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FPSC Classic Product Chat / [LOCKED] Free Source Release: Lemur V2 Latest Build

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Plystire
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Posted: 3rd Feb 2008 22:06
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Quote: "hey! what happened to bloom?"


Bloom does not provide additional gameplay opportunities. It was never intended to be in Lemur at the start.

I quote myself saying:
Quote: "We are not doing an entire graphical make-over on FPSC. We are mainly trying to concentrate on bringing more FUNCTIONALITY to FPSC. I'm a firm believer in gameplay over graphics. I simply put Bloom in because... well, I was provoked into doing it. It may not even be in the final release if it continues to give me unwarranted issues. (If it isn't, I promise it will be in a subsequent release, so no worries )

Water is guaranteed for Lemur, simply because it ADDS functionality and gameplay features, and as a plus, it looks pretty damn cool."


So, yes, I promise that it WILL be in Lemur sooner or later. Not guaranteed for the first release, though.

To perhaps clarify even MORE, here's a list of what IS NOT guaranteed to be in Lemur V2 but was somehow suggested to be:
- More shaders (Including Bloom)
- DarkAI
- DarkPhysics

Do not expect anything in the above list. If it makes it's way into Lemur V2 by pure chance, then don't expect us to tell you about it before release, either.


The one and only,
~PlystirE~

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Plystire
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Posted: 3rd Feb 2008 22:09
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@TGPEG:

Minimum specs are being worked on, but we're thinking that the minimum specs are going to be the same as FPSC itself. Water will have a cheap alternative for speed purposes, so that people on a low spec machine can still have Water to play around with. (This is thanks to everyone's votes that I have tallied up)

Right now, the minimum reqs to run Lemur have not been set in stone, but we are shooting for a rather low min req.


The one and only,
~PlystirE~

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Bloodeath 6 6 6
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Posted: 3rd Feb 2008 22:11 Edited at: 3rd Feb 2008 22:12
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Quote: "So, yes, I promise that it WILL be in Lemur sooner or later. Not guaranteed for the first release, though."



so its not gonna be in inital release at v2, if not you lost my money right with that sentence, thats the main reason why im buying lemur now, is just for the bloom, i dig it. and besides havent you already implemented it in?

You'll Know When You See It.

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Gunn3r
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Posted: 3rd Feb 2008 22:17
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Plystire, I'm a tester also, but I'm not sure most of the Lemur team knows about it. I tested the build that was originally released here, and then have only given suggestions as to what Lemur should do next. If you need anything tested, send it over my way.

[url=http://gunn3rgames.zxq.net]
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Plystire
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Posted: 3rd Feb 2008 22:26
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Quote: "and besides havent you already implemented it in?"


Yes, and it works... but it breaks a lot of other core entities in FPSC. I know why it breaks them and there doesn't seem to be a way to keep it from breaking them (It's one of those rare hardcore bugs). That's why I'm holding off on implementing it. I'm sorry we may not be able to fulfill your main motivation in buying Lemur, but I hope you'll come look us up once it has been implemented correctly and I have faith in saying that it would work flawlessly, and not to your dissatisfaction.


@gunn3r:

Currently, I'm not aware of any testers aside from the ones that I was made aware of earlier in development. I don't believe we are in need of more testers right now, though. Thank you for your offer.


The one and only,
~PlystirE~

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Gunn3r
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Posted: 3rd Feb 2008 22:29
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Interesting. Steve's filled me in on the latest developments... Like what the future looks like for Lemur and such. I've been in since the first beta, so I'm not sure why I wasn't on that list of testers... Weird.

[url=http://gunn3rgames.zxq.net]
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Bloodeath 6 6 6
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Posted: 3rd Feb 2008 22:30 Edited at: 3rd Feb 2008 22:57
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i knew lemur had to be blasphemy! i called it some odd pages back.
edit
Quote: "I'm sorry we may not be able to fulfill your main motivation in buying Lemur, but I hope you'll come look us up once it has been implemented correctly and I have faith in saying that it would work flawlessly, and not to your dissatisfaction. "



You did fulfill my "motivation" but then you took it away
lol

You'll Know When You See It.

