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AppGameKit Classic Chat / Evaluating another 2D engine....

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xGEKKOx
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Posted: 16th Jan 2014 16:32 Edited at: 16th Jan 2014 16:33
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I'm very sorry to inform TGC team that i'm porting my AppGameKit manager/templates on a new 2D Engine.
As i see no updates for AppGameKit 108, and no possibility to work on Android (AGK is full of bug on Android) i'm switching to Monkey X.
I don't know the AppGameKit roadmap, but too many time is passed from 108.19

AGK is great on iOS, but now i wanna extend my business on Android and Windows Phone.
I wanted to use c++, but i can't find an engine that use it.

AGK for me remain the best, but is impossible to publish for Android in TIER 2.
So i have to work in 2 languages, AKG/c++ on iOS and Blitz Basic on Android, Windows Phone.

I also thought to buy AppGameKit V2, but i'm changing my mind, as i don't need 3D.

I hope to get some news from TGC team soon.

Long life to Steve!
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BraindeaD
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Posted: 16th Jan 2014 17:23
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Sorry to hear that, Gekko.
I don't know monkey X, but it must be an evolution of monkey, right? I used Monkey a times ago... and seems to me an ugly and complicated language compared with AGK... but if it fits your needs...
Good luck with your projects!
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xGEKKOx
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Posted: 16th Jan 2014 17:26
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Well is Basic, but when you press Build, it build for every platform, and you don't need to do nothing more.

No templates, no build path, nothing nothing.
I will continue to use AppGameKit only on iOS as my mega template taken too long time to get perfect.

Long life to Steve!
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JimHawkins
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Posted: 16th Jan 2014 22:28
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xGEKKOx - I thing the problems are with Android, not AppGameKit!

I also think Money's language is quite clean and elegant, and it's modular and OOP. It certainly is NOT Basic as such. You can use C++ is you're a masochist!

A rewrite of AppGameKit Basic could massively improve itself by taking a few hints from the language.

But the ability to use Lua multiplies the power by 1,000,000 and in my view should have been in AppGameKit from the start.

-- Jim - When is there going to be a release?
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Naphier
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Posted: 16th Jan 2014 23:15
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I'd love to hear your experience with it. It has a LOT of deployment options which would be great for me. I'd hate to have to rewrite Wordspionage, but if Monkey X cures all of my blues then it might be the way to go. I'll definitely be looking into it more.

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bjadams
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Posted: 16th Jan 2014 23:24 Edited at: 16th Jan 2014 23:27
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What does MonkeyX offer more than Monkey? As last time I checked about Monkey (last year in 2013), the user support was horrible
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unlikely
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Posted: 17th Jan 2014 01:00
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@bjadams
It's just a rebranding, but it is being incrementally improved constantly. Monkey is on a fast release schedule (new version every couple of weeks that adds new features / bug fixes.)

@xGEKKOx
You could use Cocos2d-x to target all of those platforms while using C++, if you'd truly prefer it.
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SoftMotion3D
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Posted: 17th Jan 2014 01:30 Edited at: 17th Jan 2014 01:34
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Quote: "AGK for me remain the best, but is impossible to publish for Android in TIER 2."


is it?

is everyone just using t1 on google play?

AGK has t2 templates within the agk folders for android.

maybe it just requires more setup?

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xGEKKOx
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Posted: 17th Jan 2014 02:08
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Hi SMD, is the same thing i understood.
In my opinion, here all use Basic Tier 1 Android, and nobody seems able to go on after few days.
Only few of us (like me) use Tier 2 c++ with iOS.

I also offered my help to update AppGameKit 108 for free, but no reply.

Tier 2 Android is a pain. Sometimes work, sometimes not, and i don't want to release apps with this mystery

Anyway, Monkey X is really great, but i'm doing the porting step by step.
The best thing, is you press build, and woilà, it build for all devices.
It have OOP, strange Method structure, and rendering, but i think it can become great in small time.

Today i ported the Server/Client part, base64 and json, but i'm tired, and i started again to test Android AGK. Cause i need to port immediately my iOS apps.
To complete new important project till June.

