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Work in Progress / Manuel

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TEH_CODERER
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Posted: 24th Oct 2006 14:01
Anyone tried it?

I decided to drop out of the LOTR game so I could concentrate fully on this. Aside from any games for relatives birthdays I am planning to stick to just this project. I've had some really good ideas (in my opinion) for this now so I will get designing properly and then get back to making.

Bizar Guy
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Posted: 24th Oct 2006 14:24
I tried it, pretty fun. I died pretty quickly though, and for a while I thought the thing chasing me was a badie.

TEH_CODERER
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Posted: 24th Oct 2006 16:29 Edited at: 24th Oct 2006 16:29
Lol! Thanks. My best score so far was 13,456. Did you work out what the pickups did?

TEH_CODERER
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Posted: 25th Oct 2006 12:15
OK, how is this for a good plan?

I've planned out a macro system for the level editor. Basically, whereas in Excel a macro may be run by clicking a button and then a few actions will becarried out, and in game switch will be triggered and then a set of actions like moving camera, rotating platforms etc. will be carried out. I've pretty much planned out how to do this now so if I can (be bothered to, Lol!) get it working then it will make the creation of new levels very easy and user friendly. I probably didn't describe that well but if you had the same understanding of it as me then I'm pretty sure you'd be impressed!

TEH_CODERER
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Posted: 25th Oct 2006 18:37 Edited at: 25th Oct 2006 18:38
Wahey! I'm finally very close to a damn good 3rd person camera. I sat down about half an hour ago and though my gosh it is annoying how 3rd person cameras almost always suck. Then an idea suddenly popped into my mind, well actually a small collection of linked ideas, and I got to work. The camera now chooses the best place to be based upon how much the camera will have to move, how well the player can be seen despite obstacles from that point and how much room the camera will have in that spot. Those three things are put into a formula I made which calculates a score for that position. The place with the best score is then chosen and the camera moves to it smoothly. The camera also, obviously, doesn't go through walls etc. I made a vid to show you what I mean. You will notice that the camera automatically follows the corridor without any input from me. Then it shows how when I try to hide behind a pillar, the camera notices and moves to make me visible. It is all better when not slowed down by Fraps. Well, I'm quite impressed anyway! I'm not entirely sure how well it will work in Manuel whilst the player is trying to line-up wall runs but for other games it will definately be useful. Once I optimise it I will probably release it as a code snippet.

The vid (Fraps really killed this for some reason):
http://s115.photobucket.com/albums/n304/andrewneale2004/?action=view¤t=cameratest.flv

Xenocythe
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Posted: 26th Oct 2006 00:03
cool, looks pretty good


TEH_CODERER
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Posted: 26th Oct 2006 13:56
The camera test or the game? Either way, thanks! I had another idea on improving the camera code and then screwed it up and lost the original! Grrr! I'm sure I'll get it working though.

eek
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Posted: 27th Oct 2006 04:42
That camera is great! Any chance of explaining a little more about it? If not, I understand completely. The camera looks really nice though.
TEH_CODERER
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Posted: 27th Oct 2006 12:21
@eek - Thanks. Your request was a bit ambiguous. For a minute I though you meant if I didn't explain it then you already understood it. Realised what you meant eventually though! Lol! Umm...not sure how to explain. Basically:

It uses a for/next loop between 0 and 315 with increment step 45. At each of these angles it raycasts from the player to the position when you zoom out (to the distance you want the camera) at x-angle=30, y-angle from the loop value and z-value=0. Then it checks how far away the loop angle is from the current camera angle. If its intersect value=0 then set it too the camera distance as this means there was no intersection. Now do an intersect from the current camera position to the possible one to make sure you don't go through any walls on the way. Then check if the zoom out intersection was bigger than any existing ones and if the angle change is smaller. At the end you use curvevalue/angle to move the camera to the new best place.

I'm quite sure that was a terrible explanation and it probably isn't even quite right but as I said, I'm planning to give this as a code snippet at some point so hopefully seeing the remarked code will help.

@All - I've added a new feature now. Manuel will now only jump if you are running towards the end of a platform. This means when you want to jump you can run towards the edge whilst holding jump and at the last second Manuel will jump. More useful than it sounds, honest!

