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Work in Progress / Dark DynamiX - PhysX Wrapper for DBPro/GDK

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Matty H
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Posted: 8th Mar 2012 21:39
The 2D thing will be possible when I add to the DYN PICK commands.

For an object modeller, they usually have a visual representation of each vertex, like a small box or something, it may be better to just use this? That said, a custom solution like I explained above might still be useful in some circumstances.

I will concentrate on the DYN PICK for now as this will provide a solution for the modelling program thingy

Fallout
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Posted: 8th Mar 2012 22:13
My thoughts are concentrate on the fundamentals before adding the bells and whistles. It'd be great to see a solid fundamentals release 1.0, with future extras coming in updates. Would love to see a more basic 1.0 I could rely on, rather than a more feature packed 0.4 that I felt might cause me headaches with bugs and partially implemented functionality. Just my 2 pennies!

Brendy boy
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Posted: 8th Mar 2012 22:14
Quote: "With vertices, same again but it would be great to accurately id the object/limb vertex - thinking you could use this in an object modeller to push in/pull out individual vertices etc? Not the most obvious use of this plugin i grant you but it would still be damn useful..."

you can do this without any external plugins. Convert local vertex position to global, convert that global position to screen position and then test if it is within some defined radius from mouse coordinates.
Vertices can be visualy represented using 3D dot batches from Cloggy's plugin

Matty H
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Posted: 19th Mar 2012 01:55
Dark Dynamix v1.0 is complete, it has been sent to TGC for testing. As they are pretty busy and I am away on holiday soon it will probably be released mid April.

Here is a new vid:



I have looked into ragdolls for bone animation, although I think it's possible already if you have external modelling programs and know what you are doing, I will be looking to add commands to simplify the whole process for bone animated models.

Southside Games
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Posted: 19th Mar 2012 06:28
"watches vid"

shut up and take my money!
MrValentine
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Posted: 19th Mar 2012 08:42
thats odd I thought I had taken part in this discussion...

well here I am now

Any updates on this plugin?

also I am confused... an end user still requires the system software for hardware accelleration correct?

and 2.8.4 will you update to the newer 3.0+ library in the future?

and how much more different than the original PhysX is this in comparison?

thanks in advance...

awaiting my money to be taken from me should this answer all my curiosities

Fallout
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Posted: 19th Mar 2012 10:48
Awesome news Matty. I look forward to playing with it when it's an official TGC expansion.

Irradic
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Posted: 19th Mar 2012 11:37
That's great news Matty ! We are anxiously awaiting the release of your plug-in, it will replace Dark Physics in Samurai Legends.
Dark DynamiX is what Dark Physics should have been, but never came to be.

Matty H
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Posted: 19th Mar 2012 15:54
Quote: "Any updates on this plugin?

also I am confused... an end user still requires the system software for hardware accelleration correct?

and 2.8.4 will you update to the newer 3.0+ library in the future?

and how much more different than the original PhysX is this in comparison?"


The trial version has not had an update, the date of last update is on the top of the first post, it wasn't too long ago.

The end user will require system software for hardware acceleration, although since they have a NVIDIA card anyway it should be straight forward if they don't have it already. I will look into this in more detail.

PhysX 3 is almost a complete rewrite and it's unlikely I will be able to update to that, it's structured very differently. I have tried PhysX 3 a little but at the moment 2.8.4 has more features and is still supported with regular updates.

The original PhysX was a very long time ago and I never tried it, I started working with PhysX from v2.7, not too much difference since then, probably mostly small bug fixes, the biggest difference is not needing system software(unless hardware is being used).

@Fallout & Irradic

Thanks, your projects are very impressive and it would be great if any of them ended up using Dark Dynamix, I would love to show people these games and say I played a small part

Fallout
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Posted: 19th Mar 2012 16:40
Likewise mate! It's nice to have people like yourself working on really useful plug-ins, filling in those functionality gaps and making DBP/DGDK a fully viable game development solution.

