Sorry your browser is not supported!

You are using an outdated browser that does not support modern web technologies, in order to use this site please update to a new browser.

Browsers supported include Chrome, FireFox, Safari, Opera, Internet Explorer 10+ or Microsoft Edge.

Program Announcements / The Elimination of Evil - al Qaeda first shooter demo

Author
Message
ZomBfied
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 2nd Oct 2002
Location:
Posted: 19th Jan 2003 12:22
Link
I saw Henry Rollins spoken word last week. He said a lot of cool things, one of which is this: In about 5 weeks in the US we kill more of our own people (murders+ drunk driving accidents + suicides) than in the terrorist attacks of 9-11. So if you are a terrorist and you want to get at us, just stay home. We're doing a fine job without any help.
And I liked the Donkey Kong Country games. Gameplay was pretty good.

Back to top
Profile PM
Arrow
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 1st Jan 2003
Location: United States
Posted: 19th Jan 2003 13:45
Link
Totally agree on all counts, ZomBfied.

This is Truth!
This is my Belief!
...at least for now.
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Ole Sparky
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 6th Dec 2002
Location: United States
Posted: 20th Jan 2003 07:18
Link
the architect:

Ok, I have several sources on American and British battle deaths and military strength (in World War II).

**********

Source 1 - http://gi.grolier.com/wwii/wwii 16.html

America's Peak Strength: 12,300,000
America's Battle Deaths: 292,131
UK's Peak Strength: 5,120,000
UK's Battle Deaths: 244,723

Source 2 - http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/2WWbritishA.htm

UK's 1945 Strength: 2,920,000
UK's Battle Deaths: 144,079

Source 3 - US Department of Defense Website

America's Peak Strength: 16,112,566
America's Battle Deaths: 405,399

Source 4 - http://www.valourandhonor.com/DB/BACK/Casualties.htm

America's Battle Deaths: 295,000
UK's Battle Deaths: 326,000
UK's Civilian Deaths: 62,000

Note that the Department of Defense's website has a higher number of Americans serving and dying than the other sites; also note that the British site (guessing Source 4 is UK because valor is spelled with a U) has a higher number of British battle deaths than the other sites.

--

Also, in one post you say: "I know England did not fight the war ALONE! I know it, I admit it."

In another post you say: "the allies Britain had, but by mid 1940 we had none through to mid 1941".

Which one do you mean?

--

"How would any American feel if another country was going to murder your family because of what your government has done and you wanted no part?"

-It's a tired point, but Saddam has been murdering Iraqi families for 20 years, and you make it sound like our government will go into Iraqi civilians' houses and murder families, which we WOULD NEVER do.

**********

Arrow aka Hiro Hentai:

A- We don't care as much how well our entertainment does in other countries because we don't get as much revenue from them as we do from marketing movies and TV shows in the US. That's not narcisstic, its common business sense.

B- If you're mistaking the Indi awards for 'awards in India' (I'm presuming Indai means India), then your point isn't even valid. If, however, you do mean 3 awards in India, no, the American audience doesn't care, because the Indians have different tastes than Americans, and therefore a film that does well there isn't at all guaranteed to do well here. Has an Indian movie ever been advertised in India as having gotten x many awards in the US?

C- American movies and TV are OBVIOUSLY made for Americans, that's why they're called AMERICAN moveies and TV shows. And it's once again common business sense that if a show or movie doesn't do good in a region (such as America) you don't keep marketing/advertising it in that FRICKIN' REGION!

D- If American movies and TV shows really showed what life in America was like, you'd have terrorists taking over a 40-story high-rise in Los Angeles, Baltimore would've been destroyed by a nuclear weapon, New York would have so many car chases and shootouts it's not even funny, there would be killers with hockey masks in every other neighborhood, gangs would sing and dance in the streets, evil super-villains would try a new evil plan every year just to have it foiled by a lone secret agent, etc, etc, etc.

American movies and TV DO NOT accurately depict the American lifestyle.

E- PLEASE work on getting your points across in an easier-to-read/understand way.

**********

One last thing: THERE IS NO C IN ELECTROJAKO45! YOU BRITS GET IT RIGHT HALF THE TIME, BUT THE OTHER HALF YOU EITHER CAN'T SEEM TO READ A SCREEN NAME, OR ELSE YOUR NEED TO ADD EXTRA LETTERS TO EVERYTHING APPLIES TO WITHOUT AN 'OR'/'OUR' IN THEM.

Sorry, just had to get that out of the way.

-Ya know how much I hate 'Stack Overload Error's?-
Thhhhhhhhhhhiiiiiiiisssssssssssss muuuuuuuuccchhh!
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Arrow
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 1st Jan 2003
Location: United States
Posted: 21st Jan 2003 06:52
Link
Ok, ElectroJako45, first, Piont B. If an movie was made in another country and is brought to the American Silver Screen, if that movie won awards in it's birth country, then, yes they are listed. The same goes vias versa.

Now then, Point A, B, and C all prove my point. As for point D use some frellin common sence. Ever country does the action bit, what I'm talking about is the protrail of American life, knothead. If you're goona look up how many people died in a War that over 50 yeard old, then look up how many people die in car crashes last year. How about fireaim related fatalities? What we're talking about here is not how America won WWII, it's about senceless, tasteles, arogant, naristist, whiny, spiteful, hypocritcal Americans who think they own the world are potraying them selfs as heros, saving the day and making the world a better place when all they're doing is making up for dick fear by murdering people who have different skin color or religous beliefs.

"You don't have to a political expert to understand the bigger dick forean policy at work. it goes someing like this, What they have bigger dicks? BOMB THEM!" George Carlin

This is Truth!
This is my Belief!
...at least for now.
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Shadow Robert
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 22nd Sep 2002
Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 21st Jan 2003 11:54 Edited at: 17th Apr 2003 05:01
Link
[edit-]/..