I've done some step forward.
But, wow, now Eclipse, don't see again AGK.h................ wooooo!!! I will burn Eclipse.

I don't understand why TGC don't do the things we need...
We need (iOS users) a template for XCode for android, with the path already set.
We need a template for Netbeans (not eclipse).

We never needed V2, i was also available to pay 108 again, but V2.......
See you later!!!



Long life to Steve!
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baxslash
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Posted: 17th Jan 2014 09:07
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Different tools suit different people. TGC have been providing everything I need for AppGameKit so I'm happy. They haven't provided what you want so you are moving on. That's fine if it suits your needs but I'm sorry to see you go. I don't think anyone has released as many games as you in AGK.

I thought there was one click deploy for Android in AppGameKit now? I haven't used it as I'm not planning on releasing on mobile platforms for a while. My games are becoming more PC / Mac based.

oct(31) = dec(25)
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DavidAGK
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Posted: 17th Jan 2014 09:28
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Just had a quick look at Monkey X and it already targets the Playstation Vita and Xbox 360 from first glance. I'm guessing they might move onto the PS4? Anyone know if this is the case?

How big is the monkey X team compared to AppGameKit?
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baxslash
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Posted: 17th Jan 2014 10:30
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Quote: "How big is the monkey X team compared to AppGameKit?"

It can't really be much smaller

What TGC needs is some proper investment. AppGameKit could be fantastic with a few more people working on it.

oct(31) = dec(25)
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Van B
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Posted: 17th Jan 2014 11:03
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It's sad, but it's the state of the industry right now. Small and cheap to maintain is the only way to survive... people working from home, taking gambles sometimes as well. If your a small software company like TGC, and you don't have more work than you have people or time for, then the chances are you are doomed!

I think that TGC are pushing AGKv2 because they learned from v1 and v2 is easier to develop with, maybe it has a less troublesome bytecode language - I dunno, but we don't really know what will happen with v1 when v2 is released.

I think it would be better to have everyone on v2 if v1 is going to fall by the wayside and not be updated - like anyone with v1 gets v2, or at least a basic version of v2. Maybe things like 3D physics should be optional extras (at a fair price), but backers get the whole package.

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JimHawkins
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Posted: 17th Jan 2014 13:15
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Monkey has one programmer - Mark Sibley.

But - and it's a big but - because it allows for extension modules and new translators and can use Lua - it very expandable. I've been saying for years that AppGameKit needs Lua. Lots of AAA games use Lua for their levels and other hard stuff, leaving the graphics to the core engine.

No development system (or any other program) can expect to stay in everlasting alpha or beta and be taken seriously. Professional programmers can deal with a release with notes. But there has not been an official release for a ridiculously long time.

-- Jim - When is there going to be a release?
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Van B
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Posted: 17th Jan 2014 13:42
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Ahhh, you lost my interest when you mention M. Sibly

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Lucas Tiridath
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Posted: 17th Jan 2014 13:54
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Quote: "Tier 2 Android is a pain. Sometimes work, sometimes not, and i don't want to release apps with this mystery"

I know what you mean about it being a pain, although I mean clearly it works. I for one have published a Tier 2 game to both Google Play and the Amazon App Store without any particular trouble. However I know from previous threads that you often try and integrate other libraries and so maybe that's why I've not had the same problems with it that you have.

Quote: "I've been saying for years that AppGameKit needs Lua."

I'm pretty sure this isn't what you mean (you're talking about AppGameKit commands like ExecuteLuaFile(string) etc. right?) but I did write a Lua wrapper for AppGameKit so that you can write your programs in Lua instead of AppGameKit BASIC. If you're interested, you can find the thread here.

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JimHawkins
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Posted: 17th Jan 2014 19:04
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Lucas - That's a Tier2 system. I don't have these problems because I use Pascal. I was talking about a T1 interface to Lua, so that those struggling with spaghetti Basic could have a simple interface with powerful scripting.

GEKKO is so in love with Objective C (AKA NextStep) that he sometimes fails to grasp the essentials of using a non-OC language!

