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FPSC Classic Product Chat / Official FPSC Migration Discussion Thread

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freak of nature 64
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Posted: 28th Apr 2010 01:49
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@wizardious
If you coded them yourself and sent the code to Lee you COULD have those features. If you pass up singleplayer with astounding AI, graphics, features, etc... be my guest. But remember, you could have a retail quality game with great multiplayer if you learned how to code a little.

@Everyone else
I think a co-op campaign would be awesome, who agrees?

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freak of nature 64
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Posted: 28th Apr 2010 01:51
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Dang it Wraith Staff, you beat me to posting

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Plystire
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Posted: 28th Apr 2010 02:34
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It's open source.... go make your own features.
How many times does it need to be said? Seriously?

If you want to call yourself a game developer, don't stick yourself to using FPSC for what is given to you by TGC. If you want MP features, then go make them. If you want better media, then go make it. If you want better scripts, then go make them. Or should I put it this way? Go DEVELOP the things you want.

There's nothing I can't stand more than whiney children who can't make something for themselves. "I don't like the stock media, can someone make us some better ones?" "I don't like the stock AI, can someone make us better ones?" "I don't like how MP sucks, can someone make a better MP?" "I don't like how there aren't any vehicles, can someone make one? OH! And it has to be like in Halo!" Are you SERIOUS?! Get off your rump and do it yourself!

What's that you say? You can model but can't program, yet you want new features? That's good! At least you're capable of making something for yourself. At least you developed something yourself. And at least you have something you can offer in return for someone making what you need.
I have no qualms with the specialists around here. I'm only really fed up with the people who seemingly only have the ability to use FPSC.... and beg for features. If you're going to call yourself a game maker, you should start acting like one. Look at Bond1, ErrantAI, rolfy, etc. They aren't coders (to my knowledge... it's kinda scary how they randomly pop up with a new skill), they make media for the most part. But they took the initiative to learn how to make things OTHER than what their specialty is. bond1 learned HLSL (quite a feat in itself and could alone be a specialization), Errant took the initiative to learn FPI inside and out so that he could help modders (and now hockeykid on the official version) with testing out new commands by making his own scripts to use them in, rolfy is a great level designer and modeller but he's still able to put his own scripts together in new and imaginative ways to make things people didn't think were possible.
Step off your soap box and show us that you're a game maker, don't sit there and tell (for lack of a better word that won't violate the AUP) us that you CAN'T make your game because of X, Y, and Z. If you CAN'T make your FPS game with FPSC right now... then I doubt you could make it anywhere else.

On top of all that... think about what's going on here! TGC (mainly Lee and hockeykid) is giving you updates for FREE on a product that they never promised updates for. They have no obligation to YOU or ANYONE to provide these updates, let alone free of charge. So I suggest to you complainers out there to shut it and be thankful that you even got V1.07


[/rant]


On a side note, why does it feel like my anger levels only seem to rise when reading this thread?


The one and only,


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Bugsy
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Posted: 28th Apr 2010 03:25
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I can only script in FPI and only make good segment textures. I guess I develop a little bit, but one man can't always completely run the show.

skype = isaacpreston. I want to talk to YOU
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BlackFox
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Posted: 28th Apr 2010 03:36 Edited at: 28th Apr 2010 03:44
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Quote: "On a side note, why does it feel like my anger levels only seem to rise when reading this thread?"


Suggestion... don't read the thread then. Remember, thanks to our wonderful world, everyone is entitled to their opinion, even if it does not line up with what you or I see or know. Besides, there will be those that are upset and may not like how things are going or being done, but then they will realize that sometimes in the big world, that's how things are.

Yes, it would be nice to see some multiplayer aspects addressed, but it won't make or break our usage of FPSC. Besides, the amount we've paid for the software and all the add-ons, etc, we have already made back double in four projects released. And as mentioned before, don't limit yourself to just one piece of software. Expand, experiment, learn other ways to design. Learn to mod the source, or look at other engines. There are tonnes of options if you are a serious developer.

- BlackFox

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xplosys
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Posted: 28th Apr 2010 05:33
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Well said Plystire. Even though they still don't have that "build my game for me" feature finished, I'll keep working at making my own.

Brian.