MrValentine
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Posted: 19th Mar 2012 17:56
I agree with Fallout and Irradic

Matty H thank you yeah I was overtired when writing that I forgot that the point of this is to hold the software aka cpu version of PhysX within a DLL of sorts... excellent work and I look forward to buying you a coffee in the near future... in fact I have cash in my wallet waiting to transmit ^^ and April is my birthday month so yay ^^

Irradic I want your game and also did you setup a website for Samurai Legends yet¿ if not I would love to make one for you in exchange for some insight into your development ^^ I and a discount of your game hehe

Clonkex
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Posted: 20th Mar 2012 00:42
Yay! Will buy as soon as it's available!! DynamiX rules the DBPro physics world!

Clonkex

Irradic
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Posted: 20th Mar 2012 12:41
@Matty H - We have to thank you for giving us the opportunity to enhance our games with your plug-ins. Actually guys like you are the people who are keeping DBPro afloat with the creation of new Plug-ins.

@MrValentine - Thanks, I actually haven't set up a website for Samurai Legends yet. But I don't want to go off topic in Matty's thread. Just click on my signature, we can talk there.

MrValentine
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Posted: 20th Mar 2012 13:25
Totally

I keep finding ways to spend the budget for this... MAKE IT SOON ^^

MrValentine
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Posted: 10th Apr 2012 17:09
SFDPB... [Sorry For Double Pot But...]

Really curious when this will be released as I am about to buy a load of stuff and want to know if this will come out tomorrow...

Matty H
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Posted: 10th Apr 2012 17:48
I have just contacted Mike and they are pretty busy, he has assured me that it will be released this month. Sorry it's a little later than I said originally.

MrValentine
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Posted: 10th Apr 2012 18:18 Edited at: 10th Apr 2012 18:42
thank you again Matty...

as DP is at its price point by itself... would DD have similar pricing?

it is ok if you can not hint on this at this point in time, I just need to know whether I sould just get Genetica now or wait to get them both togeter... [I desperately need textures lol... side note, does anyone know how to create normal maps? I have elgooged already and no luck... email me if you have any solutions thanks in advance]

EDIT

Just noticed something funny, you also made DI

Matty H
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Posted: 10th Apr 2012 20:41
I am not sure on price yet as I have not discussed it with TGC, as soon as I know I will post here.

My initial thoughts are to price it around the same as Dark Physics was on release, only I'm not sure if that was the same as it is now or more expensive.

I have written Dark Imposters and Model-2-Sprite while working on Dark Dynamix, Dark Dynamix is my biggest project to date and I want to give it full support upon release so I hope people can keep that in mind if the price is a little higher than they expected.

MrValentine
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Posted: 10th Apr 2012 22:07
thing for me is, I am after Genetica at the moment, and DI too and then also DD... aaargh I need those textures... my projects will never get anywhere without a texture database... got so many options for spending right now and a limited budget... I wonder if Lee would work out something for me...

of course I would love to support DD as much as possible as I would 100% end up using it in ALL of my productions... [hence lovely marketing material for you and TGC ]

Matty H
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Posted: 11th Apr 2012 00:15
Quote: " I wonder if Lee would work out something for me..."


Not sure, I suppose they might give you three product discount and give you two now and Dark Dynamix when it is released, you would need to email them.

They can be limited to what they can do if they don't own the software outright.

Southside Games
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Posted: 11th Apr 2012 00:21
How much was dark physics when it was launched? And yah. I'd be ok paying a little more
MrValentine
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Posted: 11th Apr 2012 01:56
Quote: "They can be limited to what they can do if they don't own the software outright."