Death has no end
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fallen one
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Posted: 3rd Feb 2008 22:30
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If your going for gamelay, id sort out the clipping, enemies being killed and then being half in and half out of a wall, also all that running on the spot with enemies or running into a wall, those 2 make fpsc a joke, so if that was sorted then that would be an inprovement for sure.

Evil Things Most Foulhttp://www.avantivitastudios.com/
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CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 3rd Feb 2008 22:40
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I think they've fixed that...

or at least, i hope they have...


http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=121755&b=25
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TGPEG
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Posted: 3rd Feb 2008 22:56
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@Plystire: Good idea.

[center]
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Jon Fletcher
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Posted: 4th Feb 2008 00:04
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Quote: "Been done in Lemur- check the timerbased vid here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elXhs80Q8aA
Check the shaders here:
http://www.youtube.com/v/cNiJoUnVj2o
"


my dear sweet Jesus, why have i only just come across this!?!

that looks absolutely amazing, the bloom works absolutely brilliantly, and doesn't over saturate anything, yet at the same time can have a huge radius.

im looking extremely forward to seeing where this goes, im sure i and many others would pay for this kind of upgrade. (if it were allowed, ya know, the whole source mod license)

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Plystire
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Posted: 4th Feb 2008 00:33
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@gunn3r:

You weren't on the list of testers supplied to me, but I'll look into it a little more thoroughly later on.

@bloodeath:

I'm not taking it away, lol. I'm simply saying that until I can get it in there and have everything still WORKING, then I'll put it in and leave it in. If you'll notice that in my demo of Bloom, not once did I ever walk through a doorway...
...
....
Yeah.

@fallen one:

You're absolutely right. It would be swell if we could find the source of issues such as those. We've actually taken time to look into things like that, but have naught to show for it.

@Jon Fletcher:

Why, thank you for those kind words.

We have already looked into the user license for the source and have decided that if the engine were to come with a game that we intended to sell, then that would not be prohibited by the license agreement, and so... we're selling a game that will bring the Lemur engine with it.


The one and only,
~PlystirE~

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Gunn3r
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Posted: 4th Feb 2008 00:42
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Plystire, Sorry for pushing this. I didn't want to start anything between us. I was just curious as to why I wasn't on the list. Reading over it, I kind of made it sound like it was your mistake for not reading the list right. Sorry about that. I am talking with Urlforce about this, and we're getting it squared away.

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Plystire
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Posted: 4th Feb 2008 00:46
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Alright, I'll get an update from him when I get back to my working cave


The one and only,
~PlystirE~

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Gunn3r
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Posted: 4th Feb 2008 00:49
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Ok. Cool. Honored to work with you and the rest of the Lemur team.

[url=http://gunn3rgames.zxq.net]
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Airslide
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Posted: 4th Feb 2008 02:34
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Plystire - Any problems with bloom/water might have been related to the sync rate. Make sure to always multiply the sync cap by the number of cameras - However, I've removed the need for the sync cap entirely with my timing system, so it shouldn't be a problem.

I noticed that the version of Lemur you guys originally sent me played havoc with my timing code. 107 works with it perfectly - I'm guessing it's the multiple cameras you had with the water. Or, possibly more likely, I put my timerUpdate() code where S4 had his and that might have been being called up to 3 times per loop. I dunno. It works now though

For anyone wanted a progress update, physics, animations, decals (well....decals except the ones you place like fire), weapon systems and most everything are now working under the timing system. This also means I've removed the sync cap - Lemur will run at the maximum possible on your computer. For mine it's between 250 and 300 fps (don't expect these to be average results, I have an 8800 and a quad-core sitting in my computer)

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Plystire
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Posted: 4th Feb 2008 02:43
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Yeah, well as soon as water goes into the source, the framerate's coming down with it.

