Mike Inel
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Posted: 7th Jun 2008 16:51
Any news?

Chenak
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Posted: 9th Jun 2008 17:44
I imagine they don't want to set a date until everything is ready, don't want anyone to get head start now do we
Dared1111
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Posted: 10th Jun 2008 21:51
Why doesnt someone just post details and if 5 people agree let competition start. It's a rule of marketing that it would be a crime to stop the fanbase doing that...


Where can I get the codes. I know how to build it with codes. GET IT. I HOPE U UNDERSTAND. DUHH
MSon
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Posted: 11th Jun 2008 18:39 Edited at: 11th Jun 2008 18:53
I was going to go with my Metal Slug Game, but not worked on it for a while, i may start somethink new and see what i can do

This has proberley been answered already, but whens the closing date?

Edit: Is WipeOut Retro enouth?

Everyone Be Cool, You, Be Cool.
Bizar Guy
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Posted: 12th Jun 2008 02:06
Quote: "I imagine they don't want to set a date until everything is ready, don't want anyone to get head start now do we "

You might be on to something.

Chris K
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Posted: 6th Jul 2008 19:15
*sigh*

Is this ever going to happen?

-= Out here in the fields, I fight for my meals =-
Mr Tank
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Posted: 8th Jul 2008 04:06
A retro remake /reimagining thing would suit me.

I'd like if you were allowed to recycle your old code and stuff. The competition would be judged taking into account what you did before- ie you'd get more credit if you do something from scratch. The brief should be to pay homage to and incorporate aspects of gameplay/aesthetics/whatever and the essence of the original, but at the same time bring something new to the game. Better graphics for instance.

I'd like to take the engine of my spaceship game and turn it into something like Seek and Destroy for the Amiga. Might do this anyway, but a deadline might make me actually finish something for once!

SUPER BADASS SPACESHIP X: WEBSITE
FORUM TOPIC
Bizar Guy
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Posted: 14th Jul 2008 06:28
Quote: "Is this ever going to happen?"

yes... six months from now.

Now who knows if/where that quote came from?

AndrewT
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Posted: 30th Jul 2008 18:53
A Google search of "six months from now" brought me to a weight loss site.

90% of statistics are completely inaccurate.
Sid Sinister
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Posted: 31st Jul 2008 09:10
If this thread is falling through, and no one's doing anything, why is this still a sticky?

"If I have seen a little further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants" - Isaac Newton
-Computer Animation Major @Baker.edu-
Bizar Guy
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Posted: 31st Jul 2008 15:40 Edited at: 31st Jul 2008 15:42
Well, at least it look it looks like I'll be free for the compo, whenever it happens to be.

Edit: the quote was from an early spongebob episode. I'd just seen it on youtube for some reason that I've forgotten.

Kentaree
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Posted: 18th Aug 2008 18:24
The community compos are still planned, but we've been asked to delay them for a while because of the PhysX compo. Sorry I didn't reply sooner, been my first visit here in quite a while...

Bizar Guy
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Posted: 21st Aug 2008 15:00
k, thanks.

Chris K
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Posted: 25th Nov 2008 23:14
Any time soon...?

Cheers.

-= Out here in the fields, I fight for my meals =-
Kentaree
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Posted: 28th Nov 2008 14:18
Sorry for not having any updates on this. I've been ridiculously busy both inside and outside of work, and haven't even thought about this in a while. I hope to have more spare time soon, or if someone else would like to take my position (if Daniel agrees of course) and take charge of the site we could hopefully arrange that.

Chris K
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Posted: 1st Dec 2008 19:46
No worries, I was just thinking that Christmas holidays are a good time to be tinkering away with some code in front of a log fire...

It's hard to do a competition when people have jobs and school etc.

-= Out here in the fields, I fight for my meals =-
flashing snall
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2008 03:59
Quote: "
Quote: "Is this ever going to happen?"
yes... six months from now."

I cry.


This is my WIP, not even ready for a WIP thread yet though.http://smallgroupproductions.com/
Chris K
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2008 12:52
Yeah, come on TGC guys!

