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FPSC Classic Product Chat / V120 Public Beta 18 (RC)

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Scene Commander
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Posted: 9th Jan 2013 09:26
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Quote: "SC or Flatlander added any performance enhancements in beta 8 without calculating for the new syncrate system then this could cause wobble"


No performance changes, and I'm not seeing the wobble, although I never was. I'll see if I can track this down, I had considered it fixed.. Silly me.
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rolfy
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Posted: 9th Jan 2013 10:18 Edited at: 9th Jan 2013 11:20
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For those having transparency issues, if your entity's transparency setting is 2 the transparent areas will not show up when you right click to view in the editor (the normals seem to get flipped as well which makes it difficult to place foliage etc), I would think they should show up as black when placing in the grid though, unless the transparent texture were .png which might prevent them showing up at all in either view, haven't checked to see..

If you right click the offending entity change transparency to 0 and accept, when you right click again you should now see it.
If you really need to use this setting you can always set it back again after you get it where you want it.

As for transparent segments not showing when placed in the grid I suspect the textures are not .dds and you could use a colour instead of black so they show up better.

SC gave us the transparency settings a few posts back.
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=197293&b=21&msg=2422581#m2422581
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Scurvy Lobster
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Posted: 9th Jan 2013 11:35 Edited at: 9th Jan 2013 11:35
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I checked the Egyptian invisible room segment and it uses a grey .dds texture.
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rolfy
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Posted: 9th Jan 2013 11:51
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Quote: "I checked the Egyptian invisible room segment and it uses a grey .dds texture. "

Check the transparency settings in the .fps segment file.


I still have the wobble effect, sorry s4

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Scurvy Lobster
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Posted: 9th Jan 2013 13:18 Edited at: 9th Jan 2013 13:18
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Here is a print of the .fps file. I see there is a transparency0 = 0 but I am unsure of what to aim for here.

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BlackFox
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Posted: 9th Jan 2013 15:38
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Quote: "The Egyptian MP8 Bonus invisible wall and floor segments aren't shown when placed in the editor (like they once were). They work fine ingame however. "


Why not do what we did in that pack? We changed the invisible floor/wall from the pack into an entity. This way we can see it in the editor.


There's no problem that can't be solved without applying a little scripting.
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Snake675
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Posted: 9th Jan 2013 16:31
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Hi

I want to mention a strange behaviour of character entities. I dont know wether this is a bug or not... It happened with V120 Public Beta 6 and now i updated to Beta 8. Here are my system specs:
i5 2.8 GHz
64bit
4G ram
W7 home sp1
geforce gts 250
FPSC 120 Beta 8

The test level (nothing special):
"outdoor" with grass floor
2 thug characters, one appears directly, one is triggered by a zone

What happens (see video):
The right thug sticks in the floor and shines brightly (no shader?)
the left thug appears when triggered but he has a rocket in his butt :o - and suddendly shaders are working
he lands when you get closer, maybee within 1000q

the video is in the attachement.

PS: Help would be very nice, this is a showstopper for snipers

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ncmako
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Posted: 9th Jan 2013 17:14
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@Flatlander
Had a chance to test your lift fpm's. ww2 fpm's work fine. lift1_scifi.fpm & lift2_scifi.fpm cant get off at "Top" of lift.
Top only, bottom works fine.
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Flatlander
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Posted: 9th Jan 2013 17:32
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@ncmako,


First, have to verify if you are using beta 8B?

Here are the lift scripts I'm using for SciFi (download button). See if these makes any difference. It might be possible that my scripts that fixed getting off the top didn't make it in the beta.

THEORY - you know everything but nothing works. PRACTICE - when everything works but don't know why. For me, theory and practice are combined: nothing works and I don't know why.

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ncmako
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Posted: 9th Jan 2013 19:39 Edited at: 9th Jan 2013 20:08
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@Flatlander
Yes, definitely running beta8B. These updated scripts work great.
I noticed the slight difference on two lines, but these are the ones to keep and use. Thank You

Also, sadly I tried to implement new "plrcurrentweapon",
but only the partial weapon path works as before. Numbered slot & gun name drag down performance. So I'm guessing it's my script
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Flatlander
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Posted: 9th Jan 2013 20:02 Edited at: 9th Jan 2013 21:13
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@ncmako,

Thank you for testing the scripts. Apparently, my updated scripts for SciFi didn't make beta 8B. I'll see if I can't get Lee to them next time and to see if he will include the maps as well.

Addendum:

@ncmako, the new code for plrcurrentweapon is not implemented in beta8B. It will be for beta 9. Sorry.

