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AppGameKit Chat / [STICKY] v2 Feature Requests

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BatVink
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Posted: 5th Mar 2015 15:31
Quote: "I would like to see an additional set of draw commands that are persistent"


I believe they are not persistent because they are a direct implementation of the OpenGL commands.

I also think it would be a nice-to-have, my workaround is to have a sprite with a render image.

Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur
SpecTre
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Posted: 5th Mar 2015 17:13
Feature Requests:

I would like to see the option to create apps for Windows 10 and Consoles like the WiiU, PS3/4 and XBOX with also HTML5.
This would create a far bigger user base and following, imagine being able to create your apps and broadcast to a console!

Especially now that there is a free version of Windows 10 due soon for the new Raspberry Pi, there could be lots of possibilities.

I know this would be a long way off but that's what I would like to see and this would secure AGK2's future for many years to come.

Programming - AMOS on the AMIGA! / DBPro / Python / A bit of C C++ / now also AGK2! - Graphics - Deluxe Paint on the Amiga / Paintshop Pro / Photoshop / Lightroom / Grafx2
Previously worked for Prisma Software producing childrens educational software on the Amiga - Titles - Pepe's Garden - Paint Pot / Kids Academy range - Paint Pot II / Shopping Basket / Which Where What? / Blobs / Alvin's Puzzles
paulrobson
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Posted: 5th Mar 2015 17:41
Windows 10, free (for a year) then subscription like Office 365.
SpecTre
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Posted: 5th Mar 2015 17:55
Special version for Raspberry Pi I believe? but Windows 10 will be free for Windows 8 owners I think.

Programming - AMOS on the AMIGA! / DBPro / Python / A bit of C C++ / now also AGK2! - Graphics - Deluxe Paint on the Amiga / Paintshop Pro / Photoshop / Lightroom / Grafx2
Previously worked for Prisma Software producing childrens educational software on the Amiga - Titles - Pepe's Garden - Paint Pot / Kids Academy range - Paint Pot II / Shopping Basket / Which Where What? / Blobs / Alvin's Puzzles
Clonkex
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Posted: 5th Mar 2015 23:38
Quote: "Windows 10, free (for a year) then subscription like Office 365."


Is this a feature request??

SpecTre
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Posted: 6th Mar 2015 01:19
Quote: "Is this a feature request??"


Sort of, read post before.

Programming - AMOS on the AMIGA! / DBPro / Python / A bit of C C++ / now also AGK2! - Graphics - Deluxe Paint on the Amiga / Paintshop Pro / Photoshop / Lightroom / Grafx2
Previously worked for Prisma Software producing childrens educational software on the Amiga - Titles - Pepe's Garden - Paint Pot / Kids Academy range - Paint Pot II / Shopping Basket / Which Where What? / Blobs / Alvin's Puzzles
Clonkex
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Posted: 6th Mar 2015 01:30
Quote: "Sort of, read post before."


Oh I see.

Quote: "I would like to see the option to create apps for Windows 10 and Consoles like the WiiU, PS3/4 and XBOX with also HTML5."


Not really possible (about the consoles, I mean). You have to buy expensive development versions of the consoles and be approved for a developer license before you can make your own software for Playstation or Xbox.

Quote: "Windows 10, free (for a year) then subscription like Office 365."


This is rumour only. Source?

SpecTre
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Posted: 6th Mar 2015 02:31
http://dev.windows.com/en-us/featured/raspberrypi2support

Quote: "Windows 10, free"


Programming - AMOS on the AMIGA! / DBPro / Python / A bit of C C++ / now also AGK2! - Graphics - Deluxe Paint on the Amiga / Paintshop Pro / Photoshop / Lightroom / Grafx2
Previously worked for Prisma Software producing childrens educational software on the Amiga - Titles - Pepe's Garden - Paint Pot / Kids Academy range - Paint Pot II / Shopping Basket / Which Where What? / Blobs / Alvin's Puzzles
Clonkex
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Posted: 6th Mar 2015 02:38
Quote: "http://dev.windows.com/en-us/featured/raspberrypi2support"

Quote: "Windows 10, free"


Awesome! RPi2 Windows 10 for free? Yes please!