-- Jim - When is there going to be a release?
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xGEKKOx
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Posted: 17th Jan 2014 20:02
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No Jim i don't like too much Obj C, but AppGameKit for iOS is really good.
The problem is when i compile it for Android.

Of course i ported the Obj C features in C++, but Android show too warning, too info, too Error..
The LogCat is unwatchable!!!!

XCode tell you the error and the line, LogCat is a papyrus.

The screen flicker, sometimes it crash on the AgkHTTP, sometimes don't solve the X,Y of a sprite.

I will continue to develop with AppGameKit on iOS, but a piece after piece, i will pass all on MonkeyX.

If i think of AppGameKit V2, i can't imagine a complete new engine. In my opinion it comes from the V1, so i bet that the problems will continue on Android.
The template is orrible, the first thing a Team must do perfectly is the Template.
Noobs need to start from it and debug at first try.

I hope TGC will do something, or the kickstarter event will be the last.

Long life to Steve!
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bjadams
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Posted: 17th Jan 2014 23:05
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Things that put me off Monkey are that there's only 1 man working on it. You might say that AppGameKit also has 1 man working on it but AppGameKit is a company and if something happens to that 1 man the project will pass on other hands.

Also with AppGameKit T2 I can use C++ which I am very comfortable with and learn something which is an industry standard. Monkey has its own pseudo language. If Monkey would use C++ syntax I would for sure start using it as $99 is not a huge investment.
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JimHawkins
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Posted: 17th Jan 2014 23:19
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I hate C++ - I think it's the ugliest cobbled-together mess of a language ever devised.

Gekko - all the apps I have compiled with Pascal have run perfectly on Android.

-- Jim - When is there going to be a release?
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xGEKKOx
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Posted: 18th Jan 2014 19:39 Edited at: 18th Jan 2014 19:41
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Yes BJ, anyway you can call external c++ functions from the monkey x.
It's the same thing i thought after i bought it.

Hmmm JIM, have you some kind of example, and where to get Pascal nowadays?
I used it in the past, i also bought and worked for a company with Delphi when i was young.

Edit : Do you use Tier 2?

Long life to Steve!
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IronGiant
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Posted: 18th Jan 2014 20:13
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I use AppGameKit and Monkey X, and GameMaker Studio, and Purebasic, and ..., well you get the idea,

Each tool has its purpose. Monkey X is an updated version of Monkey,

And it now allows you to create Windows games without buying it where as before you could only make HTML5 with the unpaid version.

There is also an IDE for it called Jungle made by another person, but is not free, but cool as hell,

Mark was never great with IDEs, used Ideal when I used to program in Blitz basic 3D for that very reason.

That all being said I still like AppGameKit a little more, mainly because its syntax is a little easier in tier 1.

But I agree AppGameKit does need a better way to compile for other machines other than Windows.

Most multi machine languages right now though are a pain when it comes to anything other than compiling for Mac or PC, yes I have both and know full well that on anything other than my Mac or PC its a giant step that could and should be easier.

and that's my thoughts on that.

It's Bird! , It's Plane!, No its a rocket powered Squirrel holding some acorns and a smile!
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JimHawkins
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Posted: 18th Jan 2014 23:29
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Quote: "Hmmm JIM, have you some kind of example, and where to get Pascal nowadays?
I used it in the past, i also bought and worked for a company with Delphi when i was young."


I use Delphi all the time. It's quite expensive now, but will do Windows, OS X, iOS and Android from one code-base, including the powerful FireMonkey graphics etc system, which is based on the DXScene 3D games engine for Delphi.

Then there's FPC (Free Pascal Compiler) which is remarkably cheap - i.e. free.

The only version of AppGameKit for Pascal is in your Products page, and is free. However, it's V1076. Whether it will be updated or not largely depends upon when there will be a release of any non-beta version of AppGameKit, so don't hold your breath. It's a pity we're stuck there, but I think Erik van Bilsen has somewhat lost patience with TGC's ability to actually seal a release.