Also, I already know why Bloom was messing up. It wasn't related to sync rate, it was related to something out of my hands. It was required for Bloom to work and yet it was the source of the trouble it gave me.

Don't worry about it.. I may be able to find some other methods of getting bloom to work, though.


The one and only,
~PlystirE~

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Gunn3r
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Posted: 4th Feb 2008 03:01
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Airslide, that sounds great! Even Call of Duty 4 didn't reach that framerate. It was 60 the whole way through. Although, Plystire's right. As soon as an effect is implemented, the framerate will tank...

[url=http://gunn3rgames.zxq.net]
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Airslide
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Posted: 4th Feb 2008 03:04
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Well as long as the sync rate is adjusted for the extra cameras, hopefully the water won't do too bad. Also, for the low-quality water, you could use a decal (from the sprite pack, for example) and tile that over the water plain - then scroll the texture so it looks animated. Or you could just use a smooth-scrolling water, that would probably look better come to think of it.

Also, are you programming in splashes and such? I can see why you'd want to hold that off but just a though.

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Plystire
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Posted: 4th Feb 2008 03:29
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@Airslide:

Trust me, I've been thinking of everything you've said weeks before.

The sync rate has long since been accounted for when extra cameras are used. And you only need to account for the extra cameras if they are going to be synced at a different time than the screen camera.

I will worry about splashes and the minor details when everything else has been finished.


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Airslide
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Posted: 4th Feb 2008 03:32
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When using water in an old DBP project I synced 'em at the same time and still had to account for it.

I dunno what was causing the problem before, maybe poorly placed code, or some other major bug we had that I wasn't aware of.

I'm closing in on the time to send the timing system to Dave. Still fixing some bugs. I can pretty much garauntee a stable game at 30 fps or higher, have yet to really test low framerates. Anything above 15 or even 10 should be good, but I know if you get down to 5 the physics engine gets mad and sometimes the weapon animations.

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Plystire
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Posted: 4th Feb 2008 07:22
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Well, have you tried simply setting the sync rate to like... 5?

Test it like that.

Also, how about emailing these sorta updates? We'll save posting on the board for major occurances, ok?


The one and only,
~PlystirE~

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Pegasus
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Posted: 4th Feb 2008 12:07
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Hi!

Do I have asked here in the forum where could I find lemur for buy it or/and download it, but don't I find my tread more, could tell anybody to me where could I find lemur?
Thank you.
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GAME MAKER ITALIA
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Posted: 4th Feb 2008 14:00 Edited at: 5th Feb 2008 21:05
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I think is present in the next fpsc update..
Version 108 of fpsc.

Now i think must wait v.108 of fpsc.
Lee work at it. "if i understand good"

Lol..

Wait v.108 fpsc update for use it..

PS:"is very big mod lemur -i don't want to speech about lemur is mod ..LEMUR is LEMUR -for me is the solution of 98% of the fpsc questions"
If all wait "you can wait"

PS about other project: Anyone think to put one "auto update function in FPSC??"
If exist update for fpsc in the traybar you can see one icon and if you click it you can update your fpsc..
I think is good integration.

SETTIMO TUDOR EUGEN C.
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butyouman
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Posted: 4th Feb 2008 14:36
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I Have 2 guestions

1. How much is lemur gana cost

2.Whens is coming out

Jfac rules
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Plystire
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Posted: 4th Feb 2008 15:34
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I have one answer for all of your questions:

I don't know.




The one and only,
~PlystirE~

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Cyborg ART
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Posted: 4th Feb 2008 16:53
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Quote: "Hi!

Do I have asked here in the forum where could I find lemur for buy it or/and download it, but don't I find my tread more, could tell anybody to me where could I find lemur?
Thank you. "


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemur

Just kidding with you, but It isnt released yet. They say in the end of febrary or something.

