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DarkBASIC Discussion / Dark Noob Games HQ

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Libervurto
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Posted: 3rd Aug 2010 21:46 Edited at: 8th Aug 2010 19:49
You have a good knowledge of commands, the only problem is your structure.
If I was grading your program I'd give you:
Commands: A
Structure: D
Presentation: B
Remarks: B
OVERALL: B-

Commands - Very good. Lots of different commands used well, good to see things like NewValue and CurveValue being used.

Structure - I gave you a D because you have a subroutine inside the main loop, this is probably why your program isn't working because it is executing your subroutine every loop, just like any other code, whether you call it or not. There is also no return statement at the end of your "subroutine", this is a problem because when you call a subroutine with gosub the program remembers the place it called the subroutine from so it can return there when the routine is finished (unlike goto). If there's no return statement you will keep calling your subroutine and storing the position it was called at over and over again until there is a stack overflow (which means you run out of memory) and your program will crash. If you put a return statement then the program will return to the right spot and remove the record of the return position from the stack.
A minor problem with your structure is that your main loop isn't in the best order, this wont cause a crash but it's better to get the right order. I've labeled each process with the subsection it should be in; I've removed the subroutine as we now know this shouldn't be there.

If you read my coding guidelines you'll know what I'm talking about here, if not there is a link on the first post of this thread.
Here is your code re-organised so all the same types are together; these blocks can be made into subroutines later.

You may wonder why there is are no output blocks, that's because when you use 3D Dark Basic does all the output for you! We might want to switch to manual sync'ing though because DB is not very good at judging when to refresh the screen.
Now we can begin to group these blocks into subroutines. If you look at your comments you've already recognized blocks that do a specific job, now you just need to make subroutines of them. Your comment headings are:
* Control input for our camera
* Rotate Camera
* Position Camera
I'd add a fourth: Fire Bullet. The two camera routines can be merged because they both deal with the camera. You might then say "why don't I just put Fire Bullet in with the Camera Input?", well we don't want vague subroutines like "Input" because that doesn't tell us what's in there and we can't execute a specific bit when needed, so it defeats the point of having a subroutine. We could just as well put the entire program into one big subroutine but again this would be pointless.
A clue to which routines you can group together is the variables they use; if they use the same variables, like the camera routines, you can put them in the same routine because the fact they use the same variables means they are dependent on each other already so they might as well be in the same place. However, there may be circumstances where you want to execute only part of the routine, in this case split it up into two.
That's enough waffling about that. Here's the edited program with subroutines:

I've taken out a few of your comments, while they were useful to show me what you understand I've only left the ones in that would be in a normal program. Everything before the main loop is fine.

Presentation - On the whole good. There were no markers to show the different sections of the program (e.g. "=== SUBROUTINES ===") but there was enough white space to make it easy to follow. Indentation was mainly consistent with one or two errors (most people use two spaces instead of a tab so you can have more layers without it running off the page).

Remarks - Good. In some parts there was not enough commenting, in others there was too much. Try to be more to the point with your explanations and focus on the bits of code that would take time to understand without comments.

Sidenote - The gun still wont fire properly, can you tell why? The only routine that deals with bullets is the playershoot sub, which is only called when spacekey() is pressed. So the bullet will only be moved once. The bulletlife will only dec once so it will never be below 60 for the sub to be called again! What you need to do is to turn this sub into two subs, one that creates bullets (fires them), and one that moves bullets and reduces their life. The second routine is called every loop of the main but the first is only called when the user presses the fire key.

Shadow000
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Posted: 4th Aug 2010 20:43 Edited at: 4th Aug 2010 20:51
I have 2 things to say: 1) Thanks.
2)For the last bullet part: OOPS

BTW, you haven't told me (or any other member I believe) what project we will be working on.

Edit: Is it gonna be space invaders?
PS. I changed the bit about playershoot. The code is now:

Will this work?
PS.2 My project still compiles to a black screen!

-The only thing that doesn't require effort is nothing.
-If there's something in this world that you can't buy, that's experience.
BN2 Productions
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Posted: 4th Aug 2010 22:59
Solved your black screen problem, you forgot to put Sync into the main loop. Remember, even though you set Sync Rate, you STILL have to manually refresh the screen with the SYNC command since you turned it on (First line: SYNC ON). Throw it in the loop right before the LOOP command

Great Quote:
"Time...LINE??? Time isn't made out of lines...it is made out of circles. That is why clocks are round!" -Caboose
Libervurto
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Posted: 4th Aug 2010 23:41 Edited at: 4th Aug 2010 23:44
@Shadow000
Your new sub will work but it hangs around in the sub until the bullet has expired, that means you can't do anything else until the bullet dies.
If you split it in half...