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Arrow
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 1st Jan 2003
Location: United States
Posted: 21st Jan 2003 12:44
Link
Raven, I agree with you completly, except on one thing, Harry Potter. But you're right about british films doing well over here. In fact I seam to recall a movie done based on a popular series of books. In fact they've attarcted a cult following over the decades, and now the movie in one of the highest grossing movie right now. Yep, you guessed it, Lord of the Rings. Now my memory is not what it used to be (blame it on the American school standard) but where was Tolken born again?
I must sound like a steriotypical American, pradling on about TV and movies, but if it furthers my cause, I don't mind.

This is Truth!
This is my Belief!
...at least for now.
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Fluffy Paul
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 16th Dec 2002
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 21st Jan 2003 17:50
Link
I think the point is that we all have our own ways of doing things. You all argue about "our" country and what "we" did in a certain war. Isn't that strange, though? It's not like any of you were in Iraq in 1993? Or in the world wars, or in the American Civil war? We have to realise that any historical sitution is distorted by the people who relay it to us - our teachers, the historians and so on as they all have their own viewpoints and feelings which distort how they pass on what was once objective truth.

The other thing is that we are arguing about the effects of descisions made by politicians. I'm not defending them but you have to take into account that a national leader be it a president or a prime minister cannot make decisions on their own. There are always other people who have to agree in order for that decision to become policy or law. Politicians are often supported by people who want favours in return, so sometimes they have to do stuff that will only be advantageous to a select group of financial contributors. As a result they have to justify their actions to their population - hence the propaganda. And it's not just wars that generate "spin" but other things like new tolls and taxes and suchlike.

We can never know all the reasons why things happen. I imagine it's because they often don't happen for the purest of reasons. For example: Israel are being twats and are heading towards war so the "West" needs a new ally in the middle east. There aren't any there already and it's not polite to just pick a random country and invade - unless there is a good reason to. I'm not saying that this was the only reason for war in Afghanistan - that war toppled an evil regime that was destroying the country from within. I'm saying that nothing happens unless it's something that
a) was being planned anyway.
b) can be made to look good to the voters.

America charged for it's services during World War 2 and made billions - real billions, not just thousands of millions. The US Government has released evidence in the past which says that they knew about the planned attack on Pearl Harbour but did not pass this information on. Nobody has given a concrete reason as for why. Some say that they didn't think the Japs had the balls to actually do it so there was no point losing sleep about it. Others say that the US Government at the time wanted to get involved in WWII but didn't have any reason to participate in what was, essentially, a European domestic issue. And we will never know the truth. It's worth knowing the different viewpoints but it's not worth arguing over it. What are we going to solve by name calling and comparing gun crime figures? We have different cultures and different traditions. I can't just go up to an American and say "You bastard you killed all those Native Americans and stole there land" because that particular person has probably never killed one and most likey paid money for their house. Likewise you can't go off on one about slavery because, the Empire that supported it for so many years was the Empire which had a bit of a spiritual revolution in the late 1800's and from then on worked very hard to stamp it out. The Royal Navy went about, basically, hijacking slave ships and returing them to their port of origin where they would free the slaves. Sierra Leone still has the "Arch Of Freedom" through which returned slaves would walk.

One day we're going to be one people and in school they'll look back on how there used to be different countries and how people discriminated against each other because they were a different colour or spoke a different language or were born somewhere else or had different amounts of money or lived in a place that had a different political system, and the kids in that school will piss their pants as such a ridiculous situation because it will be so alien to them.

Ending a sentence with a French word is so passé
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Soyuz
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 17th Dec 2002
Location:
Posted: 21st Jan 2003 21:16
Link
Amen. Someone's talking sense at last.
Back to top
Profile PM Website
Arrow
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 1st Jan 2003
Location: United States
Posted: 21st Jan 2003 22:48
Link
Good point, using the past actions of a country won't prove anything.

This is Truth!
This is my Belief!
...at least for now.
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
The One Ring
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 15th Sep 2002
Location: United States
Posted: 21st Jan 2003 23:25
Link
Vageta - (men are not built to multitask, this is why i believe Windows is a guy

That has to be the funniest thing I've heard in a LONG while. I'll have to remember that one...

AMD Athlon 900 768MB DDR
ATI Radeon 64MB DDR All-In-Wonder 7500, ATI XPert 128 16MB
Sound Blaster Audigy Gamer w/FireWire Support
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Excalibar
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 5th Oct 2002
Location:
Posted: 22nd Jan 2003 04:00
Link
I just have to say one thing. The main reason that America is going to war against Iraq is to set up a another democracy in the middle east (besides Israel). Right now the US is in a war against terror that is perpetuated by the middle eastern tyrants and dictators who send their people on suicide missions to increase their own personal power and influence. It is the United State's hope that we can majorly decrease terrorism by destroying the middle eastern dictators that support it and also increase the quality of life throughout the middle east by instituting democracies. Bush cannot says this because he needs the support of some of these countries. Terrorism is just a symptom of the war the US and Israel have been fighting. This war is a class of civilizations between the West and the East. Don't imagine for a moment that the US will be the only target of muslim extremists. is war is not caused by the US just like World War II was not started by England or France, but we will do everything in our power to protect our citizens. (Sorry for making this so long but I had to express my view)

Back to top
Profile PM
Excalibar
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 5th Oct 2002
Location:
Posted: 22nd Jan 2003 05:40
Link
*is = This

Back to top
Profile PM
Arrow
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 1st Jan 2003
Location: United States
Posted: 22nd Jan 2003 06:59
Link
Last time I checked all these terrorist we're not supported by any government. In any case the US is just using this terrorisim as a reason to do as they please, Sadiam has nothing to do with terrorism. The pencil pushers and lobbests (toadies of pure evil) saw 9/11 as a way to make more money and take away the rights of the American people. That's all this is about, money and power. They only get involed when there is a buck to be earned. If not how come they're still raping, torcuring, and murdering Tibetin Nuns in China? Why don't we do something about that? Because we don't want to lose all that cheap slave labor. America, land of the greedy and corupt.