TEH_CODERER
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Posted: 27th Oct 2006 14:23
New feature - Manuel will now spin and grab a ledge when you make him run off. Basically means if you mess up and fall off you can simply haul up again. It took me a while because I had to make him spin to the right angle for the ledge no matter what angle you run off the ledge at but it seems to be working well now.

Xenocythe
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Posted: 27th Oct 2006 22:20
Wow man, this must take some major math.


eek
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Posted: 28th Oct 2006 00:36
Thanks, the explanation is great. I just wanted an idea of the process your code goes through before I attempt anything similar. Thanks for the info!
TEH_CODERER
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Posted: 28th Oct 2006 13:00
Quote: "Wow man, this must take some major math."

Not too much; more just logic which thankfully I'm rather good at.

@eek - No probs, glad it helps!

TEH_CODERER
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Posted: 30th Oct 2006 19:52
Well I have finished the first 1/3 of the tutorial level. I still have to do the sections on combat and traps etc. More news soon.

Xenocythe
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Posted: 30th Oct 2006 22:53
yay, can't wait to play


Bizar Guy
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Posted: 31st Oct 2006 01:48
HOw did you get the game to knowe the angles of nearby edges? It's important for a number of things I want to add to my game, and I haven't yet gotten around to implimenting it.

TEH_CODERER
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Posted: 31st Oct 2006 20:32
As much as I like helping out others I want to keep some things in my game to myself otherwise there is no point me making it and others will take credit for it. However, I've known you for a while and I really like your project so I'll e-mail you rather than post it here.

Bizar Guy
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Posted: 31st Oct 2006 20:46
That's cool. I got your message and replied.

TEH_CODERER
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Posted: 4th Nov 2006 03:09
Haven't had a chance to work for a while but as it is Saturday now I should be able to get something done. I've been playing Warrior Within on the X-Box for inspiration but all it did was make me realise how far to matching it I am! Not that I ever expected to but a bit smaller a margin would have been nice. However, it is mostly graphical so I'm not too worried. Also, the thing I'm hoping to add next is the bars to swing on. I have a feeling that this will not be as easy as the rest of the game. I'm also sort of hoping to add the ability to shimmy round corners; at the moment Manuel well stop at the corner of a ledge. I'm also starting to make trap models ready for when I get to that stage.

Cian Rice
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Posted: 4th Nov 2006 03:40
I'd suggest you play the Two Thrones instead for inspiration, it's more inspiring, and just feel likes it would help better as it has more platforming than the over-abundant combat in WW.

Xenocythe
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Posted: 4th Nov 2006 03:46
Haha, bad idea there mate. Play every single POP game in order .Its the most amazing set of games you'll come across


SPOILER!!!



TEH_CODERER
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Posted: 4th Nov 2006 10:39
Yeah, unfortuantely when I was in Choices a while back I only had £5 so I could only afford WW or SoT. WW just looked better. Hopefully I'll get the others at some point. There isn't too much combat in WW; seems like a good balance to me especially when you can actually just run away from most fights anyway. After starting to play yesterday I have just finished killing the huge iron monster golem thing. I really want to have bosses like that in Manuel.

Don Malone
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Posted: 4th Nov 2006 14:24
Quote: "I'm starting to struggle to see how this game will be fun after the first few wall runs. I'm not sure what it is about Prince Of Persia that makes it work so well. Any ideas?"


I am just going to throw a few things out; as I don't know exactly what you want your game to be.

1) Give the player a cookie at intervals of completion. A reward for achieving a certain point is required to keep a game interesting. Meet new and interesting characters as they play.

2) Reward the player with new or upgraded skills. The wall run is great but maybe it should be held for a reward or skill needed to complete a later level.

3) Of course cut scenes and rewards can't over come gameplay that is just not fun and you don't want to strip the fun from your game just to give rewards later.

4) You might want to work on an area with a jump(s) that is to long to make with a wall run. Two walls could be close enough together to allow the character to hop across from one wall to the other (if the timing is good enough); for harder difficulty, the timing would have to be more precise.

