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3 Dimensional Chat / Fantasy Pack Progress (and suggestions)

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bond1
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Posted: 2nd Dec 2006 08:59 Edited at: 2nd Dec 2006 09:37
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Many of you know that I'm working on a Fantasy Pack for FPSC, particulary aimed to take advantage of x10's features. I'm posting my progress up to this point for any comments or suggestions on things you would want to see.

I'm billing this as a "Fantasy" pack rather than a historically accurate "medieval" pack so I can take some liberties with weapons. I want to include things like a crossbow and perhaps a slingshot. But also perhaps some fictional weapons like ornate pistols/rifles. Of course I plan to include melee attacks for many of the characters.

Jon Fletcher, I saw in another thread that you had planned to create a similar pack. I think it would be GREAT if we could cooperate and both make a pack in this genre. Let's face it, there's only so much you can cram in a pack sold for 20 bucks. If we both made complementary packs then one could make a decent fantasy-based game.

Some pictures:
Peasant girl


Peasant Man


Troll


Dwarf (WIP)


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"Your mom went to college."
My FPSC stuff at http://www.hyrumark.com
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Reality Forgotten
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Posted: 2nd Dec 2006 09:27
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Looking very ncie man!

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Smitho
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Posted: 2nd Dec 2006 10:44 Edited at: 2nd Dec 2006 10:47
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Alright bond,
Great work as always... Nice and clean designs...
So you're after weapons and characters, right?

Characters to think about:
Elf, Goblin, Giant Spider?, Human City Guards (Armored up), Horse, Maybe a wierd Elemantal thing like below...



Weapons:
Double axe, Bow and Arrow, Sword and shield (Left click to swing, right click to block if possible?), Magic staff (Maybe make a blue light or something and fire that... You could use the RPG's system...)

Edit, The peasant blokes feet look slightly un-natural...They are perfectly symmetrical, where-as they should be more like the Dwarfs - Have them pointing slight different angles. Left Foot> \/ <Right Foot.

Hope to see more work like those!
Dan

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bond1
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Posted: 2nd Dec 2006 11:08
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Great suggestions Smitho...the giant spider is a popular request. So one way or another I'll have to include a giant spider.

Great suggestion on the Magic Staff, melee weapons aren't ideal with FPSC, so that's a great idea for a projectile weapon.

And I'm looking for ALL suggestions, not just characters and weapons. What kind of segments and entities would you like to see?

By the way, the peasant guys feet will be in a more natural position when he is rigged.

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FredP
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Posted: 2nd Dec 2006 11:14
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Quote: "particulary aimed to take advantage of x10's features"


Are you going to be able to use this pack if you can't switch to x10 right away?
I guess the question I am asking is will this pack work with the current FPSC.
I am aware that everything will eventually move to x10 but I am hoping that if TGC releases things like this that they can be made compatible for both.

http://www.wembley1967.com
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bond1
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Posted: 2nd Dec 2006 11:26
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Yes Fred it will sitll work with the current FPSC. I'll probably release it with both "high-spec" and "low-spec" versions included. The high-spec versions rely heavily on shaders. For the low spec versions I'll probably have to lower the poly count a bit and "bake in" all the effects from the shaders into a single texture.

So bottom line, yes, they'll work for both versions. Much the same way the sci-fi characters included can be used with shaders or without.

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FredP
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Posted: 2nd Dec 2006 11:44
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That's good to hear.

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Bloodeath 6 6 6
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Posted: 2nd Dec 2006 18:04
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most peasents wont look that nice, theyd be all in ripped and tathered clothing...im a huge history buff, and those peasents look way too clean

You'll Know When You See It.

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Urlforce Studios
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Posted: 2nd Dec 2006 18:43
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^ like he said, make 'em ugly, no one wants to hack up pretty girls, unless your aiming for a stalker breeding ground.