This is Truth!
This is my Belief!
...at least for now.
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Hilmi2k
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 29th Nov 2002
Location:
Posted: 22nd Jan 2003 14:48
Link
Damn....

Now if I were to say what it feels like being an Arab?

I cant even grow a goatie in fear I'd have a bunker buster dropped into my bedroom window.

OK, its not that bad, but hey, this argument is silly... It started out OK with the statement that the game is a bit insensitive. But starting to become seriously political here.

Look, I found the game offending a bit, because like most games, they all seem to concentrate on Muslim "terrorists". It is not often that you get a game like no one lives forever... where there was nobody to be offended.

Games are supposed to be fun. In fun, you should try not to hurt peoples feelings, because that is not right in any moral/religous/social standards.

I actualy admire the patriotism of american productions, but I dispise the racism adopted in making certain races/religions prime targets for use as badies in movies and games. Patriotism is good. Patriots are people happy with their country.

But at the same time, patriotism in excess is stupidity, or maybe if you had enough excessivly patriotic people, you develop a mob culture. Or if not mob culture, then worse, what I call zombie culture... just like in that horrible movie, resident evil.... a full country of mindless zombies. Or maybe I should call them Media drones. Ruled by Lord TV.

Hehe, thats a good idea for a game. You could have huge media companies controling countries indirectly to their own interests. And you could be somebody who has seen through it. Kinda like "The Matrix", but more scientificaly feasable.
Back to top
Profile PM
Arrow
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 1st Jan 2003
Location: United States
Posted: 22nd Jan 2003 19:21
Link
To me patriot is a four letter (but not because of American school standards), antway you're confusing patriotism with fake partiotism. Real patriotism is "I love my country, I can't imagine what it'll be like to live in another, life is good". However, fake patriotism, which is the majority now, is "Our counrty is better than you country!". See the differance?

This is Truth!
This is my Belief!
...at least for now.
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Shadow Robert
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 22nd Sep 2002
Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 22nd Jan 2003 19:36 Edited at: 17th Apr 2003 05:02
Link
[edit-]/...

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Arrow
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 1st Jan 2003
Location: United States
Posted: 23rd Jan 2003 05:08
Link
My Thoughts on the American Politics

Thare are three things that are ruining America on a political level.

1) Lobbiest. These are truely the worst things that has every walked the planet. Thare sole porpuse is to make money. Gas and oil lobbests have kept funding away from clean energy research by funding politicains campains and getting them to vote against it. I don't know about you but does this sound like bribes?

2) A two party system. Washington's fairwell speach warned a new and growing country about political parties. With a two party system it doesn't matter who the politain is, only id he's REP or DEM. In many states your required to choose what party you belong to, and your not aloud to vote for any one not of your party. That, in my opinion, makes the whole election invaid. Since there is only two parties, all issues are solely determinded by the majority party, they don't vote on issues only party loyalty. There must be at least 4 political party for the system to work as is.

3) Voters and the voting System. During this last election we, had I never heard any say they were going to for for a canidate. I only heard them say they'ld vote against another. The only way people will ever truely see how badly the system is to not vote. This country is a fake Democracy. We don't vote on issues, we vote for other to vote for us. Because of this the first to catogories have formed. In the history of the US, three Presidents have been elected, even though they didn't have the most votes.

The system is flawed.

This is Truth!
This is my Belief!
...at least for now.
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Shadow Robert
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 22nd Sep 2002
Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 24th Jan 2003 13:36 Edited at: 17th Apr 2003 05:02
Link
[edit-]/....

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Jedive
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 24th Jan 2003
Location: Spain
Posted: 24th Jan 2003 15:24
Link
-Most historians, American AND BRITISH AND FRENCH AND EVEN GERMAN agree that if America had never been drawn into World War II, Britain would have been invaded, and the war would have been lost.

HAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA. Would you tell me WHAT historians agree with that? maybe only your history-teacher? I AM A SPANISH HISTORIAN, and I'm sure that the Russians won the WW2, NOT Americans. The only think that American army did, were making a complete massacre at Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The same they did at Afganistan, because... do you really think that EVERY afgan people were terrorists? I really not.

The way US does thinks is ONLY good for yourselves. This is why, outside of your frontiers, nobody likes your goverment and nobody likes your patriotism (well, nobody except Tony Blair and Jose María Aznar ). Thankfully, not all the americans are like this.

I think that is very very hypocritical to say that americans will start a war with Iraq because usa can't consent Iraq (the "irresponsible hands") dangerous weapons (biological and such). I've heard that in the news... DAMN MAN!!! The ONLY COUNTRY that has ever used an atomic weapon agains a civil population were the United Stated of America over Hiroshima and Nagasaki... think now... what are the irresponsible hands? Everithing because if USA haven't finished the war quickly, Russia would have won it, and Russia was communist.

There is no way to peace. Peace is the way.

Back to top
Profile PM Email
Arrow
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 1st Jan 2003
Location: United States
Posted: 24th Jan 2003 20:23
Link
Yeah, I still find that puzzling, communisim is bad, very bad, yet who has the usa's most favored trade status? China, a communist country. Not that's the worst thing they are though, they're torcuring and murdering Tibetin Nuns, yet America turns a blind eye. I this country.

