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Work in Progress / XenoPhysics - A Havok Wrapper for DarkBasic Professional

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Kryogenik
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Posted: 17th Jun 2010 21:34 Edited at: 17th Jun 2010 21:35
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Cool article, Kistech. That's by the people who made the orange box, right? I understood pretty much everything in it, except this part
Quote: "With 20 snapshots per second, a new update arrives about every 50 milliseconds. If the client render time is shifted back by 50 milliseconds, entities can be always interpolated between the last received snapshot and the snapshot before that."

I get what it means, show the objects a tenth of a second in the past to have smoother movement, a somewhat neglible amount of time, but how would you "shift the render time?" Is that some directx setting or is it just talking about positioning the objects back to where they were? It confuses me Sorry to veer off topic Xarshi, but I thought started a thread would be a waste since it was already here. Can someone clarify for me?

Codesurge is so awesome, thanks Hyrichter.
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thenerd
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Posted: 17th Jun 2010 21:55
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I think that means that the game has a slight delay in displaying to the screen compared to when it receives the packet. It waits until it has the next packet so that laggy players can see the delay less, because it has two packets to look at instead of one.
Sorry if I'm not making sense, it's hard for me to explain it in words...
from the article:
Quote: "By default, the client receives about 20 snapshot per second. If the objects (entities) in the world were only rendered at the positions received by the server, moving objects and animation would look choppy and jittery. Dropped packets would also cause noticeable glitches. The trick to solve this problem is to go back in time for rendering, so positions and animations can be continuously interpolated between two recently received snapshot."


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KISTech
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Posted: 18th Jun 2010 00:44
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I think it means, if you split the difference between where the entity was, versus where the latest packet says it should be, you'll get smoother more accurate movements. Keeping in mind that not only the other players, but the player that is moving is also getting the same data about himself. It's a pretty good system.

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Derekioh
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Posted: 20th Jun 2010 18:31
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Xarshi, i just want to say that i'm really looking forword to your working beta/release version because i love the havok engine and dark physics and is not so great. Keep up the good work!
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Hassan
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Posted: 20th Jun 2010 18:34
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Hey Xarshi, may i ask you a question if you dont mind?

im trying to add rigid bodies to my engine using havok, but i dont know how to start, following the guide pdf, i got some source code but i cant test it because i dont know which headers/libraries i need to include, there are loads of them, i am getting alot of linking errors, so if you dont mind, can you tell me which headers and libraries are needed to get rigid bodies working? (memory route, hkpWorld and hkpRigidBody, and possibly visual debugger)

Thanks

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kordman916
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Posted: 23rd Jun 2010 07:02
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Dude, what happened to the Havok wrapper for Irrlicht that you were working on? Is it dead?


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Hayer
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Posted: 28th Jun 2010 15:54
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who cares about Irrlicht? this is DBP / GDK :3

Keep it simple.
Questions? Mail me
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Kryogenik
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Posted: 29th Jun 2010 19:46
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Quote: "who cares about Irrlicht? this is DBP / GDK :3"

He's predicting what will happen to this Havok Wrapper

cout<<"I'm learning C++, and this is all I know \n"
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thenerd
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Posted: 29th Jun 2010 19:59
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I hope not...


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kordman916
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Posted: 30th Jun 2010 05:53
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Xarshi, I know that you have the wrapper for DarkBasic in a use-able state but I was wondering if maybe you could try to get the wrapper for Irrlicht back on track too. I'm not trying to pressure you just asking a question is all (So there's no reason to try and flame me.) but if you could get a use-able wrapper for Irrlicht the entire Irrlicht community would be grateful. Also if you're not able to could I at least get a reason of why not?


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Xarshi
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2010 23:59
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Oh jeeze guys, sorry, I've been really lazy lately since summer started. I'm re-downloading Havok so I can once more pick up on this. I already have the working shapes and rigid bodies under control, however, I still may change things. Character controllers are beyond simple, so that's not a problem, and vehicles are simple too, just time consuming. After that I have to do triggers, raycasting, and constraints. And for the record, this wrapper will not drop. The Irrlicht wrapper dropped because I figured you could use Havok in its native form and didn't require a wrapper really.


kordman916
Woah! That was from a long time ago! Uh, I guess that fell apart really. I stopped using Irrlicht after I finished my classes fps in it. I have Havok integrated into it, so I guess I could send you the source code if you wish? It's pretty messy, but the physics related code is pretty well off, so THAT part shouldn't be too hard I guess. Hm, I might attempt at developing them simultaneously. The differences are pretty minor, so it's doable.

