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DarkBASIC Discussion / Dark Noob Games HQ

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Irojo
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Posted: 25th Nov 2008 00:04
The line command will be for looks BN2. I made my post fairly confusing. The problem is not the looks, but the speed. If that clarifies it better.


Yes, a box or dot line drawing command would be nice. The problem is, how to make it faster?

I'm pretty decent at math, but I haven't come across anything that would present a simple solution. And what we need has to be simple, otherwise the program won't run any faster with our dot function then with using the line command.

I don't mind Ashingda.


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BN2 Productions
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Posted: 25th Nov 2008 01:28
It is obese's team te chnically. Lets let him approve the next manager. I would think that a box or dot line function would do the trick, would take some experimenting to see if it is faster or not (seem to remember this coming up in a challenge at some point, boxes I think were the faster of the 2)

As far as controlling them goes, I think a simple waypoint systems could work. Use 1 array for the waypoints and one for the targets like this:


Ever notice how in Microsoft word, the word "microsoft" is auto corrected to be "Microsoft" but "macintosh" just gets the dumb red underline?
Ashingda 27
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Posted: 25th Nov 2008 02:50
I made a DrawLine Function, I can only use simple math so it's not very complex maybe obese can help point me in the right direction.

Anyways the Function draws the line using Box command and you can size up the thickness of the line as well.

This test uses the mouse and the arrow keys.

BN2 Productions
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Posted: 25th Nov 2008 04:43
Had an interesting idea for the team.

Rather than just doing project after project, perhaps we should do project, personal project, project etc. The personal project would be similar to the DBC challenge, except more open, for instance, the team manager from the last project just says "Show me what you can do in 2 weeks". Then they critique the individual code both giving positive feedback and pointing out errors and things that could have been done better.

Just an idea, what do you guys think?

Ever notice how in Microsoft word, the word "microsoft" is auto corrected to be "Microsoft" but "macintosh" just gets the dumb red underline?
Ashingda 27
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Posted: 25th Nov 2008 05:31
Should be fun an great for learning. Awsome idea!
Irojo
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Posted: 25th Nov 2008 05:35
I think that would be a nice break in between projects.

Ashingda-

Nice function. However, I couldn't find how to make it so the line was being drawn when it was in use.

Everyone-

I just remember (sad it took me so long) a basic math skill I seem to have forgotten.

*Dramatic Pause*




I'll se what I can do with that. I think I might be able to make it simple, as it will only be some addition, I think it will run faster then line. Crossing my fingers,

-Irojo


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BN2 Productions
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Posted: 25th Nov 2008 05:53
Lol irojo.

Don't forget this one too:

(y-y1)=m(x-x1)

making

y=mx-m(x1)+y1

The bonus to this: you don't need a y intercept (which would add a few lines of code).

Well, it seems like response is positive so far so, Show me what you guys can do on your own in 1.5 weeks. That makes the deadline Dec. 5th. And by your own, I just mean as an individual, you can still ask for help here. Quirkyjim, go ahead and jump in on this too so that we can see where you are, don't worry if you can't do something other's can, thats the point of this team: to learn.

Ever notice how in Microsoft word, the word "microsoft" is auto corrected to be "Microsoft" but "macintosh" just gets the dumb red underline?
Irojo
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Posted: 25th Nov 2008 06:41 Edited at: 25th Nov 2008 06:42
I want to make a tower defense on my own still, if that's allowed.

Obviously you have gotten into more advanced math than I BN2.

I can't forget what I don't know.

But that looks alot like
y=mx+b
Where m=(y1-y2)/(x1-x2)

I'm so making a function out of this. Expect one soon. I plan to leave my mark on Dark Basic Classic coding forever, by creating a function that is Faster, Better, Smarter, than the line command.

Can it be done?

One man.
One day.
One math concept actually used.

...

Er...


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BN2 Productions
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Posted: 25th Nov 2008 08:02
Not too much more advanced, at least as far as this goes. Basically,

y=mx+b which is the slope-y intercept form of a line

(y-y1)=m(x-x1) is the point slope form, where you plug in the point for y1 and x1

Distribute the m and you get
y-y1=mx-mx1

Add y1 to both sidea

y=m*x-m*x1+y1

The benefit here is not needing to calculate a y intercept (which, by comparison to y=mx+b we see is equal to -m*x1+y1)

The only thing to make sure of is an undefined slope, making x2-x1 0 and resulting in a divide by 0 error.