Quote: "(for a year) then subscription like Office 365."


Source?

SpecTre
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Posted: 6th Mar 2015 02:46
Quote: "(for a year) then subscription like Office 365."


Don't know anything about that, all I heard is will be free for the Bing version with advertising.

Programming - AMOS on the AMIGA! / DBPro / Python / A bit of C C++ / now also AGK2! - Graphics - Deluxe Paint on the Amiga / Paintshop Pro / Photoshop / Lightroom / Grafx2
Previously worked for Prisma Software producing childrens educational software on the Amiga - Titles - Pepe's Garden - Paint Pot / Kids Academy range - Paint Pot II / Shopping Basket / Which Where What? / Blobs / Alvin's Puzzles
SpecTre
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Posted: 6th Mar 2015 02:58
Quote: "Not really possible (about the consoles, I mean). You have to buy expensive development versions of the consoles and be approved for a developer license before you can make your own software for Playstation or Xbox."


Other developers seem to have the facility, it may be expensive to publish but would be a good feature that others are already providing and people would start using in order for AppGameKit to be competitive in the overall market in the long term.

Programming - AMOS on the AMIGA! / DBPro / Python / A bit of C C++ / now also AGK2! - Graphics - Deluxe Paint on the Amiga / Paintshop Pro / Photoshop / Lightroom / Grafx2
Previously worked for Prisma Software producing childrens educational software on the Amiga - Titles - Pepe's Garden - Paint Pot / Kids Academy range - Paint Pot II / Shopping Basket / Which Where What? / Blobs / Alvin's Puzzles
JimHawkins
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Posted: 6th Mar 2015 08:39
Microsoft are opening up the Xbox SDK shortly.

Onwards and sometimes upwards
JimHawkins
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Posted: 6th Mar 2015 11:02
Microsoft stated publicly that W10 will be a free upgrade for 1 year for licensed W7, W8/8.1.

The "universal apps" concept is good if it means common code will run on all the Windows platforms. But it will need some radical compiler stuff. I doubt, for example, that it will make it in Delphi XE8 - a major focus there will be on ARM64 on iOS, because there are a lot of problems with ARM64 and Apple now requires both 32-bit and 64-bit executables to be in all iOS packages. If it's causing problems for a major compiler company such as Embarcadero it's obvious that small companies like TGC (and mine) are facing a development cliff.

At one time, Apple used to be developer-friendly and Microsoft hostile; that has now swapped around. Fortunately, my company has zero plans to develop for iOS and our programs work fine on W10!

"It is practically impossible to teach good programming to students that have had a prior exposure to BASIC: as potential programmers they are mentally mutilated beyond hope of regeneration." Dijkstra
KultiVator
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Posted: 6th Mar 2015 11:21
Much of the press reported this with slightly ambiguous wording... I believe the correct interpretation is that Win 7 / 8.x users have a 1 year period in which they can claim a free upgrade to Windows 10 - NOT that they can run Windows 10 free for 12 months, then have to pay to continue using it, as one of my friends had mis-concluded.



Jim Hawkins wrote "Microsoft stated publicly that W10 will be a free upgrade for 1 year for licensed W7, W8/8.1"

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JimHawkins
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Posted: 6th Mar 2015 11:58
Earlier this year Microsoft said, quite simply, that it would be a free upgrade.

<<It is practically impossible to teach good programming to students that have had a prior exposure to BASIC: as potential programmers they are mentally mutilated beyond hope of regeneration.>> Dijkstra
KultiVator
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Posted: 6th Mar 2015 12:37
Hi Jim,

Yes Microsoft's own wording was somewhat clearer than some of the Tech Press, which made it sound like you could run Windows 10 free... but just for a year!