-- Jim - When is there going to be a release?
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Naphier
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Posted: 19th Jan 2014 00:09
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How does Delphi work? Do you still have to use XCode? Do you still have to use Eclipse (or some java IDE)? Is the language interpreted by something like NDK on Android? It is expensive, but I'm afraid that will be the next step for us... to actually spend a few bucks. Monkey X might be cool too, but I'm concerned about slow support and addition of features since it is a 1 man team.

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xGEKKOx
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Posted: 19th Jan 2014 01:11 Edited at: 19th Jan 2014 16:04
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Well Jim, in my opinion, if TGC don't release another V1 version (at least android easy ready to go template) until April, i think the V2 will be useless.

I think this because, if i look at Unity or the other 3D engines, i can see that they are too far forward. They have a visual IDE ambient to work in, and some other features that who work on 3D need.

For me AppGameKit could be the best 2D engine, imagine....

Features :
- Fast Color Pixel functions
- Pseudo 3D engine functions (old style race games)
- 2.5D Tile Engine functions
- 2D Tile Engine functions
- Better Buttons, EditBox, Message Box
- Menu functions with "AddMenuItem", "AddMenuChecked", etc....
- Sound with pitch, frequency, functions to do advanced music apps

And many other functions that i have in my mind.

I think that are these the things we need, those things can carry money to TGC.

What do you think about my suggestions?

Long life to Steve!
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DavidAGK
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Posted: 19th Jan 2014 11:12
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My personal feeling is that with a small team they should focus all of their time and energy on a single product (AGK V2) and forget other items like FPSC (they simply can't compete against BF4 and COD etc). I'd also leave 3D out of the equation until the pipeline to producing and publishing 2D games on popular platforms is thoroughly done.So, reduce and simplify the offering but make it a really solid. This might increase the chances of a 'headline game' like angry birds being made with AppGameKit which would be a significant marketing benefit.

Next step - I'd personally target the new consoles as per a previous post.
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Matty H
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Posted: 19th Jan 2014 12:20
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Quote: "My personal feeling is that with a small team they should focus all of their time and energy on a single product (AGK V2) and forget other items like FPSC (they simply can't compete against BF4 and COD etc)."


That is the second time I have heard a comparison of FPSC to COD or BF4. Perhaps you don't know what FPSC is? It's a tool which allows you to create FPS games, it's not a game like COD or BF4.

FPSC was a very successful product for TGC, maybe their most successful product? It may even be helping the development of AGK(financially), it's impossible for us to know.

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Alex_Peres
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Posted: 19th Jan 2014 14:30 Edited at: 19th Jan 2014 14:36
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MonkeyX is pretty cool tool! The best thing in this is OpenGL commands!
AGK develops really slow and bit stup@@. Didn't finish with 2d they started 3d which is totally not ready for development without animation!!!
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Digital Awakening
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Posted: 19th Jan 2014 17:08
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Quote: "I'd also leave 3D out of the equation until the pipeline to producing and publishing 2D games on popular platforms is thoroughly done."


I agree. However, most 2D is done and if you look at the roadmap for v2 it does core functionality before 3D. Once we get OUYA, IDE and Compiler updates AppGameKit is going to be a very solid dev option. With the updates in the v2 alpha I only need the OUYA stuff to be able to complete my game. Which still is months from completion.

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xGEKKOx
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Posted: 19th Jan 2014 19:51
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Hey Digital, which platform your game is released on?
With Tier are you using?

I do this questions, because i think your game is one of the best ever released on AppGameKit, and i want to know another mind.

Have your game good downloads?
Tell us your impressions with AppGameKit and the device you used till now.
I'm always interested in this statistics.

Long life to Steve!
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JimHawkins
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Posted: 19th Jan 2014 23:20 Edited at: 20th Jan 2014 00:17
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If you want to look at what Delphi can do, Google Delphi XE5. There are also lots of videos on YouTube. It does not require Eclipse. It does require the Android SDK and NDK - but will install and configure them when you install it.

It is not a high-performance game engine - it's a very powerful professional compiler with the best visual design system ever, anywhere.

