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Work in Progress / Operation Desert Fallout (Dissertation project) Image heavy!

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Fallout
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Posted: 10th Feb 2006 20:33
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I'm not sure how that code will hold up, but I'll take your word for it if it works. The only problems I have with the object in screen command is it's not 100% accurate. Have a look at this for example to see how long it takes to detect the sphere is off screen.



Also, it doesn't take into account (as far as I am aware) the cast range of a 3D shadow. So it may cull an object that if off-screen but is casting a shadow into the viewable window.

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Fallout
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Posted: 11th Feb 2006 22:16
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Hello peeps. Well, unable to concentrate on my Java and C# lab books, I went back to the game today and spent the day playing with my particle engine. It's been a right royal pain in the backside to get the type of particles I wanted. Ghosting looks a bit lame on smoke as it makes it too bright. Alpha causes lots of clipping issues. I couldnt get true soft smoke particles (ie fluffy at the edges and opaque in the middle), so I came up with a method of a dynamic mesh that has defused vertices at the outside and opaque verts in the middle. Then I can diffuse the verts dynamically to fade the particles in and out. Anyway, I used a crashing chopper as a basis for the testing. Here's a short vid of it going down!



Chopper Crash (1MB WMV)

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UFO
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Posted: 11th Feb 2006 22:22
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That looks very nice! Good Job


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Chris Franklin
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Posted: 11th Feb 2006 22:29
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WOW!!!!!! i think i'm gonna die this is superb ....

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Hawkeye
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Posted: 11th Feb 2006 22:33
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Now that is a nice explosion


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Fallout
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Posted: 12th Feb 2006 01:06
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Thanks chaps. Unfortunately, testing a plume of smoke I found serious zdepth issues, so smoke effects will have to remain fairly sparse. No chimnies billowing it out, but enough to keep it sexy.

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TDP Enterprises
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Posted: 12th Feb 2006 01:13
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thats fine with me, project look good

Box World.....WIP coming soon....
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Gil Galvanti
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Posted: 12th Feb 2006 01:34
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Awesome screens and videos. Any demo release date?

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Fallout
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Posted: 12th Feb 2006 10:45
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Let's set a preliminary date for april 1st. And no, that's not a joke, that's just about the right time.

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Cliff 3degs network
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Posted: 12th Feb 2006 14:24 Edited at: 12th Feb 2006 14:25
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i recomend that you use alpha chanelled images when you want dark smoke effects its really easy and looks great.
you yust make an mask of the image that you then paint brighter on the parts you want to be more visible.
and then saves the mask as an alpha cannel.
but dont forget to hide both the alpha and mask before saving the image as an tga file.
i have made an tutorial on this in the fps creator thread.
i started doing this when i found out of that the built in dark ghosting didt work that well.
looks great as always cheers.

Edited....
if you use this way so dosent you nead to use the ghosting command at all.

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dark coder
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Posted: 12th Feb 2006 14:27 Edited at: 12th Feb 2006 14:27
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i blieve hes already tried alpha mapping if you read his replies,

anyways it looks really cool, gotta love the blending textures

Halowed are the ori.
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Fallout
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Posted: 12th Feb 2006 16:31
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@Cliff

I've been thinking about this, but unfortunately I don't have any software that allows me to output PNG or TGA files with an alpha channel. I use PhotoPaint, and although it outputs PNG and TGA, those options are always disabled as soon as I try adding an alpha channel. So unfortunately I haven't been able to try out the method of including alpha in the image.

Using this method, I assume you can make the edges transparent and blend into an opaque centre for your image? Can you still use SET ALPHA MAPPING ON to blend this whole image into invisibility. And does it cause issues with clipping when they overlap?

Cheers for the suggestion.

@Dark Coder
Thanks for the props.

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Fallout
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Posted: 12th Feb 2006 19:00
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Tank trail particles are done. Should be generic for all vehicles with a few tweaks. I haven't considered what'll happen when the vehicles are on the roads yet, nor how I'll detect if they're on the roads. But anyway, here's some syncronised tank driving coutesy of bob, fred and burt, my three resident tank test drivers ...



