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AppGameKit Classic Chat / App Game Kit V108 Beta 8 - Over 200 New Commands

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Cliff Mellangard 3DEGS
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Posted: 11th Nov 2012 22:45
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its the virtual buttons id it also holds in memory.
so if i click button one and after it button 2 so does it automaticly click button 1 also

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The Zoq2
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Posted: 11th Nov 2012 22:52
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Oh, you are talking about the virtual buttons, that could make things harder...
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Cliff Mellangard 3DEGS
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Posted: 12th Nov 2012 01:07
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I solved the bugs the hard way and have uploaded my game for validation

The multi touch worked like a charm

It whas only the virtual buttons that gave me an hard time

But i hard coded the touch screen to go to next screen with some screen cordinates and it worked.

Android 2.3 , ZTE Skate , 480x800 , 800 mhz , Samsung Galaxy Y , 240x320 , 832 mhz , Sony ericson arc 480x854 , 1 ghz
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Plystire
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Posted: 12th Nov 2012 07:31 Edited at: 12th Nov 2012 08:15
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[EDIT]

Nevermind... I have no clue why it's crashing now. I'll repost when I have more info.


~Plystire

A rose is only a rose until it is held and cherished -- then it becomes a treasure.
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BatVink
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Posted: 12th Nov 2012 12:43 Edited at: 12th Nov 2012 12:43
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108 Beta 3: We seem to have lost the ability to compose an image from numerous layers, and Get the image to a new one. In this screenshot, the bottom is 1083 Beta 2, the balls are made up of an image plus text overlaid. In the top half, the text is no longer captured in the Get.



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apocolyp4
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Posted: 12th Nov 2012 16:55
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Im starting to think ill not be able to release my game on time due to the beta breaking my game. Have they redone the compiler from scratch as simple things like declaring a variable with a value doesn't work. Also my game sometimes crashes when it starts (it never crashed using AppGameKit 1065 or 107). The Beta performance is terrible my game runs fine on a PlayBook when I compiled it using 1065, but now I get the occasional slowdown on my UltraBook with an i7 core processor!

Sorry about the rant its just frustrating rewriting lots of perfectly good code due to having to work around compiler bugs. I know its still a beta but it seams like the AppGameKit has been compromised to get the Freedom Engine up and running.
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The Zoq2
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Posted: 12th Nov 2012 17:23
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My thoughs exactly... Luckily though, my code worked for the most part.
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xCept
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Posted: 12th Nov 2012 17:30
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I had been developing my Ultrabook competition game using Beta 2 and just tried the new Beta 3 last night. Something with Beta 3 has really broken my game relating to the scale, position and rotation of sprites I use (I modify their attributes through a function including offset, scale and angle). I don't even know where to begin troubleshooting, but building the same code in beta 2 works flawlessly.
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apocolyp4
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Posted: 12th Nov 2012 17:32
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Anyone else having an issue with the virtual joystick. It works fine but when you let go and touch the screen again it still thinks that you are still moving the joystick, regardless where you touch the screen.

Heres a video of the issue
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Matty H
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Posted: 12th Nov 2012 17:43
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My game broke too, from using v1076.

I got it working, two issues:

1.

This line worked in 1076, does not work the same now it seems, I presume something to do with NOT. Easily worked around once found.

2.

This stopped detecting a few sprites that I update each loop just before this is called, very weird. Fixed by moving it to before I update those specific sprites, now works.

I thought there may be a small chance this may help someone. As far as I can tell, my game now works the same as 1076. Now I need to add the sensor stuff.

Changing underlying code(AGK) there is always a chance it will break any complex program(our games). It can't be completely avoided, change logs can help, or if TGC could not change commands where possible but instead add newer versions and list old commands as deprecated.

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Cliff Mellangard 3DEGS
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Posted: 12th Nov 2012 17:49
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Quote: "Anyone else having an issue with the virtual joystick. It works fine but when you let go and touch the screen again it still thinks that you are still moving the joystick, regardless where you touch the screen."


There is a bugg that clicks once at the old location when you click a new one.

I solved it by placing the mouse cursor with setrawmouseposition centered top middle when the user does any interaction with buttons or joystick.