This is Truth!
This is my Belief!
...at least for now.
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Shadow Robert
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 22nd Sep 2002
Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 25th Jan 2003 18:21 Edited at: 17th Apr 2003 05:03
Link
[edit-]/.....

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Jedive
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 24th Jan 2003
Location: Spain
Posted: 25th Jan 2003 19:36
Link
yeah, i don't really think communism is bad. I always vote for the communist party in the elections (the party is called "Izquierda Unida" -United Left-... does it make sense, the difference between Left (Communism, socialism, and such) and Right (Fascism, Capitalism...) in english?

Back to top
Profile PM Email
Arrow
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 1st Jan 2003
Location: United States
Posted: 26th Jan 2003 03:06
Link
Ack, the whole world's going to hell in a handbasket. Where are those two bullheaded American Patiots, this forum is no fun without some kinda conflict. Soon it'll get so bad I'll have to start into religion.

This is Truth!
This is my Belief!
...at least for now.
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Excalibar
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 5th Oct 2002
Location:
Posted: 26th Jan 2003 05:29
Link
I am an American however I do not see comunism as a bad idea. However it is only a brilliant theory that does not work in real life. In real life some one always gets too much power and the government becomes corrupt. It is human nature to horde power. You cannot have communism until people try to improve themselves instead of become richer or more powerful than their neighbors.

Back to top
Profile PM
Shadow Robert
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 22nd Sep 2002
Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 26th Jan 2003 07:58 Edited at: 17th Apr 2003 05:04
Link
[edit-]/......

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Shock
AGK Developer
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 24th Oct 2002
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 26th Jan 2003 16:06
Link
lol, ElectroJako45 is a total dick isnt he?

Anyway, Raven was telling the truth, all facts on how it is. You (like so many other yanks), believe in lies fed to you by your government and your media. Its about time america, as a country, just grew up and recognised they arnt the only westernized country in this world. Britain was the first MEDC ever, thanx to having an industrial revolution before any other country in the world. European'ers where to follow (due to them being neighbours).

America is a new country, i mean the city i live in, Hull (a fairly new English city), has been around about 3 times longer than america as a country. How on earth do you expect you invented EVERYTHING inside about 300 years or so? Nearly everything on this planet was invented by us, and then made better by european'ers (mainly germans), and the americans than took the credit.

Ask an american which country invented the internet. Wrong, they were German!
Ask an american which country invented the first b&w TV. This time it was the brits.
Ask an american which country invented the colour TV. The Germans again.
Ask an american which country invented the LCD display. Lol, it was some guys from Hull University

The thing i DESPISE about americans, is WE ALWAYS help you (e.g. teaming up with you to go to iraq). We never get anything in return for our troubles (the us government actually gives the IRA money so that they can go round blowing up innocent brits).

Tony Blair is also a total dick. He let in all these kosovans and crap that roam our streets today stabbing people because theyre bored or sumat. He didnt even consult the british public. I can safely say that he wont get back in to power, even if he did he'd get assinated (hell, i'd kill him myself if it was for the good of the country). Im sort of hoping the BNP come into power, who will chuck out all these kosovans, and any that retaliate will be shot dead, and tell the yanks where to go on their war ideas. At the moment, with soft Tony Blair, we may aswell call our selves americans, i mean even the american general guy called us a "US Satellite" in those exact words.

This is interesting though, there are some nice americans out there, but if i stereotyped an american (i know i shouldnt), i would decribe them as a fat, lazy couch-potato who didnt know anything that happened outside their own country, and didnt know what actually was outside the boundaries of their country. Even Bush still believes america is the only "free country", or at least the first to be free. I mean i'd much rather live here than america when you put it that way, we're alot more free in europe than in america.

Wow, i must of got pissed off reading this lol

...::::ShockForge::::...

Ambient Software coming soon!
Back to top
Profile PM
Arrow
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 1st Jan 2003
Location: United States
Posted: 27th Jan 2003 01:17
Link
I agree. There is one thing that America has produced that is worth mensioning, George Carlin. I talked about him before, for you that don't know him you should. He's comidean that been doing it for over 50 years. He started out as a nice, clean, friendly comic. Now he's a foul-mouthed, angry, anti-american, anti-religion, anti-people, comic. He's a real geneus, if you haven't haerd some of his stuff you should. He tells it like it is, it make me wake up and see this country for how it really is.

This is Truth!
This is my Belief!
...at least for now.
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Ole Sparky
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 6th Dec 2002
Location: United States
Posted: 27th Jan 2003 06:51
Link
You know what I think? I think that we should stop insulting countries. At least, I'm going to lay off the UK, as I recognize that a fair amount of today's technology originated there, and you all DID win a major battle early on in WWII, and fight quite well for your situation in the air and sea for two years before we joined in (if you had fought without the US for five years like the one guys said, that would mean you guys had been at war w/ the Germans in 1936 or 1937). If you British and Americans that hate your own country want to keep insulting the US, fine. But don't expect me to respond to those basjings with any more of my 'bull-headed comments'.

On a lighter note, I personally think that Europe and the UK would be better off if the UK joined the EC (I'm not sure if it has, though), adopted the Euro, and got away from its 'we're separate from the Continent' philosophy that it had just before World War II. I can CERTAINLY understand how you British would resent becoming more like a part of one European confederacy-style continent and losing some of your individuality, however.

If anyone feels like calling me a coward, I don't care. If anyone wants to say that I'm backing out of an argument that I can't win, you're right, because everyone involved in that argument had/has different facts, and we all just kept/keep flinging insults that don't have any REAL backing at each other's nationalities.