He said, "You drink when you're lonely." No I drink when I want!
He said, "You'll never be sober." Sure. Why would I want that?
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phil17
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Posted: 2nd Dec 2006 19:03
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Loving your models so far, and I agree that the clothing should be more tattered and worn.
suggestions? Well village's, castle's and so on are popular with a fantasy game...and some variations would be nice (within the textures).
Again for the models, variations of textures would be nice too stop the game looking bland with only 2 peasents.

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Conjured Entertainment
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Posted: 2nd Dec 2006 20:49 Edited at: 2nd Dec 2006 20:58
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AWESOME!
THESE CHARACTERS LOOK FANTASIC!!!


Quote: "Of course I plan to include melee attacks for many of the characters."

THANK YOU!!!!!!
PLEASE PLEASE make the troll and dwarf melee characters.


I had a brain fart when Jon suggested I wait for your models in your pack.
I had forgot that you did release a pack through TGC (#4).
That is the only model pack I have bought so far.
For some reason I though he was suggesting buying it outside TGC.
Ooops, my bad.

Quote: "melee weapons aren't ideal with FPSC"

Now, I'm confused.
You just said you were including melee characters.
Please stick to that idea that melee in FPSC is a good thing.
I know it is difficult to do , but some of us need it desperatly.


I am glad to hear that you are planning melee characters.
You know what I suggested for themes, etc. in Jon's thread so I won't repeat myself.

When can we expect this???


Quote: "Jon Fletcher, I saw in another thread that you had planned to create a similar pack. I think it would be GREAT if we could cooperate and both make a pack in this genre."


I second that.

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Jon Fletcher
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Posted: 2nd Dec 2006 21:12 Edited at: 2nd Dec 2006 22:01
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very nice characters so far, great to see the jump into normal and spec' mapping!!

Quote: "I saw in another thread that you had planned to create a similar pack. I think it would be GREAT if we could cooperate and both make a pack in this genre. Let's face it, there's only so much you can cram in a pack sold for 20 bucks. If we both made complementary packs then one could make a decent fantasy-based game."


you mean develop the same pack or split jobs?

i see you intend to create weapon models along with the characters, which doesnt really leave much....except scenery of that era...hmm

but back on track, some nice models, the high poly versions look a tad smooth and could have a bit more detail in places, but great work!

p.s) what program are you using for you high poly sculpts?


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FredP
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Posted: 2nd Dec 2006 21:16
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Bond also did Model Pack 2.

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Urlforce Studios
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Posted: 2nd Dec 2006 21:49
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Weapons on the ai meleers would have to be built into the model, not too hard... If you got really tricky you could change the animation a bit so each weapon has it's own attack scripts so the melee animations arent all alike.

He said, "You drink when you're lonely." No I drink when I want!
He said, "You'll never be sober." Sure. Why would I want that?
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Benjamin A
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Posted: 2nd Dec 2006 22:21
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Very cool, as usual Bond1

My request for a fantasy pack would be when it comes to creatures, a giant spider and a giant scorpion really should be in it.

As for weapons, a crossbow would be cool also. I've got one, but it isn't animated.

Quote: "Jon Fletcher, I saw in another thread that you had planned to create a similar pack. I think it would be GREAT if we could cooperate and both make a pack in this genre. Let's face it, there's only so much you can cram in a pack sold for 20 bucks. If we both made complementary packs then one could make a decent fantasy-based game."


Since I did release a fantasy pack first I think you guys should cooperate with me and make complementary packs for my pack, then one could really make a decent fantasy-based game

I'm still sorry to see that none of you were able to help me out, but all of this will be a great addition to my pack.

http://www.gamefun4u.nl/index.html
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bond1
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Posted: 3rd Dec 2006 00:42
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Thanks for the comments so far, ok the consensus is to dirty up the peasants, I can do that.

@Conjured: Don't worry, there will be good melee included. The pack probably won't be done until around March, hopefully by the time x10 is released.

@Benjamin: Yes, I definitely would like to work around your pack, making things that would complement it rather than compete.