The main difference for the SciFi scripts is checking the raycast values when the lift moves to the top. Before, it was stopping too soon and therefore there is a collision problem when getting off and of course you can't use jump to jump up to the floor. So, I tweaked it so that the platform will move up a little bit more and stopped at a higher position. It may seem odd since the number is smaller but the raycast is looking for the ceiling or top of the lift.

THEORY - you know everything but nothing works. PRACTICE - when everything works but don't know why. For me, theory and practice are combined: nothing works and I don't know why.
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4125
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Posted: 9th Jan 2013 23:11 Edited at: 9th Jan 2013 23:16
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Quote: "Why not do what we did in that pack? We changed the invisible floor/wall from the pack into an entity. This way we can see it in the editor."


How would you go about doing this ? Also, this doesn't change the fact that invisible segments do not appear in the map editor at all now. Wouldn't using the invisible entities give a performance drop or even use more memory while building vs using them as segments ?

Intel Core i5 3570, Nvidia Gefocre GTX 560 OC 1024MB, 16GB RAM, P8H77-M Pro, Windows 7 Home Premium x64
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Nathan38
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Posted: 10th Jan 2013 00:01
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Ever since the latest update, is anyone else having issues getting full screen shaders to work? I can't enable them anymore, unless i'm doing something wrong?
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BlackFox
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Posted: 10th Jan 2013 00:13
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Quote: "How would you go about doing this ? Also, this doesn't change the fact that invisible segments do not appear in the map editor at all now. Wouldn't using the invisible entities give a performance drop or even use more memory while building vs using them as segments ?"


If you are using the "invisible wall/floor" segment to "enclose" and area, then I can see where the need to see it in the editor. We've done the same thing- placed the segment version and can't see it. This problem existed well back in v1.13 onward. It would be nice to have the "invisible" segment shown in the editor as it is if made into an entity.

The reason I like the entity version is because I can make it dynamic and have the invisible wall "spawn" when the player reaches a point in the game so they can't go back and get lost. I also can rotate it and position it into a floor piece if needed.

It may not be the best solution, but unless the team are willing to look into why the segment version of the invisible wall/floor are not visible compared to the entity version in the editor, we have to make do with what we have. I agree it would be a benefit and time saver to find a solution. For ourselves, we noticed times where using the entity version was better than the segment, and other times the segment better than the entity.

I've attached an entity version of the invisible wall if you want to use it.


There's no problem that can't be solved without applying a little scripting.

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4125
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Posted: 10th Jan 2013 00:20
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Thanks BlackFox for the entity.

Quote: "If you are using the "invisible wall/floor" segment to "enclose" and area, then I can see where the need to see it in the editor. "


That's exactly what I'm doing. So I think it calls for a fix.

Intel Core i5 3570, Nvidia Gefocre GTX 560 OC 1024MB, 16GB RAM, P8H77-M Pro, Windows 7 Home Premium x64
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BlackFox
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Posted: 10th Jan 2013 00:25 Edited at: 10th Jan 2013 10:29
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Quote: "Thanks BlackFox for the entity."


I know it is not the best solution, but you are welcome.

Quote: "That's exactly what I'm doing. So I think it calls for a fix."


I agree. Perhaps Scene Commander can explain why the segment versions of invisible wall/floor do not appear, but when you make into an entity they are visible when placed in the editor? I'm using the same texture, same mesh- just one is an entity and one is a segment.


There's no problem that can't be solved without applying a little scripting.
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ncmako
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Posted: 10th Jan 2013 06:30
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@Nathan38
Quote: "is anyone else having issues getting full screen shaders to work"

Nope,all works fine. Maybe check your "postprocessing" setting?
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Scene Commander
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Posted: 10th Jan 2013 08:25 Edited at: 10th Jan 2013 08:35
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Hi all,

Ok, still trying to find a stable fix for the dreaded "bobble head" effect. As, to date, none of the fixes have worked for all users.

The good news is I've been able to replicate the effect, so that's a start.

I've attached another alpha build, let's call it V20.9 Alpha 2.

This build has reduced the effect for me to an acceptable level in my eyes, however, I'm going to need you guys to tell me if it's okay for you. I'm sure, with some testing we'll get there.

SC

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Scurvy Lobster
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Posted: 10th Jan 2013 08:54 Edited at: 10th Jan 2013 10:35
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I get the wobble bobble effect with the new alpha 2.

The most stable for me was beta 7 with the alpha fix. I believe the wobble was completely gone there.
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Corno_1
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Posted: 10th Jan 2013 10:32
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I did not see any bobble head. Maybe flatlanders version help.
If I have the permission I would upload it.
Also this version (FPSC-Game.exe) is 4MB smaller than the beta8B, not knowing why.