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Colonel Jax
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Posted: 4th Feb 2008 17:39
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looks coOOol

Your signature has been erased by a mod because it was too big
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Airslide
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Posted: 5th Feb 2008 01:22
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Quote: "Well, have you tried simply setting the sync rate to like... 5?"


Yea, I meant testing the range of 10-25. I already tried it at 5 (the u key) which has some rather ODD results, but the game is virtually unplayable at that low a framerate anyways. I've done more testing and it seems to be stable at as low as 10 fps.

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Plystire
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Posted: 5th Feb 2008 06:57
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unplayable? Lol, I played all of HL2 at less than 10 fps(And 5 minute loading times)... simply because I didn't have a better computer to play on at the time.


The one and only,
~PlystirE~

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Airslide
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Posted: 5th Feb 2008 16:36
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I mean FPSC is unplayable - unfortunetly I can't stabilize the timing system and such as well as Valve could for Source


FPSC Utilities Page
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force master
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Posted: 5th Feb 2008 21:48
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I had pretty much given up on all of this FPSC stuff until I see LEE announce Head shots are coming and then I seen this.

You complete me by me I mean my game
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Plystire
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Posted: 5th Feb 2008 22:27
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Lol, force master.

Yes, but I think Lee could have taken it a step further and made each limb have it's own hitbox, that way you could have giant bosses where they would only take damage in the arm or something like that. You know... like weak spots.

Maybe after the V108 source gets handed out, the Lemur team could take a look into doing that for everyone. (Just saying that it's a possibility, not saying we will)

@Airslide:

Well, do your best, if we can have a damn near perfectly timer based movement system working at or above 10 fps, then i think most everyone will be happy. Honestly, I don't think anyone should be even considering developing on a machine that can't run their own game above 10 fps, lol.


The one and only,
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force master
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Posted: 5th Feb 2008 23:11
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Any chance you all need a graphic designer on your team?

I can do pretty great stuff with photoshop and fireworks.
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Plystire
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Posted: 5th Feb 2008 23:37
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As of right now we have all the needed positions filled.

If we have a need for a graphic designer, I'll keep you in mind for a potential.


The one and only,
~PlystirE~

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Plystire
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Posted: 6th Feb 2008 01:45
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Big News for bloodeath (And everyone else who was agonizing themselves over Bloom in Lemur)

Bloom got fixed!!

It works now without bugs (from what I can tell), it looks 10x better, and it seems to be much more efficient!

To quote the Merovingian from The Matrix, "I do not know exactly... how - it happened..."

I haven't slept in over 24 hours now (started hallucinating images on the wall again), I'm pumped full of nicotine, and I had a few drinks just before it started working.

But, at least it works!!! I can proudly say that Bloom is now officially going to be in the Lemur V2 release!


The one and only,
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Keo C
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Posted: 6th Feb 2008 02:01
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Quote: "and I had a few drinks just before it started working."




Image made by the overworked Biggadd.
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Plystire
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Posted: 6th Feb 2008 02:06
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Lmao, I was just thinking of that comic when I posted.


The one and only,
~PlystirE~

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Rick123
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Posted: 6th Feb 2008 02:31
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I have a few questions:

1. Will Lemur V2 support rag doll physics?

2. Will the water in Lemur V2 act realistically? What I mean is if you filled up a room with water, then had the player start in another room, then if the player shot out the window that had the water on the other side, would the water come rushing in, or would it be static?

3. Will Lemur V2 have a real time properties menu in the test game build? For example - Be able to change the amount or color of water while testing the game.
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Jeremiah
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Posted: 6th Feb 2008 02:44 Edited at: 6th Feb 2008 02:50
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I like your implementation of the screen shot.

Very clean and quick




I assume for darkbasic there is no way to do a self creating array. To allow for unlimited user define taunts instead of this.