@Jon Flectcer: I mean each develop our own pack on the same theme. But cooperate so we don't have identical items.

For the high poly, I'm using the beta version of Silo, continuing my boycott of ZBrush. Believe it or not though, most of the high poly was done in max, then exported to Silo for some of the organic details as seen on the troll. Yes they are a tad smooth, but I've found out (the hard way) that very small details don't translate well on a normal map. Per Lee's suggestion I'm now using 2048x2048 map sizes, and for example some of the detail on the shoulder pads of the dwarf became pixelated on the normal map, I had to redo my UV layout to give it more room. I'm finding that the big details make the most impact. Although I might try adding in more detail to the normals in photoshop after it's all said and done.

What do you think about making a similar pack?

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My FPSC stuff at http://www.hyrumark.com
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Jon Fletcher
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Posted: 3rd Dec 2006 01:14 Edited at: 3rd Dec 2006 03:54
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i would love to do it, i have been wanting to create some fantasy creatures for a long time now, but im not sure whether we will run into the same char's or not, so im wondering whether it would be best for me to stay away from them and focus on something else

unless you want to do char's and i, creatures, i.e rats, goblins, spiders, imps, weird wretch type creatures etc?

but in turn i would also be staying away from the creatures with more of a human influenced physical structure, your troll for example...

though if you have planned to make even those creatures as well, perhaps i could do weapons...

really, its just a question of what scraps are left for me

edit:

if it is any consolation, i have already started on the basics of some creatures, for instance, here is a wire of a goblin character i am working on, shield integrated.



edit 2:

it seems i have gone and stretched the page, sorry!

edit 3:

image updated


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bond1
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Posted: 3rd Dec 2006 06:23 Edited at: 3rd Dec 2006 06:26
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See, this is what I'm talking about. You already have an excellent start for a goblin, so I won't even think of making one now if yours is destined for FPSC. When you look at the scope of most fantasy games, there's a HUGE amount of characters and assets so neither of us would be left with "scraps".

I won't push the issue, but looking at your other characters, this is right up your alley. I think there's enough fantasy content to be made that we could both make full-featured packs with weapons, characters, entities, etc. that don't overlap.

Honestly, right now I'm flying by the seat of my pants as far what to make, so I'm just hitting all the typical fantasy stereotypes, if you want to "divvy up" content then we could both have a clear direction to go from here.

@Benjamin: Could you post a list of what is included in your pack?

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Conjured Entertainment
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Posted: 3rd Dec 2006 07:10
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Quote: "@Conjured: Don't worry, there will be good melee included. The pack probably won't be done until around March, hopefully by the time x10 is released."

Excellent thanks!

Quote: "@Jon Flectcer: I mean each develop our own pack on the same theme. But cooperate so we don't have identical items."

Right on man, that's what I'm talkin about.

Quote: "if it is any consolation, i have already started on the basics of some creatures, for instance, here is a wire of a goblin character i am working on, shield integrated."

Now that's low poly and I love it!!!
No way he would slow down any Frame Rates, and he has a shield.
WOOHOO!

Quote: "Honestly, right now I'm flying by the seat of my pants as far what to make, so I'm just hitting all the typical fantasy stereotypes, if you want to "divvy up" content then we could both have a clear direction to go from here."

Draw straws for my barbarian.

Quote: " think there's enough fantasy content to be made that we could both make full-featured packs with weapons, characters, entities, etc. that don't overlap."

You guys getting together on ideas and not overlapping not only makes both your packs better, but helps the community emensely.

I am so glad to see this going on.
THIS IS GREAT!

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Benjamin A
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Posted: 3rd Dec 2006 09:45
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Quote: "@Benjamin: Yes, I definitely would like to work around your pack, making things that would complement it rather than compete."


Cool. I offered TGC to work with you on the pack, but they declined. They stated my pack wasn't the quality they're looking for, but I guess they never really looked well enough at their own model pack 3. I offered them to give the link to the pack, so they can have a look at it, but they didn't want that, so I'm not sure how they can really see what the pack is all about, found their answer to my offer kind of strange. But I'm happy you're coing to completent, that's awesome!

