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3 Dimensional Chat / Fantasy Pack Progress (and suggestions)

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Luke314pi
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Posted: 20th Dec 2006 13:26
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He looks amazing!

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bond1
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Posted: 20th Dec 2006 14:30
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Thank you.

Quote: "Will you work on some environments for these?"


Yes, I'll be working on new environments too, but I'm making all the characters first. Then I'll make the things they "live" in.

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"Your mom goes to college."
My FPSC stuff at http://www.hyrumark.com
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bond1
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Posted: 20th Dec 2006 15:54
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The bottom half of the character was really bugging me, the hair looked to "muddy". I've sinced changed it and it looks a lot better I think. Anyone else think so too? I'll post another pic later.

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SpyDaniel
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Posted: 20th Dec 2006 16:06
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You've done a good job on all these fantasy models Mark. Ill be buying the pack once it is out. Hopfully fpsc will be able to handle outdoor scenes some time soon, which will make your pack very useful.

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filya
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Posted: 20th Dec 2006 16:36
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excellent stuff there bond!! Looks very good. Can't believe you guys do this good with 4500 polys

Quote: "the hair looked to "muddy" "

yup, I guess it's because there's too much hair and it's all shiny. But I am sure you know better

-- game dev is fun...but taking up too much time --
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Linik
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Posted: 20th Dec 2006 16:57
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amazing, but i aint too sure how the creators of the narnia movie are going to react.


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SpyDaniel
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Posted: 20th Dec 2006 17:03
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Quote: "but i aint too sure how the creators of the narnia movie are going to react."


They wont react, because these models have nothing to do with narnia, these are all Marks work. He didnt copy narnias characters to every detail, he designed them him self.

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Locrian
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Posted: 20th Dec 2006 17:03
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There were pans far before that wanna be Lord of the rings movie(the book of Lion the witch and the wardrobe was much better), and I don't think theres anyone left from greek mythology to file class action against Bond.
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Jon Fletcher
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Posted: 20th Dec 2006 18:08 Edited at: 20th Dec 2006 18:09
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looks very nice!

in fact, you posted the main reason why my progress is very slow on my half of these packs, i cant correctly display the real time DX9 shader on my models, thus i cant really test out the normal maps without having to load up a game engine every couple seconds.

im waiting until i buy my new laptop with a decent GPU (should be a couple days after Christmas) and then i can start actually viewing my normal maps on the flow...

i must say the tail looks a little far down, as if its coming out of his crack

looking forward to seeing that wizard!


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bond1
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Posted: 20th Dec 2006 21:01 Edited at: 20th Dec 2006 21:01
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I tried a good old fashioned photo-ref for the hair, and I think it looks better.



Yes Higgins, I also hope that FPSC can handle a decent outdoor level, I know it won't be Oblivion, but hopefully the new directx 10 cards will be able to brute force it.

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Silvester
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Posted: 20th Dec 2006 21:14
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and if outside doesnt work,then we change hitory a little



uhm...OK,im crazy.

Nice work BTW.one pack that i will certainly buy!(Fantasy freak...)

...No Signature here...
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tyrano man
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Posted: 21st Dec 2006 11:51
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Brilliant model! But i think some people's computers wont be able to hold that poly count, as 4500 is like 1000 polys too much.

gw:tyrano man-lvl 20 E/Mo
tyrano man kill-Lvl 8 W/Mo
rs:tyrano man 2-lvl 68
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Luka38
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Posted: 21st Dec 2006 19:11
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Im new to whole game making, i have only made a couple 2d games so can anyone tell me what is the program with what u made these models.

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bond1
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Posted: 21st Dec 2006 20:10 Edited at: 21st Dec 2006 20:12
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Quote: "as 4500 is like 1000 polys too much."


4500 won't be a problem at all for the next generation of graphics cards. That said, I will probably release these with 2 LOD versions included, for the current version of FPSC as well as X10. I could easily shave off at least 1000 polys with little visual impact.

Most of the "excess" polys are in the facial area, and you'll want that detail, if and when FPSC ever supports lip-syncing.