I also applaud Fluffy Paul for putting some sense into this thread, and I agree with Arrow on his Thoughts On American Politics. However, I feel that communism is doomed to fail, as an economy can't really work with one small group of people making every single decision. I think that those of you who say communism can work if not abused may be thinking of socialism, which is the system loosely used by the UK and many other European countries (high taxes but free health care and long vacations).

There, I've ended my part of the argument. Hope "y'all" can do the same.

-Ya know how much I hate 'Stack Overload Error's?-
Thhhhhhhhhhhiiiiiiiisssssssssssss muuuuuuuuccchhh!
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Ole Sparky
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 6th Dec 2002
Location: United States
Posted: 27th Jan 2003 06:55
Link
I also meant to say that accusing me of backing out of an argument I can't win would be correct, because no one could/can win that argument.

-Ya know how much I hate 'Stack Overload Error's?-
Thhhhhhhhhhhiiiiiiiisssssssssssss muuuuuuuuccchhh!
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Shadow Robert
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 22nd Sep 2002
Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 27th Jan 2003 13:22 Edited at: 17th Apr 2003 05:05
Link
[edit-]/.......

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Ole Sparky
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 6th Dec 2002
Location: United States
Posted: 27th Jan 2003 14:25
Link
Well, there's an example of Arrow's 'fake patriotism' (i.e, "our country's better then your country)!!!



-Ya know how much I hate 'Stack Overload Error's?-
Thhhhhhhhhhhiiiiiiiisssssssssssss muuuuuuuuccchhh!
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Arrow
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 1st Jan 2003
Location: United States
Posted: 28th Jan 2003 07:05
Link
In 1999 a game by the name of Front Mission 3 was released to America. In takes place in the year 2112, where most of the world is part of 3 different political organizations, the EC (Eupopian Block Community), the USN (Uniteted States of the New Continent) and the OCU (Oceana Community Union). Through out the game you can access an in-game internet, in one site it gives the history of the 3 "countries". It states that the EC fully forms in 2010. Does this sound a little spooky? I'm kinda curoius to see if Square employes Phycics.

In any case there is a plotical vacume of greed, corruption, and power. Where one is voted out another will take his place. In America there is a semi-new political group that I'm part of. It's called Independant, we vote on the issues, we don't give in to lobiests, we accully want to help our country. We think for ourselfs, becuase of this we will never get elected. We won't be abill to form massive campains, or group together. However some day, all the greed and corption will colaps opon all the souless cadavers in office. No one will know what to do, chaos will run rapant, and I'll have the sadifaction of being abill to say "I told you so," and "you made your bed, now sleep in it."

The only real way to fix the system is to tear down the old. It may sound criud, even anarchic, but it is truth. By the way it's been around 175 milloin years since the dinosuars died right? We're about to aproch a gallactic year. Sounds like fun. Don't get me wrong, I'm not some apocolipse nut or a fruit chirstain with dreams of rapture. I'm just saying with the way things are, there better be a catalict to knot some sence into this planet or we're going spin out of control.

By the way, the USA thinks they're so big in the military department is becuase they're members of the big 6. That's right folks, nuclear weapons, Satain tolet paper.

This is Truth!
This is my Belief!
...at least for now.
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Ole Sparky
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 6th Dec 2002
Location: United States
Posted: 28th Jan 2003 14:32
Link
Hm, thought there were 7, possibly 8 nuclear powers: United States, United Kingdom, Russian Federation, France, China, Pakistan, India, and possibly North Korea...

-Ya know how much I hate 'Stack Overload Error's?-
Thhhhhhhhhhhiiiiiiiisssssssssssss muuuuuuuuccchhh!
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Shadow Robert
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 22nd Sep 2002
Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 28th Jan 2003 16:21 Edited at: 17th Apr 2003 05:05
Link
[edit-]/........

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
SoulMan
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 22nd Nov 2002
Location: In a house somewhere on the planet earth
Posted: 29th Jan 2003 06:33
Link
Well Vegeta let's put it this way.
If the A-Bomb was never dropped in Japan, we would have fought Japan for 5 years longer.
And what countries are we pissing off?
The ones that support terrorism?
Maybe France and Germany?
Do you really think I give a god damned about those countries.
No.
Why.
BECAUSE WE ARE THE MOST POWERFUL NATION ON THE PLANET.
China wouldn't even dare oppose us.
If they started shit, we would be the ones that finishes it.
Also on the subject of tests.
Back in 1945 did we have super computers able to predict how a nuclear bomb would explode?
No.
We had to set one off.
It's going to be funny when you have to use a nuke and it doesn't work.
And what is out stand point on nukes Mr. British?
Do you actually live in this country?
No.
I don't see how you can even sit there typing negative things about the united states.
Remember, we saved your asses in WWII. If it hadn't been for us, you would have been crushed by Hitler.
Pure and simple. France was crushed by Hitler. Most of the european nations were under Hitlers power.
Who was it that planned D-Day?
Who was it that dropped the bombs to stop the Japanese?
Us.
Show me one thing Britan has done to make the world better
I haven't seen one thing Britan did to make the world a better place to live.
All I hear is complaints, groans and whining.
In the USA I hear the sound of a machine that is doing great things and getting them done.
We took action when the terrorist attacked us.
If the terrorist blew up Big Ben today with a plane, what would britan do?
Have debates.
Plus what many of you are not even seeing is that Saddam is connected to terrorism. Who the fuck cares about the oil. He is supporting the terrorist with money he makes from selling the oil.
In fact, he pays the families $50,000 for their sons and daughters to go and blow themselves on the buses.
That's terriorism plain and simple.
Saddam would want you to think otherwise.
Soulman

I am my own and own my am I
Back to top
Profile PM
Draez
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 1st Nov 2002
Location:
Posted: 29th Jan 2003 07:54
Link
just would like to say that this is going no where.. and leave with this quote that Winston Churchill said after Japan bombed Pearl Harbor
"We've won the war" (opening a bottle of champagne)

when asked why he said that his response was that America was like a sleeping tiger and Japan has just woken it up.