Corno_1


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Scene Commander
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Posted: 10th Jan 2013 10:41 Edited at: 10th Jan 2013 10:47
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Quote: "Maybe flatlanders version help."


Flatlander has made no changes that will affect the bobble head issue. Although people are trying to help, uploading of non official versions are making it hard for me to track bugs (S4real accepted, who keeps me in the loop) - besides you've just stated that the issue is fixed for you, so are you saying it works in the alpha I posted or in Flatlanders private build?

Quote: "Also this version (FPSC-Game.exe) is 4MB smaller than the beta8B, not knowing why."


Files change size often as code is added and substracted.

*Edit*

Uploaded alpha 3, which has eliminated the bobble issue for me. Can anyone confirm?


SC

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HarryWever
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Posted: 10th Jan 2013 11:21
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Hello,

I have a question, about collision
All my enemy characters can go trough the corner of a building.
I used nightcitypack, and changed all buildings to collision mode 2, but still the same problem.back to collison mode 1, used the cleaner but still they can walk trough a corner of a building

Am i doing something wrong?

Many thanks.

Harry
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rolfy
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Posted: 10th Jan 2013 12:23
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Quote: "Uploaded alpha 3, which has eliminated the bobble issue for me. Can anyone confirm?"

Its still there for me but a lot less pronounced, definitely not as bad.
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s4real
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Posted: 10th Jan 2013 12:32
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I think we need to understand what the bobble effect you people are getting the code is designed to have a slight bounce effect after jumping or if you get close to a wall.

THis has been added to give more realistic effect while walking and jumping, I was just wondering if people are seeing this as a bug when in fact its not.

Maybe some people want it like it used to be where it didn't have the bounce effect.

Rolfy can you upload a vid and tell me what segments you using that given you the wobble.

best s4real

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rolfy
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Posted: 10th Jan 2013 12:52 Edited at: 10th Jan 2013 12:57
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As MK83's vid showed the wobble was pretty much happening everywhere and not where you would expect if jumping etc, though I noticed it more when approaching corners using stock floor segments (no wall).
It wasn't actually as bad for me as MK83.

I am using custom segment and entity terrain and its fine on the segments which have a very gradual slope its far more noticeable on the entity terrain, particularly when walking uphill, I also notice it more when I am among any foliage (dynamic entity with no collision) or nearby a static entity.

Having said this its not anywhere near as bad as it was and I did think of it being exactly as you describe it as more realistic effect while walking and jumping but it seems to appear for me when it shouldn't.
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starmind 001
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Posted: 10th Jan 2013 14:38 Edited at: 10th Jan 2013 14:50
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I can confirm Rolfy's wobble. The wobble seems better, but going up and down the stock stairs and slopes you get a nice jitter. I think what is going on is on slopes the physics is causing a slipping effect. The glide is gone.

I am fine with the fact that if I am jumping there is a realism of a bounce, but if I want to walk, run and shoot, I don't want the realism. If I want realism I will re-enlist but even so realism does not have a bounce when walking up and down a slope or stairs. I definitely do not slide down them unless there is ice.

I made a video of the collision issues. You say do not walk into a wall it causes a collision problem, well, I have been playing alot of games this week, mainly COD, Assassin's Creed and a few others and all of those when you walk into a wall they stop, the cameras do not bounce all around. In fact none of them even showed any movement. COD show a smooth camera with the exceptions of the explosions that caused the camshake. Also no slipping.


Please go back and fix the slipping. I think that will help alot. I did notice that there was no slipping while crouching. Maybe start there, but who am I say what is good or not. I am just a simple gamer.

Ok my video would load in the forum so had to upload to youtube.


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ncmako
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Posted: 10th Jan 2013 15:46
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@Scene Commander
Sorry for late response,but I tried out both s4real's-"beta 9 alpha 1 test" and your "alpha 3".
The beta9 alpha 1 from s4real was rock solid, no bounce at all.
Just tested your Alpha 3,from what I see it is solid also. No wobble!
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Flatlander
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Posted: 10th Jan 2013 17:24 Edited at: 10th Jan 2013 17:25
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Although we really shouldn't compare the tools that the makers of COD uses with FPSC, but I would agree with Starmind in the sense of, "Why try to make the player have a natural or realistic gate (step) in his/her walk?" Trying to adjust the camera wobble to do this seems to be causing issues not worth trying to fix.

The extra bobble of the player that some people might see will probably not be seen in a built game on another machine. However, vice versa would be true. I may not see it on my machine but someone who is using a computer with different specs will probably see it in a built game. So, why have player bobble adjustment at all is my question.