My multi touch function works great
If you want it instead of the vr stick ?

Dont forget to run as administrator when test playing your game on the ultrabook!

I got wierd crashes and strange messages that the app wanted gps locations when i forgot .

I playtested and sent my game for validation last night.

Its still in validation so i have to see if they find any buggs?

I removed some of my gyro effects as it seam brooken?

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apocolyp4
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Posted: 12th Nov 2012 18:28
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Thank Cliff that fix it the vr stick works fine! The issues with the gyros is that your game needs to be running at least 120fps for them to work in real time, otherwise the sensor data lags behind.
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xCept
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Posted: 12th Nov 2012 18:33
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Well at least one of my issues is related to passing values stored in type objects through functions. This may be the same issue as others discussed earlier but I hadn't carefully read that discussion.

It doesn't happen in all instances, but often with Beta 3 values won't get passed properly if they are stored in a type/type array. One simple solution I found is to add +0 to each passed value that causes problems, this fixes whatever the problem is and the data is passed successfully as an integer/float. I assume creating temporary variables to store the type data and pass those variables to the functions would work as well. Unfortunately for me it'll take all day to pinpoint all of the problem lines in my code and fix this for Beta 3.
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The Zoq2
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Posted: 12th Nov 2012 18:34
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That's the same problem I have had, if the +0 thing works, it would be awesome
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Ancient Lady
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Posted: 12th Nov 2012 18:48
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xCept, there have frequently been issues with UDTs and arrays (all versions). The best way to get around it is to copy an array element to a single variable of the same type and then work with that variable. If you change values, remember to copy back to the original array entry.

This includes passing something into a function.

I don't know if they are working on this for Tier 1, it is an issue that has been mentioned before. The biggest problem is coming up with an example set of code that will reliably produce the issue every time.

It would not surprise me to see this exacerbated in v108<x>.

Cheers,
Ancient Lady
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Paul Johnston
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Posted: 13th Nov 2012 00:58
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I just tried compiling the T2 interpreter project included in the 1083 installer and it worked in VS2008, which is what I'm using for development. Lee compiled some VS2010 libs but I've not tested them.

I remember some incompatibility problems compiling VS2008 libs into a VS2010 project related to the "Platform tool set" option in VS2010 needing to be set to vc90, but even then I think VS2008 had to be installed for it to work.
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MrValentine
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Posted: 13th Nov 2012 01:30
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I intend to buy VS2012Pro, so I am hoping this is supported soon... instead of having to port a vs2010 project over and having to nail out bugs which I as a new VS user cannot work out thank you in advance

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bjadams
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Posted: 13th Nov 2012 10:51 Edited at: 13th Nov 2012 10:51
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I am using the vs2010 libs which worked fine on 1076.

The problem is not the libs, but there are some missing files, which your system has, but are not included in the Interpreter project.

Ancient Lady can give you the details
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Ancient Lady
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Posted: 13th Nov 2012 15:17
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Paul, the last set of v1076 VS projects all worked without VS2008 being installed or the vc90 setting (they use v100). It took a bit to get it there and then we were all happy.

Can you explain why there are two sets of libraries in the AGK\IDE\platform\windows\Lib directory? At that level there are three subdirectories - Debug, Release and VS2010. The VS2010 has a Debug and Release directory. Are the Debug/Release directories directly under Lib for VS2008?

When I linked using those directories, it produced only 5 missing links (but a lot of them). Linking using the VS2010 directory produces 128 linker errors.

Cheers,
Ancient Lady
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Matty H
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Posted: 13th Nov 2012 16:26
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Quote: "Is anyone else having issues with the new sensor update? The return values from the sensors are fine when SetSyncRate(0,0), but if you set the frame rate to 60fps for example the sensor values lag to the point that they can be seconds behind.

Update seems that is happens when you set SetSyncRate to less than 120 fps. So SetSyncRate(120, 0) if fine but all below is laggy. "


I have to run my game at over 200fps to get the inclinometer to respond properly, otherwise it lags behind and my game is unplayable.

I have been google-ing around and can't find anyone else complaining about this. I suspect it may be an AppGameKit issue? But it might not be.

Anyone have any information on this?