BTW: Read your Delphi XE8 / iOS comments with interest, even though I seem to spend more and more time in Lazarus these days (shift in focus to smaller personal projects as opposed to the bigger projects I used to get involved in at work).

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JimHawkins
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Posted: 6th Mar 2015 13:11
I could go on at alarming length about this, but won't. Over the years I've come to the conclusion that one-size-fits-everything is less and less viable in the fractured world of today's ever-changing, less-and-less compatible systems.

Our new systems are designed, always, with an abstraction layer. This can be used by a variety of implementations and a variety of callers. For example, our sophisticated media players have an abstract media player which defines what the player should do. There is a disconnection between the implementations of the player and the GUI interfaces (the visual stuff). Although this may not give us a single code-base it means that the functionality defined in the abstract layer may be created in a different language on a different platform with the same behaviour.

This requires a complete modularity. Unfortunately, Basic does not have this, and requires a monolithic code lump.

<<It is practically impossible to teach good programming to students that have had a prior exposure to BASIC: as potential programmers they are mentally mutilated beyond hope of regeneration.>> Dijkstra
JohnnyMeek
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Posted: 9th Mar 2015 08:39
I'm starting to see pretty steady income from Chartboost, and browsing the features that are supported (but not currently in AGK), there is a more games button, with direct links to your own and other peoples apps.

Looks pretty simple to implement, and as the SDK is already there....

This would be great to have, and I'm pretty sure most people would benefit from it.
Clonkex
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Posted: 9th Mar 2015 09:46
Quote: "I believe the correct interpretation is that Win 7 / 8.x users have a 1 year period in which they can claim a free upgrade to Windows 10 - NOT that they can run Windows 10 free for 12 months, then have to pay to continue using it"


That's what I'm hoping is the case!

Quote: "I'm starting to see pretty steady income from Chartboost"


Good for you! That's pretty hard to achieve

paulrobson
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Posted: 9th Mar 2015 11:28
Quote: "Quote: "Windows 10, free (for a year) then subscription like Office 365."
This is rumour only. Source?"


Microsoft have stated it will be free for a year.

Source ; my work with Windows goes back to 3.0 (I'm an MCPD). I have yet to see Microsoft do anything at all which doesn't adhere to their usual tactics (the nearest is the free VSX IDEs).

Microsoft OS products haven't really evolved a great deal since NT4, there's a lot of new coats of paint but not a great deal of reason to upgrade ; many people still use NT4/2000/XP for that reason (and because no sane person trusts Microsoft 'upgrades' ). More and more people are clueing into this.

Meanwhile there is better and better SaaS (e.g. Google Docs sort of stuff) . All this is pressuring Windows upgrades and the revenue stream ; so they are likely to start charging for features after a year IMO.

There may well be a free version that is horribly limited (like Vista Basic say) just to get people in, but expect Office 365 approach RSN.
Clonkex
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Posted: 9th Mar 2015 12:22
Quote: "I'm an MCPD"


Really? Awesome! That'll be why you always sound like you know exactly what you're talking about despite being so new on these forums

Quote: "Microsoft OS products haven't really evolved a great deal since NT4"


Oh, I don't know... Windows has been evolving pretty steadily underneath over the years. I mean, Windows 8 gained a tickless kernel and everything! We just haven't noticed the updates because, unlike Apple, Microsoft decided to maintain enormous backwards compatibility. Sure, that results in a great deal of rubbish old code still hanging around, but I for one am extremely grateful that they made Windows this way.

Quote: "but expect Office 365 approach RSN"


I'd rather not, if you don't mind. That sounds utterly horrible. Why M$ insists on trying to ruin everything I'll never know...

KultiVator
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Posted: 9th Mar 2015 12:45
This info is from the Microsoft Website - clearly infers that the free upgrade applies for the life of the device, rather than for a 12 month period.