You can all say what you want and you would be right to hate America... they are always the ones that do the dirty work. If we didnt drop the A-bomb 5 more years of war.. five more years of DEATH and yet they are still frowned upon for doing it. That is just the tip of the iceberg. It's easy to point fingers isn't it, Raven? Keep hiding behind your PC and go to your pubs and talk about how evil the US is and how righteous your country is but don't look in the mirror pal, you may be staring at the same thing.

Back to top
Profile PM
Shadow Robert
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 22nd Sep 2002
Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 29th Jan 2003 09:22 Edited at: 17th Apr 2003 05:06
Link
[edit-]/.........

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Arrow
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 1st Jan 2003
Location: United States
Posted: 29th Jan 2003 09:38
Link
Soulman, you are, for lack of a better word, a frellin morron!!! Let me jump on ass and point out all problems with your rant. Wait let me get a soda cuz this'll take while.

Am I a butterfly dreaming I'm a man?
Or a bowling ball dreaming I'm a plate of samishi?
Never assume that what you see or feel is real.
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Arrow
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 1st Jan 2003
Location: United States
Posted: 29th Jan 2003 10:08
Link
No soda, but iced tea is just fine. Ok, lets see here...

[B]And what countries are we pissing off?
The ones that support terrorism?
Maybe France and Germany?[/B]

Try nearly ever country over there. An indpendant suvvey was taken in over a 100 countries to see how the people view America. Our best was 50% liked us. In other countries we got as low as 10%.

[B]BECAUSE WE ARE THE MOST POWERFUL NATION ON THE PLANET.
China wouldn't even dare oppose us.
If they started shit, we would be the ones that finishes it.[/B]

Ha ha ha, please! Leave that grabage in the Stuporman comics. Yeah we'ld end it by surrendering. In any case look on the bottom of any toy or funature. China makes all our good for us, if we when to war with them we would fun out of suplies in a week.


[B]Who was it that dropped the bombs to stop the Japanese?
Us.[/B]

Big whoopie-do!!! we had allready pushed them back to the mainland, all we needed was to do was invade Japan and it would be over. It wouldn't have toaken 5 years, it would've taken 5 months and 1,000,000 American lives. The only reason we dropped the bomb was to show the world how strong we were, how noble. I can't see how anyone can be proud of killing inosent civialans. Yes, Pearl Harbor was attacked, but only 300 people at most we're killed. Plus the US knew the attack was going to happen 6 hours earlier, just like we knew about the 9/11 attack! If three of our ship weren't out patroling during the attack, our Pacific Fleet would of been gone. Pearl Habor was a miltary base, we dropped the bomb on civilian cities, if that don't sound like terroisim, I don't know what does.

[B]Show me one thing Britan has done to make the world better
I haven't seen one thing Britan did to make the world a better place to live.[/B]

Well, they did suppy America with it's people, jackass. Although becuase of that people like you are here, so I'll give you this one.

[B]Plus what many of you are not even seeing is that Saddam is connected to terrorism. Who the fuck cares about the oil. He is supporting the terrorist with money he makes from selling the oil.[/B]

What are you, retarted? You accully beleive that? i bet you beleive that pot will lead to other drugs and that communists are going to take over the world. The US have been using that terroist excuse to get there way since before the second tower fell. How else could they get the illegal wiretappings back? We got nothing on Saddam. Why else would we wait untill the UN inspector end their searches to share what we know. So far the only thing saying that Saddam has these weapons is us. Not the weapon inspectors, not the reports, not the Iraq siencitsts.

It's people like you that believe everthing your told and never think for yourself that are screwing up this planet. Use that thing on your neck for something other than crushing beer cans. If you want to take on the world, fine, go and get killed, see if I care. In the mean time I'm gonna learn Japanese and hopefully move there. I'ld rather be alone and homeless in Japan than to live on stolen land surounded by foolish people. You should change your name to souless man.

Am I a butterfly dreaming I'm a man?
Or a bowling ball dreaming I'm a plate of samishi?
Never assume that what you see or feel is real.
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
D Man
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 3rd Oct 2002
Location: Germany
Posted: 29th Jan 2003 22:05
Link
Puhh...
At least ONE american thinks about his country without this fuckin' patriotism and his pre-judges.
I would sign what Arrow said!

"If you can't make it good
make it look good."
Bill Gates
Back to top
Profile PM Email
D Man
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 3rd Oct 2002
Location: Germany
Posted: 29th Jan 2003 22:24
Link
btw. What are five years of war(if it was true which it wasn't) against...let me count...58 years of...well, lets call it pain.
Yes there are still consequences of the drop.
There are still dying people because of this drop.
But...its no problem...these are only inferior asian people not the master race of the americans...is it that what you wanted to say, SoulMan?
With your argumentation I could also justify the 2.Worldwar started by my country.

"If you can't make it good
make it look good."
Bill Gates
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Ole Sparky
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 6th Dec 2002
Location: United States
Posted: 30th Jan 2003 02:19
Link
Note: All phrases with a after them are sarcastic ones.

"there was still 2 years of war after you dropped the bomb!"

-World War II lasted from September 1st, 1939 to September 2nd, 1945 (May 9th in Europe). We dropped the bombs in August 1945, and so if there had been 2 MORE YEARS of fighting after we had dropped the bomb, WWII in the Pacific would have ended in 1947.

Guess that the length of the war everyone has been talking about just escaped your notice. Did you remember to check up on your history, Raven?

Of course, America is just distorting and twisting the facts, and has managed to do so in all the other nations' history books.

---

-Also, over 2,000 people died at Pearl Harbor, not 300.