Derekioh
Thanks a lot! I'm looking forward to finishing it!

Hassan
Sure thing, I'll make it in a different post though. Havok does have a large number of headers, I agree. I remember how confused I was the first time I saw it.

XenoPhysics - A Havok Wrapper for DarkBASIC Professional
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Hassan
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Posted: 4th Jul 2010 11:26
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it took me a week or two, but i figured out which one's i needed, i blame havok for not explaining such things

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Kryogenik
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Posted: 5th Jul 2010 22:53
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Hey Hassan, which header files did you have to include? I'm learning C++ and I want to have it around for future reference (far in the future, I just learned how to make a triangle in direct x 9). Thanks.

cout<<"I'm learning C++, and this is all I know \n"
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Hassan
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Posted: 6th Jul 2010 11:24
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Good luck

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Melancholic
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Posted: 12th Jul 2010 20:14 Edited at: 13th Jul 2010 00:33
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Hey Xarshi, great plugin once again!

Though i seem to be having a problem with it. The charecter Controller commands appear to be broken(but it could be my promagging skills, which are lacking...). I was just wondering if you could point me in the right direction for this code? please exscuse the messieness of it



Edit: Okay thats one problem gone, but it has been replaced with another. When moving about the charecter controll kind of jerks, instead of smooth movement it seems that my fps is 2-3 but is infact 30. Is this a known problem?

Edit 2: Found a way to fix this but it isnt convienient, i found that putting the sync rate over 200 makes it smoother, i had it at 30 origionally. Is this intentional?
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The Viking
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Posted: 13th Jul 2010 04:19
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@Melancholic,

First off, I would like to point out that, from playing around with this, it REALLY matters which order you put your character movements, and camera updates, and such. From what I see, I have done it in much the same order and it worked... But, it may be worth it to try switching the order.

I had the same jerkiness as well, but, it was just a case of messing with the order to get it properly. You may want to try an order which positions the character controller, then rotates the character controller, then rotate the object, then moves the camera, followed by rotating the camera, then positioning the object. I know the order sounds strange, but i found that it worked best for one of my projects.

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Melancholic
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Posted: 14th Jul 2010 16:08 Edited at: 14th Jul 2010 16:22
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Thanks for that The Viking, i have now fixed my problem.

For anybody wondering, i have a very small example of code which works below



Edit: Added a better version of the code

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Clonkex
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Posted: 28th Jul 2010 07:52 Edited at: 28th Jul 2010 07:58
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Hey guys,

I'm confused. Havok's site isn't very helpful.....how do I download it???

EDIT: .....*dying of heart failure*.....738mb!.....56k!.....*dead*

Thanks,
Clonkex

Making games is easy.....finishing them is a different matter.

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Clonkex
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Posted: 28th Jul 2010 08:09
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Hey again guys,

How do I actually get this plugin? Is it available yet? I would LOVE to get it it looks really cool and I realised I don't need to download the 738mb Havok files so it better then I thought!

Reply soon,
Clonkex

Making games is easy.....finishing them is a different matter.

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BMacZero
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Posted: 28th Jul 2010 16:43
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You can try this, but it isn't really out yet.

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Clonkex
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Posted: 3rd Aug 2010 10:23
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Thanks but it gets a dll error (something like could not find MMC2.dll) when I call xeno start or whatever the command is.

Thanks again,
Clonkex

Making games is easy.....finishing them is a different matter.

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Drone84
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Posted: 6th Aug 2010 12:01
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I hope that this great plugin will be released soon... thanks Xarshi for your work !
Xenophysics corrects the lack of functionality of Dark Physics.
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Melancholic
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Posted: 8th Aug 2010 13:41
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Has anyone used this in a large project yet?, I am thinking about using it for my Intel competition entry but I am not sure if it will be stable enough. I am not too keen on the way Newton works and dark physics cost money :/(I’m a cheep ass guy)

All I need is simple boxes, spheres, though I might need some more complex object like a ramp(basically a cube split diagonally) but the mesh and convex commands do not seem to work.

I’ve used Xeno before in a similar smaller game and it seemed to handle fine,


I can count to banana...
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KISTech
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Posted: 11th Aug 2010 21:10 Edited at: 11th Aug 2010 22:55
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I'm trying to use this to make a simple demo of a ball rolling around on a .X model of a flat surface with holes in it.

I'm assuming I would use XENO MAKE RIGID BODY STATIC MESH to create a polygonal collision mesh, which is what I would need for the ball to drop through the holes, but whenever I use that command on the .X model it crashes.

