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FPSC Classic Product Chat / Official FPSC Migration Discussion Thread

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Soviet176
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Posted: 5th May 2010 04:08
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So umm will this "Migration" be available to the FPSC x10 community as well? meaning for those who did not purchase x9 but purchased x10?

"I haz no sig :o"
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Wazoo117
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Posted: 5th May 2010 05:16
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Hehe, lovin' the upgrade version!!!

Grenadier Games
"There are very few problems in life that cannot be solved with the proper application of high explosives"-Gunny
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Marc Steene
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Posted: 5th May 2010 15:45
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UPDATE 05/05/2010

Some interesting FPSC-Migration related news in the latest newsletter. Here is an interesting paragraph:

Quote: "In other migration news, you will be pleased to learn we have dropped the less than perfect debug screen you see when you hit TAB in test game and replaced it with the nice snazzy resource meter from X10, meaning you can see FPS, physics, entity and other metrics via a cool looking status bar instead of tiny yellow text. Perhaps the biggest change has been the continued work on the DarkAI elements of the update, bringing over more goodies from X10 combined with the fresh take on scripting AI behaviour thanks to Hockeykid. The engine does a pretty good job of creating optimised obstacles for the AI to work around, and the next task on our considerable plate is to implement cross-container gateways. In short, this means that characters will soon have the ability to use the AI to navigate up stairs, through complex multi-level layouts and even target and shoot from multiple layers as well. When we're done, you'll find the AI well worth the wait."


Looks like we've got the X10 resource bars instead of the debug text

Also, a mini-picture is in the newsletter showing off some of the new features:



It shows:

o Character Skin Shader
o Heat Haze Distortion
o Tone Mapping
o Bloom
o Depth of Field
o Motion Blur


[b]FPSC MIGRATION: http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=142497&b=21
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science boy
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Posted: 5th May 2010 17:58 Edited at: 10th May 2010 19:32
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rdited by me

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Wraith Staff
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Posted: 5th May 2010 18:07 Edited at: 5th May 2010 18:10
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@Soviet176 and science boy:

x10 and x9 are two completely different engines, though they share many of the same features and the same name (obviously)... due to the fact that they are coded so differently, no such update even exists for x10 and even if you had a copy of this update for x9, it would do nothing to x10, but maybe stop it from working. From my understanding, new updates will still be happening for x10, but it's going in a bit of a different direction than x9.

As for upgraded accounts, I was under the impression that this would be distributed like any other upgrade (not to mention that there has been an upgrade button in the menu since last version, which should work when this comes out)... heck, it's all free on Google Code anyway. Why would they do this any differently than usual? Though, I honestly don't know.

Hope that helps

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Soviet176
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Posted: 5th May 2010 22:12
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That makes no sense, why would you charge more for an engine that has less features seeing how lee is taking everything that made the x10 engine different and putting it into x9. Not to mention charging less for x9. This is really starting to frustrate me, at one time we actually had something to wave at the x9 community and now its being taken away from us and put into an engine that costs at least $30 less. Not to mention x9 games work on XP and vista/7 where as we are limited to only vista/7. I don't see the logic in this?

The X10 Revival Competition
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Woolfman
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Posted: 5th May 2010 22:38 Edited at: 5th May 2010 22:40
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Easy. It's the Valve and Blizzard approach. Appeal to the system (In this case product) that the majority uses. (Also this was a long time coming and only now it's happening)

Yet I don't know why all the work that's going into the X9 update can't go into the X10 version but that's another argument all together.
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RoxasXIII
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Posted: 5th May 2010 23:02 Edited at: 5th May 2010 23:10
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The FPSC Source isn't exactly free. Sure, the code itself is free, but you still need to get DB Pro and the enhancements for it.

Edit - I noticed 'G Now makes your ally follow you. H has him stop following' Wasn't it going to be F for follow, like X10? Why did they change it? Perhaps F is going to be Attack. Ideas?