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bond1
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Posted: 21st Dec 2006 20:16 Edited at: 21st Dec 2006 20:17
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Quote: "im waiting until i buy my new laptop with a decent GPU (should be a couple days after Christmas) and then i can start actually viewing my normal maps on the flow..."


Waiting for the after-Christmas sales, eh? Smart guy Working with shaders in mind is SO much fun. It's cool to be able to model details that before had to go in the diffuse. As I mentioned to Locrian earlier, my diffuse maps look ridiculously un-detailed for the most part.

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indi
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Posted: 22nd Dec 2006 13:40
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Bond1 , your faun is very impressive mate.

I can also see that higgins has crept into this area causing trouble, he's earnt himself more noob slappage for his stupidity.

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tyrano man
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Posted: 22nd Dec 2006 14:02
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kwl i didn't know that you were doing a version for X10, so yeah a current gen version also would be nice, for use in the current FPSC.

gw:tyrano man-lvl 20 E/Mo
tyrano man kill-Lvl 8 W/Mo
rs:tyrano man 2-lvl 68
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Zilla
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Posted: 22nd Dec 2006 15:16 Edited at: 22nd Dec 2006 15:17
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@bond1

cool! very very impressive!

i am currently working with normal maps as well and the effect in a 3d-program is great and saves a lot of render-time. but when i make my lowpoly-models fpsc-ready (including the _N.dds normal map that worked fine in the modeling program) and import them into fpsc, the effect is almost gone. in the 3d program, the normal-mapped model is full of detail and smooth curves (like it were in a hypernurbs) and in fpsc it looks like the lowpoly model without a normal map.

i was also experimenting with existing fpsc-models like aiko and loaded several versions (with and without their custom normal maps) into fpsc and i can hardly find a difference between these versions.

can you show me screenshot where i can see clearly thsi "normal-map effect"?
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bond1
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Posted: 22nd Dec 2006 17:22
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Quote: "but when i make my lowpoly-models fpsc-ready (including the _N.dds normal map that worked fine in the modeling program) and import them into fpsc, the effect is almost gone"


Do you have the shader specified in the FPE file? For example, characters use "bumpbone.fx".

Normal-map shaders in the current version of FPSC don't always "pop" the way they do in your modelling program. They are dependent on lights. Lee has told me that he only used 1 light for the shaders in the current FPSC, for performance reasons. I think he's using 3 lights for the shaders in X10, so it should really look great!

The normal maps with the sci-fi characters like Aiko seem to use them for smaller details rather than large sweeping areas (like all the muscles in my faun), so you really have to look close to notice.

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Zilla
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Posted: 22nd Dec 2006 20:12 Edited at: 22nd Dec 2006 20:15
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Quote: "Do you have the shader specified in the FPE file? For example, characters use "bumpbone.fx". "


i used bumpbone.fx on a character and it dissapeared! just its shadow could be seen!? oops...

do you know the differences between the fpsc-shaders?
i compared them on the same model and the same maps and could hardly find differences between most of them.

bump
bumpbone
bumpcubereflectalpha
bumpent
cubeent
cubemap
fastbone
illuminationent
illuminationmap
ripple

Quote: "rather than large sweeping areas (like all the muscles in my faun)"

i'm looking forward to see an ingame screenshot of this faun


Quote: ""Your mom goes to college.""

i could be your mom.
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bond1
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2006 00:51 Edited at: 23rd Dec 2006 00:53
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Here the next one - a wizard. This one might be my most ambitious character yet.

I'm especially proud of the high poly max work, around the belts and satchel. It's fun working through the process, chamfering edges and anticipating how the turbosmooth modifier will affect it. Then finally sculpting the organic details.

Low poly, 5800 triangles, might be a little ambitious, but I'd rather push the envelope and have to remove polys, rather than the other way around:



And the high poly, I always get a little giddy when I first see the normal map on the low poly, and I can't wait to see this one!


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Jon Fletcher
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2006 02:51 Edited at: 23rd Dec 2006 03:44
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Nice i like the sag on the eyelids and other facial muscles

the back of the head where the hair is clumped together doesn't look too natural, i see what your going for, it might be my eyes...