"Free Upgrade Offer*
Great news! We will offer a free upgrade to Windows 10 for qualified new or existing Windows 7, Windows 8.1 and Windows Phone 8.1 devices that upgrade in the first year! And even better: once a qualified Windows device is upgraded to Windows 10, we will continue to keep it up to date for the supported lifetime of the device, keeping it more secure, and introducing new features and functionality over time – for no additional charge."


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KultiVator
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Posted: 9th Mar 2015 13:30
Quote: "Microsoft OS products haven't really evolved a great deal since NT4"


The evolution of the user-facing side of Windows has been disappointing and arguably misguided at times (especially Windows 8.x forcing users down a touch-focused road). But ont he flip side, I have Delphi (Object Pascal) projects and UI code from 1995/96 written for Windows 3.1 that still compiles and runs well on Windows 8.1, often without any changes! This long-term compatibility is a great thing.

However, from a game & multimedia perspective, things have moved on quite a long way, as Direct X and OpenGL have continued to develop and 64-bit platforms open up a lot of opportunities for ambitious projects.

Sadly, the compatibility of a lot of Direct X / OpenGL software from 10-15 years ago has been broken along the line, which is a shame. Thankfully we have people like GoG (Good Old Games) that actively fix many of the issues so that classic games and entertainment from yesteryear can be enjoyed on modern-day rigs.

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paulrobson
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Posted: 9th Mar 2015 15:43
Great news! We will offer a free upgrade to Windows 10 for qualified new or existing Windows 7, Windows 8.1 and Windows Phone 8.1 devices that upgrade in the first year! And even better: once a qualified Windows device is upgraded to Windows 10, we will continue to keep it up to date for the supported lifetime of the device, keeping it more secure, and introducing new features and functionality over time – for no additional charge."

Well apart from it says "no additional charge" (rather than no charge) it's fairly easy to get round this by changing base functionality. (And, oddly, it talks about the 'supported lifetime of the device' (rather than the lifetime of the OS). I'm not even sure what this means, if anything !

I mean, you might be right, but it's a bad move to expect it of MS. (or Apple for that matter).
paulrobson
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Posted: 9th Mar 2015 15:46
Does 8.1 still ship with a copy of DOS ? GoG are good (though I wonder if they build their work on Wine and/or DosBox)
KultiVator
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Posted: 9th Mar 2015 17:38
Quote: "it's a bad move to expect it of MS. (or Apple for that matter)."


I dunno... the times are a changing... Apple has for some time provided OSX and iOS updates free of charge as do Google on the few Android devices that get unfettered platform support (e.g. Nexus devices and Nvidia Shield). This is a practice that has set a precedent for devices that consumers love, treasure and accessorise the most!

Many folks need convincing/reminding that Windows can be more than the thing you use for work tasks and content creation. What better way to rekindle the public's interest than to give every Windows 7 / 8 user a free copy of Windows 10?

At least that's the pitch I'm imagining went on at Microsoft HQ when they last got beaten up by their shareholders over their Windows 8.x mis-steps.

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Greenwich
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Posted: 10th Mar 2015 03:08 Edited at: 10th Mar 2015 20:47
--

It's mean time. *averages*
JohnnyMeek
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Posted: 10th Mar 2015 16:40
This thread has been derailed with the MS chat. It's going to be difficult to extract any meaningful feature requests with so much noise.

Maybe it would be better to clean this thread, and take the MS chat elsewhere.
BatVink
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Posted: 10th Mar 2015 18:16
Unfortunately we can't move individual posts, only full threads. But yes, the Windows conversation needs to continue in its own thread.

Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur
Clonkex
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Posted: 11th Mar 2015 01:22
Oops, didn't realise this wasn't the Windows 10 thread. Just assumed it was for some reason. Sorry 'bout that.

Zdaxxy
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Posted: 12th Mar 2015 14:30
So still no UPC barcode functionality? ~sigh~
Clonkex
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Posted: 13th Mar 2015 00:52
Quote: "So still no UPC barcode functionality? ~sigh~"


If we could get realtime access to the camera data instead of just getting a single photo through the photo app, we could implement it ourselves.