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wizardious
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Posted: 28th Apr 2010 05:59
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I thought that would ruffle some feathers. I know it comes across as bitter, but that is exactly how I felt. I know there was a posting here earlier, stating "new MP features", so coming back here, and seeing there are no plans for any was not fun. I am not a coder, and would just as soon learn Japanese. However. if I'm forced to learn to code to be able to create a decent game, then I will learn a language that is implemented in a much more powerful engine. The entire reason I chose FPSC is that it's promoted as a program that did not require you to know an extensive amount of code, but to have to learn dark basic, and edit the sourcecode, just to get a grenade to explode is just to much to ask.
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CapnBuzz
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Posted: 28th Apr 2010 06:17
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Although I understand the frustrations of a non-coder or non-scripter(me included), I would suggest that in the past few months FPSC is evolving at a fast pace... and mods are doing so as well. FPSC's functionality is going to be pretty high very soon... with a very small price point and learning curve. It makes sense to me to meet a lot of people from the boards, pull on eachothers' skills and strengths, learn from eachother, and make things happen "outside the box."
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BlackFox
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Posted: 28th Apr 2010 06:23 Edited at: 28th Apr 2010 06:25
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Quote: "I thought that would ruffle some feathers. I know it comes across as bitter, but that is exactly how I felt. I know there was a posting here earlier, stating "new MP features", so coming back here, and seeing there are no plans for any was not fun. I am not a coder, and would just as soon learn Japanese. However. if I'm forced to learn to code to be able to create a decent game, then I will learn a language that is implemented in a much more powerful engine. The entire reason I chose FPSC is that it's promoted as a program that did not require you to know an extensive amount of code, but to have to learn dark basic, and edit the sourcecode, just to get a grenade to explode is just to much to ask."


You certainly did not ruffle my feathers. I can understand exactly what you are saying and feel. My only suggestion is not to expect too much from one product, even if it is hampering your development. Sometimes software upgrades moves slower in real time and drives us developers nuts. I'm just suggesting that we can either learn to adapt (ie learn to mod, etc) or we move on to other products. Don't let it discourage you, and don't take anything said previously personal. Besides, I recall reading comments on multiplayer too. You just happened to beat me on commenting on that fact.

Quote: "Although I understand the frustrations of a non-coder or non-scripter(me included), I would suggest that in the past few months FPSC is evolving at a fast pace... and mods are doing so as well. FPSC's functionality is going to be pretty high very soon... with a very small price point and learning curve. It makes sense to me to meet a lot of people from the boards, pull on eachothers' skills and strengths, learn from eachother, and make things happen "outside the box.""


I'll bring the coffee and donuts.

- BlackFox

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Plystire
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Posted: 28th Apr 2010 07:55
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@Bugsy:

My post was not intended to imply that one man should be capable of running the show. It was intended to state that those who have no initiative to learn how to fix their own problems should not demand that another person fix their problems for them.

@xplosys:

I'm sure many are awaiting that feature. If you finish it, I'm sure you'll be a mighty wealthy individual.

@BlackFox:

I think it's mainly because of my workload and the fact that I haven't had a vacation since 2004 that I get aggravated by the little things.

Perhaps I'm the only one who has the initiative to learn something new to accomplish what I want. I'm a coder, through and through, but when I wanted a model I learned how to model. When I wanted new sounds or music, I didn't come ask someone to make some for me, I got on the Internet and grabbed some free software that I could use to do it myself. I can't say I was very good at it, but I learned and I can say that I have a new skill working for me. I still suck at texturing, but with some work I'll get better at that too!

Is it really so much to ask that instead of popping on the forums and asking someone else to do something for you that you instead try to learn how to do it yourself? Or is it no longer human to strive to make yourself better?

@wizardious:

I don't believe Lee has ever mentioned that there would be work done on MP. If you can find some place where it officially states that MP work would be performed, then perhaps you can email Lee about it.

If you feel that you would be willing to learn a language to help you create a game, I have some suggestions for where you can start. Learning to program is never a bad choice as a game developer and opens many doors for you. If you want to go the route of using a professional engine, then either be prepared to dish out some serious cash, or deal with the shortcomings of the software. There are free engines out there that are well known and have a wide userbase, such as Unity, so you may want to look into using one of them, even if for nothing more than to appreciate where FPSC is already at and offering you. There are also other free ways to make a great game purely through coding. Go grab Visual C++ Express, grab DarkGDK, and have at it! Both are free last time I checked, DarkGDK plugs right into the VC++ environment to get you going on a project right away.

