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FPSC Classic Product Chat / Official FPSC Migration Discussion Thread

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Dr Parsnips
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Posted: 19th Apr 2010 19:55
Great job Bond1, Looks awesome! Im assuming the rescue being the wrong way round is just in Max?

Really nice dude!

bond1
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Posted: 19th Apr 2010 19:55 Edited at: 19th Apr 2010 20:05
Quote: "OMG, sheeeeeeeeeeee looks sexy, good job!"


Thanks, and with the lip-syncing feature, you can have her tell you how big and strong and handsome you are.

Quote: "Im assuming the rescue being the wrong way round is just in Max? "


I thought it was backwards on purpose in the original model (like they do on ambulances). But I can flip the UV coordinates I guess.

EDIT: Max may have imported the UV coordinates flipped. I'll fix them.

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"bond1 - You see this name, you think dirty."
Dr Parsnips
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Posted: 19th Apr 2010 20:01
Quote: "I thought it was backwards on purpose in the original model (like they do on ambulances). But I can flip the UV coordinates I guess."


Oh really? I never noticed! Leave it then lol, forget I mentioned it! truely good work!

Red Eye
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Posted: 19th Apr 2010 20:05
Could u do other things with their lips?

Nickydude
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Posted: 19th Apr 2010 20:19
"Twins Basil, twins..."



Cyborg ART
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Posted: 19th Apr 2010 21:24
Nice work!

It just came to my mind, are you the original author of the stock characters? Or did Simon make everything?

Anyways, cant wait to see he ingame with lipsync

bond1
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Posted: 19th Apr 2010 21:27
Quote: "are you the original author of the stock characters? Or did Simon make everything?"


No, I did nothing for the original release of FPSC. Simon Benge and a guy named Michael Palm who did the WW2 stuff were the original artists.

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"bond1 - You see this name, you think dirty."
rolfy
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Posted: 19th Apr 2010 21:37
Nice work bond thats a big improvement.
DarkJames
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Posted: 19th Apr 2010 21:54
One question...the zombies in Scifi will be finally zombies?

or will continue having guns when they are dead?


"Feel free in a world of madness,be the bright spot"
-Bloody James
JZ28
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Posted: 19th Apr 2010 23:14
Quote: "Im assuming the rescue being the wrong way round is just in Max?"


Ive noticed that fpsc flips the mesh of an entity when its imported causing text to be backwards. so i assume it was imported correctly.

http://sites.google.com/site/jordanz2010/
bond1
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Posted: 20th Apr 2010 00:28 Edited at: 20th Apr 2010 00:30
And just one more teaser from the WW2 category. Amazing how a just a new head mesh replacing the old blocky heads breathes new life into these old characters. So much more modern looking.

New thug with old thug.



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"bond1 - You see this name, you think dirty."
Hockeykid
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Posted: 20th Apr 2010 00:31
Quote: "And just one more teaser from the WW2 category. Amazing how a just a new head mesh breathes new life into these old characters. So much more modern looking.

New thug with old thug."

Show us more !

DarkJames
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Posted: 20th Apr 2010 00:32
I want to see the zombies!

and again my question to all FPSC Migration developers

One question...the zombies in Scifi will be finally zombies?

or will continue having guns when they are dead?

They will act like zombies?


"Feel free in a world of madness,be the bright spot"
-Bloody James
A dude
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Posted: 20th Apr 2010 01:16
Can you add a thing like motion blur? But not blurring so much like Alpha Project?
Crazy Acorn
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Posted: 20th Apr 2010 01:50
lol I just thought about talking zombies.

" Yeah that dog over there bit that human...."

- Gorlock
Woolfman
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Posted: 20th Apr 2010 03:22
Nice job on the updates Bond1. They look really good. Can you tease one of the screen shots inside of FPSC?
Marc Steene
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Posted: 20th Apr 2010 06:03
Looking good bond - I added the pictures to the first post On another note, Lee has made some changes to the source code (viewable on GoogleCode.


[b]FPSC MIGRATION: http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=142497&b=21
Scurvy Lobster
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Posted: 20th Apr 2010 08:59
One thing I can't remember hearing about is Resolution. It's cool with all these new features but if they still render at old school 1024x768 on the players screen it's a bit sad.