Too much to do with too little time.
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Foxhound7
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Posted: 5th May 2010 23:40
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Is there a beta for V1.17 yet? I need to get my ragdoll on >.<

Your signature has been erased by a mod
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Hockeykid
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Posted: 5th May 2010 23:54
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Quote: "Edit - I noticed 'G Now makes your ally follow you. H has him stop following' Wasn't it going to be F for follow, like X10? Why did they change it? Perhaps F is going to be Attack. Ideas?"


Lee asked me to change it but not to worry its done through the script so you can just make an edit to the script .

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Wraith Staff
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Posted: 6th May 2010 00:30
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Quote: "The FPSC Source isn't exactly free. Sure, the code itself is free, but you still need to get DB Pro and the enhancements for it."


Well, DBP is free now too... but you DO still need the plugins (for now )

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Soviet176
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Posted: 6th May 2010 02:41
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Valve and blizzard are two totally different company's. I want to know why we are being charged more money for an engine that has less features than the engine being charged for less money by the SAME company?

The X10 Revival Competition
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Woolfman
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Posted: 6th May 2010 03:11
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You missed my point

But to answer your new question. It wasn't that way when you bought X10. Updates change software for the better right? So why update it to be junk? I think Mods are already making X9 better then X10 so I see it as the update is just catching up.(And passing)
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Shadowtroid
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Posted: 6th May 2010 04:08
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No, the whole point is that people paid money for a better product. Now to get this they have to pay MORE money. Yes, it's passing X10. THAT'S THE PROBLEM!

Why is this always passed off as "Oh, but it's PROGRESS!" Yes, FOR THE ONES WHO HAVE X9!

I have brought this up many a times, and every time I have been brushed off because "but they have mods now, so it's okay," "but this makes us better than those stupid imbeciles that bought X10, lolol" etc.

X9 has consistently been put ahead of X10, which is in NO WAY fair. X10 costs more, and was promised to give you more.

I'm sorry, but how can you let this stand?! I'm honestly a bit tired of it. People saying "ditch X10...migrations gonna make X9 teh bomb" just makes me angry!

There is AN ENTIRE PRODUCT, and in turn an entire COMMUNITY being left in the dust because of this! Not only this, it was sold on the premise that it would be more advanced than the cheaper alternative! But every time, X9 has gotten something BEFORE X10.

And honestly? I'm sick of that and the community's reaction. It's bad enough to not give us an edge we were promised, it's another thing to pass it off as something not important!

Overall...Something needs to be done. The entire X10 community is being let down by all this. And I'm tired of people just not caring.

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CapnBuzz
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Posted: 6th May 2010 04:20 Edited at: 6th May 2010 04:27
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Soviet176, I think the issue is that X9 sold well and developed a thriving community. X10 -- in a quirk of fate -- didn't sell very well and never developed much of a community. This isn't to say that X10 isn't a good product -- just that it didn't "hit." So, TGC is updating the software product that did well for them. Happens all the time in the software/game world. After the migration of features is done, my guess is that the price for the X9 engine out-of-the-box might change to reflect the new features. Dunno...

Shadowtroid, I understand your frustration. Just as the X9 community found not too long ago, if a community has enough political will and demands something, changes can happen. If there are enough people in the X10 community to demand change, it will happen. Unfortunately, sometimes good games/software/engines just don't catch on... even if they are "a step up." And truthfully, it's a sales thing.