Now we have separate subs for firing (creating) a bullet and moving it, this means we can do these actions independently so we can keep moving the bullet after it has been fired, and now there's no loop we can continue to do stuff like move around while the bullet is moving.

Libervurto
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Posted: 5th Aug 2010 11:52
Welcome to Daygamer, xxelixx and Eminent, our newest members.
Now we have enough people we can start talking about what kind of game we're going to make, any suggestions? Try to keep it simple, we want a game we can finish in two or three weeks before we move on to harder stuff.

Suggestions so far: Space Invaders, Centipede, Asteroids, Lunar Lander.

Shadow000
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Posted: 5th Aug 2010 14:17
A text adventure perhaps? Or a 2d racer?
And thanks for the code! Does work now, and It's not a black screen!

-The only thing that doesn't require effort is nothing.
-If there's something in this world that you can't buy, that's experience.
Daygamer
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Posted: 5th Aug 2010 16:49
hi all. I'm a new noob. thanks for the invatation, OBese87.

I guess you probably want to see something I've written. I hope this isn't to big. It's a section from my current project right now. It's a simple stock market.



Coding is just better with music(preferably Owl City!)
Have a nice day, God Bless You!
Shadow000
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Posted: 5th Aug 2010 19:03
Nice, but you should put a bit that prevents you from buying anything if your chash is 0 or - something. Here's something basic to work from, replace things in brackets with what you use. It's not complete, but it's just about what I can give you


-The only thing that doesn't require effort is nothing.
-If there's something in this world that you can't buy, that's experience.
Eminent
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Posted: 5th Aug 2010 23:03 Edited at: 6th Aug 2010 01:38
If we do a Text Adventure you can use the text battle system I made:

The screen res should be 800x600.
Daygamer
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Posted: 6th Aug 2010 00:28
Quote: "you should put a bit that prevents you from buying anything if your chash is 0"


Yes, I will do that sometime down the road. It's an incomplete project. But I like how you did it in your code. thanks for the idea!

Coding is just better with music(preferably Owl City!)
Have a nice day, God Bless You!
Libervurto
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Posted: 6th Aug 2010 05:25
Thanks for posting. It's a bit late for me to look at your code now but I'll go through it like I did with shadows and get back to you both.

BN2 Productions
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Posted: 6th Aug 2010 05:46 Edited at: 6th Aug 2010 05:48
@Eminent
VERY quickly looked over your code (not thoroughly, don't have time right now, but a quick once over). Couple tips:

Remember to comment your code. It does several things. 1) Lets US know what YOU are doing and why, which is very helpful if we are trying to help you debug it. 2) It helps YOU know what YOU are doing, that is, when you open your program again for the first time in a few weeks you don't have to spend time thinking "What one Earth was I doing here???". 3) It helps you figure out WHAT to do. Frequently I will write large chunks of my program in English through comments and then, once the idea is fully defined, its much easier to put it to code.

The other thing is you have LOTS of IF->THENS. While not bad to do, it really makes things explode. There are a couple ways to reduce these. One is to simplify using arrays (store all monster data into arrays and then you can reference them with a single variable that corresponds to the monsters number) and math constructs. For instance, I could write:



And so on all the way to Z. Or I could do this:




As you can see, I did the same thing in 2 lines (I kinda over-commented the second example to explain what exactly is going on, but its always better to be TOO thorough rather than not thorough enough).

A final way to help cut down large sections of If-Thens is to use the SELECT-CASE-ENDCASE-ENDSELECT commands. This won't exactly cut down on space but it does improve readability. Here is how it works.
Before:


After


You can break up the Case-Endcase chuncks as you would an If-Then, but your program readability suffers greatly. If you only have a few commands for each case, you can separate them with a :, like so:



Alternatively, like I said, you could do it this way:


But as you can see, it is much bigger and much MUCH harder on the eyes.

Hope this helps a little bit.

Great Quote:
"Time...LINE??? Time isn't made out of lines...it is made out of circles. That is why clocks are round!" -Caboose
Daygamer
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Posted: 6th Aug 2010 08:14
yes, thanks for the tips. I appreciate the detail. It will be very helpful to keep in mind.