What I'm after is the ability to rotate the plane, and have the ball roll in the direction of the tilt.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!!

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Melancholic
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Posted: 11th Aug 2010 22:53
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A static mesh would be ideal but troublesome at the same time. As the command seems to be pretty hit and miss if it will wor or not. Convex hulls could also be tried. If a static mesh will work for your mesh, then its simple as calling that command and xeno update in your loop


I can count to banana...
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KISTech
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Posted: 11th Aug 2010 22:58
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I tried it, but it keeps crashing. The model is a box flattened out with holes punched in it.

Also, do I need to make the model a character controller to be able to make it tilt? I've tried just making it a static rigid body, but can't get it to rotate with any commands.

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Clonkex
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Posted: 14th Aug 2010 12:50
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I haven't used Xeno (tried but got errors), but I'm guessing that the static rigid body is called a static rigid body for a reason. In other words, it won't rotate because it's static (not moving).

Clonkex

Making games is easy.....finishing them is a different matter.

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KISTech
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Posted: 14th Aug 2010 19:22
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I thought that might be the case. I tried making it dynamic too, but then it reacts to the ball being on it.

I've resorted to going back to Sparky's, and got a reasonable simulation of what I was after. I might remake the game after XenoPhysics is finished though, as I think it would make it that much better.

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Clonkex
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Posted: 17th Aug 2010 09:01
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Mmm...I would have thought that even though it is static it would rotate....did you use the DBPro ROTATE OBJECT command or the Xeno rotation commands? It definitely won't rotate using the DBPro commands because the object is being positioned by Xeno.

Clonkex

Making games is easy.....finishing them is a different matter.

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KISTech
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Posted: 17th Aug 2010 18:16
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I tried both.

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Clonkex
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Posted: 18th Aug 2010 00:36
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In that case, I'm afraid I can't help you unless I get Xeno myself and fiddle for ages.

Clonkex

Making games is easy.....finishing them is a different matter.

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thenerd
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Posted: 18th Aug 2010 15:19
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KISTech, in order to rotate a static (or dynamic) mesh, you'd need to use the xeno rotate mesh command, which does not work in this release... also, if you are still crashing with your box model, try using code to convert it to a mesh and back to an object, because xenon needs the object in the proper format, using a box created by make object box would likely give you more success. I'd suggest taking a look at the code if you know C++. I'm really wondering where xarshi is...


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KISTech
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Posted: 18th Aug 2010 20:21
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Quote: " I'm really wondering where xarshi is..."


Me too. I tried not to be annoying, but I emailed him at both addresses and haven't heard anything.

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kordman916
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Posted: 20th Aug 2010 12:18
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I'm not trying to be "That guy" but I don't see this wrapper moving along much further.

If you use Irrlicht and browse the forums then you might remember a post about the Havok wrapper by the exact same Xarshi. But what happened? He disappeared without a trace before finishing it.

Why does this matter you ask?

Because if we use that Wrapper as an example then you can assume what will happen to this one.

I'm not saying that he can't do it. I'm positive that he can finish wrapping Havok for DarkBasic but do I see him actually doing it? No.

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Clonkex
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Posted: 20th Aug 2010 12:43
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Lol he may be on holiday or sommit.

Clonkex

Making games is easy.....finishing them is a different matter.

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gwheycs62egydws
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Posted: 20th Aug 2010 13:30
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as far as I can see this project of Xarshi has been in the works
for some time , I know I would like to see it finished but
we all have to do our best and just wait ....

I still do not fully understand how to make a game

I've been playing around with DB since 2000 .. trying demo's
but my brain just can't get past the strait line concept
and lumping every peace of the program in one file
not to mention how much time each peace of the program
should be allowed to complete it's activity

building 3d took me about 3 years to grasp
Lego and playdough was finally how I came to understand

I still have building in fluid moment and artificial intelligence
basically the rules I want my games to follow

breaking glass code has been the biggest thing that I have been
looking for with little to no success to the point I want it

even damage to an object has been limited

so I waite and I keep looking and get a point here and there
and one day I will find all that I need

Resourceful@shaw.ca

If a thought is Just a thought ~ so whats the main thought ?
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KISTech
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Posted: 20th Aug 2010 21:23
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Give it a little more time. His last post here was July 2nd. Literally anything could have happened, we just don't know.

In the mean time, I believe he did release the source code for his work up to this point. Someone might pick up where he left off.

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thenerd
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Posted: 21st Aug 2010 00:49
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Last I talked to him, it was around the middle of july and he said he was really busy for school, so he might be busy...


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WickedVixen
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2010 16:17
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I used one of his earlier releases and I loved the simplicity of the demos he offered...

