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FPSC Classic Product Chat / V120 Public Beta 18 (RC)

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Marc Steene
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Posted: 1st Jun 2012 18:25 Edited at: 1st Jun 2012 19:25
Quote: "I thought you were meant to use "nobulletcol=0" to turn it back on?
See if that works."


Doesn't work :/

EDIT: SC, this is with v1.19 and not the 1.20 BETA.


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michael x
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Posted: 1st Jun 2012 22:08
clearly the memory cap is the cause of a lot of issues. meaning pushing so hard to save memory and gaining the lack sounds and other type of problems is not worth trying to compress. I agree that using the 4gb patch can limited you on what pc can your game can play. but we are paying a price for better graphic and more effects and better level design. 64bit is the future of gaming and other software. we all must face the facts upgrading is a must. that is what we are doing to fpsc. the more we put into it the more performance and memory it will need. but no one has to agree with this or like what im saying its just the way i see things.

more than what meets the eye

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Marc Steene
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Posted: 1st Jun 2012 22:33
Quote: "is not worth trying to compress."


Why would you not want the memory consumption to be reduced in a game? SC will work these bugs out in due time.


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michael x
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2012 00:47
if we want to save on memory lets set the texture quality on low. but the game texture would look like crap. the same go for anything we would try to compress like sound. we are trying to make great quality for that we will most likely have to sacrifice the memory to get that. we do the same with the performance with all the extra effects.

but the 2gb memory cap has always been a problem and will always be a problem. it does not matter what version of fpsc but even with the old versions this problem prolong. but back in those times fpcs never had so many model packs so the old fpsc games did not use as much entities as they do today. level design for fpsc has been upgraded to look more better. with all these entities on your level alone can take a large amount of memory. we as developers have came a long way with this software and upgraded our skills to make better looking games but in the end something has to be sacrifice in the development.

you can not run COD on any pc and thats the sacrifice they made with that game. so its either upgrade or dont play it. 3d games are not like 2d games. they are not meant to be played on weak computers. its not just the memory that make this rule but shaders effects ,performance, sound and ai. it all need more. that why today computers are getting faster and more memory. to allow us to have less or no limitations.

more than what meets the eye

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Mr Smith
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2012 07:22
Why don't we all work together to make a better FPSC?

Mr.S is here, he would like to speak to you.
Thraxas
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2012 07:38
Quote: "but the 2gb memory cap has always been a problem and will always be a problem. "


Yes but let's not forget that this particular problem is caused because of support for 32bit operating systems and is not a fault with FPSC itself.

http://thraxocorp.webs.com/ Visit my totally awesome website: Thraxocorp. It's my own company and I'm totes the CEO.
Marc Steene
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2012 10:13
Quote: "but the 2gb memory cap has always been a problem and will always be a problem."


And that's what SC is trying to do - make it less of a problem without compromising on quality, which so far he's been very successful in doing.


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Ertlov
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2012 13:45
The memory cap is a pain in the A, I told that in this and many other threads. But it can be outgunned by creating 2-3 small levels (one big main room / corridor and 4-5 attached rooms) for every big one.

Come to where the madness is:http://www.homegrowngames.at
Doomster
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2012 14:33 Edited at: 2nd Jun 2012 14:36
Making FPSC 64-Bit wouldn't be much of an help anyway, since the underlying problems are still present and while the memory consumption perhaps wouldn't be that much of a problem anymore, most likely the engine would break down, since it can't really handle all that much details in the maps, combined with bigger maps.

The biggest problem with FPSC is: it uses outdated technology (and that isn't much optimized either, as it seems).

FPSC still saves every static mesh into the same universe file and loads that at once into memory, instead of breaking it up into multiple parts (like Source Engine for example), or streaming the data (like every modern engine out there).

Thus, the whole level is constantly in the memory; every object, every texture, same goes for sounds,... just makes sense, that the memory consumption is so high, compared to any other game.

Now saying: We won't change any of that, we'll just switch the engine to 64-bit and leave everyone with 32-bit "alone", rendering the engine unusuable for them and shrinking our possible customer base, is really the worst decision in my opinion.

Just look at other games out there, perfect example: Skyrim.

All those games still use DirectX9 and run under 32-bit, 64-bit exclusive games / engines aren't really a thing right now - so why should FPSC do it?

...so, personally, optimizing FPSC as much as possible with the current engine and it's limitations (DX9, 32-bit), is at least for me, the best decision that could've been made - bigger customer base for TGC and everyone that may want to sell their games, less time to spend on rewriting DBP, the list goes on....