AGK does what AppGameKit is designed to do very well. It marshals sprites and other common game elements and manages them very efficiently. This is why having an interface from Pascal - Delphi or Free Pascal - is good, because you can use the full power of the Object Pascal system and use AppGameKit as your graphics engine.

I think it's important to see the difference between the AppGameKit engine and the limitations of AppGameKit Basic. The Basic is a rather old-fashioned language implementation which uses the engine. The Pascal, C++ or any other language interface deals directly with the engine and can use anything; for example, if you want to show energy in an audio waveform you need to to perform Fourier transforms on the data - these require imaginary numbers: hardly possible in AppGameKit Basic.

If AppGameKit continues to grow - as we hope it will - it needs a far more structured approach to its core language. It needs some conception of namespace as a high priority. It need proper data-hiding. It needs inheritance... and so on.

-- Jim - When is there going to be a release?
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Naphier
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Posted: 19th Jan 2014 23:39
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Limitations on BASIC aside, my main peeves are that we still have issues with things like AdMob ads taking forever to show on Android, issues with text input (blamed on NDK although Unity seems to have a handle on it), and just various bugs that, in my opinion, need to be fully addressed before extras like 3D, Spline, etc. are implemented.

It's good to know that Delphi also requires NDK. I have very mixed feelings about NDK because it has been blamed for so many issues.

@Matty H - I think the point that DavidAGK was getting at is that FPSC can't compete with engines like Unity or UDK. Is FPSC reloaded even going on? I see they never met their goal on Kickstarter. There were a lot of backers and they raised a little less than AGKv2 kickstarter. I agree fully with DavidAGK and I would rather TGC focuses their efforts on a product that is being used to actually make games that are being bought. That said, if FPSC is making them money then I can't blame them for focusing on it. We've got a handful of devs here that are making money on their AppGameKit built apps. I don't know if FPSC can say the same (I've never looked as the first FPSC was far from my liking). AppGameKit could be really really great and help folks with little programming background get into the market and actually make money. I really don't see that happening with FPSC

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JimHawkins
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Posted: 20th Jan 2014 00:33
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Naphier - You can't develop for Android really without using some parts of NDK. Android is a mess because Google never imposed any discipline. It's impossible to sidestep the Java event interface, as far as I can see.

The problem with using generic interfaces like text input is that they don't always sit comfortably inside the procedural loop structure of AGK. They require a step outside that, and to do that you have to roll your own text input.

I don't think anybody with little programming background can actually get into the market quickly using AppGameKit or anything else - not unless they're prepared to stay up at night for a long time studying examples and reading documentation - which amounts to a DIY programming course. That's how most people learn the essentials, and there's nothing the matter with that.

-- Jim - When is there going to be a release?
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xCept
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Posted: 20th Jan 2014 02:36 Edited at: 20th Jan 2014 02:40
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Quote: "Is FPSC reloaded even going on? I see they never met their goal on Kickstarter."

The Kickstarter was unsuccessful, but an anonymous person funded TGC the full amount necessary to develop it afterward. Lee Bamber is working full-time on FPSC:R while Paul is working on AGK. Those are the only two products TGC is developing currently, to my knowledge (both AppGameKit and FPSC:R have just one core programmer--although FPSC:R also has some support devs now).

FPSC was certainly one of TGC's most popular releases, spawning an educational version for schools and all. However, I'm not sure how many have had any financial success with it as most releases are free. However, at least a few games are commercial, "Into the Dark" also was voted #6 top indie FPS of 2013 on http://www.indiedb.com/events/2013-indie-of-the-year-awards/features/indie-of-the-year-2013.
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Van B
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Posted: 20th Jan 2014 10:39
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I think FPSC:R will take off... and LUA will be like strapping rockets to it.

Thing is, Lee isn't a game programmer, he's writing an engine probably much the same as with the original FPSC, but with his own priorities. A game programmer has different priorities to an engine programmer - otherwise they'd be doing the same thing .