5) I know that you are working on interesting environments, but I will mention it anyway. That is what made the original Half Life fun for me. I did not know where I would wind up next. Inside, outside, lab, car pool, vent shafts... You got the idea.

I don't know if these are useful and I am sure you have already thought of most of them but, just giving you two pennies of thoughts.

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TEH_CODERER
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Posted: 4th Nov 2006 22:38
All sound like good ideas but could you try and explain 4 a bit more; I'm not quite sure I understand.

I've pretty much made the first trap and attached a vid of it. As always, looks better at real speed rather than Fraps speed.

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Xenocythe
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Posted: 4th Nov 2006 23:35
He means make a wall thats too long and you can't wall run the whole way. The only way to get past it is to wall run, jump to the left wall, wall run, jump to the right wall, and so on. His point is, just don't make it so you can wall run for ever.


TEH_CODERER
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Posted: 5th Nov 2006 15:56
Well the wall run does run out. I think I understand but I think the fact that the wall run runs out due to lack of velocity would make it so that if you jumped across you would not be able start again. But I'll give it some thought.

Xenocythe
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Posted: 5th Nov 2006 21:18
Thats a sweet spinblade


Mr Tank
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Posted: 6th Nov 2006 01:05
This is looking pretty ace.


You'll be able to click on this someday.
Don Malone
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Posted: 6th Nov 2006 02:49 Edited at: 6th Nov 2006 02:52
In hind sight the idea has some obvious flaws. But it was just something I threw out. There are several ways to break up the wall run to make it more interesting.

1) use the wall hop to drop down to a ledge with an entry way or door.
2) Wall run with a jump small jump at the end to reach a ledge.
3) Wall run to reach a ledge to get the momentum back up for another wall run. (which I am sure you are already planning.)
4) Wall run and jump onto the top of a wall running either parallel or perpendicular to your current direction.

Not great ideas by any stretch of the imagination but they may help to break the monotony a little, if the wall run is a major game component.

I don't play these types of games but I am really loving the look and ingenuity of your design so far. I hope you can really extend it to where you want it to be. I await further updates to see where you decide to go with the game.

Don.

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TEH_CODERER
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Posted: 6th Nov 2006 16:38
@Xenocythe - Thanks! It is my first try at UV mapping.
@Mr Tank - Thanks!
@DBoy780 - Thanks for the suggestions. As long as I am understanding then all those things are already used or planned. Number 4 I'm not quite sure what you mean though. I am also planning speed up pads on walls to re-start wall runs. Sorry if I didn't appear very supportive of your ideas because they were all good and I would like any ideas to be given to make this as good as possible.

TEH_CODERER
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Posted: 7th Nov 2006 15:29
Finally got Manuel to stop shimmying animation at the end of a ledge or when he hits a wall. It should have been simple but it caused no end of bugs and problems to pop up! Sorted now though. My next task is to make him able to turn corners whilst shimmying. I can see this being a bit of a toughy!

Xenocythe
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Posted: 7th Nov 2006 18:05
nice


Don Malone
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Posted: 8th Nov 2006 13:22
Quote: "4) Wall run and jump onto the top of a wall running either parallel or perpendicular to your current direction."

I didn't explain #4 very well and not sure I will do any better this time.

to the left is your wall for the wall run.
ahead is a pit or drop down.
The area is to long for a wall run.

To break up the space you could have a wall that only comes up to floor level.
That wall could either run forward toward the direction you are headed or could be used to change the characters direction either left or right.

I call it a wall because the landing area should be narrow and harder to make than a floor path.

Quote: "Sorry if I didn't appear very supportive of your ideas because they were all good and I would like any ideas to be given to make this as good as possible."


Not to worry. I am just throwing out random game play ideas that can vary the experience a little. Like I said, they are not very original and more than likely already in use or thought of by you. You have to make the decisions that work for you. Make the game you want. I just spouted the first thing I thought of.

Making nothing for the third straight year.

TEH_CODERER
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Posted: 8th Nov 2006 17:02
@DBoy780 - Thanks, I get it now. Any more ideas, please feel welcome to add.

