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Geek Culture / TGC Supported Community Competitions

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enthusiast
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Posted: 21st Jan 2009 06:54 Edited at: 21st Jan 2009 06:56
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You're doing such a good job blobby 101!

When you e-mail TGC, perhaps you can have them arrange some place to upload the entries as well.

New System! Yay!: Intel e8200, EVGA GTX 260, Asus P5K SE/EPU, Seagate 7200.11 500 GB 32mb, 2GB Transcend 800 mhz, Acbel 610w, Amadas 19" crt, Edifier m1550 speakers, 384Kbps wireless broadband
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flashing snall
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Posted: 22nd Jan 2009 04:05 Edited at: 27th Jan 2009 21:38
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nice blobby101, I like the style of that site, simple and clean. I would really love to see these get underway, although, the chances of me actually entering code is so slim that its not even funny. But thats okay! on the rare occasion I have work to be proud of, it would be great if it had a purpose.

PGDO. it consumes my every waking moment, that is not already being eaten by work / school / sleeping
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Blobby 101
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Posted: 28th Jan 2009 19:09
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ok - i found out that me email to TGC didn't send properly (and i realised this after the newsletter deadline unfortunatly) so i'm delaying it slightly to the 15th of Feburary, I should be able to have some prizes by then to motivated people to enter.
So, just 18 days left until the start of the competition.

NaGaCreMo:
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flashing snall
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Posted: 29th Jan 2009 21:21
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oh yippy. I think a cool feature for that site would be to make an account, or some how tap into the TGC accounts, and then have a score board on each one. Listed on the score board would be
-how many games youve entered
-the games score
-if it won / what place it came in
-how much money in prizes youve earned

I think that would add some spice to everything.

PGDO. it consumes my every waking moment, that is not already being eaten by work / school / sleeping
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Blobby 101
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Posted: 3rd Feb 2009 17:30 Edited at: 3rd Feb 2009 17:30
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my competition will be going ahead as planned on the 15th but TGC has said that they want to get these official competitions going and Rick has asked Daniel to do it. Because of that my competition(s) aren't supported by TGC and for that reason, unfortunately, they won't have a TGC sponsored prize. So, I will start my own thread for it, and attempt to secure a prize from another source.
So, discussion of my competition(s) should move to the new thread when I create it.

NaGaCreMo:
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Daniel TGC
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Posted: 3rd Feb 2009 18:40
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Hi guys. Sorry it's been so long since I've posted about this. Sorry you didn't get a prize from us blobby 101, it's just bad timing as we where about to start getting the ball running on offical TGC communty competitions ourselves.

You will all note that we've setup a new board under showcase now with community competitions listed.

We will announce the first theme shortly.

However I can reveal that the first competition will be for DarkBASIC and DarkBASIC Professional.
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dark coder
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Posted: 3rd Feb 2009 19:33
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Quote: "However I can reveal that the first competition will be for DarkBASIC and DarkBASIC Professional."


What? Why not GDK too? As great as DBPro is I'd much rather use GDK, the excuse for GDK not being valid for the last compo was that DarkPhysics wasn't ready for GDK, I can understand that as it was a physics comp after all, but that's hardly a valid excuse now .

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Chris K
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Posted: 3rd Feb 2009 19:46
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@ dark coder

I guess part of the reason they are willing to give away prizes is because they hope new customers will come in (this is actually how I found DB - from the Alienware compo).

Dark GDK is completely free, so not such a good investment.

Maybe they can make a Dark GDK section with smaller prizes.

-= Out here in the fields, I fight for my meals =-
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Blobby 101
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Posted: 3rd Feb 2009 19:49
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@Daniel, no problem so, do you know when this competition will start/end? So that i can make sure my competition doesn't clash with it, don't want to take entrants away from each other do we

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flashing snall
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Posted: 3rd Feb 2009 20:27
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Quote: "You will all note that we've setup a new board under showcase now with community competitions listed."

You have? I am failing to find it

PGDO. it consumes my every waking moment, that is not already being eaten by work / school / sleeping
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Blobby 101
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Posted: 3rd Feb 2009 20:38
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right here flashing snall. they just havn't added it to the drop down yet.

NaGaCreMo:
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dark coder
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Posted: 3rd Feb 2009 23:37
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Quote: "I guess part of the reason they are willing to give away prizes is because they hope new customers will come in (this is actually how I found DB - from the Alienware compo)."