I am ware of this... I will just pay up full rate ^^ happy to do so [course theres the multi buy discount yippie

gwheycs62egydws
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Posted: 11th Apr 2012 04:17
I own Dark Physics
it did what it did

based on what I have seen so far "Dark DynamiX - PhysX Wrapper for DBPro/GDK"
I see this being much better and worth the price
even paying a bit more would be worth it
to get the better quicker results

what ever it's prices I will pay with in reason

my one need is the liquids was not fully finished in Dark Physics

The liquid was slow and the color choice was never put in place

and I found one persons example was excluded from the final winners
list since his covered a lot of what it was created to do
which all I can say is shame on the people picking what examples
that should have been part show casing what it could do

to move side ways - is to move forward
Since a Strait line gets thin fast
Fallout
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Posted: 11th Apr 2012 17:59 Edited at: 11th Apr 2012 18:00
Pricing is an art in itself. It's not what it's worth to you, in terms of work done, it's what it's worth to your customers. Even if it took you 10 times longer to make than your other products, is it 10 times more useful and important to others? If it is, does that mean it should cost 10 times more? Obviously, no!

Conclusion: good luck choosing a price!

But if I had to throw a figure into the mix, I'd say around £10 for a product you intend to fix a few bugs on and then leave as is, and up to £20 for a product you intend to support and evolve for a reasonable period of time. Some people will pay more, but many won't.

Again, good luck figuring it out!

MrValentine
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Posted: 11th Apr 2012 18:01
my only issue is i already have DP... so justifying a high cost... might not work out for me aside from it using a newer PHYSX engine...

gwheycs62egydws
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Posted: 12th Apr 2012 04:23
Dark Physics is being sold for $60

since it's unfinished it's rile worth $40

if Dark DynamiX - PhysX Wrapper for DBPro/GDK
is quicker and has every thing Dark Physics was suppose to have

then $50 is what I would pay
but for most about $40 is ware most would say yes too

I know a lot of hours were put into getting this running for
DBP so that why I said I would pay $50

I own Dark Physics and the liquids was the only part that fell short

to move side ways - is to move forward
Since a Strait line gets thin fast
Matty H
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Posted: 12th Apr 2012 17:13
Pricing is always difficult and you never really know if you got it right, I tend to take advice from TGC as they have more experience than me.

Quote: "I own Dark Physics and the liquids was the only part that fell short
"


The only reason I decided to write this was because it seemed the character controller and vehicles were not straight forward in Dark Physics.

I have also taken a slightly different route with Dynamix. It seems Dark Physics tried to do more for you, such as set up the vehicles/ragdolls or render the fluids in an attempt to make things really easy for the user. This was well intentioned and perhaps makes sense when creating a plugin for a basic language, but I think people quickly want more control and I have tried to keep that in mind while trying to keep it as simple as possible.

So as far as fluids/particles go, Dynamix does not render them for you since rendering has no place in PhysX and it's probably the same with most physics engines. That said, I have put in commands to make it easy to sync objects to the particles, I am also looking to help people have everything they need for different rendering techniques.

You only have to google around to see how many different methods there are for rendering fluids, some highly realistic(and complex) but not possible in a real time game, others less convincing but fast and easier to set up.

So I will provide commands for you to retrieve fluid particles positions and remaining life and you can render them however you wish, and as mentioned, there are some commands to make it easy to sync objects to your the particles but this will not be the most efficient method.

Matty H
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Posted: 25th Apr 2012 23:07
This should be released next week, perhaps as early as Monday and will be priced at £37.99 which is the same as Dark Physics.

Dark Dynamix will also share the Dark Physics/Dark AI section of the forum which will help me provide help and information after release

Southside Games
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Posted: 26th Apr 2012 04:04
A little more than I was hoping. but then agian I'm cheep. a nice price really ^^ I'll put money aside for it. can't wait!
gwheycs62egydws
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Posted: 26th Apr 2012 04:28
@ Southside Games

look at this way

Dark Physics has been abandoned by "The Game Creators"
and it was soo close to be complete

"Matty H" is available if you need help or if there is problem
which from what I have seen there is not