Jambo B
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Posted: 14th Mar 2015 13:29
I think a SetImageSize() command would be useful to crop images.

SetImageSize(ImageID,Width,Height)

...or even

SetImageSize(ImageID,X1,Y1,X2,Y2)


Cheers,

James
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Posted: 14th Mar 2015 14:49
Commands to write memblocks to or read memblocks from i/o files.

Sqlite3 commands.

3d object limb/enhanced animation commands.

Environmental/Skysphere commands.

Terrain commands.

a long time dabbler with DBC and DBPro with no actual talent but lots of enthusiasm...
SpecTre
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Posted: 14th Mar 2015 15:03
AGK2 really needs a native flood fill command. I have really explored this in my own app as many will know and come up with a great way of a flood fill effect however I think the draw commands are quite basic but there is a box command which flood fills so to top it off a flood fill command on its own would be great.

Something like - FloodFill(x,y,newRGB,oldRGB)

I have tried most methods including real flood fill and fake methods to increase speed and unless using a small area, AppGameKit is far too slow to be practical at doing this. A HD app title would be impossible eg screen size of 1280 x 800.
I am thinking of a drawing app which would not be possible without this native command and the speed of the fill as native would hopefully be as fast as changing the sprite colour.
This would be very handy for many tool apps also.

Come to think of it another good command would be an option to get an RGB value from a point on screen, I know this can be done with memblocks as I have done it but this would far simplyfy and speed up the process.

Eg - RGB = Point(x,y)

Even Amos had these 2 commands on the Amiga and they worked really well, so should work great with AGK.

I don't think it would take long for Paul to implement these 2 commands to the drawing functions which are very sparse in AGK.

The Amiga and Amos were great!
Download my game - Paint Pot from Amazon and Google here - http://leap.my-free.website/
Mike Archer
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Posted: 15th Mar 2015 04:09
I'd like to see the addition of PROCEDURE & ENDPROCEDURE, this may seem simple, but being able to separate FUNCTIONS and PROCEDURES in the code and have them identified separately helps a lot to those wishing to do structured programming, as far as the compiled code is concerned a FUNCTION and PROCEDURE are the exact same thing, but they should be split in the IDE, and the difference being you can't return a value from a PROCEDURE. Of course, functions should still act as they are, but if you are writing a function that returns no value you can can define it as a procedure instead.
BatVink
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Posted: 15th Mar 2015 18:08
Is there any reason why you can't use a function with no return parameter? Or use Subs?

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hakimfullmetal
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Posted: 16th Mar 2015 15:27 Edited at: 16th Mar 2015 15:31
Hello. this might be redundant, but

Can the next version have effects that are commonly used for 3D scenes nowdays, such as dynamic soft shadow, fog, ambient occlusion, ect? At least like something in DBPro?

Would be great to have them as internal commands, would really speed up the project. Furthermore, I think it would be easier to attract people to AppGameKit, when they see a game can be easily polished into a presentable look with these commands.
Arbrakan
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Posted: 16th Mar 2015 22:54
Will be AppGameKit able to load .dds file for 3D texture ?

paulrobson
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Posted: 17th Mar 2015 10:54
Most programming languages don't distinguish between methods/procedures that do or don't return a value, they just have a return type of 'void'.
JimHawkins
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Posted: 17th Mar 2015 12:16
Obviously, Pascal does distinguish between procedures and functions. But all the Pascal-derived following languages only use procedure, which may or may not return a value. The distinction was dropped for simplicity, and I always vote for that.

<<It is practically impossible to teach good programming to students that have had a prior exposure to BASIC: as potential programmers they are mentally mutilated beyond hope of regeneration.>> Dijkstra
JimHawkins
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Posted: 17th Mar 2015 13:25
Maybe I should add that any function which is supposed to return a result should get a compiler warning if no result is sensibly defined.