We will see FPSC:R released, and it'll be a little bit clunky - animations won't flow exactly how you'd like, AI will annoy you, things will be unbalanced. Don't get me wrong, this is normality - it's the same thing with other new engines as well. But LUA will mean that game programmers will get their mucky paws on the game logic stuff that makes a game, a game. Game and Engine programmers work at cross purposes - one of them is trying to impress you with effects and speed and draw distance, while the other is trying to make you disregard all that and be impressed by game mechanics and originality.

For example, if an enemy gets shot - what happens then?

Engine programmer:
Play the death animation, spawn blood particles, disable collision, fade the corpse on alpha nice and slow.

Game programmer:
Blend the death animation with the current animation, find a frame in the death animation that suits the current pose, tween to the death animation and then switch it all out to ragdolls for the big finish, landing in a heap.

There's a reason why big studios like to keep engine and logic coders separate.

Ideally, I think the FPSC:R store should have LUA code as well - encourage people to pick up the language and do something special, something that maybe even Lee didn't see coming. If an artist can spend days working on a model to sell there, why can't a programmer spend days on a game mechanic that people want. Imagine having an artist make a dog model, and a programmer make a fully functioning dog AI script that people could then add to themselves. Could get really interesting and I think it's just what FPSC needs... the ability for someone to spend countless hours and meticulous detail making something awesome - not just in indie dev terms, but we might end up seeing things that would make COD and BF4 fanboys drool. Lee might not realize the insane lengths a game programmer will go to, just to satisfy their curiosity.

Anyway, I see a few threads like this appearing. Come on guys, this is no time to loose faith!

I am the one who knocks...
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JimHawkins
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Posted: 20th Jan 2014 12:55
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Absolutely agree with Van B.

That's why I've said many times that AppGameKit needs Lua to become a sensible games development system. Let's take one example: localisation. Lua would make it easy to switch languages with logic totally separate from the engine itself. It simply means providing new scripts WITHOUT changing the engine. You simply release new scripts. Your core program should be lean, focussed and efficient. If your levels, scenes, or whatever, are coded in Lua you can add almost infinite content without re-programming. You can improve your AI or anything else outside of the graphics and audio engine.

If I write a story using Word, I don't have to reprogram Word with the text built in: Word is the production engine, the story is the content.

i think AppGameKit is far too convoluted, verbose and obscure for new amateur programmers. They need a visual designer. Other systems do this very well. But, AppGameKit Basic is too primitive for professional programmers to produce anything powerful, and hence they must move to Tier 2 and face some problematic template and other issues.

-- Jim - When is there going to be a release?
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baxslash
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Posted: 20th Jan 2014 17:01 Edited at: 20th Jan 2014 17:03
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A good programmer could create a front end for AppGameKit similar to Unity. It really wouldn't be too hard to do (for a good programmer). I'd really like to work on a front end like that, but I just don't have the time. My 2D engine could potentially be added to and made more generic to create 2D games in a similar way to Unity and maybe even moved to 3D at some point but why?

Unity will always be better because of the enormous following and backing it has. A dumbed down editor would change the market to one AppGameKit can't compete in.

I'm a professional programmer and I absolutely LOVE tier 1. It's not the product that has to change, it's people's perception of it (in my opinion). Sure, simplify the end to end process, add new commands and tools but change the market to one like Unity? I'd move to Unity. I already own a license.

I love AppGameKit basic BECAUSE of the limits and the way it forces me to think inside the box. It's more than possible to create something incredible with AppGameKit, it just takes the right way of thinking...

oct(31) = dec(25)
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Matty H
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Posted: 20th Jan 2014 17:11
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I totally understand where baxslash is coming from.

I have tried UDK and it's awesome, but all that extra ease comes with limitations.

Working from a lower level and creating your own tools as needed takes longer but you can end up with something more unique. I could not even create a simple race track editor in UDK without a great deal of hassle, but it's simple to do in DBPro and soon probably AppGameKit too.

For ultimate creativity you need to go lower and lower until you get to DirectX or OpenGL, that's a step too far for most people(including me), but DarkGDK/DBPro and AppGameKit strike a good balance for me.

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Van B
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Posted: 20th Jan 2014 17:12
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Exactly - there are still untapped genres that AppGameKit can fit right into, and even benefit the developer in how easy it is to develop with.