Will there be an auto-adaptipting resolution according to the players monitor or anything? Maybe there could be a compatibility mode (1024x768) if auto-adapt fails (some people have weird monitor setups).

Same thing could go for the shader system. If the player doesn't have PS 2.0 then shaders could disable (maybe notifying the player).

Also, if the player has a too old DirectX version installed then maybe they could get a meaningful help message instead of a crash to desktop.

Other than that everything is looking great

Kerrby
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Posted: 20th Apr 2010 11:58


When did Mila Kunis get here .


WizMod Developer.
Nomad Soul
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Posted: 20th Apr 2010 19:13 Edited at: 20th Apr 2010 19:14
Fantastic work bond1

Really can't wait to try out the new characters with lip sync functionality. It would be great if you could do a tutorial on how to rig our own characters with the lip sync files?

With the new graphics and DarkAI features being added for V117 having realistic NPC interaction is going to add some much needed depth and realism to our games.

bond1
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Posted: 20th Apr 2010 21:27
I'm sure TGC would be happy to host the lip-syncing biped file on the site, and I can do a tutorial too.

A disclaimer though - it's FREAKING HARD and a lot of work to rig a character for lip-syncing. There are 23 bones (!!!) that drive the facial animation into 15 possible mouth phenome positions. It's very painstaking and delicate work to get the mouth shapes to look natural.

On the plus side, it's awesome though. It will open the doors for adventure games and interaction in FPSC.

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"bond1 - You see this name, you think dirty."
Cyborg ART
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Posted: 20th Apr 2010 22:17
A video would be really cool...




Bugsy
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Posted: 20th Apr 2010 23:11
I would like to see a shell casing improvement. shels should flip and spin in the air.

skype = isaacpreston. I want to talk to YOU
Plystire
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Posted: 21st Apr 2010 03:12
Request: Performance


The one and only,


4125
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Posted: 21st Apr 2010 06:16 Edited at: 21st Apr 2010 06:19
Quote: "Request: Performance "


I Agree 1000%...

Computer Specs: Intel Core 2 Duo E7400 2.80GHz @ 1066Mhz FSB 3MB Cache, Dual Channel 8192MB DDR2 PC6400 800MHz RAM, XFX Nvidia Geforce 9800 GTX+ 512MB, XFX 780i SLI Motherboard
Bugsy
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Posted: 21st Apr 2010 06:29
also agree.

skype = isaacpreston. I want to talk to YOU
Conjured Entertainment
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2010 00:50 Edited at: 22nd Apr 2010 01:01
Quote: "Whilst making a cup of tea I hit upon the idea of NOT transporting the depth through the alpha and instead render out a completely separate depth image. The advantage would be that no new shaders need be written, and all fixed function rendering would work without any tweaks. Well it may have started with that simple concept, but it ended with a rather nice 'bonus' in that once I had used the RED channel to transport my depth (with clever use of fog), I had GREEN and BLUE channels spare. So guess what I used them for Displacement mapping. Long boring techie story short, this new technique allows the rendering of objects to the depth camera which allow a distortion pattern to be applied to the final render. This technique can be used for things like refraction in windows, heat hazes above fires, a hot desert ripple in the distance and my personal favourite, the cloaked enemy character I am sure new model packs will be available to provide the media that goes with these ideas, but it's great to know the technology will be available right in the middle of V117, waiting to be exploited. Even X10 did not have heat wave distortion and invisible enemies, and all done with humble PS 2.0 shaders"


Wow!
You never cease to amaze me Lee.
We are so fortunate because of you.
As always, I am looking forward to seeing what your innovative mind comes up with next.
Thanks Lee for sharing your genius.

Quote: "A disclaimer though - it's FREAKING HARD and a lot of work to rig a character for lip-syncing. There are 23 bones (!!!) that drive the facial animation into 15 possible mouth phenome positions. It's very painstaking and delicate work to get the mouth shapes to look natural.

On the plus side, it's awesome though. It will open the doors for adventure games and interaction in FPSC."


Yes, the lip-syncing will open new doors, windows, and a lot more.
Machinima, cutscenes, and other short videos will be so much better with it.