Tank Tracks (2MB WMV)

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UFO
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Posted: 12th Feb 2006 19:04
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Nice


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Cliff 3degs network
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Posted: 12th Feb 2006 19:43 Edited at: 12th Feb 2006 19:51
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i use paint shop pro 7 have never liked photo shop.
probably because i started to paint with deluxe paint on my atari 520 stfm .
i havent tested it with alpha mapping so sorry cant answer that.
paint shop also tells me that when i saves an image with an alpha that it will not be included but it is anyway.
could it be the same with photo shop?
as you can se on the screenie so does the unit hud above the unit use alpha chanelled image.
you could always download the demo version of paint shop pro from jascs homepage?
and trye it out.
i mostly use the disable z depth and zwrite commands on stuff like explosions to get rid of the particle clipping.
but i do get weird effects from it when multiple objects meet that have these commands in use.
and creepy wonderfull tracks havent got there my self yet my doodles with it didt work out well.
and dont judge the screenie as its crapp as it have all kinds of data and variables on screen to be easier to code various stuff.
cheers

edited......
i almost forgott i want those tracks they look awesome
but iam one of those stupid people that wants to figure it out somehow by my self.
thats the fun part thats why i expect my game to be finished spring 2016.

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Fallout
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Posted: 12th Feb 2006 20:59
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Don't be silly man. Your screeny looks awesome. It reminds me of a much more modern version of cannon fodder at the moment! Nice style to ya graphics. It looks like it should turn out really well.

I can see the transparency in play in your screenie too. I'm using Corel PhotoPaint 8, not Adobe PhotoShop. 8 is a really old version - I think they're onto 12 now, so that might explain the incompatibility with alpha channels and stuff. One of the guys I live with has photoshop though, so I might see if he can make an alpha channeled image for me and see if works. At the moment, everything is working fine, BUT, my particle system is making use of two particle primitives - a flat plain, and a special smoke primitive with alpha blended vertices. If I could do away with that and simply use texture based alpha, I could probably simplify my particle system and that's always a good thing.

Cheers for the help. Would you mind sticking a simple alpha layer on top of a few images for me (exactly 4 image) if I can't get it to work on my housemates copy of photoshop?

Thanks mate.

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Chris Franklin
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Posted: 12th Feb 2006 21:25
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Wow this game is amazing superb tank tracks

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Cliff 3degs network
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Posted: 12th Feb 2006 21:57 Edited at: 12th Feb 2006 21:59
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ye sure let me know if it dosent work with your mate.
thanks but i have so much left to do are struggling with the icons now as i want the player to be able to choose units by clicking on its icon if selected or when pressing 1 to 9 select that groups units and there icons show up as they should.
iam using an array for each icon where i store its units object nr to simplify the selections.
cheers

edited
i also have cp 8 but never use it now days i like paint shop pros simplicity.

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Cliff 3degs network
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Posted: 12th Feb 2006 22:36
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yehh fixed so the icons and arrays work when selecting assigned groups yust left to fix the icons selection of units now.

fallout i yust wanted to show you wath i have meant with the low polly thing iam talking about se screenie.

iam doing the modell smoothness with an modified cartoon shader instead.

iam wondering are you still looking for an almost 100% accurate mouse to terrain?

i found one that works great in all angles in the code base by phillip young. (iam using it)
cheers

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Chris Franklin
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Posted: 12th Feb 2006 22:38
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Cool

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Fallout
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Posted: 13th Feb 2006 00:07 Edited at: 13th Feb 2006 00:08
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Good polycounts there mate! The only one I can claim is smaller is my troop units. Both solider units are 96 polys, but they're tiny on screen, where as yours need more polys cos they're bigger. Most of my vehicles are just over 200polys, and buildings vary from 200 to 400 polys, depending on size/complexity.

As for the mouse collision, I have a tried and tested method I've been using that work for me. Cheers for the head-ups though. There're a lot of good things people have contributed to the code base.

Btw, my housemate is not around, so I cant get him to try photoshop for the alpha. If you wouldn't mind giving it a go, I'd be really grateful. I'm just after a simple blended circular alpha on all of these images, so they're solid in the middle and blend to transparent at the outside in a cirular fashion.
Smoke1.bmp
Smoke2.bmp
Smoke3.bmp
Shadow.bmp

Then I can test out your alpha technique and see if it works for me. (Btw, feel free to use the smokey images if they're of any use to you).

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dark coder
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Posted: 13th Feb 2006 08:38
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love the tank trails! especially the way they fade out.

anyways i made the png`s also on my current project i experimented with transparent images and i think theres a dbp bug with transparent objects and instancing objects, as they tend to make holes in my terrain when rendered, not totally sure tho so its best to make thousands of plains . anyways attached --->

Halowed are the ori.