Btw, I don't recall ever having to Mod FPSC to make a grenade explode. I do believe they did that from the start.


The one and only,


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Bugsy
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Posted: 28th Apr 2010 08:06
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I know this doesn't much belong here, in the current convo. but Request- bullet tracers.

skype = isaacpreston. I want to talk to YOU
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BlackFox
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Posted: 28th Apr 2010 08:10 Edited at: 28th Apr 2010 08:21
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Quote: "@BlackFox:

I think it's mainly because of my workload and the fact that I haven't had a vacation since 2004 that I get aggravated by the little things.

Perhaps I'm the only one who has the initiative to learn something new to accomplish what I want. I'm a coder, through and through, but when I wanted a model I learned how to model. When I wanted new sounds or music, I didn't come ask someone to make some for me, I got on the Internet and grabbed some free software that I could use to do it myself. I can't say I was very good at it, but I learned and I can say that I have a new skill working for me. I still suck at texturing, but with some work I'll get better at that too!

Is it really so much to ask that instead of popping on the forums and asking someone else to do something for you that you instead try to learn how to do it yourself? Or is it no longer human to strive to make yourself better?"


You're preaching to the choir. Both my wife and I have had to learn different things at different times. She's had to learn more than most because of times where I am sent out and gone from the business for days or weeks on end. She is the CFO of our company, and yet had to learn how to code software applications for our customers to satisfy them in Visual Basic, C++, and C#, or learn DBP , or model applications, the list goes on. They can't wait for me to return, and therefore her and I have to adapt to survive.

I hear what you are saying, and I hear what the other user said and meant. The problem is- there are too many chiefs and it gets confusing to sift through all the posts that fly through here to follow what is going on. Too many times there have been those in the circle that say "this is happening, that is happening", other times questions are asked and get ignored and some people end up more confused than they were before.

In other words, my suggestion to those that are feeling frustrated with the fact that multiplayer may or may not be in the mix, is to jot their suggestions down and send to the one person that can give a straight answer without all the other irrelevant posts- Lee. Otherwise, they will have to do one of two things- either live with it and learn to code, mod, etc. Or choose something different.

- BlackFox

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RoxasXIII
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Posted: 28th Apr 2010 08:20
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With v1.17 a lot of features currently only available in mods will be in the core engine. Not only that, but the new Dark Basic with the v1.17 source code will allow modders to manipulate the engine in almost anyway they want. It won't surprise me if within the first week of release, there will be a mod for adding all those features people want for multiplayer. I might even make a mod along those lines, so all those little kids will stop complaining. Also, to those who think Dark Basic is hard to code in, take a look at C++. Stop complaining about what you can't currently do and look for a way to be able to do it.

Now I've had my little rant.

Too much to do with too little time.
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CapnBuzz
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Posted: 28th Apr 2010 13:36
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Because it seems there is confusion, I would suggest this thread be limited to official word/posts regarding the migration and a 2nd thread be created for discussion regarding the migration. Would that help?
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Woolfman
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Posted: 28th Apr 2010 14:36 Edited at: 28th Apr 2010 14:39
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If you want to read any thing official on the Migration just go to the first page in this post. Marc Steene is making notes on the code and copy/pasting all the things Lee and Hockeykid writes so you can have it all in one spot.
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Nomad Soul
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Posted: 28th Apr 2010 16:03 Edited at: 28th Apr 2010 16:06
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I don't feel that multiplayer is a priority at the moment. We need to get the core game engine improved first.There are only a couple of things needed to make FPSC multiplayer very good:

- Dynamic entities (doors / lifts / exploding objects / decals etc)
- Scripts (bot AI / switches / remote bombs / match stats etc)
- Flak based weapons (grenades / rocket launcher etc)
- Increased player count (12 minimum)

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Bugsy
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Posted: 28th Apr 2010 16:27
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I thought doors were already in multiplayer.

skype = isaacpreston. I want to talk to YOU
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Marc Steene
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Posted: 28th Apr 2010 16:27
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Quote: "I would suggest this thread be limited to official word/posts regarding the migration and a 2nd thread be created for discussion regarding the migration. Would that help?"


The first post is the official information, any posts made by Lee or Hockeykid are on there, it contains no rumours or speculation, simply what we know to be confirmed, as well as videos and pictures of the new features.