Quote: "Amazing how a just a new head mesh replacing the old blocky heads breathes new life into these old characters. "

Yes, it is amazing, but the old blocky heads were nice too and certainly served their purpose well for the older processors and video cards.
This stuff is looking so good, and I am sooooo glad you are here working on it Bond.
Thanks for being a friend to all of us here.
Your work is truely appreciated more than we can express, and I have enjoyed watching your skills progress these last 5 years.
Even though I have told you a thousand times, I'll say it again...
THANKS!

   Conjured Entertainment

 WARNING: Intense Madness
Deevos Cranium
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2010 09:15
Um...is there a guestimate release date for this update by any chance...please? we are all itching for this
Also will the system spec change?as it looks far superior than what we have now.
Nomad Soul
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2010 19:07
Quote: "Also will the system spec change?as it looks far superior than what we have now. "


Amazingly despite all of the new ultra cool features being added to the engine its actually going to have much better performance than before. Lee has now added timer systems throughout the engine which are physics based meaning V117 will have better performance than any mod released to date.

We're getting normal mapping, parallax mapping, depth of field, heat haze, advanced AI, particles, ragdoll, better physics, lip sync for NPC interaction, higher quality character models, options to build games standalone or web browser and tons more.

V117 can't really be considered a 'migration' anymore as it is going to surpass X10 in every way. Its really more of a FPSC V2 now.

Alex45
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2010 19:07
sorry but i hate the new aiko

LOLLER!
Snipesoul
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2010 21:38
Quote: "V117 can't really be considered a 'migration' anymore as it is going to surpass X10 in every way. Its really more of a FPSC V2 now."


Agreed.

"Dad? Dad, I'm a- Ye- Not a "crazed gunman", dad, I'm an assassin! ...Well, the difference bein' one is a job and the other's mental sickness!" - The Sniper.
Deevos Cranium
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2010 23:35
cool,im really glad i didnt upgrade to x10 it would have cost me a fortune,this is a fantastic treat for everyone and i just cannot wait,i will have to put my games on hold until this is released as the new features sound amazing and would make a totally different game
DarkJames
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Posted: 24th Apr 2010 01:21
Quote: "[quote]"V117 can't really be considered a 'migration' anymore as it is going to surpass X10 in every way. Its really more of a FPSC V2 now.""
[/quote]




totally agreed!



"Feel free in a world of madness,be the bright spot"
-Bloody James
Bigsnake
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Posted: 24th Apr 2010 01:34
Quote: "V117 can't really be considered a 'migration' anymore as it is going to surpass X10 in every way. Its really more of a FPSC V2 now."


I would agree by I wouldn't call it v2. I would just call it FPS Creator Enhanced

Windows 7, Amd Athlon 7750 Black Editon (64 bit,3ghz + Dual Core), ATI Readon HD 4870 1gb Edition, 4gb Ram.
Plystire
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Posted: 24th Apr 2010 01:35 Edited at: 24th Apr 2010 01:39
Quote: " Lee has now added timer systems throughout the engine which are physics based meaning V117 will have better performance "


How many times must it be said?

"Timer based" does not equal "better performance". Better performance implies better framerate. Timer based does not mean you will get better framerates. A timer based system does nothing more than move objects (and variables) at a speed dependant upon what framerate you're currently running at, so that the system will take the same amount of time to do something regardless of how slow or how fast it is being rendered. If you get 10 fps, your game will still look choppy and laggy.

Please stop making such statements. You're imparting false information. I don't care how much "easier" it makes it for the newbies to understand, I don't want anyone under the assumption that a timer based system automatically implies better performance.

If the new update does indeed have better performance, you can bet that it was not due to the timer based system.


@Alex45:

If you cannot provide construction with your criticism, please don't post it. Before stating "I hate this" you should at the very least be capable of providing information pertaining to why you hate it, or some form of how the author might make it better.


The one and only,


Nomad Soul
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Posted: 24th Apr 2010 01:59
I just got owned. LOL

Well its the 1st physics based timer system in FPSC and Hockeykid said its the best he's seen. Given that he's worked on Fenix, Project Blue and now the official engine thats good enough for me.