Hopefully you and Jon can work out things and then all of us have complementary packs, paving the way for some awesome fantasy games!

http://www.gamefun4u.nl/index.html
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Jon Fletcher
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Posted: 3rd Dec 2006 15:17 Edited at: 3rd Dec 2006 15:20
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Quote: "so I'm just hitting all the typical fantasy stereotypes, if you want to "divvy up" content then we could both have a clear direction to go from here.
"


hopefully that will give me a better sense of what i must do,

my main worry was that we might be developing the same things, i'll continue to go on making some 'rare' creature models then

p.s) i never really noticed or said anything before, but perhaps the troll looks a bit too happy?


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phil17
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Posted: 3rd Dec 2006 16:12
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Are you both making seperate packs?

When I step into this library, I cannot understand why I ever step out of it.
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Luke314pi
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Posted: 3rd Dec 2006 16:20
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This is really awesome that you guys are collaborating on the content of these packs. Once they are both finished, along with Benjamin's pack we will have a TON of fantasy related entities. I am excited!

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Linik
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are you going to make these free, please do it, for those like me who cant affourd model packs.

oh and i have a idea, make things like guards which have a script to attack you if you attack a peasent, with these models you can make a great game like oblivion!

please make it free i been looking for a medevil model pack for almost 3 months but i couldnt find one, Thanks for listioning,
-linik

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Smitho
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Posted: 3rd Dec 2006 19:51
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@Linik
Dont be a fool... If TGC doesnt pick this up as MP6 (They totally should...) Bond will be charging...

As for other suggestions...
Skyboxes (if you can make them...):
Countryside - Random castles, mountains and forests in the distance.
City - Castle walls, towers, siege equipment etc.
Evil place - Red skies, volcanoes, Gizas of fire (Might be worth talking to butters, to animate them)

Weapons -
As said before... Staffs (Fire, ice and lightning variations)
Enchanted swords (If poss, maybe add glows to certain swords, for example.)

Characters -
As said before, Guards (I think liniks idea is too complex for FPSC...) Perhaps make a script for them to wander around, without waypoints, if one doesnt already exist... Im sure that would be simple.
A King/Queen set?
Hooded Bloke, like Aragorn when he is first seen in the Tavern in LOTR Fellowship~.

Dungeon Props -
Chains (Press enter to fix to wall, like the provided lights)
Barred windows, Barred doors (Animate them to swing open, like the lav in mp2 i think it is) Chests/Boxes, Rags for floor (Prison Bed)

City props -
Market Stall (http://www.itisnet.com/jpg/taka2000/indonesia/yogjakarta/stall_yogyakarta_java_1.jpg)
Pillars, City walls, Turrets, Siege Equipment.

Ive got so many ideas, Most of which im sure wouldnt be used, since there would be way too much to do!
If you need any particular ideas, drop me a line at my email!

Dan

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Benjamin A
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Posted: 3rd Dec 2006 22:20
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Smitho, did you check out the fantasy pack that is available already? A lot of what you ask for has been created already: http://www.gamefun4u.nl/page17.html

A King/Queen set would be great indeed.

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Jon Fletcher
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Posted: 3rd Dec 2006 23:00
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Quote: "I don't want to hijack the "Jon Fletcher cuddle thread" any further...sorry Jon!"


i think i deserve a quick hijack for that comment in the showcase forums, haha

while we are on the boundary of utilizing X10's features, i may aswell show you a recent sculpt for a ogre character i was going to include in the pack, not mapped on yet, when half way through the high res, i found this thread, and the troll, a magnificant example of how i recently wasted my time, just decided to finish the rest off today



so in advance, could you tell me what character you are going to do next/currently doing so we dont run into the same things?