Maybe these issues are best addressed in emails to TGC? Maybe they will see a benefit in "grandfathering" X10 people to the X9 engine? Might be worth a shot.
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Soviet176
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Posted: 6th May 2010 04:26
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Agreed 200% shadowdoid, I totally understand that TGC is a small company. We, the x10 community ALSO understand that the x9 community is larger. Does that mean be minority must suffer? did anyone take into account that the reasons we use X10 is because it allows better support for the hardware we payed GOOD money for. I spend nearly $600 on the Nvidia 480 and I want to utilize the x10 engine for what it was meant to do to create better games. Were sorry you all use chip sets, what more can I say? Shadow summed it up. The entire x9 community ignores us and has since the beginning. NO one is seeing the point at hand here. We the x10 community have spent more money on a product that was SUPPOSED to be more advanced than the other. However this IS not the case, the cheaper engine is getting everything that was supposed to be ours. Your own bloody quotes " TAB in test game and replaced it with the nice snazzy resource meter from X10" <-- wtf... ok so your literally ripping things our of our engine to put into yours. How is this fair? any one of you would be pissed off if you were in our shoes.

The X10 Revival Competition
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Plystire
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Posted: 6th May 2010 09:36
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I think we're over-reacting here about the X9 vs. X10 debate.

If X9 can have it, then I'm pretty sure X10 will have it as well. But you need to realise that the development team (AKA Lee and hockeykid, right now) cannot simply clone themselves to work on two different products at the same time.

It makes sense that TGC is putting emphasis on the X9 upgrade because of the massively larger community and userbase that it has over X10. Once this emphasis has taken place, I can see them moving on to upgrade X10 with all of the shiny bells and whistles that they gave to X9, as well as some new things that may come along (as is usually the case).

Can I say it again? Please be patient with this. FPSC users have been "patient" with TGC about this for LONGER than X10 has existed. Features that were promised before FPSC's inception have only JUST been implemented. One of those promised features made it to X10 before it came to X9. Ragdoll anyone?


The one and only,


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Woolfman
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Posted: 6th May 2010 10:27 Edited at: 6th May 2010 10:28
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How about this. Don't look at ANY of the X9 updates and stay on the X10 forum page. You won't know what your missing.

Like Plystire said, this was promised a long time ago something like over a year.
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RoxasXIII
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Posted: 6th May 2010 10:47
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Supply and Demand, the basis of economy. The company supplies for the biggest market, just like any other company. More people use and want FPSC x9 than FPSC x10. To people that bought X10 instead of X9, that was YOUR choice. You could have made an educated decision to get the product that had a bigger market, and in turn more and better updates, like what I did. Sure, if I had the money to get X10 as well, I would. But if I wanted to sell a game I made, I would make more of a profit with the X9 version, due to there being a bigger market for the product. Simple.

Too much to do with too little time.
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Cloner
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Posted: 6th May 2010 12:33 Edited at: 6th May 2010 12:35
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Well if I compare the cost of the dx 486 computer I had bought 25 years back, and the Intel quadro I bought last year, the Intel quadro is 25 times faster and 25 times cheaper. Nobody seems to object.

With most software and electronic items I buy, later versions are cheaper and usually more efficient. Nobody asks Philips why the music system they bought 5 years back cost more than the more powerful music system they are buying from the same company now.

Hard luck with TGC is that they co-related the X9 and X10 with Direct X9 and Direct X10.

Seems to me, many would be happy if this was not admitted as an upgrade but marketed as new, groundbreaking software with a new name. Surprising how socialists (?) gulp capitalist tactics and want more, and fail to appreciate an honest marketer.

Still moving in circles.
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Scene Commander
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Posted: 6th May 2010 13:09
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Quote: "That makes no sense, why would you charge more for an engine that has less features "


Mainly because there are far more XP and Windows 7 users than Vista users, that's market forces for you.

Instead of complaining that TGC aren't supporting Vista any more, try complaining that Microsoft released an operating system they had no intention of supporting in the future and released it only as a stop gap, and then encouraged small companies like TGC to release software that they knew would only have a limited shelf life. Or maybe blame computer retailers who sold machines with an operating system installed they also knew would be outdated in 2 years and yet would refuse to sell machines with XP on.

Vista is dying I'm afraid.

That said, it would maybe be nice if TGC would offer free x9 "upgrades" to x10 users.