Here is what Lee said for the official verdict:

On that subject, I am pleased to announce that I've just put the finishing touches to 'timer based logic' which means FPS Creator now runs at your monitors refresh rate as standard (between 60fps and 100fps) and I can tell you it feels smooth and slick. I think you will approve.

bond1
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Posted: 24th Apr 2010 02:01 Edited at: 24th Apr 2010 07:21
Quote: "sorry but i hate the new aiko "


Don't worry you can still use the old Aiko, she'll still be there. The new version was made to be lip-sync compatible, and to look a bit more modern as far as character models go.

My work for TGC on this particular part of FPSC is done, and TGC is happy with the results. So constructive criticism or not, there WON'T be any more changes.

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"bond1 - You see this name, you think dirty."
Bigsnake
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Posted: 24th Apr 2010 02:04 Edited at: 24th Apr 2010 18:33
Quote: "Don't worry you can still use the old ... Aiko"


Haha, Couldn't think of any other words ?

Windows 7, Amd Athlon 7750 Black Editon (64 bit,3ghz + Dual Core), ATI Readon HD 4870 1gb Edition, 4gb Ram.
Bugsy
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Posted: 24th Apr 2010 02:11
lol. lesbian aiko. ownt

skype = isaacpreston. I want to talk to YOU
Plystire
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Posted: 24th Apr 2010 03:46
Yes, Nomad, Lee said it would feel smooth and slick, but made no mention of better performance. If your hardware is incapable of running the game at a decent framerate, the timer based system will not help any with that. It will not cause your game's movement to slow down alongside the framerate, though it will still look like a slideshow.

I understand that it is the first physics implementation of the timer based system, which is something we should all be looking forward to, but I think to what ends it has improved upon Mod versions of timer systems that is about the extent of it. It is probably more refined, having been made by the person who coded the rest of FPSC, so I have no qualms whatsoever in regards to the system itself.


The one and only,


bond1
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Posted: 24th Apr 2010 06:10 Edited at: 24th Apr 2010 06:10
The new timer-system does feel really slick. And for those who have decent PC's it feels a lot more smooth and responsive like a retail game, rather than the stuttery feel of the old version.

But if you're still clinging to your 5 year old hardware for sentimentality, you've only yourself to blame for bad framerates, to be honest I can't remember the last time performance was an issue for me with FPSC. I remember it lagging when I first got it in 2005 with 2005-era hardware. But ever since 2007 and the introduction of the Geforce8-series, I haven't had ANY slowdowns with any games I've ever made or downloaded.

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"bond1 - You see this name, you think dirty."
4125
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Posted: 24th Apr 2010 06:25
Quote: "But if you're still clinging to your 5 year old hardware for sentimentality, you've only yourself to blame for bad framerates, to be honest I can't remember the last time performance was an issue for me with FPSC. I remember it lagging when I first got it in 2005 with 2005-era hardware. But ever since 2007 and the introduction of the Geforce8-series, I haven't had ANY slowdowns with any games I've ever made or downloaded."


Then compare to me your rich. It took me about 2 and a half years to get the pc I got now which I think is about Med-range comparing to the monster pc(s) on the net for ova $1000. I don't get much money like that and it will prob. take another 2 years to get something from todays date. Maybe other people got it worse then me? Idk im not a mind reader.

I just hope with all the extra eye candy and other cool features my pc won't lagg like it does with X10 currently...Nice Model BTW...I'll Take Any thing New bond1...I Hope you can make the stock zombies look more like zombies then something that looks like it was dipped in mud and has blood all over...I think the stock zombies look kinda bad...

If I came out wrong forgive me im sorry...just saying is all

Computer Specs: Intel Core 2 Duo E7400 2.80GHz @ 1066Mhz FSB 3MB Cache, Dual Channel 8192MB DDR2 PC6400 800MHz RAM, XFX Nvidia Geforce 9800 GTX+ 512MB, XFX 780i SLI Motherboard
bond1
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Posted: 24th Apr 2010 06:32 Edited at: 24th Apr 2010 06:45
Don't worry I know everyone can't afford the newest or latest hardware. I personally don't consider a $1000 computer a "monster pc". I remember taking out a loan for $2500 for my old Gateway Pentium 3 rig, while my newest PC was built for about $1400, so maybe my view is a bit skewed...I think new hardware is a bargain.