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Fallout
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Posted: 13th Feb 2006 10:22 Edited at: 13th Feb 2006 10:50
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Thanks for those! I gave the shadow one a try, and basically swapped it for my last one, switched off dark ghosting and switched on transparency. It worked, but I get this effect.



It looks like it's almost 100% blended at the corners, but then their are clear lines where it's not blending down the sides. I'm not sure if that's the alpha layer on the image not 100% blended at the edge, or if it's the same problem I had with dark ghosting where you have to change the fade/illumination of the object. I've messed with fade object, all transparency settings and changing the objects response to light. All this transparency stuff is a pain.

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dark coder
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Posted: 13th Feb 2006 13:24
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oops my selection must have missed a bit, anyways this should be fine -->

Halowed are the ori.

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Fallout
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Posted: 13th Feb 2006 13:28
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Actually, don't worry mate. You did something even better. You showed me how to do it myself. I opened one of your images in PhotoPaint and it opened fine. Then I looked at the channels and looked at how it was working. Photopaint doesnt refer to it as an alpha channel, but instead as a mask, so I can replicate the same technique using Photopaint after all.

Thanks for the images. They helped me figure it out and now I'm giving them a try. Cheers to Cliff aswell for the help.

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Wiggett
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Posted: 13th Feb 2006 14:20
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man I'm going crazy overboard with live action cut scenes. Yours is a desert one eh? want some sort of live action sequences ala' red alert 2? I mean I can get a formal looking outfit that makes someone look like a general and have them infront of a green screen saying some random spiel, and I can get an outfit for the other team too. I can get it done pretty quick smart if you need it.

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Fallout
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Posted: 13th Feb 2006 15:28
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haha. Live action cutscenes could actually be fun, but I can't use em on this project for uni. However mate, it's always a possibility when uni is done and I continue the project into further development. Some Aussy general spouting some crap about desert combat could be a laugh. Keep that idea on hold though mate! Could be one for the future.

Btw, here's some rocket trail particle effects and homing system. There's no collision yet, so they go on for ever!



Funky Rockets (1MB - WMV)

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Wiggett
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Posted: 13th Feb 2006 15:39
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haha ok I will hold off. Those rockets are awesome though!

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Van B
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Posted: 13th Feb 2006 16:23
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Damn that's looking sweet! - love the tank trails.

Just a quick note about that tree shadow - ensure that your disabling lighting on alpha transparent particles, if you disable fog and lighting the plains should blend nicely - and disabling those increses performance on those objects. If your using vertice lighting on your terrain you could disable lighting on that too - I think it's a speed boost of about 20% with disabled lights so worth considering for the objects that can cope without light.


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zzz
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Posted: 13th Feb 2006 16:35
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Hey, this looks truly awesome! Nice work, dude!

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Fallout
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Posted: 13th Feb 2006 17:29
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Thanks guys.

@Van

Thanks for the advice mate. I have everything looking good now and blending nicely, but I had forgot to turn off fog and few other bits and bobs. I'll have a look through at all the object properties and see what I can tweak.

Anyway, inspired by Pendulum-Slam, I felt like having a go at theme music today. I think what I've come up with should do the job nicely! This is a first pass arangement and will be extended and changed heavily later on.

ODF Theme Music (First Revision)(1.2MB MP3)

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Wiggett
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Posted: 13th Feb 2006 17:32
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dunno, sounds a little too overbearing, for something like the intro or a demo movie yeah, but for ingame stuff its a little too loud and overbearing. then again red alert 2 had some awesome sound tracks that you mute sfx for

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Fallout
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Posted: 13th Feb 2006 17:41 Edited at: 13th Feb 2006 17:42
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It's the theme for the intro and menu mate. In game music will be more subtle and atmospheric, like ya said. Keep it mellow in game, and heavy for the intro.

Edit: Picture the intro for C&C:Generals and the menu scene, and that's when this'll be used.

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Megaton Cat
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Posted: 13th Feb 2006 17:52
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Evil! Pure evil!!!

I mean er...yeah. Love it.

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Wiggett
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Posted: 13th Feb 2006 18:18
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haha yeah very suitable for that scene. just make sure it doesnt lag bad like the real generals menu scene did.(by lag i mean frame rate drop)

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Fallout
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Posted: 13th Feb 2006 19:09
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Dunno man. I thought the idea of that scene in generals was you could adjust the graphics settings and see instantly how it would affect game performance. I was thinking about doing a similar thing - having a scene with shooting and particle effects etc. going on in the background, then you can tweak the menu and see how it affects performance, almost in real time. What I will do though is have effects switched to medium as default, so it doesn't go at a snail pace the first time you load it if you have a slower compo.