Coding is just better with music(preferably Owl City!)
Have a nice day, God Bless You!
That1Smart Guy
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Posted: 6th Aug 2010 20:46
hey guys, long time no see

i havent had the time to read thru all the posts ive missed, so could someone summarize the current project and team (if there is one)?

and btw i dont have a whole lot of free time but i have started programming again, altho the majority of it is C++ and DarkGDK, and if u needed another experienced programmer id be happy to help a lil

BN2 Productions
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Posted: 6th Aug 2010 21:39
Welcome back smartguy. NO current project, the last one kinda fizzled, again. We're working on getting it back up and running.

Currently the team is:

Obese is lead, I kinda float in and out

Noobs (no offense guys):
Daygamer, Eminent, Shadow000, xxelixx

Next project once the ball gets rolling will probably be something along the lines of space invaders/centipede/Asteroids/Lunar Lander.

Great Quote:
"Time...LINE??? Time isn't made out of lines...it is made out of circles. That is why clocks are round!" -Caboose
pictionaryjr
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Posted: 6th Aug 2010 23:38
just do space invaders. its easy to give out tasks for it and split it up evenly. and its not hard to complete.

Daygamer
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Posted: 7th Aug 2010 00:54
yes, I like the space invaders idea best.

Coding is just better with music(preferably Owl City!)
Have a nice day, God Bless You!
Eminent
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Posted: 7th Aug 2010 02:32
Ehh why not.
Sinani201
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Posted: 7th Aug 2010 05:30
Space invaders or snake are probably the best options for these newcomers. Go for it!

Look at your sig. Now look at mine. Now look at your sig. Now look at mine. Now look at your sig. Now BACK TO MINE.
That1Smart Guy
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Posted: 7th Aug 2010 06:15
sounds like a plan. i wont sign a contract saying ill have time every day to devote to this, but ill try and float in a couple times a week at least. just give me a task and ill see what i can do

also if u ever hve to reach me ASAP to see if im working or forgot about the project then email me at:

bcaudell95@gmail.com

Libervurto
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Posted: 7th Aug 2010 07:41 Edited at: 8th Aug 2010 19:47
Space Invaders it is

Daygamer, I've started going over your code, I've left it pretty late so I'm a bit tired to finish grading you but here's some things I picked up on...

Commands
You puzzled me with your use of Do loops. The reason you puzzled me is because you used Do loops like for loops with your own counter instead of using a for loop, but you used for loops in other parts of the program??? Is there a reason why you did this?

You wrote a bit of code to prevent a mouseclick being registered more than once repeat until mouseclick()=0 which is good that you fixed that problem. However, this method halts the program while waiting for the user to release the mouse button. That may not be a problem for your stock market simulator but for a real-time game it would be very noticeable. The way to solve this is with flags; if you haven't heard of them flags are variables that are set to 1 or 0 to indicate that something is on or off. Mouseclick() is a bit like a flag, it indicates which buttons are being pressed and which aren't with a number.

For this job we need two flags; let's call them OldMouse and NewMouse. NewMouse will store the newest value of Mouseclick() each loop. OldMouse stores the value of NewMouse before it is updated (so OldMouse gets the value that was used by NewMouse in the previous loop). Checking if NewMouse is greater than Oldmouse will tell us whether or not the mouse button was pressed during the current loop. If they are equal then either the mouse button was already being pressed in the last loop (1=1) or it hasn't been pressed in either loop (0=0). If OldMouse is greater than NewMouse the button has been released in this loop (you can use this to act on release of buttons). Clever huh? Here's the code...

Notice how the message is only printed once? That shows it is working like we want it to. I call this code a trip switch because it acts a bit like one; activating once and then waits to be reset.

Structure
It's those Do loops again lol: You used them in subroutines which is a big no-no. Do loops shouldn't really be used at all because they have to be forcefully broken out of which makes program flow hard to follow, but most people use them for main loops because they're easy and the main loop is usually never broken out of so there's no flow issues.

I think all of the code in the main loop could have been made into subroutines, but you did say this was a work in progress so I'll let you off that one.

Your subroutine called "on_every_loop" is too general, it does too many different jobs to be useful as a subroutine. The purpose of subroutines is to perform a specific task that we can repeat when we want. Say I wanted to print the info bar without advancing time, I couldn't, I'd have to make a new subroutine and move the info bar code to it. Then we could rename "on_every_loop" to "update_stock_prices" or something like that, so you see each would be doing a specific task. If you have to give vague names to subroutines then they're too vague to be subroutines.