...Ive got some catching up to do.

still waiting until i can test normal maps in real time more fluently, i am currently dawdling around sculpting, on the plus side Ive certainly gotten better at making the human head:

(sorry for the hijack, thought you might be interested)



Ive got a low poly version as well, which i will be using as a generic head on alot of my models, its surprising how easily you can alter the shape to a completely different looking person (even creatures), then put it down back to level 0 subdivision and clean up the mess a bit, its certainly altered my work flow alot.



of course there will still be the time where i will have to build from scratch, but for quantitative work such as model packs (not that its lacking quality anyway) it is a very good work flow

im going to be doing this with alot of body parts, or plainly a whole body

hell, Ive even been bored enough to start learning lighting/rendering, got into some HDR lighting, massive improvement in realism, i don't want to hog this thread too much so i wont think about posting a pic...unless you want me to


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bond1
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2006 05:55 Edited at: 23rd Dec 2006 08:53
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The hair in the back looks strange now, but I think it will make more sense when it's textured, I'm going for a large mane of hair swept upwards toward the hat.

Cool heads, is it just me or does Zbrush (right?) models have a distinctive look to them, almost like cast-iron? Is all that "roughness" on the face intentional, or that just a Zbrush artifact? Not that it looks bad at all, it just seems that a lot of Zbrush models I've seen have that look about them that I don't see with Silo or Mudbox.

Yeah I'm all about re-using stuff now. Spending a full 10-14 work days on a character is simply a luxury I don't have, I do this in my spare time, so I HAVE to work smart.

I usually shape my "generic" head in max first using soft-selection to get the general shape, same for the body etc. Then I'll add in the non-organic high poly detail that the turbosmooth modifier can bring out. I like doing my first subdividing in max, because I have more options that way, like subdividing by smoothing groups. Then I'll export and sculpt in the detail like clothing folds and wrinkles. I don't go to the extreme of modeling in pores and stuff, the model gets too dense and hard to work with and it's easier to overlay it with the NVidia filter, my new favorite miracale toy.

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My FPSC stuff at http://www.hyrumark.com
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Saker
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2006 12:51
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wow ... nice work ... keep it up....
may be i'm going to make some fantasy style models &^^
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Jonny Ree
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2006 13:58
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bond1: Very nice. I like the design of the character, and the mesh is really nice looking. Very clean you might be able to save in some polygons on the hair and facial hair though. As for the highpoly one; I would love to see some more folds, or rather a bit edgier folds. Try adding more under the arms as well as over and under the belt, also where the cloth is tucked into the gauntlets.

Jon Fletcher: Hehe, the first one reminds me a bit of Evil Ash in the Evil dead movies, probably because of the chin. Bond1 mentioned something about the zBrush look. I disagree that other software does not have this problem, but it shows up a lot more in zbrush. You should try to keep your changes clean. Smooth out changes right after doing them.. that way you'll avoid the artifacts. This way you'll also have a lot more control over the fine details once you want to put them in. They look good though.

I'm no expert on this myself, just some thoughts.

Great work guys.


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bond1
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2006 17:20
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Thanks for the feedback Jonny Ree, I'm still very new to sculpting software, and I've barely gone beyond one subdivision. I agree about putting in some sharper folds, I'll give it a try.

If I remember reading correctly, you were one of the lucky bastards accepted into the Mudbox beta program. I tried, but wasn't accepted, although I enrolled pretty late. What is your opinion on it, is it worth it? I'm tempted, but I'm just wondering if it's worth 6x the price of Silo. I try not to be a software whore, and Silo was a steal, but it's really eating at me right now.

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"Your mom goes to college."
My FPSC stuff at http://www.hyrumark.com
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Trinity Pictures
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2006 18:43
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Hey, good luck with these packs guys! They're starting to look really great!

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Michael S
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2006 22:25
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Hey bond1 what program do you use to make your models?

Your signature has been erased by a mod because it's larger than 600x120
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Jonny Ree
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2006 23:14
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bond1: Mudbox is excellent, but I must admit my shoulders sank a bit once I saw the price. I'm not saying its not worth it, but I was hoping they would try to kick zBrush on pricing as well. Then there is Silo. How is Silo2 coming? I haven't got it myself, though I will buy Silo shortly to get to the Beta. Once Silo2 is stable, I don't believe Mudbox will be worth six times as much unless they add more features to it. Its still very simple to use and very performance efficient, and is my favorite software at the time. I'll make up my mind about buying it once I've been able to test out Silo2.