Making a tower defence one is fine, as long as you get it done in time.

Ever notice how in Microsoft word, the word "microsoft" is auto corrected to be "Microsoft" but "macintosh" just gets the dumb red underline?
Quirkyjim
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Posted: 25th Nov 2008 13:42
Okay, I know this stuff. I just had that stuff last year in school, so if you need help in that area, gie me a call. Also, did anyone like MY demo?

~QJ
Irojo
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Posted: 25th Nov 2008 17:17
So far with the line calculations, all I've learned is the text book math is easier.

:S


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BN2 Productions
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Posted: 25th Nov 2008 17:19
Not bad, but what is the path array for quirkyjim? It doesn't seem to be used at all (or am I just missing it) except here:



Ever notice how in Microsoft word, the word "microsoft" is auto corrected to be "Microsoft" but "macintosh" just gets the dumb red underline?
Quirkyjim
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Posted: 25th Nov 2008 21:45
I just made it to be added onto later.

~QJ
BN2 Productions
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Posted: 25th Nov 2008 21:47
Ahhh ok

Ever notice how in Microsoft word, the word "microsoft" is auto corrected to be "Microsoft" but "macintosh" just gets the dumb red underline?
Quirkyjim
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Posted: 25th Nov 2008 21:57
New demo that lases only one enemy with an if...else command

I'm starting work to lase closest enemy!

~QJ
Quirkyjim
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Posted: 25th Nov 2008 22:09 Edited at: 25th Nov 2008 22:10
I'm working on lasing the closest enemy and this is what I have, but it's not working. Does anybody know what's going on?


~QJ
BN2 Productions
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Posted: 25th Nov 2008 22:21
Should it have a line connected to the green box? If so, I did notice your distance formula was wrong.

D=sqrt((x2-x1)^2+(y2-y1)^2)

as opposed to your

d=sqrt((x2-x1)(X2-y1))

Ever notice how in Microsoft word, the word "microsoft" is auto corrected to be "Microsoft" but "macintosh" just gets the dumb red underline?
Quirkyjim
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Posted: 25th Nov 2008 22:24
ah yes, srry, I will fix now! Thank you!

~QJ
Quirkyjim
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Posted: 25th Nov 2008 22:26
I fixed and changed to

But it's still not working!

~QJ
BN2 Productions
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Posted: 25th Nov 2008 22:27
NP, btw, you caught that we are pausing the next project, right? The format from now on will be project, personal project, project, personal project...

Right now we are in the personal project. The idea is that you have about a week and a half weeks (deadline is dec. 5th) to do whatever you want to show your skill. It can be anything, it is just a way to show off. From that the next project manager will be able to gauge your skill to know what kind of tasks to assign you during the project.

Ever notice how in Microsoft word, the word "microsoft" is auto corrected to be "Microsoft" but "macintosh" just gets the dumb red underline?
Quirkyjim
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Posted: 25th Nov 2008 22:31
ah, okay. I see. What should I do..hmm...

~QJ
BN2 Productions
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Posted: 26th Nov 2008 00:09
If you can't think of anything, there is always Pong!

Ever notice how in Microsoft word, the word "microsoft" is auto corrected to be "Microsoft" but "macintosh" just gets the dumb red underline?
Libervurto
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Posted: 26th Nov 2008 00:25
I seem to have started a trend for storing the "world" in an array like some sort of chess board. This is a good method and allows you to do things like cellular autonomy - where you compare cells (fields in the array) to their neighbours to get cool effects - in fact it's useful for any project where any space in the world can change state (like furious pickaxe), but the method is quite slow and a grid-world larger than around 64x64 is going to be sluggish.
Memblocks could be used to speed it up greatly but if your game has only a few "moving parts" it's best to treat them as separate entities.
So a grid-world is very cool but it's also restrictive.

@BN2 + Irojo
what do m and b stand for in your formulas?
and why do you have x1 and y1?

@Ashingda
Box can be used to draw lines, but only horizontal or vertical.
Unless your saying that box is faster at drawing a single pixel than dot, which would be very interesting.
Yes box does have that nice scalability that I've used in my cellular programs, so a function that used box to draw lines would be great.