Running at 200+fps is not really a good solution since I am not guaranteed other machines may run that fast, it also has the fans going wild and is probably using lots of battery

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Paul Johnston
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Posted: 13th Nov 2012 16:43
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I've asked Lee to comment as he built the VS2010 libs, and did the sensor commands.
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Cliff Mellangard 3DEGS
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Posted: 13th Nov 2012 17:57 Edited at: 13th Nov 2012 17:58
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The end command seam strange sometimes?

Sometimes do i get a popup window in windows 8 telling me that my app have stopped working when using the end command?

Is it an win 8 bug or agk bug ?

Iam using tier 1 beta 3 with the windows sensor commands.

To show how random this is .

out of 30 test runs so do i get it 4 times.

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bjadams
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Posted: 13th Nov 2012 18:55
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Ancient lady, if you are using VS2010 you need to replace Debug and Release with the contents of the folders from VS2010.

Paul & Lee, does the latest T2 Windows beta 3 has sensors commands? If yes, then can we urgently have a working Interpreter project so that we can build a template from it? Thanks
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Ancient Lady
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Posted: 13th Nov 2012 20:18
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bjadams, I have always used the ones in the VS2010 directory. I just tried the other to see what would happen. And it was interesting that the number of linker errors was dramatically reduced.

Cheers,
Ancient Lady
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LeeBamber
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Posted: 13th Nov 2012 23:12
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I have been working on the Ultrabook sensor commands, and have selected (forced to select) VS2012 for compiling a special Windows 7 and above version of the Windows platform which allows touch and access to WinRT technology layers. This highlighted a glaring lack of certain files in the VS2010 project and ignored all the new 3D and hash commands, and a few other things. I have corrected this for BETA4 but I am working through the Ultrabook sensor tweaks right now. I can also confirm you need to run your Sync Rate at (0,0) (i.e. fast as possible) to get your app digesting the events from the Ultrabook sensors quickly so there is no lag. I tried reducing the events sent, but there are just too many, and for some reason the events executed are tied to the frame rate for some odd reason. I know it's not ideal, and some of your apps are fixed at 60fps rather than running using timer based machine indie code (which I do sometimes too). I will be looking at WHY the events are tied to the frame rate, and if it still eludes me, I will hack something so you get top sensor feedback with no lag at 60 fps. Sorry of this issue is affecting your competition entries, I am also in the same boat with my certificate (which I foolishly forgot to renew) so while I wait for my certificate I will make sure your accelerometers work for the next release of the Ultrabook Sensors zip sometime Wednesday.

Hogging the awesome since 1999
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bjadams
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Posted: 14th Nov 2012 00:10
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Lee, thanks for your great efforts.

Will we have a T2 sensors version by Wednesday or is that only aimed for T1?

I tried doing some sensors code myself, I can detect any sensor, but I am stuck when it comes to reading them, so if i have working AppGameKit commands I would get one big problem off my chest!

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Matty H
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Posted: 14th Nov 2012 00:15
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Thanks Lee, I really appreciate all the extra effort you guys are putting in to help us with our competition entries.

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Ancient Lady
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Posted: 14th Nov 2012 04:08 Edited at: 14th Nov 2012 04:09
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Thank you Lee.

I look forward to eventually creating some good Tier 2 templates built (and posted) for v108<x> (using VS2010, I hope).

Cheers,
Ancient Lady
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Brother
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Posted: 14th Nov 2012 07:47
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Thank you Lee for your efforts.

I bet i could use 3D in one or two month.

Good work AppGameKit Team !

Best regards
Brother

I am not english so xcuse my syntax, grammary or anything else wich could occure some ununderstanding
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xCept
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Posted: 16th Nov 2012 00:22
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Quote: "so while I wait for my certificate I will make sure your accelerometers work for the next release of the Ultrabook Sensors zip sometime Wednesday."

Thanks Lee, can we expect the new beta sometime yet this week?
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Duffer
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Posted: 16th Nov 2012 11:08
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@ Lee Bamber,

Any chance of AppGameKit exporting to .apk as simply and neatly as Freedom Engine does?

a long time dabbler with DBC and DBPro with no actual talent but lots of enthusiasm...
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Matty H
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Posted: 16th Nov 2012 16:21 Edited at: 16th Nov 2012 16:22
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Quote: "Thanks Lee, can we expect the new beta sometime yet this week? "


Would be good to have sensors fixed, if there is a fix.