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Fallout
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Posted: 13th Feb 2006 20:50 Edited at: 13th Feb 2006 20:55
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bwahahaha! Mwahahahahahaha! Weeheheheheheh! It's not even funny how happy I am with this one.

Sound system is pretty much locked tight! Someone commented on my concept vid and said the 3D sound was cool. I didn't have the heart to say the sound was superimposed on in Movie Maker AFTER I exported the video. But it made me think I had to do a similar thing.

It's not so much that all the panning works and the volume fades properly. It's more the fact that I worked out I couldn't have 40 choppers in the game, all playing their own sounds cos the audio scape would be a mess, the performance hit would be big, and lots of sound cards wouldnt even support it. So I worked on a system that dynamically pools sounds that want to play, or loop, prioritises them based on range from the camera and whether they are short or long, then plays back up to 4 looping sounds max (in this game, it'll probably only be choppers with looping audio) and up to 20 simultaneous single play sounds.

Anyway, I'm chuffed because it works and I didn't spend hours and hours bug fixing like I thought I would. Here's 7 choppers and one guy launching rockets all happily being noisey.

3D Sound Engine (WMV - 2.5MB)

Edit: The chopper sound is too loud at the moment compared to the rocket sound, so ignore that difference.

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Cliff 3degs network
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Posted: 13th Feb 2006 21:12
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looking nice as always then i suppose you dont nead my help with the images anymore.
didt know about that with the light and fog cheers van b.

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Fallout
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Posted: 13th Feb 2006 22:13
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Thanks for the help anyway mate. Your original suggestion of image transparency got the ball rolling. The transparency thing is definitely gonna help me out on this project and in the future, so nice one.

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Bizar Guy
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Posted: 13th Feb 2006 22:17
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I can only hope the game play is as awesome as it appears it will be.

Definitely continue this project until it’s a full game. If you do, I'll definitely buy it (if you sell it, that is).

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Cliff 3degs network
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Posted: 13th Feb 2006 22:19
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always nice to help an fellow rts developer.
cheers

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Peter H
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Posted: 14th Feb 2006 00:37 Edited at: 14th Feb 2006 00:38
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Sweet swirling onion rings!!

the rockets, sound system, and smoke trails are teh awesome!

[edit] and tank tracks

"We make the worst games in the universe..."
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Wiggett
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Posted: 14th Feb 2006 04:19
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haha the tank drove through a tree.

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Fallout
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Posted: 14th Feb 2006 13:09
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Shhh ... nobody else spotted that.

Yeah, collision is still to do. I've not even thought about it yet, cos I know the whole AI/pathfinding/collision is gonna be an integral system, and it's gonna be the big boy of the problem world. So that's after all the eye candy and basics are done.

And eh, I got a sticky! Thanks for that.

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Professor
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Posted: 14th Feb 2006 20:06
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Hi,

This is a realy nice game you have going, i just looked at the 3dsound video, and i thought that it might be cool to have a 2nd helicopter sound, like one where the heli is far away.. A low pitch sound that you might hear. Well just an idea! keep up the good work.


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The Nerd
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Posted: 14th Feb 2006 20:11 Edited at: 14th Feb 2006 20:11
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This game looks really great!
The graphics are very good! And everything in the game just looks superb!

Keep up the good work!

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Jack
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Posted: 14th Feb 2006 22:00
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Really nice!
How do you have done the tank trails?

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Fallout
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Posted: 15th Feb 2006 16:03
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Quote: "How do you have done the tank trails?"


I might release the particle code when the project is finished with how tos on all the particle effects I've managed to produce. But no promises.

Aiming to have a showcase of all the weapons by the end of tonight. It's quite a big undertaking, but I finally have shells, bullets and rockets all working, and it a matter of mixing and matching them up with particle effects and vehicles/units, so if I can get that all done today, I'll throw up an arsenal video.

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Snipa Masta
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Posted: 15th Feb 2006 19:43
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From the pictures you posted on the first page, you should make all the buildings flatshaded.

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Jack
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Posted: 15th Feb 2006 21:58 Edited at: 15th Feb 2006 21:59
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I dont want a code I want to know how I can do it !
I think you have a counter e.g
every sec will be a plain with the texture and the same rotation created under the tank but if ill do something

like this it looks like:__________but it should looks like:



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