Just my thoughts.
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Shadowtroid
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Posted: 6th May 2010 14:18
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@Scene Commander

X10 supports Windows 7.

The operating system has nothing to do with it.

@Plystire

If they do up X10 with the new bells and whistles, then I agree, that'd be fair. But how it sounds is that ONLY X9 will get this update. Which is not fair. I'll be all up for waiting if TGC say X10 will be getting something.

@CapnBuzz

I agree, I have brought this idea up before. Maybe X10 users can get a free copy of X9? That would be fair IMO.

@Woolfman

That is just offensive, you can't just say to stay in the X10 boards. Especially since I am also a part of the X9 community.

@Cloner

That might also be a good idea, have whole separate product. However I'm not sure how socialism v. capitalism is in any way a part of this discussion. Let's keep politics out of this.

@All

I know, this is great and all, and the part of me that has X9 is happy. However all of me thinks that it isn't fair for X10 to be left in the dust like this. We were PROMISED many features which it didn't come with; now they're being implemented into the cheaper version. Remember the original tech video? It promised all kinds of features for X10. It got only a few. Now, those features which we DID get (and even ones we didn't) are being implemented into a cheaper version. And that, my friends, annoys me.

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Woolfman
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Posted: 6th May 2010 16:12
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Offensive?!?! Your whole X10 complaint in a X9 migration thread is ridiculous. Why not email Lee about it and ask if anything is going to happen to X10? Naaa it's easier to argue a point that a lot more people don't care about then do and make 2 pages of complaints.
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science boy
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Posted: 6th May 2010 16:21 Edited at: 10th May 2010 19:30
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edited by me

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Marc Steene
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Posted: 6th May 2010 19:48
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In case anyone missed the new feature, we will be getting Motion Blur, as well as Depth of Field and Bloom (Fullscreen Shaders).


[b]FPSC MIGRATION: http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=142497&b=21
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Bugsy
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Posted: 6th May 2010 20:40
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excellent to hear, marc steene! let's hopefully not turn this into a flame sticky.

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moncho
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Posted: 7th May 2010 00:27
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I agree with cloner he has a great point so just stop fighting gosh!!
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Shadowtroid
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Posted: 7th May 2010 01:29
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Quote: "Your whole X10 complaint in a X9 migration thread is ridiculous."


Let me see the name of this board...

"FPSC Chat"

Okay, well, X10 is FPSC, but what about the thread:

"Official FPSC Migration Discussion Thread"

Where in there doe it say X9? The Migration was supposed to be for X9 and X10. A supposed "merging" of sorts. You were all complaining that it would never happen, that too few features were being added. And now you say that I'm complaining. Does that seem fair to you?

All I want is for TGC to give the X10 community something.

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xgcell
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Posted: 7th May 2010 02:14
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this is ridiculous. why do you guys care about what the others think? it seems to me the only person i would want to care about what i say is lee or perhaps hockeykid due to his involvement.

i keep trying to check this thread for updates and all i see is argument.

Join us, for we are many.
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Plystire
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Posted: 7th May 2010 02:15
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Dear me... can we at least appear to be patient?

I am all for voicing our opinions, especially when we're upset, but can we please keep our posts in a calm and collected manner? I'm sure Lee reads this thread, but I'm also sure he reads emails (whether he replies or not), so perhaps those who are confused about the X10 situation could email Lee about their concerns?

This is not a topic that should be argued about between community members. Lee's choice on the matter is final and is really the only thing that matters in the end, so why not go voice your opinions directly to him and find out what is going on?


@Woolfman:

Yes, your post was offensive. You have no place to tell other members here to "stay out of our board". Segregation has long been abolished, and I hate to see ANYone attempting to keep it alive. Every member is free to come and go between boards as they please. Please don't insinuate otherwise.


The one and only,


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Shadowtroid
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Posted: 7th May 2010 02:28
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@All

Yes, I think it might be best to email Lee about the whole deal. However I also wanted to see the community's reaction, and so far I don't exactly like it.