I have taken the step of making my game consistent across different frame rates. I now run my game as fast as possible and the sensors work great on my ultrabook. I'm pretty sure this should not be necessary but it works so at least I can submit my game.

I can also update my input every 1/25th of a second, as long as the frame rate(sync rate) is high the sensors work just as good.

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xCept
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Posted: 16th Nov 2012 18:10
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Quote: "I have taken the step of making my game consistent across different frame rates. I now run my game as fast as possible and the sensors work great on my ultrabook. I'm pretty sure this should not be necessary but it works so at least I can submit my game."


In future projects I will have to do the same. I have been working on my game for the competition using a fixed 60 FPS and still have a long way to go, so won't have time to convert all the calculations and math to timer-based.
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bjadams
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Posted: 16th Nov 2012 22:02
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i had your same problems when i used dark gdk, i never used timer movements.

when i started using agk the first thing i did was learn all about timer movement, and from then the habit stuck
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Marl
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Posted: 17th Nov 2012 00:47 Edited at: 17th Nov 2012 00:52
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^^ what he said.

I never use anything else now - even if I don't need it in the game.

The following code (present in all my projects and called every loop) is all that's needed and its a minor overhead.
(technically you don't need the second line, but I find it gives a more accurate result than screenfps() - which seems to be averaged )

Display being a global (UDT) and the fields lastFrameTime and Display.lastFPS being floats.
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Plystire
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Posted: 17th Nov 2012 03:21 Edited at: 17th Nov 2012 03:24
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The math for timer-based movement is fairly simple and straightforward.

What I do is grab a "frameStep" value each frame that will be used as a scalar for movement during that frame. Here's a snippet of how it works.



This one variable is used in all the maths necessary for the game. The 0.0166666667 value is derived from 1/60, with 60 being the framerate that you want the movement to match.


~Plystire

A rose is only a rose until it is held and cherished -- then it becomes a treasure.
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lilpissywilly
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Posted: 17th Nov 2012 10:32
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How would you use this with box2d and if you never move a sprite manually? Box2d gets really messed up when fps drops.

My hovercraft is full of eels
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BatVink
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Posted: 17th Nov 2012 11:19
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You'll need to explain your box2D issues in more detail. I haven't found any issues with it.

I did have a problem at one point, and it turned out to be my code. I was applying a multiplier to SetSpritePhysicsForce() based on the timer, just like you would multiply movement in timer-based movement. However, I didn't need to do this because Box2D is already adjusting the values to fit the FPS.

Impulses would be a different matter though if you kept applying them every cycle. These would need adjusting manually.

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lilpissywilly
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Posted: 17th Nov 2012 11:32 Edited at: 17th Nov 2012 11:42
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In this case I'm not applying any force at all just adding objects to a scene and letting them interact, and on my old galaxy s when the fps goes somewhere below 20fps (after about 10 objects depending on shape) the objects start overlapping and such. Not a little either. It doesn't happen on my S3 or pc where the fps stays the same with 50-60 objects (full screen). I've added a piece of code that doesn't allow more objects when the fps drops, but this certainly changes the gamers experience

Edit: I'd like to add that I believe my Galaxy S1 is unusually slow and in dire need of a factory reset. But it makes for good testing on low end devices

My hovercraft is full of eels
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BatVink
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Posted: 17th Nov 2012 12:05
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OK, I see that could be a problem! The objects aren't detecting collision, because they have missed their opportunity to detect the edges colliding at a slow frame rate.

You have 2 options, and you should probably only use them when the FPS hits a given threshold...

SetPhysicsCCD (Global setting)

SetSpritePhysicsIsBullet (individual sprites)

Both of these perform the collision on the path of the objects between frames, rather than just the position they finish at. Unfortunately they have more overhead, the second is less intensive than the first.