@Matty H

Glad to know it's ready to be released

I just hope there is not type's like there was with Dark Physics ;oP

I got some help with the problem that I had at a latter date

before that I came up with a work around but it made the example not look right but it worked

the price currently works out to $44.88 Canadian
so I do not mind if it works like I need it too

to move side ways - is to move forward
Since a Strait line gets thin fast
gwheycs62egydws
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Posted: 26th Apr 2012 04:35
@Matty H

would it be possible to post the Driving Example ?

unless you have already and I missed it

to move side ways - is to move forward
Since a Strait line gets thin fast
Southside Games
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Posted: 26th Apr 2012 05:43
lol I was not saying it was a bad price. it is very fare considering the fact it is already better than dark physics. I'm very exited!
MrValentine
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Posted: 26th Apr 2012 05:57 Edited at: 26th Apr 2012 05:58
Keen to check this out and I suppose that is the pre-tax [VAT] price so hmm, I have no choice but to buy this as soon as I can really...

As I am getting free soon and should be able to toy with the character controllers and vehicle dynamix >.< soon... as they are core components of my games to come...

Thank you Matty for fixing something that is somewhat broken and out of date...

will have to find something extra to get the multibuy discount ^^
now what else do I need

EDIT

I need to start editing my posts in word before putting them in here lol I

gwheycs62egydws
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Posted: 26th Apr 2012 05:59
@Southside Games

I've been buying peaces over the last 3 years
it's only been in the last year ware my spending for more
expensive needed software has take place

it also help to have steady job unlike last year ware
work was very sparse and I had to put thing on hold

the only program I got left to get is
3d studio max which is about $3,500 usa and it was $10 for shipping eash
not it's less and I can just download it cutting down on the costs

to move side ways - is to move forward
Since a Strait line gets thin fast
Southside Games
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Posted: 26th Apr 2012 06:35
... 3,500 bucks for that? it better make me a taco... what can it do that is worth such a price?
gwheycs62egydws
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Posted: 26th Apr 2012 07:21
it's the best 3d object creation program

it can make and animate 3d objects and texture map an object that is built in it

and make animated 3d movies with it

and there are free and pay additions to simulate

I found out about in 1996 but I know it's been around longer than that

look it up on the net and you will see for your self why it cost
what it cost's

to move side ways - is to move forward
Since a Strait line gets thin fast
baxslash
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Posted: 26th Apr 2012 10:54
They used to have a free version which did everything you would need for making game characters but that was when it was owned by discreet. Once AutoDesk got their hands on it gMax (I think it was called) was dumped.

I first started playing with max in 94 version 5. It was pretty amazing then. My friend is a reseller for AutoDesk and has the latest version which is incredible for graphic artists and film makers.

On topic:
Well done Matty! Can't wait to see how well it performs

Matty H
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Posted: 26th Apr 2012 12:27
Thanks for the kind comments

@Resourceful - I will definitely provide a more advanced vehicle example. I have put lots of time figuring out how to get the handling right and will put it all into a tutorial/example to save other people some time.

Fallout
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Posted: 26th Apr 2012 12:47
Great news mate and well done! Looking forward to getting my hands on it. I hope we can figure something out with boned rag dolls though. That'd be my primary use for it in Carnage.

Matty H
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Posted: 26th Apr 2012 15:56
Yes, boned rag dolls are pretty high on my list.

I obviously can't promise I will succeed but I have some code from TGC showing how they did it with ODE, even though it's a little complex I am confident I will get it working.

Fallout
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Posted: 26th Apr 2012 17:31 Edited at: 26th Apr 2012 17:31
Thanks Matty. Good to hear. It's really high on my list too. The difference between having a character play a stock death animation for the millionth time, verse tumbling dynamically down a staircase in a new an interesting fashion, is significant to my game.

I'll be happy to lend a hand when I get there, if that helps. I'm no maths genius, but I am able to brute force my way through most problems with a combination of relentless Googling and trial and error, if understanding it 100% isn't an option.