@Xenocythe - Thanks. I have it close to working now but there are so many seemingly random problems occuring with it. I have it either so that it makes 90 degree turns whilst ledge grabbing perfectly every time or so that it can make 45 degree turns sometimes! It is getting frustrating but I'll get there.

TEH_CODERER
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Posted: 8th Nov 2006 18:11
YAZOO! I'VE DONE IT! YAY! Well as long as the angle is inwards anyway. I'll keep working and then upload a vid once it works both ways.

Flindiana Jones
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Posted: 11th Nov 2006 16:43
Ooh, that camera is really hot! Does it respond a bit better when it's running at full FPS? It seemed a wee bit sluggish, but very smart. Otherwise, this is looking more and more awesome. Keep it up!

You'd Forget you header if it wasn't compiled on!
TEH_CODERER
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Posted: 12th Nov 2006 13:21
@Flindiana Jones - Thanks. Yes it is a lot better at a good fps.

@All - Unfortuantely I haven't gotten time to work on this for a while but hopefully I'll get some time soon. Manuel's basic control system is so close to being done. That is unless I think of something else I want him to do!

TEH_CODERER
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Posted: 15th Nov 2006 17:07
Well I got a bit of time yesterday and have been able to fix a few bugs such as not ledge grabbing onto ludicrous slopes amongst a few other things. I think I will now try to implement traps starting with the spinblade I showed earlier.

TEH_CODERER
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Posted: 17th Nov 2006 16:39
The lack of available time is really annoying me now! I've also found another bug! Grr! Not a good day!

TEH_CODERER
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Posted: 18th Nov 2006 10:32
Fixed the bug I believe so NOW hopefully I can move onto traps. Really sorry about how little I've been able to show recently. Hope that changes soon.

TEH_CODERER
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Posted: 18th Nov 2006 13:29
This is heading towards an engine rewrite. Pain in the posterior but hopefully not too too big a job. I tried to implement a sliding move to slide under some traps or through gaps too small to walk through and realised what a mess the existing code is so I think it is for the best.

Crazy Ninja
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Posted: 18th Nov 2006 15:31
Ahh that stinks. Hope you get it back up and running man.

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TEH_CODERER
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Posted: 18th Nov 2006 16:05
Huzzah! Done it! The code wasn't as much of a mess as I thought; I clearly just wasn't awawke fully! Lol! Thanks Crazy Ninja! Sliding done now. Would you lot rather have a demo of the 1st section of the tutorial or do you want to wait a bit and get the whole thing? Either way you won't get it just yet because I want to make sure everything is OK before I let you rip it to shreds! Lol!

Antidote
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Posted: 18th Nov 2006 17:38
1st section of tutorial pl0x .

TEH_CODERER
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Posted: 18th Nov 2006 22:39
OK. 1 vote for that then. If no one else votes then I'll release the 1st section as soon as possible. Bear in mind that in terms of gameplay time that is hardly anything.

Flindiana Jones
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Posted: 19th Nov 2006 01:03
I say whole thing.

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Xenocythe
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Posted: 19th Nov 2006 04:42
I say release something that you think will 'wow' us

And I'm completely sure your capable of that.


TEH_CODERER
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Posted: 19th Nov 2006 11:00
@Xenocythe - Thanks. Bearing in mind it is the first demo and just a tutorial level I'm not sure it will wow you but hopefully you will think it worthwhile to carry on. Shall I take that as a vothe for whole thing then?

1st Part
1 vote

Whole Thing
1.5/2 votes

Well I'll keep working regardless as the whole thing will have to be made at some point. I'm going to start on a level editor now. Up until this point I haven't really needed one but now I'll use it to add traps and stuff. More news soon.

TEH_CODERER
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Posted: 19th Nov 2006 12:06
Well I'm now 587 lines of code into the level editor and I've just realised how close christmas is! This will have to go on the backburner a little whilst I make a game or games for my family. I won't stop on this altogether but progress will slow. Sorry.

Xenocythe
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Posted: 19th Nov 2006 17:59
Lol, its ok. That's actually a good idea. Making games for your family for christmas


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