Otherwise though, clean an effecient

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Jeremiah
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Posted: 6th Feb 2008 02:56 Edited at: 6th Feb 2008 03:16
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Is it really worth it to buy this dark basic book.

http://darkbasicpro.thegamecreators.com/?f=hands_on_vol2
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Gunn3r
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@Rick123, I don't have answers to 1 & 2, and I would like to know them, but 3 I can answer. Lemur does have a real time properties menu in the test game. Plystire has shown it off up above, and I must say, I am jealous. The amount of water, color of water, reflection, refraction... etc... of water can be changed as well as bloom, fog, and ambience levels. All in one easy to use in game menu.

[url=http://gunn3rgames.zxq.net]
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Plystire
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Posted: 6th Feb 2008 03:20
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Ragdoll is not planned on being implemented into Lemur V2.

Lemur does not support true volume water. In fact, I'd actually like to see a game that has water acting like it is described above in real-time.

The water in Lemur V2 is a static, set level that will be the same across your entire level until you change the water's height. Used effectively, the water can appear to be in many different levels. (I.E. No water in the room, you walk up stairs, through the hall turn the corner and go down stairs into a water filled room that is on the same layer as the previous room that had no water)

@Jeremiah:
The taunts have been re-worked for Lemur V2 to be more efficient in code (it got worked all the way down to a single line of code instead of that entire block, lol). And we were not the ones who implemented the screenshot, that is the original screenshot code from FPSC V101.


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Jeremiah
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Posted: 6th Feb 2008 03:25 Edited at: 6th Feb 2008 03:26
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@plystire really.. I was not even aware that feature existed. (*pulls head from arse)


Are you planning any sort of air system. Like so long beneath ($z) oxygen meter kicks in?

I am sure not for this version, but later down the road?
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Jeremiah
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Posted: 6th Feb 2008 03:28
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I did notice they are now including the 1.7 source code in db 6.6 upgrade.

I need to get a compare and contrast program and see what all changes you made.. I did notice that the version you have for download in only about 200 lines more. How many more lines is version 2 going to be?
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Bloodeath 6 6 6
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Posted: 6th Feb 2008 03:33 Edited at: 6th Feb 2008 03:36
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Quote: "Big News for bloodeath (And everyone else who was agonizing themselves over Bloom in Lemur) "


Bloodeath is pleased. lol

Are you gonna make a video for it by chance? since you said it looks uber better

edit -

or even a screeny?

You'll Know When You See It.

Death has no end
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Plystire
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Posted: 6th Feb 2008 03:34
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You can easily script such a system with the commands that Lemur V2 will provide you.

Here's a quick example:


If you give that to an entity that is always active, it will literally control your character's "Air".

With the script above, the player will have 1.5 seconds of "free time" underwater where they don't lose any air value. After that it will begin to take off 10 Air units (Starting from 500) every second. Once the air value reaches 0, the player will lose 10 health after every second they remain underwater!



See how much power the user is given when using Water in Lemur V2?


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Plystire
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Posted: 6th Feb 2008 03:40 Edited at: 6th Feb 2008 03:40
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@Bloodeath:

In order to see the difference between my last video and the new Bloom effect, you would have to know about the "catch-up" effect that the last one had. Where when you moved the camera, the bloom effect kinda played a little game of "catch-up" with the scene and you could literally see it actively blurring your environment. This newer version doesn't do that anymore and the blurWidth for the Bloom looks much better than before at low settings (IMHO).


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Jeremiah
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Posted: 6th Feb 2008 03:43 Edited at: 6th Feb 2008 03:43
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I think we need you all to just take over all of the updates. If you guys can keep coming up this kind of work. I will happily pay you whatever you need to keep doing it. You have also inspired me to get off my ass and to really spend time learning Dark Basic so that maybe just maybe I can contribute to the cause.


btw you are my new hero
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Bloodeath 6 6 6
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Posted: 6th Feb 2008 03:43
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Ooh ok, so you mean it performs x1000 better by not giving you graphical problems? lol anyways, im excited for this again lol

You'll Know When You See It.

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