Well that would suck if it's the main reason, they can always not mention GDK for GDK entries and just plaster the pages with DBPro ads or something. Plus although GDK is free, many of the plug-ins for it(DarkPhysics, EZ Rotate, EnAn etc) aren't, so they still get some money, and you still have to pay for the commercial licence so it doesn't seem like such a good reason to exclude it from these compos. Oh and I've written an awesome library for GDK that's many thousands of lines and I can't be bothered to re-write it for DBPro(plus I couldn't as it'd be 50x slower in DBPro) thus allowing GDK would be awesome for everyone .

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mr Handy
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Posted: 7th Feb 2009 00:26
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You can make not-a-prize for GDK competition. That means you can win discount to DBP bundle or other shop-bonus. What do you say?

A door is a door is a door. Even a swinging one. =0
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Jeku
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Posted: 7th Feb 2009 04:02
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Yes I agree it's silly not to allow GDK and GDK.NET apps in the comps


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dark coder
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Posted: 7th Feb 2009 04:16
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Quote: "You can make not-a-prize for GDK competition. That means you can win discount to DBP bundle or other shop-bonus. What do you say?"


You make it sound like GDK users aspire to own DBPro due to not being able to afford it. I don't see why GDK users must be separated from the rest of the flock anyway, the core library we use is the same as DBPro after all(actually it's a few patches behind) and there aren't many of us. So if you thought the turnout for previous DBPro compos was bad then wait 'till you see a GDK only one!

The only not really excuse I can imagine people coming up with is the library support C++/C# etc has natively compared to DBPro. But this isn't really a valid point as you yourself can load the DLLs for this and wrap it, or make your own plug-in, thus basically doing the same as what we would be doing. Plus many people have the mindset that using C++ means it takes a million lines to create anything that could be done in a single DBPro line , so surely we'd be at a complete disadvantage.

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mr Handy
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Posted: 7th Feb 2009 13:34
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oh well...bot for me DBP rocks

A door is a door is a door. Even a swinging one. =0
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Daniel TGC
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Posted: 8th Feb 2009 23:37 Edited at: 8th Feb 2009 23:39
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Quote: "@Daniel, no problem so, do you know when this competition will start/end? So that i can make sure my competition doesn't clash with it, don't want to take entrants away from each other do we "


I hope to get the first competition started in the next week or two, I've sorted out the prizes with Rick Vanner, and the theme is set. The competition duration will be about six weeks. I'm basically hashing out rules, and upload details at the moment.

One thing I'm happy to announce, is that any person who submits an entry into this competition, reguardless of weather they win or not, will receive 250 TGC Store points. So just for entering that's as many as 10 free models, or free music, sounds etc, that can of course enhance anyone's game or project.

Reguarding the DarkGDK issue, the reason DarkGDK wasn't mentioned is frankly because I hadn't even thought of it. And while I've not made a decision on it yet, my current way of thinking leans towards not allowing it because of offers quite an unfair advantage over DarkBASIC and DarkBASIC Professional users in some ways because it's alot more flexible. I'm not saying no, I'll discuss it with a few people and announce it at the time.

Rest assured though, if DarkGDK doesn't make it into this one, your work won't go to waste Darkcoder, I'm sure. Providing nothing catastrophic goes wrong this time around. That we will hold DarkGDK competitions.

But as I say, no decision has been made. I need to think about it, and talk to a few people.
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flashing snall
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Posted: 9th Feb 2009 00:58
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whoo 250 store points!
I love when contests give out stuff just for entering, it provides a lot of incentive.

PGDO. it consumes my every waking moment, that is not already being eaten by work / school / sleeping
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DarkBasic Pro Guy
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Posted: 9th Feb 2009 06:28
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If you give 250 points to every entrant though, people would not even try but submit something crappy just for the 250 store points. Maybe you should set some rules as to what it should be to qualify, (a fancy hello world shouldn't get store points for a racing game themed competition)


DBRemake: Space Invaders
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Dragon Knight
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Posted: 9th Feb 2009 06:49
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:o atlas!!!! Ah i grow restless waiting for these competitions, as I'm usually too late to enter or too early then forget about em just as they start .

Is there an automated notice that i can sign up for just to e-mail me when a competition is starting/one day before it begins, now that would be awesome.


http://www.hybridwolves.co.uk
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dark coder
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Posted: 9th Feb 2009 08:47
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Quote: "my current way of thinking leans towards not allowing it because of offers quite an unfair advantage over DarkBASIC and DarkBASIC Professional users in some ways because it's alot more flexible."