Quote: "Yes, your post was offensive."


Thank you.

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Woolfman
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Posted: 7th May 2010 04:33
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Guess what Plystire it was a suggestion if he's having such a huge problem seeing X9 becoming better then X10. So Please use reason and don't follow an after post. I already gave your suggestion yet he didn't want to hear it.

Segregation Ha! Now that was a plain dumb. Go read my other post. Better yet I'll quote it.
Quote: "How about this. Don't look at ANY of the X9 updates and stay on the X10 forum page. You won't know what your missing. "
That looks like a quick fix to a problem. In English that means "Don't like it leave". Or I could have made some HUGE post about people needing to do it themselves if they want the engine to be better and be real developers.
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Plystire
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Posted: 7th May 2010 05:13
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I am well aware of what your post stated, Woolfman. But telling them to stay on the X10 board and not this one is not going to fix a problem. If they really WEREN'T aware of the updates being made to X9, they would only know that they are simply not receiving updates and would probably raise a fuss anyway.

Quote: "Segregation Ha! Now that was a plain dumb."


Quote: "segregation seg·re·ga·tion (sěg'rĭ-gā'shən)
n.

The removal of certain parts or segments from a whole or mass."


Well, according to definition, you were implying that the community should be segregated if that would make things better.
Albeit, it would not make things better.

Quote: "Or I could have made some HUGE post about people needing to do it themselves if they want the engine to be better and be real developers."


I felt that it didn't need be to said again so soon. But this isn't about whether they should do it themselves or not. They are simply wanting to clear the confusion about what is going to happen with X10 after the "migration".


To use your own words:
Quote: "Please use reason"



The one and only,


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Bugsy
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Posted: 7th May 2010 06:22
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oh dear this became a flame war

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KeithC
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Posted: 7th May 2010 06:37
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You guys need to settle down....only warning.

-Keith
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Crazy Acorn
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Chill Meho's!

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Butterkiss
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Will You be fixing the problem that repeat's itself? This issue where the "build game" won't get passed the 3rd level load. Just asking

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Woolfman
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Posted: 7th May 2010 10:42
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Wrong again. At first it was to complain about X9 being better then X10. Then it changed in to wanting compensation of some sort for getting X10. Then we arrive at what they want now which is "info" with a side of what the community thought.

Do you even know what you are defending?

KeithC. Yeah wanrned. Ok, got it. I guess I don't need to defend x9 being better do I. Just let people cry about it.
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Marc Steene
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Posted: 7th May 2010 12:32
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Thanks for keeping control Keith. Work is continuing on the Migration, and the following two features were added recently:

Tweaked sound system to produce quieter sounds from layers above and below (likely different room)

Improved built-in DarkLIGHTS system (new DLL required by modders) to reduce virtual memory usage

As promised, Lee is trying to reduce memory usage


[b]FPSC MIGRATION: http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=142497&b=21
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Nomad Soul
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Posted: 7th May 2010 13:41
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To all X10 users

I purchased X10 on day 1 and went through the pain of purchasing a new PC and graphics card only to wait over a year for some updates just to make the product work with official model packs and fix significant bugs to make it as good as X9.

I don't blame TGC for this situation as they were just trying to take advantage of directx 10 and Vista to give the FPSC community a better product. Unfortunately both of these were largely unsupported by the game industry as a whole and FPSC X10 was fighting a losing battle from the beginning.

What we cannot afford to do is stand in the way of real progress being made with the X9 engine which is finally happening. Both X9 and X10 users will finally have the opportunity to use FPSC in the way we all hoped would be possible and it really shouldn't matter if that ends up being X9 or X10.

I'm just very excited to see whats happening with X9 at the moment. TGC and Lee are very generous and will probably allow X10 users to download the new FPSC X9 for free. Lets not judge before we actually know what is going to happen.