The confusion concerning multiplayer is understandable - in the initial feature list on GoogleCode, improving multiplayer was one of the features on the list. However, when questioning Lee further, he confirmed he would not be working on any multiplayer aspects of the engine, and so I removed that from the feature list.

Currently, Lee will not be working on or improving any multiplayer aspect of FPS Creator.

Hopefully this clears up some of the confusion.


[b]FPSC MIGRATION: http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=142497&b=21
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Bugsy
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Posted: 28th Apr 2010 16:59
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I think that's fine. no need to focus on multiplayer until the single player is an all around smoother, more finely tuned experience. and since the framerates are capped way higher, I'm sure that that'll be a multiplayer improvement all alone

skype = isaacpreston. I want to talk to YOU
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Nomad Soul
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Posted: 28th Apr 2010 19:24
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Regardless of adding multiplayer features to the engine, there would need to be a huge improvement in the way FPSC multiplayer games are hosted and presented for it to gain any popularity.

One of the reasons games like Modern Warfare are so popular is because its so easy just to load the game, select multiplayer and join a match.

Half the people trying to do multiplayer games here are asking how they do port forwarding on their router or asking why they can't connect to a game.

We need a proper network client for FPSC like Steam where you can view all the online games being hosted and drop in to them as you please. I've never downloaded a FPSC multiplayer map and loaded it to find people playing and had a good experience on there.

I'm more interested in the single player experience for FPSC so I guess it just doesn't bother me that much.

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veer
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Posted: 28th Apr 2010 19:56
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i for one can't stand people criticizing fpsc(multi-player)

what we have is way more to ask for....
we should be grateful

can't see why people ask for more feature

may be i live in different world ....considering my country with huge gaming market doesn't have its first(first person)game

if i made it, i will be the first person in my country...
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RoxasXIII
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Posted: 28th Apr 2010 23:15
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v1.17 will raise the bar for mods. Almost every day that I look on the first post, I see some new or completed feature. Mods will have less and less they need to do, but more they can do. If the new DBPro is released, then in theory it is possible to add DirectX 10 capabilities to FPSC, as well as heaps of other features. What I would like to see, is a mod like Project Blue, made using the latest Dark Basic and play one of my favorite games made in the community, Alpha Project. Games will finally be commercial quality, and worthy of entering the commercial game market.

Too much to do with too little time.
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Wraith Staff
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Posted: 28th Apr 2010 23:39 Edited at: 28th Apr 2010 23:42
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It seems that the big thing on everyones' minds are the mods coming soon. What most people probably don't realize is that, outside of commercial mods, there is practically no need for mods after the migration... again, just free mods.

The reason I say that is, being open source, any "important" (for lack of a better word) mod content can/should be directly integrated into the official engine. Why have 5 million incompatible mods (all with awesome new features, mind you), when the official updates can directly accommodate all of them?!? Heck, no one would be losing any more money or time than they already would have and it just builds into a better library of content in the end!

EDIT: I do agree that when a new PB is built in the new source it will be awesome, but Hockeykid has a lot on his plate, so it's gonna take some time

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TerrorNation
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Posted: 29th Apr 2010 00:14
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Quote: "I do agree that when a new PB is built in the new source it will be awesome"


I think all they will be integrating is the variable system (done), and Ply may give out some features to Lee too.
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BlackFox
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Posted: 29th Apr 2010 00:20
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Quote: "The reason I say that is, being open source, any "important" (for lack of a better word) mod content can/should be directly integrated into the official engine. Why have 5 million incompatible mods (all with awesome new features, mind you), when the official updates can directly accommodate all of them?!? Heck, no one would be losing any more money or time than they already would have and it just builds into a better library of content in the end!"


That's the beauty of having FPSC open source where we can develop our own mods. I'm not trying to take anything away from your idea, but RPG mod for one will not be integrated into the engine. In other words, it will always remain the entity it is- a unique mod with it's features.

The other issue is in fact compatibility. If you take the 5 million incompatible mods, who gets to decide how and what goes into combining everything? Will each developer of mods have equal say or, dare I say, equal part of the actual shaping and development? Not likely.

If we introduce taking all mods to put together and integrate into an engine will result in strings of code not working properly. So how do you decide what has to change? Each mod has its own special features. It is not that easy to take these mods with their features and combine into one to have integrated into an engine.