Presentation
Your indenting is a bit inconsistent, you seem to forget to indent the first level of loops and subroutines. You use too many spaces for indenting (six on my count), I use two, if you can adjust your tab size or just use spaces it would make your code easier to read and stop it going off the page.

One of your subroutines is called "on_every_loop", it stood out because looking at that name tells me nothing about it. Try to give your subs descriptive names.

You clearly marked where your subroutines started which helped me find them.

Remarks
There are some good comments in there that explained the more complex parts of your code, but a few were needless like "let's turn sync on" (if they don't know what sync on does then god help them ).

[edit]

Grades
Commands: C
Structure: D
Presentation: C
Remarks: A
Overall: C+

AJAtom
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Posted: 7th Aug 2010 17:47 Edited at: 7th Aug 2010 17:51
I will join this.

I guess I'll post some code of something to show my experience....

controls:up key you go up, down key you go down, and space to fire
if the number at the top left reaches zero you lose, 5 points added for blocks shot and 10 points subtracted for blocks that pass.
survive for however long you can.

Daygamer
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Posted: 7th Aug 2010 18:19
Fun program, AJAtom. Glad you want to join.

Thanks for the comments on my code, Obese. I've coded for several years by myself, and I've obviously developed some bad habits. I'm glad to be active in the forums now and realizing the stupid things I do. lol. I’ll keep in mind what you’ve said. Thanks!

Coding is just better with music(preferably Owl City!)
Have a nice day, God Bless You!
Shadow000
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Posted: 7th Aug 2010 18:32 Edited at: 7th Aug 2010 19:06
As much as I can understand, I'm more of a beginner that any of you. I'm really gonna need some help catching up!

EDIT: Point out to us the website to get the images and stuff. Thanks.

-The only thing that doesn't require effort is nothing.
-If there's something in this world that you can't buy, that's experience.
AJAtom
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Posted: 7th Aug 2010 18:45
not really Shadow, I can't do 3D at all.
Shadow000
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Posted: 7th Aug 2010 19:16 Edited at: 7th Aug 2010 19:26
It's just like 2D, but with a bit more code for camera, movement and enemies. I find it easier than 2D, mainly because I didn't do a 2D project yet . I fail at AI.

-The only thing that doesn't require effort is nothing.
-If there's something in this world that you can't buy, that's experience.
Eminent
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Posted: 8th Aug 2010 00:21
If I were to revise my project using what BN2 said ,how would I do it?
For the Weapons sub routine I have this:

Doesnt work though.
For the charge sub I have this:
Dunno if it workd cuz the program cant get past the Weapons subroutine.
BN2 Productions
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Posted: 8th Aug 2010 01:11
@Eminent
Here is how I would approach the multiple data sources.

Here is the messy but effective way:


A cleaner way (though I would suggest waiting to implement till you are at the finishing stages of the program) is to put together your arrays and then use the SAVE ARRAY command, which will save it to an external file. You only have to do this once ever. Then at the beginning of your program you just use LOAD ARRAY to bring in all the data. Its usually nice to just have a separate program that will create and fill out the arrays and then your main program just loads it.

Program 1:


Main Program:


Let me know if this makes sense (take more from the idea rather than the code itself).

Also I noticed this line:
Quote: "` make an array(IDK why?) "

Do you understand how array's work/are used? If not, we can help with that.

Great Quote:
"Time...LINE??? Time isn't made out of lines...it is made out of circles. That is why clocks are round!" -Caboose
Daygamer
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Posted: 8th Aug 2010 02:07
Quote: "put together your arrays and then use the SAVE ARRAY command"


That's cool, BN2. What kind of external file would you save it too?

Coding is just better with music(preferably Owl City!)
Have a nice day, God Bless You!
That1Smart Guy
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Posted: 8th Aug 2010 02:18
if i recall correctly, it saves arrays into their own file type (.arr i think), which can then be-reloaded using LOAD ARRAY (correct me if im wrong)

Eminent
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Posted: 8th Aug 2010 04:28
I know what arrays do. I made that program a few days after I got DBP. When I use the weapons in another subroutine like Charge, I want to refer to WeaponSR not WeaponString$ is you know what I mean. How would I do that?
BN2 Productions
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Posted: 8th Aug 2010 08:33
You can use any extension (In their examples they don't even use one). I personally always use a .arr extension because (as far as I know) it isn't officially used by anything else and when I see the file, I know that it is an array file for my program.