I may be totally in left field with this and I'm not the one to make any decisions. It is just my humble opinion.

THEORY - you know everything but nothing works. PRACTICE - when everything works but don't know why. For me, theory and practice are combined: nothing works and I don't know why.
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s4real
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Posted: 10th Jan 2013 17:29
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@starmind 001 :- Thanks for the video it shows whats going on more.



best s4real

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MK83
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Posted: 10th Jan 2013 21:38 Edited at: 10th Jan 2013 21:40
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here's the results of alpha 3, Notice the notice the entity logic line is maxed out in the second vid. and the frame rate is alot lower than the first vid. But the wobble is gone! Just sliding on the stairs.
http://youtu.be/ItiOedsY94A


http://youtu.be/DFkpQcKE66U

mk83 Productions
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s4real
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Posted: 10th Jan 2013 22:05
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@MK83 :- Thanks for the videos im working on some ideas at the moment to fix the problem.

best s4real

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MK83
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Posted: 10th Jan 2013 22:15
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@s4real: cool, thanks.

mk83 Productions
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Scurvy Lobster
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Posted: 11th Jan 2013 09:29
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Alpha 3 has no unwanted wobble for me. I see a small movement up/down for the player when walking but that is acceptable.
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Scene Commander
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Posted: 11th Jan 2013 09:33
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@all.

I've posted the code that has reduced the wobble to google code. I (and S4 I'm sure), will keep playing around to see if it can be improved further, but currently I'm happy that this is fixed, unless anyone wants to tell me it's not

SC
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s4real
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Posted: 11th Jan 2013 15:46
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@Scene Commander :- I now have a map that does the wobble and I'm still getting the wobble with your new fix but not as bad, I'm thinking the wobble code is ok and its something to do with the collision because it only happen to me on stairs.

I'm looking into it further but you fix has improved it loads.

best s4real

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Scene Commander
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Posted: 11th Jan 2013 16:05
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@S4.. I hadn't tested stairs... I'll check it out. I'm sure we'll work something out!
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Flatlander
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Posted: 11th Jan 2013 19:21 Edited at: 11th Jan 2013 19:22
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Scene Commander, First of all I'm not sure how you duplicated this wobble/bobble issue unless you found a computer that has this problem.

I certainly have never had the problem. I updated my mod with r478. I used the terrorstrike map that has stairs and I still have no problems with the bobble. However, I am glad to report the player weight fix has now prevented the sliding which I always had and which if I had to would do a work-around or just ignored it. It's good to see it is probably fixed.

I'll let you know, of course, if any of the fixes ever breaks what is already working for me. It probably shouldn't but you never know.

THEORY - you know everything but nothing works. PRACTICE - when everything works but don't know why. For me, theory and practice are combined: nothing works and I don't know why.
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Scene Commander
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Posted: 11th Jan 2013 19:55
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Quote: "First of all I'm not sure how you duplicated this wobble/bobble issue unless you found a computer that has this problem. "


Tested it on my laptop, which suffered from the problem.

@All

S4real has sent me some further tweaks which he believes has fixed the 'bobble' issue completely. I've not had a chance to test yet, but all being well, I'll upload another alpha either later tonight or tomorrow.

SC
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BlackFox
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Posted: 11th Jan 2013 20:09
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I've never suffered from the player wobble/bobble issue. If I did, it was either due to lack of caffeine or the cold medication.

I do have a question regarding the "r744" release.

Quote: "
Removed some old debug code, applied memory consumption ideas suggested by S4real - savings of around 14% in tests.
"


Now I realize that we still work in v1.17 and my questions may not be relevant, but we do run v1.20 in a VM. We also do port some code from the current source into our own v1.17 source for fixes/tweaks. I took this r744 and compiled for our v1.20, then rebuild two outdoor levels we have in our v1.17 development. We did not see any 14% savings during tests. I ported the r744 changes into our v1.17 source and still saw no 14% savings during tests. Each test remained the same size in memory.

Could s4real possible explain what the savings should accomplish? What were the settings on the system that gain this saving (i.e. setup.ini settings- lightmaptexsize, lightmapquality).


There's no problem that can't be solved without applying a little scripting.
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Flatlander
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Posted: 11th Jan 2013 20:33
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Quote: "I've never suffered from the player wobble/bobble issue. If I did, it was either due to lack of caffeine or the cold medication."


:LOL:

I'll let s4real or Scene answer that one this time.

THEORY - you know everything but nothing works. PRACTICE - when everything works but don't know why. For me, theory and practice are combined: nothing works and I don't know why.
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Scene Commander
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Posted: 11th Jan 2013 20:34
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@Blackfox.