- BlackFox

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Wraith Staff
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Posted: 29th Apr 2010 00:49
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Quote: "I think all they will be integrating is the variable system (done), and Ply may give out some features to Lee too. "


Project Blue's code isn't being put into the new source... a new version of Project Blue will be built using the new source sometime after the new update is out.

Quote: "If we introduce taking all mods to put together and integrate into an engine will result in strings of code not working properly. So how do you decide what has to change? Each mod has its own special features. It is not that easy to take these mods with their features and combine into one to have integrated into an engine."


I don't mean putting all the old mods into the build, but instead of making new mods, they can more easily be added as features in official builds, like many/most other open engines do.

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BlackFox
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Posted: 29th Apr 2010 01:33
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Quote: "I don't mean putting all the old mods into the build, but instead of making new mods, they can more easily be added as features in official builds, like many/most other open engines do."


Nod. I follow you there, and in theory that is a nice idea. The question still remains- Will each developer of mods have equal say or, dare I say, equal part of the actual shaping and development? Your idea could work if everyone that was into developing mods could agree and work together.

However, as it was mentioned before, it is a migration. We won't need to worry about mods getting in the mix for quite a while. But I like your idea...

- BlackFox

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ethan game
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Posted: 29th Apr 2010 01:33
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Ideas for fps creator, with the version 1.17
choose your map size, for the 1.18 version be all about multiplayer please

ethan game
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Plystire
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Posted: 29th Apr 2010 02:38
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Quote: "Quote: "I think all they will be integrating is the variable system (done), and Ply may give out some features to Lee too. "

Project Blue's code isn't being put into the new source... "


Not all of PB, no, but the variable system is hopefully going to be integrated. That is the one feature I'm really hoping will make it into the official version as it was one of the more powerful features that required little coding.


Quote: "She's had to learn more than most because of times where I am sent out and gone from the business for days or weeks on end. She is the CFO of our company[...]"


Business versus hobby. Needs versus wants. You're not talking on the same page as I am here. When you need to learn something, it's no longer a question about incentive... it's a need, so it is (by definition) imperitive that it happen. That is not true when you're talking about a want. When it comes to hobbies (FPSC), there needs to be initiative to get better, otherwise it doesn't happen.

There's a difference between the man who says "Wouldn't it be great if we made this game?" and the man who says "I wonder if anyone would ever make a game like that." While one man plans for it, the other man sits around and fantasizes about a game that will likely never exist. Mind you, these are wants pertaining to hobbies, not business related needs. I could tell you all of the new skills I've learned starting my own business as well, but that's not the point here. The point here is that the people who want the requested features are fantasizing about it, hoping that someone else will do it for them. ... And the people who "need" the requested features obviously don't know the difference between a want and a need.


The one and only,


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BlackFox
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Posted: 29th Apr 2010 06:20
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Quote: "You're not talking on the same page as I am here."


Actually, the page I was on was this:

Quote: "Perhaps I'm the only one who has the initiative to learn something new to accomplish what I want..."


I was merely pointing out throughout your post that you are not the only one that has to adapt. Those of us that have been in business for a long, long time do understand the different between needs and wants, both on a personal level or a professional level. To some, FPSC may just be for hobby. For us, it has generated an income for our business and we have been very successful with it. Just because you or others say it is "this way" does not mean all of us see it that way.

However, from our position, whether the migration happens with what we hope it will have and what the thread says it will contain, whether multiplayer issues are address or not make no difference to us. I was merely attempting to point out to this user and others that may have felt the same that there are other alternatives. I agree with the response of learning to do things. Sometimes it is more rewarding to learn how to do something yourself rather than counting on or expecting others to do it for you. Less disappointment that way...

At the end of it all, everyone has the right to voice their comments/questions/confusion without getting a blasting or told to shut it. Otherwise, what is the point of having a forum to discuss.

- BlackFox

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freak of nature 64
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Posted: 29th Apr 2010 06:56
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@ethan game
If you coded it yourself and sent it to Lee it might get implemented. I have no idea why I'm posting right now. I shouldn't be on the internet because I'm tired. Weird things happen when I'm tired. This probably doesn't make sense. [ramble] I had a puppy name v1.17 and I can't wait for it's release. It will be so much fun because of the new features. It's name will be FPS Studios, or George for short. It's probably too late for me to be online. v1.17 will be so cool and I will maybe learn to make a mod. I will edit this tomorrow so it makes more sense. [/ramble]

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Plystire
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Posted: 29th Apr 2010 12:27
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Quote: "At the end of it all, everyone has the right to voice their comments/questions/confusion without getting a blasting or told to shut it. Otherwise, what is the point of having a forum to discuss."