We see mindless Bejeweled clones make the most money, or old school 2D platformers... AppGameKit can easily create these titles, it just takes a bit of originality and a helluva lot of luck - I don't think AppGameKit is lacking anything it really needs to make a killer app. There are gaps and there are AppGameKit projects that fill those gaps - it takes time to polish to a required standard, it's still big gamble no matter what the project.

I am the one who knocks...
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DavidAGK
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Posted: 20th Jan 2014 18:04
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Firstly reading over my last post, it sounds like I'm being negative towards AppGameKit which was not my intention. I'm very impressed with AppGameKit and love the fact that I can code in Basic.

I guess my main feeling is that TGC should concentrate on what is likely to allow their developers most success. To me that feels like 2D games for now. As mentioned in threads above, there are some very established and heavily backed 3D engines out there that would be difficult to compete with. I could well be wrong but that's my gut feel.
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Digital Awakening
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Posted: 20th Jan 2014 19:58 Edited at: 20th Jan 2014 20:18
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Games like Kingdom Rush, Risk of Rain, Nidhogg, Divekick, Don't Starve, FTL, Cave Story, Braid, Towerfall, Meat Boy and many more could easily have been done in AGK. I've bought 7 of those games BTW (Cave Story was released for free). As an indie dev you should have at least heard of all of those. I love Kingdom Rush on Windows, best tower defense game I have ever played.

xGEKKOx:
Thanks

I'm going to disappoint you a bit here. My game has not been released. Only a pre alhpa released for free on 3 forums. I just looked at the statistics on my webhost and Windows and Andorid versions combined are closing in on 2000 downloads over 4 months. I had no idea it was that much! Once I reach alpha I will try to release it on Google Play and OUYA Discover, for PC I am not sure what channel to use. IndieDB perhaps?

I am using Tier 1 Basic. My game is currently available on Windows, Android and OUYA. Only by direct download on my forum threads and my website. I have not touched Mac and iOS because I don't own a Mac to compile on.

As an old DB Pro coder I really like working with AGK. It still lacks a few features DBP has but with the updates planned for v2 I don't think I will be missing anything. I don't care about the 3D stuff right now. I am used to the way DBP/AGK works and how to think to get what I want.

The only problem I have right now is a low frame rate on OUYA. This is because OUYA renders to 1080p and I can't easily change the frame buffer in AGK. Basically the Tegra 3 does not have the fillrate required to run games natively in 1080p. Which is why render to image is very interesting, because I can render to a small image and draw that to the screen. Not as perfect as altering the frame buffer. But it should more than double my framerate, and that's enough for me. Just waiting for the alpha to work on Android devices.

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xGEKKOx
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Posted: 20th Jan 2014 20:06
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Well, boys, i have finally run AppGameKit for Android in Tier 2 with the same codes of iOS.
Wow what a work....

Some bugs still there, but this is a great thing for me.
Now i will pass the apps to my co-coder to see what he can do in this week, and if the template will work perfectly, i will upload it on the forum.

I love AppGameKit, even if other engine are better, but AppGameKit V1 need a completion.
If TGC choose some of us to complete the V1 (obvious for free) with some new features, i think it can sell very much more, MUCH!!!!


Long life to Steve!
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xGEKKOx
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Posted: 20th Jan 2014 20:09 Edited at: 20th Jan 2014 20:11
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@Digital Awakening
What do you think if i pass your game on iOS and make you earn a lot?

Why don't you call me on Skype?

I can help you very much, or we can also work together in new project.
I have some projects that you can fit really well.
We have some games like Last Ninja 2 remake and Wonder Boy in Monsterland remake in our future projects.

Long life to Steve!
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Digital Awakening
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Posted: 20th Jan 2014 20:23
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xGEKKOx:
Thanks for the offer but RTA is far from complete and I will buy additional hardware later. I also don't want to work on any other projects at the moment. RTA is coming along nicely and has received very positive feedback so far. I got loads of possible projects of my own to work on after that.