Great Quote:
"Time...LINE??? Time isn't made out of lines...it is made out of circles. That is why clocks are round!" -Caboose
Shadow000
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Posted: 8th Aug 2010 15:13
Just a question. When are we starting on the project? The sooner we start, the sooner we'll learn .

-The only thing that doesn't require effort is nothing.
-If there's something in this world that you can't buy, that's experience.
Libervurto
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Posted: 8th Aug 2010 20:30 Edited at: 8th Aug 2010 20:31
I will start a new thread for the project.

Shadow000
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Posted: 8th Aug 2010 21:35
Give us the link(s) to the pictures, animations and things we'll need. Thanks.

-The only thing that doesn't require effort is nothing.
-If there's something in this world that you can't buy, that's experience.
mitch793
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Posted: 8th Aug 2010 23:09
Did anyone actually create a sig?
If not, then here is one I made:


[url=http://steamcard.com/]

Libervurto
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Posted: 8th Aug 2010 23:15 Edited at: 8th Aug 2010 23:18
The link to the project thread is on the first post.

[edit]
Thanks mitch

please copy this into your signatures folks


AJAtom
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Posted: 8th Aug 2010 23:40 Edited at: 8th Aug 2010 23:42
are you ever going to "access" me and eminent or is there no point?
I dont really see a purpose.

Libervurto
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Posted: 9th Aug 2010 00:00
AJAtom, I had a look through your code...

Commands
You have a good knowledge of commands. One small thing I noticed is you used spritey1=spritey1-2 when you could have used dec spritey1,2 it's just easier (if you are unfamiliar with dec, look up inc and dec in the help file).

"handonkey" was your way of stopping multiple keypresses being registered when the player holds the space key. Have a look at my comments on Daygamer's code for a neater way to do that (his was for the mouse button, look for OldMouse and NewMouse in the text).

Structure
You used subroutines and functions well except for your last sub "endgame" which has no return statement. If you want an end routine you could do something like this:


You sometimes do the same check more than once, like in your "enemyprop" sub you check if the enemy exists three times and also check if it doesn't exist. This can be cut down to a single if else statement.


Presentation
I had to look for quite a while to find your DO statement. Your indentation was sporadic; sometimes you'd get it right, other times you forget or indent where it isn't needed.

Remarks
You marked blocks of code with headers, but you didn't really explain what they were doing or why.

Grades
Commands: A
Structure: A
Presentation: C
Remarks: E
Overall: B-

Libervurto
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Posted: 9th Aug 2010 00:18
I've posted your first tasks on the project thread.
Post there for anything concerning the project.

xxelixx
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Posted: 9th Aug 2010 02:18 Edited at: 9th Aug 2010 02:19
A small battle system. All the code and stuff is in the download.

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Libervurto
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Posted: 9th Aug 2010 06:29
@eli
Could you post the code in a code box please, I can't run anything at the moment sorry.

xxelixx
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Posted: 9th Aug 2010 08:52
Ok, here's the code.



Sinani201
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Posted: 9th Aug 2010 09:10
Are you in Classic or Pro? That looks a lot like DBP code...

Look at your sig. Now look at mine. Now look at your sig. Now look at mine. Now look at your sig. Now BACK TO MINE.
Shadow000
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Posted: 9th Aug 2010 12:46 Edited at: 9th Aug 2010 13:00
I have a question. What's the difference between sprites and objects?



That1Smart Guy
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Posted: 9th Aug 2010 16:40 Edited at: 9th Aug 2010 16:41
@shadow: an object in DBC is the term for a 3D object or mesh, while a sprite is 2D. the 2 function similarly, but 3D is obviously more complicated (but more powerful)

in OTHER languages (C++ is one example), the term "object" could define a great number of things, usually variables of some sort


xxelixx
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Posted: 9th Aug 2010 21:34
Sorry, should have mentioned that I have been using DBPro.

Libervurto
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Posted: 9th Aug 2010 22:14
Quote: "Are you in Classic or Pro? That looks a lot like DBP code..."

All the new members use DBP so we'll use it for the game.

Painstryver
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Posted: 10th Aug 2010 17:31
Hello im new I would like to join but I use DBPro and I dont know if your using Dbc or Dbpro if its DBPro ill join if its DBC ill see if I can get that to join!! Btw I can code a text adventure (about 800 lines long) a guessing game a keyboard controlled 3d cube and uhm yeah! I hope I could help
Painstryver
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Joined: 5th Aug 2010
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Posted: 10th Aug 2010 17:54
Oh sorry!! posted in the wrong place LOL

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