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lilpissywilly
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Posted: 17th Nov 2012 12:20
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Yes I could try that, thanks

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baxslash
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Posted: 17th Nov 2012 13:24
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GetFrametime() gets the last time step and is a very accurate way of doing timer based movement. It saves manually calculating a framestep value.


this.mess = abs(sin(times#))
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Cliff Mellangard 3DEGS
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Posted: 17th Nov 2012 15:50
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i use getframe time for all my agk apps and it works great

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xCept
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Posted: 18th Nov 2012 07:46
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Quote: "I can also confirm you need to run your Sync Rate at (0,0) (i.e. fast as possible) to get your app digesting the events from the Ultrabook sensors quickly so there is no lag."


In this case, is it better to use mode 0 (less battery usage) or 1 (more precise) when setting the Sync Rate to 0? Does it make a difference? I know when I did early tests on the Ultrabook I had to set the mode to 1 or the game performed poorly and that was before the sensor commands were added. I'm also wondering if the sensor commands may still lag even when uncapped on certain lower end models.
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swissolo
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Posted: 18th Nov 2012 18:35 Edited at: 18th Nov 2012 18:36
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Looks to me like the objectRayCast command is broken. It always returns the same object when it contacts anything. ObjectSphereCast, on the other hand, seems to be working fine

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Plystire
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Posted: 19th Nov 2012 05:54 Edited at: 19th Nov 2012 07:10
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Well... I'm kinda feeling shot in the foot here as far as gamedev goes.

I've timer-based my entire game now... worked out kinks to get that working as smooth as possible... dealing with other bugs... and after all of that I'm still finding that my game is incapable of running faster than 120fps during gameplay. So, here I am with sensorlag still. I could understand sensor lag if it was 1 second behind or so, but it's lagging behind by a good 10+ seconds. Totally unplayable.

Is there an ETA for a new beta release that will fix this issue? I'm leaving for the holidays in 2 days and I really wanted to get this done before that.

[EDIT]

Did more testing and it seems that the sensor lag is progressive.
Upon first starting the game, the sensors are fairly responsive... but as time goes on, the sensors lag further and further behind, eventually reaching the point where it might as well be spitting out random values.


~Plystire

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Lucas Tiridath
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Posted: 19th Nov 2012 08:55
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Quote: "I could understand sensor lag if it was 1 second behind or so, but it's lagging behind by a good 10+ seconds."

Yes I've noticed this as well. I was playing around with the ambient light sensor and it was driving me crazy until I realized it was just lagging. Don't really get why though because like you say, it doesn't seem to be tied with the frame rate. 60 updates a second would be more than responsive enough for me! Anyhow I'm lucky that it doesn't break my app (the light sensor just tells you when the environment has become too dark so can take its time to work it out) but I hope you get a solution soon.

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baxslash
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Posted: 19th Nov 2012 10:14
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Quote: "I'm still finding that my game is incapable of running faster than 120fps during gameplay"

Are you seriously worried about your game running slower than 120fps? Or was that a typo?

I'm afraid I only tried a couple of sensors for my game and they seemed ok but I ended up only using the light sensor to adjust contrast in the game and one of the motion sensors to detect when the device was picked up, then it goes into pause mode.

I haven't heard anything from Lee regarding the next update but I'll try to find out.


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Matty H
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Posted: 19th Nov 2012 15:34
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Quote: "Are you seriously worried about your game running slower than 120fps? Or was that a typo?"


My game needs to run 200+ fps to be responsive enough for the sensors. This definitely can't be right, I have downloaded games that use the sensors and they run at normal frame-rates, I know this because my ultrabooks fans go into overdrive when running 200+ fps, this does not happen on the games I have downloaded.


Can tier 2 users not implement the sensors themselves? I am looking at tier 2 for my next project and this is one advantage I thought tier 2 had over tier 1?

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apocolyp4
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Posted: 19th Nov 2012 15:40 Edited at: 19th Nov 2012 15:41
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I plan to submit my game later today. I was holding off for Beta 4 with the hope it would fix the stability issues that Beta 3 has. Right now running my game is like Russian Roulette as the game randomly crash either on start up or shutting the game down 20%-30% of the time. It doesn't crash when built using 107 or 1065. Ill be disappointed if my game fails to pass validation, and a chance to win the competition due to this.
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