You're right that everyone has a right to voice opinions, but not always without someone who voices an opinion against their own. Those who voice opinions that practically beg for a response should be prepared for the impending discussion.

My opinion is against those who voice their own inept remarks about the versions being released by TGC which have been nothing short of charity.

Quote: "To some, FPSC may just be for hobby. For us, it has generated an income for our business and we have been very successful with it."


In all seriousness, congratulations. Not many people here are successful with commercial endeavors involving FPSC.

Perhaps your ability to adapt and learn new things has helped with this?


The one and only,


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Nomad Soul
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Posted: 29th Apr 2010 19:24
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Does anyone have any idea what the timeline is for V1.17.

It would be great to get a beta in the next couple of months but there are so many updates going into it I'm thinking more like Q3 or possibly even later this year.

From what I've seen people haven't been able to compile the Google source code in its current state because of too many errors. If anyone has managed to compile the latest source it would be interesting to hear from you.

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Cyborg ART
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Posted: 29th Apr 2010 19:29
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I hope it will be out sometime this summer, maybe august?

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Deevos Cranium
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Posted: 29th Apr 2010 19:34
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I have my fingers crossed for a late june early july release.
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Marc Steene
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Posted: 29th Apr 2010 21:32 Edited at: 30th Apr 2010 12:57
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It seems information has been trickling through very slowly recently. If you check the GoogleCode change log, there have been a few interesting updates (such as the removal of the preview button) but nothing major.


[b]FPSC MIGRATION: http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=142497&b=21
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xplosys
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Posted: 29th Apr 2010 21:56
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Quote: "choose your map size"


Interesting. I wonder if selecting a smaller map/world would make any difference with build size, speed, performance, etc...?

Brian.

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Bugsy
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Posted: 30th Apr 2010 08:32
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I don't know if this is possible in DBpro, but one of the things I do in Flash Action Script 2 for enemy AI is collision checking AHEAD of where the character might be. (also, character himself checks for collision) what happens is, (and this could be used for FPSC character jumping AI) is that if a character notices that the floor ahead of him is missing on his level, he plays a jump animation when he reaches it, unless his NEXT collision checker (a vertical bar even further ahead of him) doesnt see ground. if the further collision check doesn't see ground, he doesn't jump. I use the same thing that could be done there with my object traversal. if the character sees an object in front of him, and the fastest way to a target is climbing it, then he climbs it when he reaches it, and if his further ahead collision detection notices that it goes back to a lower level more quickly, he jumps it instead of climbing onto it and standing.

sorry for the pseudo pseudo pseudo code, but I think that would make an excellent feature for DarkAI on top of the already possible stair traversal. it would make for enemies that seemed much smarter, but would require a jumping animation.

tomorrow, I'll provide an animated visual aide for what I mean, because likely no one understands what I just said.

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xplosys
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Posted: 30th Apr 2010 16:16
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I understand fine, but wouldn't that additional checking make FPS even slower since AI is already the biggest drain on it?

Brian.

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Cyborg ART
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Posted: 30th Apr 2010 17:10
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Its an interesting idea, but as xplosys said it would probably lower the fps.
But maybe 1.17 is more stable than we believe?

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veer
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Posted: 30th Apr 2010 22:38
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after the game is build its should have an graphic option

to turn shader on or of
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moncho
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Posted: 1st May 2010 01:11
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i think that whe should just wait a let lee finish 1.17
with the features being put in it .
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Bugsy
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Posted: 1st May 2010 02:51
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I thoughat animations were a the biggest drain.

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Cyborg ART
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Posted: 2nd May 2010 17:10
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Quote: "I thoughat animations were a the biggest drain.
"


What kind of animations?

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bond1
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Posted: 2nd May 2010 17:20
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Quote: "I thoughat animations were a the biggest drain."


The character animations are done entirely on the GPU, so it doesn't strain FPSC or your CPU at all, the're entirely dependent on your graphics card. AI is done by the engine/CPU, so more complex AI will put more of a strain on the engine.