Loads of people will be getting DBPro or some other product for Christmas, a compo is a great way to whip the community into shape and start making some games!

-= Out here in the fields, I fight for my meals =-
Blobby 101
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Posted: 24th Dec 2008 10:34
Quote: "or if someone else would like to take my position (if Daniel agrees of course) and take charge of the site we could hopefully arrange that."

I'd do that, If you and Daniel agree that is. I can get a site up and running fairly quickly so hopefully we can get these compos going.

flashing snall
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Posted: 1st Jan 2009 02:27
"... uh, hello. I am Daniel. I agree, you should go on and have a fun contest, and an awesome happy life. G'day!"

Oh look at that! Blobby 101 is in charge now!

*wink*wink*


This is my WIP, not even ready for a WIP thread yet though.http://smallgroupproductions.com/
enthusiast
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Posted: 2nd Jan 2009 22:08
Hello everyone, I've reviewed the thread, and here are my thoughts for the competition.

First a recap. Most of the people here agrees with the retro games theme, with “retro games ” being defined as games which came out on or before December 10, 1993. This should give us a wide variety of games in many different systems and genres to choose from. The judges so far are Kentaree, Batvink and Mnemonix.

Apparently, there will be two types of games that may be submitted. One is “retro remakes” (by Scraggle's definition) and the other is anything goes, but in “retro style”.

Now, I know what a retro remake is, but I only have a vague idea of what “retro style” is. My guess is giving a game certain game dynamics that were predominant during the retro games era. So for example, if one would make a space shooter as an entry in ”retro style”, instead of giving it chase or first person camera like modern ones use, they'll use, say; a side view or top view, like r-type or asteroids respectively, perhaps it will have a “high scores” list as well. Did I guess right?

Anyway, I've also thought of a system to judge the entries with. Well, actually it's more of a system for rewarding winners, but it's related to judging. Here's my suggestion;.

I'm thinking something like the last Physx competition. There will be 2 or more categories each with its own 1st, 2nd and 3rd prizes, but instead of Physx features, it will be game aspects, like for example; the usual gameplay, audio, graphics, and polish/presentation aspects . The difference between this and the Physx competition is that an entry is not entered to just one category, but will be judged on all categories simultaneously. So say for example, an entry has great graphics, but not that great on the other aspects, it could win 1st prize on the graphics category, but only 3rd place or none on the other categories. On the other hand if an entry is great on all aspects, then it could win the 1st prize on all categories. So it allows a contestant to be rewarded on his or her particular strength, and at the same time, encouraging contestants to put effort on the other categories as well.

By the way, we can also think of our own categories, not just the usual ones.

However, the above idea does have some problems, for example; since the prizes will be divided among the various categories, it will require a lot more prizes or alternatively, the prizes might be smaller than the ones on a competition which is less dispersed, like on a contest where there is only one big prize. It's also a bit complex.

Oh, and speaking of prizes, what would you guys nominate as prizes?

Also, if I remember correctly, the previous retro competition lasted around 3 months, I think. That should be enough time, what do you guys think?

About the competition website, in the event that there is too much difficulty with it, perhaps we could just settle for a forum for now, with a sticky thread with the competition's details (maybe with a banner too!), and another sticky for questions and concerns. Contestants may also make their own thread there if they want to showcase their work in progress.

New System! Yay!: Intel e8200, EVGA GTX 260, Asus P5K SE/EPU, Seagate 7200.11 500 GB 32mb, 2GB Transcend 800 mhz, Acbel 610w, Amadas 19" crt, Edifier m1550 speakers, 384Kbps wireless broadband
Dared1111
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Posted: 9th Jan 2009 21:34
I agree to the former post.

Lets start sometime.

Bizar Guy
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Posted: 16th Jan 2009 01:36
Though it doesn't look like I'll have time to enter anymore, I am pretty disappointed. TGC compos were like the highlight of my programming year. People actually finished games, and people who saw them were inspired to join the forum and post their own work.

At least I was.