Matty H
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Posted: 28th Apr 2012 14:14
Quote: "I'm no maths genius, but I am able to brute force my way through most problems with a combination of relentless Googling and trial and error, if understanding it 100% isn't an option. "


I can relate to that, many hours on google

If you are familiar with a few modelling programs then you may be able to set up the characters bones as limbs and it will then work with Dark Dynamix. Kistech was trying to get boned ragdolls working with Dynamix a few months ago, the last I heard he had almost achieved it with one of the army FPSC model packs.

I think my advice to him at the time was to wait to see if I can get boned ragdolls working without any extra work, that would be my advice to you but if you do try altering your models you may want to contact Kistech as he will point you in the right direction.

Fallout
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Posted: 30th Apr 2012 15:38 Edited at: 30th Apr 2012 15:39
Thanks for the suggestion mate. I will approach Kistech if there isn't a boned solution by the time I get to working on rag dolls. What's the issue exactly though? I confess I have only played with the compiled EXEs you made available, so not sure what's going on under the covers.

My only observation regarding bones vs limbs and DBP is, if you have a character with a single mesh and rigged with a skeleton, the LIMB commands affect those joints. If you have a character with multiple meshes and no skeleton, the LIMB commands affect each mesh. However, I've always assumed the rotations happen in exactly the same way, the only difference being vertex manipulation/weighting goes on in the rigged model, where as the separate mesh model just moves each mesh.

I'm not sure how you'd go about setting up a rigged model so that it is just limbs instead of bones, without having a load of separate meshes which move independently. Don't feel like you have to explain the problem though if you're busy. I'm just curious!

I will get to playing with it as soon as it's released and I can get my grubby mitts on it!

Matty H
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Posted: 30th Apr 2012 16:24
My knowledge of 3D modelling and animation is pretty limited but I would say you have described the situation pretty good.

For the model to work with Dynamix in its current state the model does indeed need multiple meshes(limbs), the mix and match situation of limbs and bones confuses me a little so I can't really help there. What I do know is that the rotations are handled differently for each type and I have a good idea of what I need to do.

I will start looking at it again this week, I will post here with any progress.

Fallout
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Posted: 30th Apr 2012 16:40
Ahh, that makes perfect sense then. I completely forgot that separate meshes don't have a hierarchy and therefore the rotations wouldn't effect each other. I am assuming if they did have a hierarchy the rotation problem would be the same as with bones.

Yes, I don't envy you having to look at that problem. I'm guessing what you have to do is get the rotation from the physics engine, and then "simply" apply that to each limb. The "simple" bit being the back tracking through the skeleton hierarchy, and calculating what rotation to apply to the limb so it points in the world rotation indicated by the physics engine. I'm guessing that's right.

It's a shame Ron Erickson isn't around anymore. He did EZ Rotate and Enhance animations and I'm pretty sure he could solve that problem for you quickly. It might even be worth emailing him. He was always really helpful when I messaged him and seemed like a really good guy.

Southside Games
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Posted: 30th Apr 2012 19:17
any word on a release date? or just the next week or so?
Matty H
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Posted: 30th Apr 2012 22:08
I have started working through the code TGC sent me for boned ragdolls and so far it is working, I have physics boxes being set up around each bone and positioned correctly for the current animation frame.

I got that far doing it my own way before I got stuck, the difference now is that I should be able to carry on working through their code and I can't see any reason why it wont work, a long way to go yet though.

@Southside Games - Last week Mike said it should be released today but I have not heard from him, probably busy, it should be this week I would think.

Fallout
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Posted: 1st May 2012 17:17
Good news Matty. I shall have a beer on standby for your success.

Actually, it'll probably be a Magners.

Southside Games
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Posted: 1st May 2012 21:59
if I could drink I would join you with that beer.
Matty H
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Posted: 2nd May 2012 18:22
After a long period of banging my head against a wall I have finally had a breakthrough.

I can now create/position/orientate physics actors to represent bones, and now I can also update the bones with physics(this is where I was stuck). I can say that bone animation ragdolls are now a certainty

About release, TGC are updating the compiler and then they will release, not sure on a date though.

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