Boo. I don't agree with it giving an unfair advantage, pretty much anything done using GDK can be done in DBPro either natively or with DLL calls(which I guess is still native) or by writing a plugin. As long as GDK entries actually use GDK for the rendering, sound, music etc then there should be no instance where a GDK entry can do something a DBPro one is incapable of, potentially faster than anything possible in DBPro yes, but such is life. Plus GDK and MSVC++ are both free so if someone's project really needs the extra speed then other than lacking time there's not much of an excuse to not learn it; I did, with nothing but free sources.

I really hope GDK entries aren't separated into their own category as I'll then be forced to make yet another game in DBPro (if you hadn't noticed I always enter the largest/hardest category and that sure won't be any GDK only category).

So in summary: good coders make good games, good languages don't make good games but they allow good coders to make them.

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Jeku
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Posted: 9th Feb 2009 09:16
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Agreed-- I still think it's silly to disallow GDK just because there's a speed advantage. That's one of the major points in going to C++ in the first place, and what's the big deal? GDK is a TGC product too.

Quote: "So in summary: good coders make good games, good languages don't make good games but they allow good coders to make them."


Agreed.


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Chris K
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Posted: 9th Feb 2009 11:07
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Can't wait for this now

-= Out here in the fields, I fight for my meals =-
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Kohaku
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Posted: 9th Feb 2009 13:29
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I can't wait to find out what the compo will be about. I may even join in!

With regard to the GDK issue; I'd be using DBP personally, but I agree that the GDK should be allowed. As DC says; whatever you can do in GDK you can also do in DBP.



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James H
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Posted: 10th Feb 2009 06:36
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I get the impression that GDK users know a lot more about coding than the dbp/dbc users - I get that impression from what the better coders here have said about there preferences. I think it boils down to what the other restrictions are for the compo and how judgements are made. Assuming plugins won`t be allowed(not everyone has them), will calling dlls?
For arguments sake lets say the compo was to make your own foliage system, do you think GDK`ers like DC have an unfair advantage(take a look at his awsome foliage system versus anything written in pure dbp)? If speed of gdk is faster than dbp(same goes for dbp vs dbc)and the fastest techniques for either language were used, a lot more checks can take place in the gdk version, no? Don`t get me wrong I`m not slating anyone here I just think statements like "whatever you can do in GDK you can also do in DBP" can easily be changed to "whatever you can do in DBP you can also do in GDK" which would remove any doubts of fairness. Lets face it, people knowing that people of DC`s talent/level will enter will discourage some people as it is(not saying his skills are an unfair advantage - we all have the ability to learn), just that there is no need to rock the boat further - if your giving store points to entrants you want to attract folk to enter right? You could tell me theres no real difference between the languages till the cows come home, it doesn`t mean I`ll believe it, wether its true or not. If I think that, others could be thinking similar aswell(based on if it can happen it probably will, rather than my ego enables me to believe everyone thinks like me - before thats suggested).
Can it be said that all you can do in DBP you can also do in DBC?
When I last used it(years ago) that wouldn`t be true and I don`t know if thats still the case. If it isn`t the case then perhaps it would be better to restrict compo`s to individual languages unless sufficient restrictions can be put in place that ensure no unfairness - without any possibilty of doubt?
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dark coder
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Posted: 10th Feb 2009 09:39
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I don't think libraries or plugins should be disallowed, after all TGC do sell a lot(though I only own a few) and it'd be a bit of a slap in the face to people who have bought them if they can't use them in the community compos which are things that attract many people to make games(which the plugins are designed for! mostly). But the bigger issue is that there are no plugins in C++, you get libraries sure but if you disallow them then you can't really do much as GDK is a library, this includes windows.h, d3d9math.h etc, I often use STL for many things and I've even written my own GDK wrapper which is a static library. Disallowing these would make no sense as I could easily directly include and compile my library with my project but that'd just lead to a big mess and result in lots of pointless compilation.

Quote: "For arguments sake lets say the compo was to make your own foliage system, do you think GDK`ers like DC have an unfair advantage(take a look at his awsome foliage system versus anything written in pure dbp)?"


Absolutely, because my tree library(well it's not strictly a library) isn't code for any specific game and thus is reusable and wouldn't be counted as starting a project before the compo began. However, these are game compos so you'll never never see one where all you must do is create a foliage system. I could say the same about DBPro though, there have been many function libraries written for it by people and there's loads of code snippets made for it compared to GDK so you would have an advantage if the compo leaned in that direction, especially in the shader department as I've only seen a handful of shader demos made for GDK. Also there is that TreeParty plugin for DBpro so you're not completely at a loss with foliage, and you could always emulate what my one does.