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MarcoBruti
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Posted: 20th Jan 2014 20:39
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In the meantime, waiting for AGKv2 to become at least a bete, I am using Corona SDK, Starter Edition, which is for free. It is based on LUA, it supports tweening, animation, storyboards, etc etc, but it is only 2D. Anyway it is not a definitive step to leave AppGameKit, but it is simply an intermediate move to continue publishing apps for Android.
I have now 3 apps (BlockZap, PongSoccer and MegaCraft2D) both on Google Play and Samsung App Store (MegaCraft2D is on certification on Samsung). It will not be my last choice because of the simplest of motivations: the higher versions (not starter) are extremely expensive. I think that AppGameKit is the most promising tool, it has a lot of features, the bad thing is that it never reach a finale state, it is always in beta or alpha, and it is not acceptable even for indie game programmer. I have said at least one hundred times that the language must be improved, adding OOP capabilities, references to pass complex data types to functions, extensibility, one-click APK build, etc
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Digital Awakening
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Posted: 20th Jan 2014 21:45
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Quote: "adding OOP capabilities, references to pass complex data types to functions, extensibility, one-click APK build, etc "


You do not need these things to make a great game though. One click builds from within the IDE I agree is a must have for AppGameKit in the near future. Personally I think it's more important than 3D. So I hope we will see it implemented in v2. For the planned $149 cost of v2 it's pretty much required IMHO.

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xGEKKOx
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Posted: 20th Jan 2014 23:38
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I agree, the one click button is the most important feature.
This can be also just replaced by the "Perfect" Template.

TGC team had much time to update the templates, and i never understand why they never did that.

Long life to Steve!
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Digital Awakening
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Posted: 20th Jan 2014 23:50 Edited at: 20th Jan 2014 23:50
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Actually, I would gladly pay for an AppGameKit v3 that does nothing but focus on platform support. AppGameKit has to focus on increased functionality and that's what v2 is all about. But look at some of the popular engines out there, they are selling platform modules as addons. I think this is going to be very important for AppGameKit to live on. Indies are going more and more multi platform. Add popular indie platforms and make it easier to publish to them (as well as existing ones) and I think TGC can make money there. Making money is essential for the survival of AGK. I would pay $100, $200 or more to be able to release on Linux, consoles and handhelds. RTA on Vita, now that would be awesome! But not everyone wants that, so addons are important. Just look at what GameMaker charges. Or Unity, that one's kinda scary.

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JimHawkins
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Posted: 21st Jan 2014 00:23
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Quote: "To me that feels like 2D games for now."


Seems to me that apart from some tweaks to the audio the existing 1076 last official release does 2D pretty well. So why bother with V2 at all?

Maybe I'm just old and grumpy, but I'd rather people new to programming learned a language that did not encourage practices (like insistence on hundreds of globals) which have been regarded as disastrous for several decades, for good reasons: the bigger the program gets the harder it is to control, debug and understand.

-- Jim - When is there going to be a release?
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xGEKKOx
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Posted: 21st Jan 2014 01:40 Edited at: 21st Jan 2014 01:45
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I agree with Digital Awakening... this is happened because, with the mobile platform, the users are returning to the real funny games, that are for sure not in 3D.

In 3D you can play some race games, some soccer games, but if you want an RPG, or a platform, people choose 2D.

If you want a 3D game, a big 3D game i mean, you use a PC, not an iPad. I want to use a mouse and the WASD keys.

For this reason i agree, and is true that the other engines coders, are betting on the modules to help indie developers.
Remember that who buy AppGameKit or Monkey X or Cocos 2DX, etc.... are the indie, not the big houses.
Big houses have their engines or have the bought big one, where there are at least 500 people working on it.

This is why i always said, that TGC is on the wrong way. Anyway we can be wrong, but the market goes in this way.

Edit : And i want to add this thing.... I work alone on my forum, i'm alone in graphic design now, i'm alone with coding, i'm alone with marketing on iAD, i'm alone with marketing on forums....
But i always find the time to read my users post everyday.
TGC don't answer a post since the KickStarter "started".....
I'm very sad of this!!!!


Long life to Steve!
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