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Smitho
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Posted: 3rd Dec 2006 23:21
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Quote: "Smitho, did you check out the fantasy pack that is available already?"


Nah man, The suggestions arent for what I want to see in the pack.. I have no need for a fantasy pack, as of yet...
I was just bringing up some ideas of what some people may appreciate

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Conjured Entertainment
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Posted: 4th Dec 2006 00:02
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Quote: "p.s) i never really noticed or said anything before, but perhaps the troll looks a bit too happy?"

Why wouldn't he be happy?
He's see some fresh meat for lunch. (you)
He's musing because he knows you don't stand a chance against him.

Quote: "...i found this thread, and the troll, a magnificant example of how i recently wasted my time, just decided to finish the rest off today "

DUDE!
That is hardly a waste of time... please finish him.
There's nothing wrong with having more than one troll.

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Linik
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Posted: 4th Dec 2006 00:09
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the ogre is more like an orc (jons) so id say continue it. amd why would you flush such a good model down the toilet?

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bond1
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Posted: 4th Dec 2006 01:11 Edited at: 4th Dec 2006 01:19
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Yeah call yours an ogre, orc, whatever. And I'll call mine a troll, we need 'em all.

You have a grittier style than me, you're more Oblivion while I'm more Zelda.

Well this week I'll finish off the Dwarf, and I want to start on a Wizard next. Other characters I'd like to do are a Knight, Armored Guard, Warrior (barbarian), and Elf, King and Queen. If you've started on any of these let me know, or if you're just DYING to make on of these let me know too.

Otherwise let me know of any other ideas you might have. I'm thinking that about 10-12 characters per pack is good to keep on par with the other packs, with the rest comprising of segments, a few weapons, and entities.

EDITf course if you want your pack to be heavy on the weapons that's cool too. There's a lot content to throw around.

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Nickydude
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Posted: 4th Dec 2006 01:18
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Take a look here: http://www.advancedfightingfantasy.com/. Your models all look fantastic by the way


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Jon Fletcher
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Posted: 4th Dec 2006 02:37
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thats good, i was thinking more of creatures you would come across in dungeons and woodlands, so i wasnt planning anything like kings, queens, peasants etc

10+ char/creatures is also what i was aiming for, and about 10 weapons and a bunch of segments and 'dungeon entities'

i was also going to work on a sort of evil necromancer, but that shouldnt be close to your wizard


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Nickydude
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Posted: 4th Dec 2006 02:58
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Dungeoneering would be fantastic! I was a big Dungeon & Dragons fan and certainly look forward to that Jon!!


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Linik
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I have 2 of those books, they are really good, geeky, but good.

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fpsmaster
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Posted: 4th Dec 2006 05:28
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how about a centaur?

Everybody has a photographic memory. Some just don't have film.
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bond1
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Posted: 4th Dec 2006 05:36 Edited at: 4th Dec 2006 06:27
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Cool Jon, although I'll probably make a few more creature characters too, but I'll definitely check with you before I start anything on my own, so we don't end up with duplicates.

I'll post my progress around the first of each month. Do you have any idea when you might be able to complete your pack? We obviously don't have to have them done at the same time, so I'm just wondering. I'm striving for around March, but real-life has a habit of delaying things (holidays/birthdays etc.), so you know how that goes...

Have you normal mapped any of your characters yet?

Also, there's a few things I'd like to discuss privately, I'll send you an email.

And thanks for the comments so far everyone, I'm listening to all your suggestions...

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filya
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Posted: 4th Dec 2006 07:00
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bond and jon!
so far I have restrained myself from buying a single pack, but these are 2 packs you are going to make me finally buy when they get out

-- game dev is fun...but taking up too much time --
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Jon Fletcher
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Posted: 4th Dec 2006 11:29 Edited at: 4th Dec 2006 11:33
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Quote: "Have you normal mapped any of your characters yet?"


yep, nothing very impressive to show however, merely body limb tests, mostly heads, but the workflow is solid

i have no idea when i am going to complete the pack though, i too tend to have a rough estimate, yet always delayed by me being lazy, ill, holidays, birthdays and so on.

especially with christmas coming up!