----------------------------------------
"bond1 - You see this name, you think dirty."
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Bugsy
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Posted: 3rd May 2010 06:08 Edited at: 3rd May 2010 06:11
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oh, I thought character anims were only done on GPU if you used fastbone.fx

anyways- @map size concerns

The map size in FPSC is more than big enough. in fact, it's so big that no one has ever used all of it. there's almost always an entire other dimension that we forget. the up and down z axis. sure, if you make a flat open city than it'll compare small against other engines flat city map sizes, but if FPSC's performance and segment logic were increased, you could essentially build 4 maps in one of the FPSC maps. for instance, a player could start out in the catacombs underground, which is at layer 2, taking up about 40X40. and then moving up into the subway, another 40X40 grid. on layer 6, then on layer 10, a massive 40X40 city, with all of the buildings able to be entered, and then a whole rooftop traversal section up at layer 19. essentially as big as the buildings are. that, coupled with an increase in sheer numbers of characters handle-able would make for a massive map possible, on a small size. each square in FPSC is 10 feet, and that times 40 is 400. 400 x 400 is 12000 feet in area, stacked on top 4 times 48000 square feet. that's about 8 square miles.

I'm not saying that's not already "possible" in FPSC, it is, I'm just saying that by the time you got it to build, it would have literally no detail, no characters, and run on nothing less than a nasa computer. if FPSC could handle that STOCK along with about 10 characters per level, and be able to build at least 15 of those sized maps reliably on an average computer, FPSC games would start lasting hours on average, instead of minutes.


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uman
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Posted: 3rd May 2010 20:33 Edited at: 3rd May 2010 20:35
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I have indoor maps which cover all of the FPSC world in the horizontal and much of the vertical and always run out of build space before I can sensibly include all that ideally needs to go into a single level. Outside Map size is far too small for credible world building, though of course you can make the best of a bad job and all using what can be difficult workarounds with average potential for a quality result. Often people rely on making their levels Dark so imperfections are hidden as much as is possible.

If you like light and large levels as in human terms most of us walk around mainly in daylight for our activities especially outdoors like me its certainly a challenge Yes.

All my levels are quite complex and FPSC at one time could run them far more efficiently than it can in latter days so levels have had to be broken into smaller ones and it still cant run them efficiently if at all with reasonable gameplay.

It is true to say that as is stands currently its unlikely that a game level could cover the whole map area and include anything like highly complex details throughout and include a decent level of AI numbers amongst all kinds of active and dynamic entities. Difficult for instance to get a City with streets full of pedestrians and vehicles moving around - just not enough room in a level even if FPSC could handle it which it cant. Too many active entities and I forgot the enemies I need to go in.

Well actually it can make a decent attempt at this and if there were efficiency improvements and the map size a little larger it might be possible to do credibly but that thats a big maybe which is unlikely to happen.

It certainly is the AI which is the main issue but other basic issues which are well known need adressing. The eye candy wont make you any good games - good interesting and involving gameplay does that.

Performance can fluctuate somewhat between versions of FPSC and some levels and content so there is much inconsistency between the versions and individual users game levels.

Stability and effiiciency is too unpredictable.

Make no mistake give people a bigger world size and they will fill it.

Firstly we need stabilty and efficiency in the Migration and the all important AI drain to be at least somewhat less of a burden.



250 seamless textures : http://www.umedia.co.uk
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Bugsy
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Posted: 3rd May 2010 20:50
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if you know how to use map space correctly, you can make a city incredibly massive seeming, but I want to see a game running at 60 FPS on a modest computer with 4 40x40 DETAILED maps stacked on top of each other. then I'll eat my words. let me see it and 10 others build in one build without error on that same computer and I'll eat my hat too

give FPSC more stability, and better functioaliy of not rendering the level all the way across the map if the player can't see it. It makes my heart sink to flip on wire frame mode and see my ENTIRE indoor level rendered when the player only sees the first hallway.


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uman
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Posted: 4th May 2010 22:01
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Dont think theres much chance of you eating your hat which must come as a relief.



250 seamless textures : http://www.umedia.co.uk
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Bugsy
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Posted: 4th May 2010 22:34
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I would eat 3 hats with no ketchup to see that in FPSC. for a hobbyist engine, it needs to be more reliable.


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