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MK83
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Posted: 7th May 2010 17:28 Edited at: 7th May 2010 17:33
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Quote: "I purchased X10 on day 1 and went through the pain of purchasing a new PC and graphics card"
As did I.
@Nomad Soul You said it all.


Cheers!

mk83 Productions
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Doomster
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Posted: 7th May 2010 18:42
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Quote: "Maybe X10 users can get a free copy of X9?"

Umm... isn't it already that way? Someone I know purchased X10 off from Amazon, and he said, that it came with both versions.

-Doomster

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Die Apfelsine
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Posted: 7th May 2010 20:54
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Year, you're right, aren't you? There is something in my mind about two CD's,you get from Amazon, but I'm not sure...
Anyway the x10 users are really unlucky, if they've got the x10 only, because they paid more and got less! Or rather they got more, but that's a thing of the past. I think we should wait for an announcement by Lee. Time will tell, what Lee will do!

Lars (Lucky x9 user ;P)

Don´t be afraid about my bad spelling, I´m a seventeen-years-old orange from germany. I´m trying to learn english since I was 8, so chill out, everything is OK.
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freak of nature 64
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Posted: 7th May 2010 22:22
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@Everyone whining about X9 vs. X10
Shut up about it. Just get the x9 version through TrialPay! Not trying to be mean, but I am so tired of your post being in my inbox every 2 seconds!!

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4125
16
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Joined: 3rd Feb 2008
Location: Bronx, New York
Posted: 7th May 2010 22:48
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Its a good thing I got both. Just Wow...

The Features is really growing! Just hope the speed is as good as the eye candy.

Lets all just get along and wait for TGC answer.

Computer Specs: Intel Core 2 Duo E7400 2.80GHz @ 1066Mhz FSB 3MB Cache, Dual Channel 8192MB DDR2 PC6400 800MHz RAM, XFX Nvidia Geforce 9800 GTX+ 512MB, XFX 780i SLI Motherboard
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CrescentMoon
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Posted: 8th May 2010 00:11
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These features are starting to get incredible o.o looks like I'll be putting my game on pause for a little while (that and I'm hitting writer's block on parts of the storyline >>" let me make up an excuse -.-).

Still I do feel bad for the X10 users ;/ maybe they should get a free upgrade to the migration version as compensation (and maybe some free TGC Store Points since they were kinda ripped off, hey most of us didn't know that Microsoft was being bipolar with Vista)

Can't wait for the migration ...well maybe until I get over the nonexistant case of writers blocks >>, <<, xD

[WIP] Paranorma Chapter 1, The Beginnings
Level 1: The Lobby - 25% Complete
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RoxasXIII
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Posted: 8th May 2010 00:32
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Quote: "Shut up about it. Just get the x9 version through TrialPay!"

I second that. If you're willing to pay for X10, I'm sure most of you wouldn't mind spending $2 or $3 on some photos or something. That's how I got my version of FPSC.

Too much to do with too little time.
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Ronnok
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Posted: 8th May 2010 02:05 Edited at: 8th May 2010 02:27
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I have to say this is getting really good and thank you ply for beating wolfman he was being a [mod edit]3 day noob slap[/mod edit], and thank you keith for keeping it safe for people to talk on FPSC CHAT NOT FPSC JUDGE PEOPLE BOARD........and thanks Marc and lee for your hard work and you too hockykid
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veer
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Posted: 8th May 2010 09:32
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for all those fpsc 10x user

i bought fpsc then later found out there is something called fpsc 10x
which look 10 times better

i thought i wasted my money...


now times has change...so don't complain

you paid for 10x quality ...that is what you got

we paid for 9x quality and that is what we got
just because we are improving you started feeling bitter
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Plystire
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Posted: 8th May 2010 09:56
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veer, that discussion is over. They are using a more appropriate method now, so we need not re-ignite the issue.


The one and only,


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