<<It is practically impossible to teach good programming to students that have had a prior exposure to BASIC: as potential programmers they are mentally mutilated beyond hope of regeneration.>> Dijkstra
baxslash
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Posted: 17th Mar 2015 16:06
Not sure what you mean by "sensibly defined"? You do get some pretty good compiler error messages for functions such as if the user implies that he expects a returned value of a particular type but the function does not return what he is expecting.

Using AppGameKit V2 Tier 1
JimHawkins
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Posted: 17th Mar 2015 18:58 Edited at: 17th Mar 2015 18:58
Not returning anything, or returning something that has not be initialised.

<<It is practically impossible to teach good programming to students that have had a prior exposure to BASIC: as potential programmers they are mentally mutilated beyond hope of regeneration.>> Dijkstra
Mike Archer
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Posted: 18th Mar 2015 01:08
I'll try to explain what I meant further, as I don't think I did a good job the first time.. lol

In the IDE, when you click on the 'Sybmols' tab, you get a list of functions in your program, it would be helpful if you could define something as a function or a procedure, purely so in that tab you get 2 separate lists, 1 of functions and one of procedures. Purely for organising your code.

If you defined something as a procedure, then when compiled it would be treated exactly the same as if you had defined it as a function. At a push you could even let procedure return values too. The key is not about the code produced, but purely about how your code is organised in the IDE.

Personally I was always taught to define something that returns no value as a procedure if it is only called from one place in your code, and is there purely to seperate your code into sections, and to define it as a function if it is called from multiple places to perform the same routine under different conditions. (Whether or not it returns a value)

The logic of this is in the future when you edit your code, you can be sure as to whether what you are changing will affect just the bit of code you are working on, or whether it will affect multiple parts of your program.

I'm sure there are many other reasons why other programmers may choose to define something as a function or procedure that may be useful. As it is just a simple case of two keywords that perform the same thing, I considered it worth asking for as a simple change.

However, if it doesn't happen, it's no big deal, as I can simply start all my function names with F_ or P_ to separate them in the list.

Impetus73
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Posted: 18th Mar 2015 08:10
Maybe a tag system, where you can tag functions and blocks of code with names or colors, like red for untested code, and green for code that's tested and finished.

----------------
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Did Amiga / AMOS programming in the 90's.
JimHawkins
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Posted: 18th Mar 2015 11:42
Strictly, a function in maths must always return the same value from the same inputs. Random(x) is not strictly a function because the result varies.

I have never heard it said that a Procedure should only be called once. I have thousands of procedures that are called millions of times from different places. For example, Procedure SetButtonColour(b : tbutton; c :TColor); could be called from different buttons from different places. It's hard to think what a sensible return value would be for this!

<<It is practically impossible to teach good programming to students that have had a prior exposure to BASIC: as potential programmers they are mentally mutilated beyond hope of regeneration.>> Dijkstra
KultiVator
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Posted: 18th Mar 2015 11:55
It's reasonable to assert that the differences between Functions and Procedures are purely academic.

On the flip side of that though, in my experience, many developers do have an expectation that 'proper' languages are those that offer both types of entity. Any language that forces them to adopt sloppy non-classical programming habits is clearly the spawn of satan's poodle!

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JimHawkins
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Posted: 18th Mar 2015 13:21
I don't think it has much to do with habits. It's possible to write unsafe code in any language, as most of us know! But I do think that good compilers help to eliminate potential disasters before they happen at run-time. Strict typing helps enormously here.

The wisdom of the ages is that all functions should be as short as possible. This makes it easier to isolate problems.

<<It is practically impossible to teach good programming to students that have had a prior exposure to BASIC: as potential programmers they are mentally mutilated beyond hope of regeneration.>> Dijkstra
Tito
13
Years of Service
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Joined: 26th Sep 2005
Location:
Posted: 18th Mar 2015 15:54
Pls add to the 1st post list:

- Android Immersive Mode (true Fullscreen in Android)

Requires Android SDK 4+

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