I had a go at a line function a while ago. It was very sluggish and badly written but it was at least accurate (more accurate than line). Here's a link http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=114053&b=6
but it's not very good, well at least you get to see where I was a year ago

There is one useful thing and that's the rounding function, you'll probably need it for the line function so here's a better version...


A small program that works is better than a large one that doesn't.

DBC Challenge Rank: Rookie
Ashingda 27
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Posted: 26th Nov 2008 00:26
So this is sorta like the same purpose as the clock challenge earlier on this thread right?
Libervurto
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Posted: 26th Nov 2008 00:36 Edited at: 26th Nov 2008 00:38
@BN2
I think personal challenges are a good idea, it helps us get an idea of what the capabilities are of everyone in the team, then we can assign suitable tasks in projects.

Quote: "So this is sorta like the same purpose as the clock challenge earlier on this thread right? "

I made up the clock challenge because I felt it covered most of the basics that would be required to work on a game project, there will of course be small tasks for those who aren't quite up to it yet, but if anyone wants to be a main coder on a project they should be able to make an analogue clock.

The personal challenges that BN2 suggested are more open to your interpretation and so give us a better idea of what you're really capable of, above and beyond clocks .

[edit]
Does anyone know how to make my sig picture link to the DBC Challenge page?

A small program that works is better than a large one that doesn't.

DBC Challenge Rank: Rookie
Irojo
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Posted: 26th Nov 2008 01:07
Quote: "what do m and b stand for in your formulas?
and why do you have x1 and y1?"


x1 and y1 are the original locations. For example, when using the line command, you use the starting x and y, and the ending x and y:

line x1,y1,x2,y2


m stands for rise over run. It's for the Y and x increase
m=

y1-y2
______
x1-x2

OR

y2-y1
______
x2-x1


--
I'm going to try my hand at making Tetris. Anybody else who wants to do so is more than welcome too.


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Libervurto
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Posted: 26th Nov 2008 01:26
Had a go at the clock challenge myself it's actually pretty tough!
here's my version for all you cheaters out there


A small program that works is better than a large one that doesn't.

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Irojo
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Posted: 26th Nov 2008 01:49
How could that be hard for you, King of sin...and cos.


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Ashingda 27
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Posted: 26th Nov 2008 03:08
Another question, can we attach media that we create ourselves like music and images?
Libervurto
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Posted: 26th Nov 2008 03:20
@Ashingda
Yes you can

@Irojo
well you have to break up the time string, adjust the values, then times them by different factors of 360 to get them going round the circle and at the right point. A better test than I thought

A small program that works is better than a large one that doesn't.

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Irojo
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Posted: 26th Nov 2008 03:29 Edited at: 26th Nov 2008 06:02
Quote: "A better test than I thought "


One that noobs would find success difficult with.

--

My Tetris game supports 1 blocks! It's actually pretty cool. I'm happy with it. Next up, I'm putting in the block clumps. Like
[][]
[][]
-----
[]
[]
[][]
-----
etc.

It vil ve grand!

[EDIT]

This Tetris game is the second I made. It was to learn the concept of how to make a Tetris game. ( no tutorial though)
I am going to recreate this now I understand how to do one block, however it will support the differnt block types. I plan on a faster FPS than the current one. Please give me some input on this program:



And, looking at all the other threads on tetris, I don't understand why pros at programming (TDK / LBFN) think Tetris is harder than, say breakout.

I think this is a fairly simple program. There's alot going on during the programming (connected Arrays for example) but it's not as complicated as they lead to believe.


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Quirkyjim
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Posted: 26th Nov 2008 21:45
LEVEL 37 ON BLOON 2!!!
Yes!

~QJ
Irojo
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Posted: 26th Nov 2008 22:09
Nice.

Check out my Tetris please.

Some input would be nice.

I'm only pointing it out because it was an edit.


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Quirkyjim
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Posted: 26th Nov 2008 22:25 Edited at: 26th Nov 2008 22:33
Okay, I'm still working on a simple tower defense of my own, and this is how it's going. However, if you notice, it keeps repeating the first for...next loop. How would I fix that: I do not know what's going on.

P.S. I do know that the laser doesn't work, I'm working on the path currently
P.P.S. There is media with it, I'm attaching it.

@Irojo
Kool tetris so far, but I'd like to say a few things.

1)The controls are a little bit extreme, it's such high sensitivity that it's hard to specifically plant the block.