**********

-If we had invaded Japan and lost a million AMERICAN (not British) soldiers, that's more then five times as many lives lost as the 150,000 (approximately) killed in the atom bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

But since American GIs' lives are only worth about one-tenth that of a Japanese civilians', we're to blame, aren't we?

*********

-If America hadn't gotten into World War II, and the Soviet Union HAD somehow managed to invade Germany, all of continental Europe would have been in the Soviets' control, and England would have been next. Britain was in bad enough shape even AFTER helping to win WWII that there is no way you could have invaded Germany/Soviet-Occupied Europe before or after that alternate WWII (note that I'm not country bashing, I'm stating FACTS). Needless (hopefully) to say, if America hadn't fought the Japanese in the Pacific, Japan would control virtually all of the Pacific, except maybe Australia and New Zealand.

Except that that would have been what America wanted, becasue then we could use England as a puppet state in a war against the USSR.

**********

"If you truely believe your the most powerful nation then look again at the world ... the UK could take you down without a fight, your whole defense technologies were developed over here by BAe
Our Air and Naval superiority is second to none, using combined technology from the States, UK and EU"

-Here's what I've got to say in response to THAT:

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

HA!

**********

"Churchil could've quite easily pulled our guys back from the front as the Yanks arrived and you could've literally taken credit for "winning" the war as it was.
The champage was already open for us - you just became the sheild for a while."

-In early 1942, the British had ONE front - Africa. You had not landed in Europe ANYWHERE, and the battle in Africa was a deadlock.

Of course, you British had a massive attack planned for 1943 using all of your imaginary friend soliders to invade Normandy, but us Yanks ruined it, eh?

**********

"But then again any weaponry created with the UK oftenly get an accurate prediction ... like the SCUDD missiles, they only had projection tests before being sold to the States and UN - but what was predicted from the small tests run showed a very accurate chart."

-If you're saying that the UK created the SCUD missile and sold it to the US and UN, you = stupid. The Soviet Union created the SCUD missile and it wound up in the hands of other nations. Also, the SCUD was essentially a V2 with a big warhead.

Oh, never mind, I forgot that it was America who created the SCUD missile and gave them away to every dictatorship in the world!

**********

"they [America] send British (occasionally thier own) Troops into a country to cause some aggrovation."

-Again with the Britain being a sovreign country and the being able to do whatever you want and the US not being able to order your troops around... *sigh* Guess some people just can't understand certain things.

**********

I'm so proud of myself! I managed to write an entire post without any country-bashing!

-Ya know how much I hate 'Stack Overload Error's?-
Thhhhhhhhhhhiiiiiiiisssssssssssss muuuuuuuuccchhh!
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Arrow
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 1st Jan 2003
Location: United States
Posted: 30th Jan 2003 03:33
Link
Umm, just one thing ElectroJako45:

-If we had invaded Japan and lost a million AMERICAN (not British) soldiers, that's more then five times as many lives lost as the 150,000 (approximately) killed in the atom bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Read a history book, the two nuclear bombings of Japan cuase over a million civalian deaths plus the countless deaths due to radioation poisining. After that Russia saw that power and they started Nuclear programs, as did China. Becuase of that the cold war started, and Russia and the US satarted to fight by use of the middle eastern countries, causing more death. Due to the US backing out of those countries without leaving the aid they said they would, they begain to start anti US groups. These became terreoist orgainations which have lead to millions of Deaths around the world. After the USSR colapsted, nuclear technogy was sold to the highest bidder, thus certain organiztions now have the power to cuase more death a destroction. Back to those terrorists, one such group desided to fly two plains into our towers, causing more death. That caused more hate and more killing, and now insentsotive jerks are turning into a video game, which some people (most certainly not me) think caused the Colombined school shootings.

Now, ElectroJako45, tell me if those two bombs were worth all the pain, death, and hate that we now have today.

Oh, and thank for making us have to scroll left and right to read these post.

Am I a butterfly dreaming I'm a man?
Or a bowling ball dreaming I'm a plate of samishi?
Never assume that what you see or feel is real.
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Ole Sparky
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 6th Dec 2002
Location: United States
Posted: 30th Jan 2003 04:36
Link
Sorry, I didn't know that the HAHAHAHAHA... would come out like that, and there's no edit feature in this forum.

The Soviets/Russians would've found out about the two bombs anyway, as well as the Chinese. And I didn't know that the total death toll of Hiroshima and Nagasaki was so high; I was referring to the about 80,000 people initially killed in the bombings.

9/11/01... Americans will never forget.
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Shadow Robert
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 22nd Sep 2002
Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 30th Jan 2003 06:52 Edited at: 17th Apr 2003 05:07
Link
[edit-]//

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Draez
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 1st Nov 2002
Location:
Posted: 30th Jan 2003 07:33
Link
Raven:
Don't call me an idiot. You don't even know me which just goes to show that you will say anything without thinking about what you are saying. Go look up some more facts on the internet and come back and spew all you like. It doesn't make a world of difference. To me you are the hate monger on this thread. You are doing exactly what you hate America for doing and let's not even get into you generallizing an entire nation. Oh, and if you *did* bother to check the news not everyone wants a war here in the states. Last poll after the state of the union which was last night showed that it's almost a 50/50 split with most saying we should still wait for a joint UN strike instead of going it alone.

To me you sound like a bitter, bitter person and/or child.

You seem to think that war is something of a fairy tale where everyone plays fair which is so stupid (if i may borrow your intelligent verbism) as to assume that the other side would not play every favorable hand it's dealt.