This is my mistake, I uploaded the wrong code, try a later build. Also the 14% really depends on the complexity of the level.

SC
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BlackFox
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Posted: 11th Jan 2013 20:38 Edited at: 11th Jan 2013 20:39
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Quote: "Also the 14% really depends on the complexity of the level."


I am not trying to sound like a jerk, but I'm afraid you need to be a bit more detailed on the term "complexity of the level". We are not building/using "simple" levels ourselves. These are fully populated outdoor levels for our Egyptian game development. Are these savings to do with level construction/memory used, does it relate to lighting, or dynamic/static entities used? How I hold my tongue to one side?


There's no problem that can't be solved without applying a little scripting.
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Scene Commander
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Posted: 11th Jan 2013 20:42 Edited at: 11th Jan 2013 20:46
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@Blackfox,

I'll email you.

*DONE*

SC
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A dude
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Posted: 12th Jan 2013 02:56
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Is it just me or are the ragdoll destroy scripts not included with the latest update?

Don't waste your life
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starmind 001
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Posted: 12th Jan 2013 04:21
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I think I have another problem. The decal particles have no speed adjustment. I see the is a lifetime adj., but no speed adj. I realize that some think that adjusting the lifetime is the speed control, but only allows the particle system so long before it just disappears and has to be reactivated. Is there any way to fix this? if I want a waterfall it works just fine. If I want fog or smoke it works fine, but if I want snow or in my case leaves falling it doesn't work. I know some will say as I have read many post about the same question and the same anwser comes up. Rolfy's weather system is the only solution. In this case that is not going to work. If I look at a tree from a distance I want to see leaves falling and when I am close I want to feel like it is doing just the same.

Now I can animate leaves falling like Rofly did with one of his trees, but we have a particle system now, should we be able to use it properly. I think that this fits into the stablity criteria as it is not stable to me. I never to notice til I wanted to use it.

For my setting I used just linear motion y = -1000. Also notice that the with the new update when starting and restarting fpsc and cleaning dbo's the decal particle setting will not reset new. It keeps the last settings it used, so trying to reset a bad idea no longer works.

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Scene Commander
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Posted: 12th Jan 2013 10:04
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Quote: "Is it just me or are the ragdoll destroy scripts not included with the latest update?"


As far as I'm aware the ragdoll scripts were never included due to a ratings issue.

Quote: "For my setting I used just linear motion y = -1000"


Unless I've misunderstood your question, surely this is what you wanted?

@All - V120 Alpha 4. - Fixes for 'walking' wooble and decal flickering.

Let me know how this works for you... and of course any final issues and providing all is good, I'll let Lee know that we're ready for a final run.

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Flatlander
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Posted: 12th Jan 2013 19:18 Edited at: 12th Jan 2013 21:20
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The one thing that was still not working was the decals that blinked going off and on when the frame rates were high. I'm happy to say that it is fixed. When the frame rate was 460 (all I had was ground and the Teleporter IN) the transporter decal was steady. Yay.

I thought with the new releases I would check my lift scripts one last time and they are still working. I hope they get into the final beta and official release as the "working" SciFi scripts didn't make it into beta 8b.

Thanks Scene Commander for putting up with all of us and the good work you have done. Also huge kudos to s4real for the fixes with the bobble. That took some ingenious thinking as far as the physics goes. That last bit of wizardry was amazing. I have always had trouble with the logic of including a Boolean value in formulas.

EDIT: correction of s4real's forum name. My fingers sometimes move before my brain can think.

THEORY - you know everything but nothing works. PRACTICE - when everything works but don't know why. For me, theory and practice are combined: nothing works and I don't know why.
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s4real
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Posted: 12th Jan 2013 19:43
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@ all :-

Please test the alpha posted by scene to see if there any more issues, I think scene getting ready to release this as a final so if you have any problems then speak up now and we look into it.

Thanks flatlander.

Best s4real

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MK83
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Posted: 12th Jan 2013 19:44
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here's a vid of alpha 4, no wobble, but, the sliding on the stairs is still there. notice the entitylogic bar, it is not exactly maxed out this time and the fps is better this time, almost there I think.

http://youtu.be/uWuh1SNlkZM

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Posted: 12th Jan 2013 20:50
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@MK83

Specs please as I'm not seeing this.

@All,

S4real is correct.. We are hoping to bring this to a stable close. I'm sure there are still a couple of minor issues that haven't been spotted, so if anyone out there is hiding something, please let me know...

I'd also like to say thanks again to S4real and Flatlander, who have been a great help in so many respects, and also thanks to all you others for bearing with the process while we sorted out all the reported bugs.

SC
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