2)Get workin on those blocks!

~QJ

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Ashingda 27
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Posted: 26th Nov 2008 22:43 Edited at: 27th Nov 2008 04:53
@Irojo
nice work, the controls worked great for me.

When the block hits the bottom it can still be moved left/right for quite some time you might wana reduce that.

Overall it looks promising keep it up.

[edit]

My personal project is a strategy game based off of Dragon Force for the Sega Saturn. Warning the quality of my version will be rather low LOL
BN2 Productions
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Posted: 27th Nov 2008 20:52
Good work so far Irojo, though there were a few things I thought I should bring up:

1. Comments. Or rather lack of comments. I wanted to review the code itself, but didn't know what anything did. It would be nice even to have a brief block of comments at the beginning explaining the theory of the program.

2. Modularity. Most of your program is hard coded in. It would be a good idea to put the main loop into its own subroutine, so that if you decide to re-write it, you can just go to a new subroutine without losing your code.

3. Separation. This helps keep it organized if you opt to use fewer comments. A simple empty line here and there can do wonders to make the code look a little neater.

4. Indentations. Make sure you indent ALL of your code, especially your subroutines. It makes it easier to know where it stops and starts just from looking.

5. Rotation. No matter how hard I tried, I couldn't manage to rotate the darn square. I pressed up a lot and it still looked exactly the same. Might want to fix that before you move on to shapes .

Other than that stuff, pretty good for a first start, looking forward to see where you go with it.

Quirkyjim, I will get to reviewing yours now.

@Ashingda
Interesting idea, but be careful not to get too ambitious. Remember, you only have a week to do it.

Ever notice how in Microsoft word, the word "microsoft" is auto corrected to be "Microsoft" but "macintosh" just gets the dumb red underline?
Quirkyjim
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Posted: 27th Nov 2008 21:53
Great!

~QJ
Irojo
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Posted: 27th Nov 2008 23:50
1-4

Input taken.

Expect more readable code in the future.

Thanks for the help.

5.

That's because there is no rotation.


@Ashingda

Thanks, and looking forward to see your project.


I download memory.
BN2 Productions
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Posted: 28th Nov 2008 06:16
Ok Quirkyjim here is yours (+/- in order that I noticed them)

1. Flashing. I am not exactly sure WHAT is causing but my suspicion is that it is because you are using LOAD BITMAP "...",0 which will force I screen refresh (I think) which messes everything up. A better way to do it would be at the beginning using LOAD IMAGE "...",IMAGE NUMBER then use PASTE IMAGE to put it on the screen.

2. Organization. This comes up a lot here, and it has been pretty much agreed on that while goto CAN be used (and at times has to be used) it generally should not be used. It makes the code much harder to read. Instead use GOSUB and break your code into subroutines, following this format:


3. General Structure. You don't have a REAL main loop. It looks like it is just a REALLY LONG for-next loop. This isn't the best thing to do for one reason: in a game, you don't know how many loops a player will go through. Therefore, it is better to use a While/EndWhile, Repeat/Until, or Do/Loop (which is another contested command, mostly since it doesn't have a built in exit condition). Also, at the beginning of the code you should load your graphics and initiate your arrays, then implement them in the code.

4. The Enemy doesn't travel farther than a small path. Before you move into the tower shooting it, you should at least make the enemy follow the path, just as a good practice. Build in what the computer does, then build around that.

5. Comments. Yes you used them, but they don't really tell much. Your labels are good, but it would be nice to have more revealing comments that explain WHAT and WHY it does what it does.

6. EXP() command. Honestly, I don't know what the command is for, but it ISN'T what you think it is. To prove it, run this line in a separate program: PRINT 1*EXP(1) . Instead, to square something, use the ^ symbol, so it could look like 2^2 for 2 squared, 2^3 for 2 cubed etc etc.

Ok, so here is my main comment here. You need to slow down. I don't think that tower defense would be a good idea for your project, but you know your abilities better than I do. You tried to jump straight into the tower shooting the enemy, and thus, you are working backwards. First you need to get the ai down (since that is what everything else is based on), then the tower firing, then the user placement of towers.

I don't mean to break you down here, programming is hard, programming well is harder. But, a finished program is (you guessed it) priceless. As cheesy as that is, it is true. If you need any more help or input, just ask, these forums are what helped make me better (even reading posts that you know you can't reply to is good, because you can read what more experienced programmers think about things). Not to say I am perfect, far from it actually.