Quote: "If speed of gdk is faster than dbp"


Just to be clear, GDK isn't faster than DBPro; C++ is faster than DBPro. The rendering, sound handling etc libraries in both GDK and DBPro are identical, it's only the core languages that differ.

Quote: "You could tell me theres no real difference between the languages till the cows come home, it doesn`t mean I`ll believe it, wether its true or not."


We're talking about the GDK library here mainly, assuming one doesn't simply make a splashscreen using GDK and loads up UE3 to do the rest then there is no difference between what can be done. But core language wise there's a monumental difference.

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James H
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Posted: 10th Feb 2009 16:42
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I can see that perhaps my views are tainted by the lack of understanding on my part of what GDK is. Bare this in mind, a lot of users will have been drawn into purchasing by the advertising without any prior knowledge to programming. Some of us have never stepped outside that ring, even after years of use, at best we may have some knowledge of other basic languages, but chances are that the said basic users also have no or little understanding of what GDK is. I have it installed(since it was made free), but have never got round to using it as I feel I don`t know basic well enough yet. My point is that there are a lot of users here won`t feel up to the challenge if they think there is a chance of an unfair advantage - even if they are wrong. The free points incentive suggests the need for more entrants, I just think attracting entrants with points on one hand and risking "scaring" entrants away on the other, kind of defeats the aim...I see your point though with regards to the fact that the compo isn`t likely ever to be to make a foliage system but a game, and game design skills coupled with coding skills is what TGC are looking for in a winner - or at least I think thats what your getting at? On the whole it sounds like GDK can be used, however I couldn`t be certain hence any doubts.
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dark coder
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Posted: 11th Feb 2009 02:16 Edited at: 11th Feb 2009 02:18
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Quote: "My point is that there are a lot of users here won`t feel up to the challenge if they think there is a chance of an unfair advantage"


I can see where you're coming from but this can be applied to anything. While C++ users do have a potential(ly large) edge in speed over DBPro if they know what they're doing, the same can be said for many aspects of DBPro. A user who understands a lot about shaders in DBPro will have a speed and graphical advantage over someone who doesn't assuming they know how to utilize them well. The exact same goes for the more complex vector and matrix math commands in DBPro(over standard movement and rotation commands), or memblock meshes/images, if they are good at creating 2D/3D art, sounds etc. All of these skills take lots of study and practice to be good at, and all give you some advantage once you learn or master them, GDK with C++ is no different and it's completely free to anyone so I don't see it as unfair.

Quote: "The free points incentive suggests the need for more entrants"


You can make this assertion however there are other more likely reasons, for example the TGC store wasn't available for DBPro/GDK users at the time of the last compo so you don't know if they needed more users. Maybe not many people from the DBPro/GDK camps use the store(I haven't, nor even heard it mentioned here) so giving points away for it will entice people to look at it/use it. In these large compos there are often 100+ entries, or at least people who said they were going to enter(WIP topics) and there usually aren't more than 10 prizes so a lot of people will have spent a few months for almost no return so this may make the pit slightly less bottomless?

Quote: "and game design skills coupled with coding skills is what TGC are looking for in a winner - or at least I think thats what your getting at?"


Well it is a game programming compo so I sure hope they're looking for those things! Of course they also judge media and other aspects.

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Jeku
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Posted: 11th Feb 2009 17:13
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Quote: "My point is that there are a lot of users here won`t feel up to the challenge if they think there is a chance of an unfair advantage"


You'd also have an "advantage" if you used Dark Shader, would you not? Or if you used an SFX pack. etc. etc.


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James H
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Posted: 11th Feb 2009 18:57
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True enough if plugins are to be allowed, which they should - guess I should trust more experienced, knowledgable people
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Daniel TGC
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Posted: 12th Feb 2009 13:25
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Quick update:

DarkGDK will be allowed.

Plugin's arn't an issue, they will be allowed too. We certainly won't restrict the use of model packs, and other content generators or enhancers.

But often plugin's and things don't make a real difference, it's only a six week competition so you won't be writing the next world of warcraft, command and conquer or Oblivion in that time. And the competition theme will reflect the time alotted.

As with all games, it's typically the most fun games that make it through!
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Chris K
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Posted: 12th Feb 2009 15:03
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Any chance of a solid start date?

-= Out here in the fields, I fight for my meals =-
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Monk
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Posted: 12th Feb 2009 18:08
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Hehe just read the whole thread and im glad that the competition sounds like its about to start. I wonder if ill have enough time to enter this comp, blobbys comp, do all my school work, and continue my personal project, and do the dbpro coding challenge, or does that sounds a bit ambitious...