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Shaka
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Posted: 24th Dec 2006 01:14
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Hey those models look really good man!u should turn those in to fpsc as an offical model pack 7, that way people will have to buy it inorder to have it. Those are worth the money!

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bond1
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Posted: 24th Dec 2006 02:18
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Thanks, I'm hoping this will be one of the first model packs for FPSC X10, I'm really trying to make these models next-gen worthy!

Quote: "How is Silo2 coming?"


I don't have any complaints, although I don't stress-test it like I probably should. Getting the sculpted model out of Silo is kinda wierd, but it does the job. I bought it because I wanted to get into sculpting for normal maps, Mudbox wasn't available yet, and Zbrush was just too awkward with its goofy interface. I wanted something I could jump into right away, and I was up an running in minutes with Silo. I'll just stick with Silo since I already have it, somteimtes I just get caught up into wanting the latest and greatest.

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rolfy
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Posted: 1st Jan 2007 07:53
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I was thinking of buying Mudbox but I reckon I could get by with Zbrush.I know this is a little off topic but I've heard that Zbrush can produce artifacts in meshes on export,does this leave you with a lot of cleaning up to do and do your meshes import well into FPSC.
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bond1
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Posted: 4th Jan 2007 00:37
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Wizard is DONE! I'm really proud of the "old man" skin, liver spots and all! I hope it's ok that I post these like this, as soon as I can get my grubby hands on X10 I'll show them in FPSC. I'd be short changing myself if I showed these in the current version of FPSC, since they really make use of shaders.

Again, these aren't renders, these are shown under a dx9 shader:

Front view:


Closeup:


Side/back:


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Luke314pi
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Posted: 4th Jan 2007 00:54
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Wow! Very nice work on the texture!

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rolfy
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Posted: 4th Jan 2007 05:18 Edited at: 4th Jan 2007 05:19
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Great work!Love the texturing.I can see you captured this straight from the viewport,normal mapping ya gotta love it!
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Locrian
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Posted: 4th Jan 2007 06:08
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Greeeat looking model Bond. Nice detail in that face. So are you modeling exclusively for X10 now?

(side note: I never did find that darn suc max file)
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bond1
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Posted: 4th Jan 2007 07:27
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Thanks guys.

Quote: "So are you modeling exclusively for X10 now?"


No, these won't be exclusive to X10, they'll work just fine in the current version, they just won't quite have that visual "pop" that the X10 shaders can deliver. And that's why I'm not showing in-game screenshots right now. Showing viewport screengrabs best represents how the model will look in X10 for the time being. And I guess that's what I want to showcase about this new pack, how good they will look in X10.

I bought myself an NVIDIA 8800 as a Christams present to myself. And I'll be getting Vista when it's released. And as soon as TGC lets me purchase X10, I'll show actual in game screenies. Hopefully they'll have some sort of early adopter or beta test program so I can get my hands on it before an official release.

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Jon Fletcher
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Posted: 5th Jan 2007 02:59
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very nice

though the skin fold going across the nose in between the eyes looks a little weird, as if the nose is attached seperately, and maybe its just the perspective what with the hat and all, but his head seems to widen just above the brows, which i assume is the hair clumped togather, yet the skin is exposed in the bump

but very nice overall!


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Reality Forgotten
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Posted: 5th Jan 2007 09:40 Edited at: 5th Jan 2007 09:49
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Very nice work guys!

Regards,
RF

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FredP
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Posted: 5th Jan 2007 10:13
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I am moving this to the 3D Chat forum.