Good luck, looking forward to seeing how far you can get with this.

Ever notice how in Microsoft word, the word "microsoft" is auto corrected to be "Microsoft" but "macintosh" just gets the dumb red underline?
Quirkyjim
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Posted: 28th Nov 2008 15:15 Edited at: 28th Nov 2008 17:26
Wow, great advice. I'll think I'll take away the tower and start over, just doing the ai. Thanks a lot.

[EDIT]

Okay, I haven't really started coding at all yet, but does this look good so far (code-wise)?


[ANOTHER EDIT]
I've started a new project: just a basic login function that I was planning to post on the codebase...if it worked...

However, it's not working, and I'm not sure why. I'm pretty sure it's some simple mistake, but could you check it for errors?


~QJ
Ashingda 27
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Posted: 28th Nov 2008 18:09 Edited at: 28th Nov 2008 18:11
@Quirkyjim
Yeah it does but you're missing a Main Loop?
Quirkyjim
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Posted: 28th Nov 2008 19:44
Which one?

~QJ
Irojo
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Posted: 28th Nov 2008 20:02
Quirky

On your second program, I noticed it ran the first time. I didn't enter my username, because I didn't want to create a file on my computer. Then I ran the program again, and it gave me a severe exception.

Perhaps this is the same error you are experiencing/


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Quirkyjim
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Posted: 28th Nov 2008 20:52
Something like that. But what I get is that the user is there, but it doesn't recognize the user.

~QJ
BN2 Productions
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Posted: 28th Nov 2008 22:25
Quote: "Okay, I haven't really started coding at all yet, but does this look good so far (code-wise)?"


Yeah! Good job, that is exactly the format I wanted to see! Nice comments too!

Will get on to bug checking your code after work tonight

Ever notice how in Microsoft word, the word "microsoft" is auto corrected to be "Microsoft" but "macintosh" just gets the dumb red underline?
Libervurto
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Posted: 29th Nov 2008 02:37
@Irojo
I think you should call the game Irojohedrons!
BN2 did a pretty good run-down of your code so I'll just add a few points.

The initialisation of your program (setting up the screen and getting images and what not) can be improved on.
A simple one for starters is the orientation of your SYNC ON and HIDE MOUSE commands.
As you know, SYNC ON set screen synchronisation to manual and the screen wont be updated until it finds a SYNC command. So your program sets sync to manual and only hides the mouse way down in the loop when it runs into a SYNC. Placing HIDE MOUSE first hides it immediately.

Like BN2 I had trouble following your code, the gosub labels aren't very descriptive for one - I can't tell what "remake" does.
All the initialisation should be stored in several subroutines to help the reader follow what's going on. You could simply make one big subroutine for all your initialisation and call it "Initialise:" but that doesn't tell us anything. It would be better to make a few subroutines called things like "GetSounds:", "GetImages:", "ScreenSetup:" and so on. Piling indiscriminate chunks of code into ambiguously named subs is the coding equivalent of shoving all your mess under your bed; it's out of the way but it's going to be hard to find what you want.

Your program has some indentation but none for the main loop and gosubs.
This code shows me that you're struggling with indentation...

It should look like this

ELSE ends one condition and starts another (the opposite); since it is ending a condition it comes back out to the same line as IF, the code in the else condition is indented and then ENDIF brings the line back out once more.

Take a look at my structure tutorial, structure seems to be much more of a problem for you than actual coding, but you need to get your formatting right before you can push yourself further.

A small program that works is better than a large one that doesn't.

DBC Challenge Rank: Rookie
Quirkyjim
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Posted: 29th Nov 2008 18:21
I don't know why I didn't think of it before: a muktiplayer game!

~QJ
BN2 Productions
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Posted: 29th Nov 2008 19:39
If you mean online multiplayer, it is VERY hard, especially for a new programmer.

Ever notice how in Microsoft word, the word "microsoft" is auto corrected to be "Microsoft" but "macintosh" just gets the dumb red underline?
Quirkyjim
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Posted: 29th Nov 2008 19:49
Which is EXACTLY why we should go for it!

~QJ
Quirkyjim
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Posted: 29th Nov 2008 20:43
Okay, I just have to do it...

500TH POST!!!!

W00T!!

~QJ

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