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Jammy
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Good to see DarkGDK, Plugins, model packs, and other content generators or enhancers will all be able to be used. I would like to see what the community can put together with all that is available. Though I think we should have to declare which ones we have used and for what. That way others can see the advantages of whatever plugin.

6 weeks, though not long for polish and sparkle, should be long enough, as long as I can keep the concept simple.

Can’t wait for the start.

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Monk
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Thats a point, what happens if we want to try a game that requires a plugin that we dont have, would it have to be included with the project?

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flashing snall
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Posted: 12th Feb 2009 20:42
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I think you could run the .exe of the final build.

PGDO. it consumes my every waking moment, that is not already being eaten by work / school / sleeping
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Daniel TGC
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Posted: 13th Feb 2009 12:21
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The competition will start on the 27th of February, it will extend until the 10th of April. I will announce the rules on "The community competition" board we've setup. I will also announce the theme of the competition on that day. We decided to pick the 27th because it's just before the newsletter comes out, which will give it more coverage, so we can reach those who've not been monitoring the boards or this thread. It will also start on the day before the week end when most people are off, which should help everyone get started.

Good luck!
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Monk
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Posted: 13th Feb 2009 12:23 Edited at: 13th Feb 2009 12:24
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Yeah that would work...
2 days til blobbys =)

Damn, the 27th is the day im back at school, or somewhere that week i think. Hmm... Imn still gonna enter though. Im glad that this has a fixed date now

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Blobby 101
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Posted: 13th Feb 2009 17:32
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yay - now i have a date i can plan my dates better XD
@monk: no, i'm afraid not - if i go ahead with it on the 15th then mine and TGC's competitions would overlap and neither of us would get the full amount of entrants possible. now i know te dates of TGC's competitions, I would say mine will start around the 15th-20th of april, so that people will have some time to cool down from this competition before trying to enter another one XD

NaGaCreMo:
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flashing snall
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Posted: 13th Feb 2009 23:12
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aaaaaaaaaaaaw yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa. Lets bring the thunder gentlemen.

PGDO. it consumes my every waking moment, that is not already being eaten by work / school / sleeping
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Monk
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Posted: 13th Feb 2009 23:28
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Awwwww! I was looking forward to trying to do like 4 projects at once... =)
Nah its a good call, common sense prevails again. Good job all whove got these competitions (official and not so much) running again !

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RYD
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Posted: 16th Feb 2009 02:40
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can anyone please give me another website to download dark gdk because neither tgc website nor the visual basic website download link works

ARM YOURSELF WITH KNOLEGE
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BatVink
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Posted: 16th Feb 2009 09:50
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RYD, the download is working just fine (just tried it now on TGC's d/load), you must have a problem with your connection.

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Daniel TGC
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Posted: 16th Feb 2009 19:20
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Disable any download managers running, resetting internet explorer to default settings from Tools > Internet Options > Advanced Tab > Reset this should disable any plugins that might be causing an issue.

Spyware and adware cause cause download issues as well run scans or it.

If you are using a wifi connection move your laptop/ desktop closer to the router or exchange the wireless for an ethernet connection.

If all else fails you can also try an alternative browser such as google chrome or firefox.
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Serge Adjo
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Posted: 18th Feb 2009 10:40
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hi there, I'm looking for the community compet' board, it might be that one, yes ?

pascontent.
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Monk
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Location: Standing in the snow =D
Posted: 18th Feb 2009 11:18
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I think youve got a chance of being right there mate!

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Serge Adjo
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Posted: 18th Feb 2009 12:45
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ok, because I wasn't certain...

pascontent.
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Chris K
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Location: Lake Hylia
Posted: 18th Feb 2009 17:03
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Can you reveal what the prizes are going to be Daniel? Seeing as they are set already, might cause a bit more buzz if we know what we are competing for

-= Out here in the fields, I fight for my meals =-
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geecee3
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Location: edinburgh.scotland.
Posted: 19th Feb 2009 13:03
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I don't mind my media and stuff being shared "serge adjo", but i made a unique avatar for a reason. people know it's me, please find another.

thanks, Grant.

Ohd Chinese Ploverb say : Wise Eskimo, not eat yerrow snow.
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Serge Adjo
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Posted: 21st Feb 2009 14:44
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Quote: "I don't mind my media and stuff being shared "serge adjo", but i made a unique avatar for a reason. people know it's me, please find another.

thanks, Grant."

I'm sorry about that avatar prob. but I found a solution so its ok now

pascontent.
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