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bond1
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Posted: 4th Dec 2006 12:18 Edited at: 4th Dec 2006 12:24
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Quote: "yep, nothing very impressive to show however, merely body limb tests, mostly heads, but the workflow is solid "


Cool, I don't know what you're using as your baker, but if you're using max I just discovered that turning on supersampling using "adaptive halton" will give MUCH better normal maps, getting rid of a lot of pixelation in the smaller areas. And makes things look a lot cleaner when viewed up close.

Bad thing is that it increases the render time like a mofo. Just tried my dwarf and it took about a minute without supersampling, but about 10 minutes with supersampling on to render the normal map. I'll probably just leave it off until I know my cage is set up perfectly.

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Jon Fletcher
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Location: Taunton, UK
Posted: 4th Dec 2006 15:15
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yep, im using max to bake my normal maps, then i take it into photoshop, clean anything if needed, perhaps smoothing etc. and also running greyscale patterns under the nvidia normal map filter and overlaying them to the normal map, much easier than sculpting fine details, which i only really do for organic objects.

i'll try supersampling when i get a chance. render time has always been annoying for me anyway.


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Linik
18
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Joined: 2nd May 2006
Location: at my computer
Posted: 4th Dec 2006 15:59
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As you would have guested i am extremely bored, and i also wanted to say that ill help make some models if you want.

i will read the Blender tutorials if i need to, and there is one catch, i have to get the model pack for free.

ill make the weapons because i aint that good at monsters.

if the stuff i make turn out good enough i may make my own Fantasy pack. so that means you would have 4 fantasy packs to select from! talk about a deal.

P.S. Mine would be free! i dont want money all i want is credit.

-Linik

www.futurecast.co.nr
we know the true meaning of old style games!
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Benjamin A
19
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Joined: 31st Oct 2005
Location: The Netherlands
Posted: 4th Dec 2006 16:14
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Hey.... stop highjacking this thread

http://www.gamefun4u.nl/index.html
GameFun4U, the ultimate funtainment. Cool Games and Resources for your own games.
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Jon Fletcher
19
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Joined: 7th May 2005
Location: Taunton, UK
Posted: 4th Dec 2006 17:15
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Quote: "Hey.... stop highjacking this thread "


yeh! thats my job!


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bond1
19
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Joined: 27th Oct 2005
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Posted: 4th Dec 2006 18:28
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Your mom hijacks threads.

----------------------------------------
"Your mom goes to college."
My FPSC stuff at http://www.hyrumark.com
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SpyDaniel
18
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Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 4th Dec 2006 18:43
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Linik, you just basically said your crap at modelling, so who is going to pay for your pack, when we can buy Bonds or Jons pack, which will have models 100 times better than yours?

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Jon Fletcher
19
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Joined: 7th May 2005
Location: Taunton, UK
Posted: 4th Dec 2006 19:32
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Quote: "Your mom hijacks threads."


lol! you and your mom jokes


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Linik
18
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Joined: 2nd May 2006
Location: at my computer
Posted: 4th Dec 2006 20:34
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i beleive i said i was giving it away for free. oh well you guys are right, i shouldnt start a model pack until i understand it more.

P.S. I Got an idea for bonds pack. You should make a Ent, that dosnt move but attacks you when you get neer, it would probably give a shock to players because it will look the same as other trees.

Sorry for trying to help ,
-Linik

www.futurecast.co.nr
we know the true meaning of old style games!
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FredP
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18
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Joined: 27th Feb 2006
Location: Indiana
Posted: 4th Dec 2006 22:04
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My mom does NOT hijack threads...
She is computer illiterate.

http://www.wembley1967.com
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Linik
18
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Posted: 4th Dec 2006 22:06
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so is mine

www.futurecast.co.nr
we know the true meaning of old style games!
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