Blobby 101
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Posted: 16th Jan 2009 10:17
ok - i'm gonna start up a competition. It's not officially this TGC supported compo but i think we've sat around long enough waiting for this thing to get started. I'm thinking, keeping to this same Retro themed idea. I've started on a full rules thing and i'm hoping to start it up around the 1st of Feb.
So, who here thinks they would be able to join?

NaGaCreMo:
enthusiast
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Posted: 16th Jan 2009 19:55
Quote: "ok - i'm gonna start up a competition. It's not officially this TGC supported compo but i think we've sat around long enough waiting for this thing to get started. I'm thinking, keeping to this same Retro themed idea. I've started on a full rules thing and i'm hoping to start it up around the 1st of Feb.
So, who here thinks they would be able to join?"


Wow, cool dude! I will most probably be able to join a contest, though it would be nice to have TGC backing. Anyway though, just tell us the mechanics you have in mind.

New System! Yay!: Intel e8200, EVGA GTX 260, Asus P5K SE/EPU, Seagate 7200.11 500 GB 32mb, 2GB Transcend 800 mhz, Acbel 610w, Amadas 19" crt, Edifier m1550 speakers, 384Kbps wireless broadband
AndrewT
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Posted: 17th Jan 2009 02:51
I'm up for it, and Feb 1 is the perfect time because it's right after NaGaCreMo ends.

BMacZero
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Posted: 17th Jan 2009 03:31
Quote: "I'm up for it, and Feb 1 is the perfect time because it's right after NaGaCreMo ends."

Yeah, huh . Unfortunately, my NaGaCreMo game is really going to be long term. So, count me out .

AndrewT
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Posted: 17th Jan 2009 03:47
Quote: "Yeah, huh . Unfortunately, my NaGaCreMo game is really going to be long term. So, count me out ."


Ehh, don't worry, you're making a lot more progress than me. I'm still working on the GUI for my level editor for the engine of my game.

Mike Inel
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Posted: 18th Jan 2009 03:19
I'm in, i think...
DWIV's making me think twice, heheh...

Blobby 101
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Posted: 18th Jan 2009 23:10
ok guys, i've got a site up. www.TGCcommunitycompos.sitesled.com
The rules and all that are under the "Current" page.
Anyone want to be a judge?

NaGaCreMo:
Jammy
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Posted: 20th Jan 2009 02:57 Edited at: 20th Jan 2009 03:17
Well done in taking the initiative in pulling this thread forward. I have always been an advocate for TGC comps. I am still deciding whether to put my name forward as a judge, as I love entering.

Here are a few points you should consider.

1 Set a file limit size for zipped entries. – If you get 100 entries at 100GB each you could have some problems.

2 All entries should include source files – so others can learn from them.

3 It is good you have not promised any prizes yet. Any prizes should be personally secured before they are announced – TGC have been stung by seemingly reliable sources before.

4 All work including media should be the authors or they should have written permission to use it. You don’t want to get into copyright problems.

5 Try and get official Support – TGC are very reasonable people and I am sure they like to have their products promoted, but, they also need to protect their good reputation and their customers.

6 It might be worth limiting entries the TGC products you can actually compile yourself. It is the only way you can check to be sure they are made by those products.

Anyway Good Luck and don’t let me put you off. I really do hope it works out and if you prove to do a good job,I hope TGC would lend their support. I will at least enter and may put my name forward as a Judge if needed.

-edit-

Might be worth contacting Steve Vink aka BatVink to get it in feb. newsletter and he may be able to give you some pointers to stay on TGC good side. Try and Email - [email protected]

RanQor
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Posted: 20th Jan 2009 21:25
I'm interested, but the website above isn't working for me.
Blobby 101
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Posted: 20th Jan 2009 21:43
@Jammy - Thanks for your support, i'm going to contact Steve about it and i'm sending off an email to TGC about prizes.

@RanQor - Hmm... odd. I'm really not sure what would cause that. Try again (maybe in a different browser?) and if it still doesn't work, post back, and i'll post the full contents of that current compos page for you.

NaGaCreMo:

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