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rolfy
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Posted: 6th Jan 2007 22:08 Edited at: 6th Jan 2007 22:09
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Personally I think this has got to be some of the best modeling and texturing work I have seen in some time,makes my stuff look lame.
Your normal mapping is spot on and picking out small flaws is plain jealousy as that kind of thing is not going to be noticed at all by your average gamer,I know this just Jon privately ribbing ya but anyway!Thats what their for...games
I think that this may be the best place for you anyway Bond as your stuff is going to be wanted by more than just fpsc users,and I am sure when your finished with it all you will be letting it be seen in many different places.
Looking forward to seeing what else you come up with.
best rolfy.
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bond1
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Posted: 7th Jan 2007 06:53 Edited at: 7th Jan 2007 07:00
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Thanks rolfy. It's taken me a long time and a lot of work to get at the level I am now (and expensive software!). If you compare these new models to my characters from Model Pack 4, I think you'll agree these are miles ahead of those.

That's the reason I made this thread and posted large pictures, so people could pick at them (even the tiny details) and give suggestions. I need criticism, sitting alone in front of a computer making this stuff is lonely work, it really helps to have fresh eyes look at them.

I'm just a little disappointed that this got moved. This is going to be an official TGC model pack exclusively for FPSC, so it's not really appropriate for this forum. This will also be the first model pack that takes advantage of X10's new shaders, and that is what my screenshots are reflecting. I just thought the FPSC members would want to get involved with this pack, giving suggestions and seeing the progress, and having their say as to what is included.

I'm working on a really cool crusader/knight character right now, it's looking great and should be done in a few days. I'll post any further WIP's on my website until I can show actual X10 screenshots.

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Crazy Ninja
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Posted: 7th Jan 2007 08:21
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Sweet holy mother of pearls! Those are some uber fantastic models Bond! Your level of detail on both the models and the textures astound me. I also completely agree with you Bond. FPSC models, even if they are not finished, should not be in the 3D chat forums. Reason being, I really hate to be shown these models and then hear that they are only for FPSC. The mods are just tempting us with stuff we can't have (DBPro users).

Best of luck to you Bond and have an excellent modeling career.

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FredP
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Posted: 7th Jan 2007 11:47 Edited at: 7th Jan 2007 11:50
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Quote: "I'm just a little disappointed that this got moved. This is going to be an official TGC model pack exclusively for FPSC, so it's not really appropriate for this forum. This will also be the first model pack that takes advantage of X10's new shaders, and that is what my screenshots are reflecting."


I was waiting for someone to tell me this.
I pretty much figured this would be an official model pack for FPSC.
I will see what I can do...
If you want to contact one of the uber mods or Rich or RickV and ask to have this moved back to models and media you have my blessing.
My modly moving powers don't work outside the FPSC forums.
My apologies for any inconvinence this may have caused.

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 7th Jan 2007 14:58
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Can't believe I haven't seen this thread yet, that's all great stuff I must say.

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Roxas
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Posted: 7th Jan 2007 15:08
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Why this wouldn't be a pack to DBPRO x10 too?

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bond1
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Posted: 7th Jan 2007 17:03 Edited at: 7th Jan 2007 17:05
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@FredP: No hard feelings here. I know you guys do a heck of a job keeping those forums clean. I never really explicitly stated that this was going to be an official pack until now.


I would love for this pack to be available to DBPro users, but I'll have to talk to Rick Vanner about that. Selling media like this is tricky as far as licensing goes. Once you start offering a commercial license to everyone then the price seems to go way up. Probably why all the FPSC model packs are so cheap, since they are licensed for use in FPSC only. Maybe a separate version could be offered to DBPro users, I'd have to discuss it with RickV because it's not really my call.

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My FPSC stuff at http://www.hyrumark.com
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Roxas
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Posted: 7th Jan 2007 17:56
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Hmm yes.. but Dbpro using .x objects? You could sell them just as model pack to all things what can use .x?

I have no soul.. I nobody.. I have no heart.. I have felt in the darkness.. Im the darkness.. Whatever..
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Oddmind
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Posted: 7th Jan 2007 18:04
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nice looking stuff

The only thing is that your normal maps look very vague, this is because you only have middle level of details, just like painting a texture you have to go low detail all the way up to little marks on the beard.

if you do this I think they will be close to professional quality.

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bond1
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Posted: 11th Jan 2007 08:51
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If anyone's still following this thread, I've finished a crusader character. Nice and low poly, about 3300 tri's. So you should be able to have a bunch of these on screen at once. I'll have variations on the clothes too for variety.

Low poly+normal map under a directx shader:




Closeup:



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