Another thing, where do you get off telling me that I would hate it if I found out that another country won the war instead of us? What do I care of which country won the war.. all I care is that it was over and we all still have our freedom. I don't really give two cents of who won it for whom.
"Don't sit back and think that killing over 6million civilians will in anyway shape or form be forgiven by those akin to me ... and i'm not saying that to ALL americans. Just those like YOU"
See, it's comments like this that ruin anything you have to say. those like me? like who? what are you talking about? do you even know who I am? how can anyone make a statement like that online. do you know me? i dont recall meeting you. so if i don't know you and you don't know me what the heck are you talking about? the minute you make it a personal attack you lose all credibility.

Churchill had the war won? Are you friggin insane? Holy hell, what are you talking about? If the states did not step in you would be talking German right now pal, all of you. Try to remember that.

Back to top
Profile PM
Ole Sparky
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 6th Dec 2002
Location: United States
Posted: 30th Jan 2003 14:28
Link
"Also if i were you i'd check your dates here ...
First America bomb Japan as a retaliation for Perl Harbour was right after, yet now your saying that the invasion of Normandy was in '43 (meaning that Perl Harbour would've had to have been brought in before that) ... yet the bomb went off in '45"

-You just don't bother to really read a damn thing I say, do you Raven? The comment about you guys having a plan to invade Normandy in 1943 was SARCASM. ?Comprehende SARCASM?

Facts:
*Pearl Harbor was bombed on December 7th, 1941, to destroy the Pacific fleet. If the fleet had been in Los Angeles, they would have attacked there, regardless of the civilian casualties.

*Normandy was invaded on June 6th, 1944 by a JOINT force of British, AMERICANS, and Canadians (and maybe some French, I don't know).

*The A-Bomb was dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki in August 1945, to end World War II becasue there was no other way the Japanese would surrender, and we figured that the Soviets would find Germany's work on atomic devices and build their own bomb (so yes, the bomb dropped also to scare the USSR a little).

Check your own damn facts before you tell me to check on mine, Raven.

9/11/01... Americans will never forget.
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Arrow
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 1st Jan 2003
Location: United States
Posted: 30th Jan 2003 20:14
Link
Ok, Draez, we don't know you, the only way can know you is be your post, and by your posts, I can clearly see that your a simple-minded, easily lead toady.


Another thing, where do you get off telling me that I would hate it if I found out that another country won the war instead of us? What do I care of which country won the war.. all I care is that it was over and we all still have our freedom.

Our freedom? I can't help but laugh at that one. The last time we were in a war that challanged our freedom was the war of 1812. If you'ld read a history book (an non American one) you'ld know that niether Japan or Germany want to take over the US. Hitler had ever offord a treity with the US. As for Japan, talks with the US were failing, so the withdrew there ambasitor, declared war, and atttack Pearl Harbor. The US knew of the attack 6 hours before it happand, if 3 of our ships hadn't been out, we wounldn't have been abill to start the Pasific front for another 2 years.

You seem to think that war is something of a fairy tale where everyone plays fair which is so stupid (if i may borrow your intelligent verbism) as to assume that the other side would not play every favorable hand it's dealt.

Your kidding me right? The other side not playing fair? WAKE UP!!! Lets look at the odds here, 100,000 groung troops to about 10,000, longrange bombs and rockets to 16 empty warheads, more plains, trains, and automoblies than you can shake a stick at vs. Saddams limo, yeah that real fair, asshole.

All this talk about our freedom, what about the freedom of others? What about all the native Americans, hmm? You ack like this is the only country that has "freedom". Open your eyes, why are you so threated by the idea that this country isn't so great? Why do you have to attack a minority (something America does far too much)? Why can't you just say "I take confidence in the fact that I'm not alone in my love of America", insted of attack those who have a difference in opinion. Grow up.

Oh and by the way Raven doesn't live in America, you twat.

Am I a butterfly dreaming I'm a man?
Or a bowling ball dreaming I'm a plate of samishi?
Never assume that what you see or feel is real.
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Shadow Robert
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 22nd Sep 2002
Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 30th Jan 2003 20:18 Edited at: 17th Apr 2003 05:07
Link
[edit-]//.

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Ole Sparky
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 6th Dec 2002
Location: United States
Posted: 30th Jan 2003 23:50
Link
Raven:

Ah, you know what conclusion I've come to? In your mind/eyes, the US can never ever ever ever be right. If we had "let the EU take care of our" revenge, you would say that we were ordering European troops around. If Iraq had far more power than us and we were doing the same thing we're doing now, you would say that we were just pestering a larger nation. If we weren't powerful at all, instead of calling us a "big macho nation", you would say that we're just a wittle itty bitty nation that needs to have its hand held while doing everything.

"somewhere safe where you could get them with impunity."

-That makes no sense.

"maybe the rest of you should wake up and learn from the past than repeat it."

-Assuming 'the rest of us' means people like Draex and me, that makes no sense either.

Raven, because of the fact that you don't know a damn thing about history and just have a bias against the United States for some reason that doesn't mean shit in the world view, I'm not going to even respond to your posts anymore.

As a matter of fact, my family and I had a chance to go to England this spring break, and we didn't go for various reasons. Thank god we didn't, because I wouldn't want to run into someone like you and wind up in a limey prison for murder...

**********

Arrow:

Unlike Raven's posts, yours have actually been coherent and appear to be well-thought out. In fact, there's just one thing about your last post that might be incorrect: If Germany wanted peace, then why did THEY declare war on US?

"Hitler had ever offord a treity with the US."

-Hitler also offered a peace treaty with the UK in late '39/early '40 and we all know what happened for the next five years after that. (And no, Raven it was not the total defeat and collapse of Nazi Germany, caused by the UK)

9/11/01... Americans will never forget.
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Back to top

Login to post a reply

Server time is: 2024-04-28 15:14:13
Your offset time is: 2024-04-28 15:14:13