I built a couple of things and managed to get some stuff done, but nothing further than a "motorcycle" and "ramp" system, jumping between the two-- figuring speed and distance-- the 'cycle' hits the take-off ramp, then launches into the air. It almost never lands on the other ramp-- smashing into it in some fashion or missing it completely... >_< But it is kinda fun to smash the 'cycle'... LOL ^_^

Anyway, I hope Xarshi is not too busy or swamped by Life as Life has it's own set of rules... lol

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binsky
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Well guys, im a big Havok guy, and id always talk to xarshi once a day on AIM. He hasnt been on AIM in months. Idk if he is going to come back. Does anyone know if he posted the source code on this thread?
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KISTech
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Posted: 4th Sep 2010 21:35
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It's about half way down page 12.

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Melancholic
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Posted: 4th Sep 2010 21:38
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If you continue Xeno then I guarantee there will be one happy community here!


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gwheycs62egydws
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Posted: 4th Sep 2010 21:47
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I've not seen a full posting of his code just tiny peaces
so unless he has sent a copy to some one there has not been such ;o(

Resourceful@shaw.ca

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KISTech
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Posted: 5th Sep 2010 03:43
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The attachment in his post on page 12 is rather large. So I suspect it's complete source for what he's done to this point.

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ShaunRW
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Posted: 5th Sep 2010 10:30 Edited at: 5th Sep 2010 10:33
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I was going to give finishing this a try a few weeks ago, but it was a bit to advanced for me. I hope you have better luck then I did.

I'm pretty sure the source code was posted here: http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=162138&b=8&msg=2025228#m2025228

I really hope someone does finish this project.


ShaunRWs Timer Plugin.
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binsky
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Posted: 5th Sep 2010 23:50
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Hmmm well if he posted the source, that could be a clue that he knew that in the future he may not return. I did write a havok wrapper for DarkGDK, so i may continue this project with the current source he has provided.
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ShaunRW
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Posted: 6th Sep 2010 07:41
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He said,
Quote: "First off, I'm sure that even if I fail, someone will pick it up since I'm releasing the source (already released one version of it). So no worries there."



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Matty H
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Quote: "Hmmm well if he posted the source, that could be a clue that he knew that in the future he may not return. I did write a havok wrapper for DarkGDK, so i may continue this project with the current source he has provided. "


@binsky - You are well placed to complete Xarshi's work, or more likely write a plugin using Xarshi's work as a guide. I too have thought about writing a Havok wrapper. I am also thinking about re-writing my current PhysX wrapper, its one or the other for me.
I would be very interested in being part of a team to complete Xarshi's work, let me know what you think.

The biggest sticking point for me is the fact that I don't want to write something if Xarshi is still working on it, it would be pointless as we only need one Havok wrapper.

So, anyone out there want to complete a professional physics wrapper for the community then make yourselves known and we may be able to put a small team together.

Xarshi, this is your baby and I would not start anything without your say so, let us know if you are planning on completeing this or if you would like to let it go.

fulcrum physics - free collision/physics plug-in for DarkGDK
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Matty H
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Posted: 8th Sep 2010 21:00
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I dont like how I came across in that last post
Putting a team together was probably not my greatest idea, plus I should not talk of such things until we here from Xarshi.

Between October-January I have some spare time, I am going to choose between a Havok plug-in(if we dont hear from Xarshi), improving my PhysX plug-in(and make dbPro version) or maybe making another game.

Instead of hijacking this thread I will put a post up in the dbPro section about the pros and cons of PhysX and Havok and decide from there.

Either way, everyone should have more physics options pretty soon, I hope Xarshi is OK by the way.

fulcrum physics - free collision/physics plug-in for DarkGDK
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gwheycs62egydws
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hi matty halewood

ok so a team may not be the thought

but when it comes to people testing or even trying out
other peoples example of the part I would more fit into at this point

I know there are people way more skilled at programing than I am
I got a few ideas here and there

but I am more of cut and past if I understand well enough
what I am looking at LOL

time will tell if Xarshi pops back in and sees what's going on

I've not nearly every thing I DBP has sold to make games
and any addon's that I have found in the forum

in a couple of cases I found free versions of addition's
I payed for not saying the payed ones are worse than the free ones
both work fine for what they were made for

I've filled up so far to date 6 dvd's of things I played around with and what I found and played around with to better understand

I've found a few free program that give me more options
not that I completely are any ware near understanding them

so much info ;oO

Resourceful@shaw.ca

If a thought is Just a thought ~ so whats the main thought ?
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