The point I was making is that some users expect Playstation 2-era hardware to give XBox 360 results.

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"bond1 - You see this name, you think dirty."
tschwarz
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Posted: 24th Apr 2010 07:15 Edited at: 25th Apr 2010 00:34
Edit... New Aiko looks fantastic, I can only imagine the tedious work involved in the lip sync animations. Thank you for taking fpsc graphics to a whole new level. A big Thanks to HockeyKid too. Without coding the backend, nothing else would matter.

Shall we play a game?” - Joshua
bond1
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Posted: 24th Apr 2010 07:21
Sorry. Edited.

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Marc Steene
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Posted: 24th Apr 2010 10:02
Quote: "A timer based system does nothing more than move objects (and variables) at a speed dependant upon what framerate you're currently running at"


Funnily enough, I discovered how a timer based system works by myself when I was programming a huge zombie survival game (in 2D). The engine wasn't built to run such a large game, and so ran at around 23fps on my machine. So I thought to myself:

"Well, if we assume 30FPS is where the objects are moving at 100% speed, then when running at 15FPS they are only moving 50% speed and so will need to run at 200% to make up for the lag". (Formula was 30/FPS*100).

Needless to say, I was very excited about my discovering and improved my game immensely


[b]FPSC MIGRATION: http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=142497&b=21
Plystire
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Posted: 24th Apr 2010 10:32
Good to hear, Marc. Epiphanies like that are the greatest feeling in the world for a coder, aren't they?

I'm sure Lee felt the same great thing when he came up with his new double-render technique to allow for the new eye candy.


The one and only,


Marc Steene
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Posted: 24th Apr 2010 13:12
Quote: "Epiphanies like that are the greatest feeling in the world for a coder, aren't they?"


Yep, it definitely is. Especially when you finally come up with a solution to a problem which has been troubling you for a long time


[b]FPSC MIGRATION: http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=142497&b=21
uman
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Posted: 24th Apr 2010 17:36
You really will have to wait and see as always what performace averages a wide range of people get and how FPSC performs in all ways across the board for what is by and large a user base which have average PC's unless the long term aim has changed to target a user base that have only above average PC's.

Whatever its all very much just hype for the user base until its proven by the actual end users whoever they will be and whether or not they can actually make completed games any more successfully or better with what eventually they end up with and perhaps more importantly whether or not any users who will attempt to play those games will be able to do so, again successfully and with enjoyment. To those ends good performance ande frame rates and a stable product are important and need to be targeted as has always been the case to a mass market where by and large the vast majority do not have high spec machines. That has always been the case and is not likely to change very much.

As a product presumably FPSC will still be reliant upon a much larger user base than simply members at these forums and stability and efficiency of the engine in gamemaking for the maker and gameplay for the end player is still the issue which has yet to be met or proven.

Timer based systems are certainly best and as in theory they can adapt or should adapt, or provide some way of adapting to a users system to allow for some flexibility to provide reasonable frames rates to all at some level of measure - which ideally should be aimed at that average mass of users or otherwise if it does not meet that then a product that does not is unlikely to succeed for you wont have a user base and market. Of course there will always be some who can get benefit at the higher end but that is a small market much like the case with X10 and some other engines current and many of days past where performance has always been a major issue.

For all that one must applaude TGC for what they are doing - I take my hat off to them and all FPSC users here who support them in this community.

I hope and trust that the current forward development will indeed return a much deserved benefit to TGC, FPSC users and indie gamemaking in general and that it will continue to do so well into the future.

FPSC has been under development for a long time since its original concept which is a much needed one and I hope that with the migration version it will at least go a long way in meeting its true potential. TGC deserve that for the response to users here and their requests for improvements to the engine and the way that they have taken up the challenge is to be admired by all.



250 seamless textures : http://www.umedia.co.uk
Woolfman
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Posted: 24th Apr 2010 19:23
What the heck was that about?

Anyways bond1 are you going to be showing any more pics of your updating work?

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