-Doomster

michael x
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2012 17:17 Edited at: 2nd Jun 2012 17:18
I agree with everyone opinion on this but if you 32bit has 4gb of ram it will still run on there. plus Im not trying to go over broad on the memory just to make a little bit more room. so cap at 3gb would do. it not easy to make a level that would use 4gb of memory. fpsc made not be able to handle such a large it drop the performance. but at this point i do not want SC to change the memory cap being we have that option with the patch. it not the a big deal but I do want the sound be put back the way it was. sound is not the problem of the memory it the more entities on the level as well characters weapons takes memory. there no easy way to beat the memory because the more feature and effects we put into fpsc the more memory it takes. it funny 118 use less memory compare to 119 and all he added was commands.

I own both 32bit and 64bit meaning I have two computers both are window 7. i test my level on both and on my friends computers.

more than what meets the eye

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GreenDixy
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2012 19:48
If fpsc goes to high tech for computers it will kill alot of the customers on this forum like manny we use lower pc's to build on so "customers" dont need to go spend a grand on a high end pc everyone seems to want bigger and better but not everyone can afford a new pc fpsc was geared more tawards lower ends and it should stay that way to keep the fpsc customers.

======================================
My software never has bugs. It just develops random features.
Marc Steene
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2012 20:04 Edited at: 2nd Jun 2012 20:05
Quote: "and it should stay that way to keep the fpsc customers."


Personally I think that's rubbish, Crytek didn't go and say "Oh, most people can't run our game, so we shouldn't make it look nice". FPSC should make graphical advances in the form of AA, AF, SSAO, dynamic shadows etc but allow these features to be enabled and disabled via the setup.ini file, and allow the engine to scale effectively depending on the different performance levels of the computer it's running. Holding it back for the lowest common denominator is unnecessary and only limits the people who have good enough system specs to actually run the game with decent graphical settings (this is the reason gaming graphics are being held back at the moment due to console hardware becoming outdated). The fact of the matter is, if you have an integrated graphics card, games are not going to run well, and that's life. When they bought that laptop, they should have known it didn't have an appropriate graphics card to run games and that's that.

Give us the graphics, but give us the options to choose what we want, that way those with high end machines will get stunning graphics, and those who have low end machines can run it smoothly.


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Dar13
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2012 20:17
Quote: "but if you 32bit has 4gb of ram it will still run on there. plus Im not trying to go over broad on the memory just to make a little bit more room. so cap at 3gb would do."

That's not correct. On 32-bit Windows, each process only has access to 2GB, even if there's 4+ GB available in RAM.

Quote: "Give us the graphics, but give us the options to choose what we want, that way those with high end machines will get stunning graphics, and those who have low end machines can run it smoothly."

The more extensibility you give the engine the less you can optimize. There has to be a balance. And if you really want AA, you can implement an FXAA fullscreen shader to get a good antialiasing effect(more information).

Quote: "it funny 118 use less memory compare to 119 and all he added was commands."

The entity logic system relies on large amounts of strings and other information where each script has to checked(if not run) each frame. I would imagine that for every command entered, there is an exponential increase in memory/CPU cost (albeit a low one, for one command isn't that big).

Red Eye
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2012 22:23
Quote: "The entity logic system relies on large amounts of strings and other information where each script has to checked(if not run) each frame. I would imagine that for every command entered, there is an exponential increase in memory/CPU cost (albeit a low one, for one command isn't that big)."


Yeah, and I wonder (assuming the list is enormous) if you sort all the commands in order of "commonly used" the performance increases. I would say yes, assuming its a case select loop and it returns upon found.

Cheers,

michael x
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2012 05:04
@Marc Steene i agree it should held back but I dont fpscx9 will see the light of day on being high end. look what happen to fpscx10 was the next level of fpsc. seeing that so many people could not run fpscx10 on here it was pointless to have it. so many people feel they should not have to upgrade there hardware for such a software. but I give it time tapes vhs and tv's. the old hardware will become pointless and the new will take over.

@Dar13 you maybe right on that and i maybe wrong that theory.as for the commands he added a list of them into fpsc 119. but did not make since to compress the sound in any way. I believe the more that is added to the source code it does something to fpsc to make it want to use more memory.

but as far the whole memory go's its not the biggest deal right now. i think this bug fix need to be fixing all the other bug problem from 119. trying to compress so much is over doing it right now. but most of this does not matter to because im sticking with 118 for right now. i have test out 119 and did not like how easy the bugs out with even looking for the problems. i wait to see how this 120 turn out i hope for the better. best of luck on 120.

more than what meets the eye

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Dar13
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2012 05:41
Quote: " you maybe right on that and i maybe wrong that theory."

I refer to this link and decide for yourself. The first table is the relevant one.

Quote: "but as far the whole memory go's its not the biggest deal right now."

I disagree. Why does FPSC use 1+GBs of memory to lightmap a single, somewhat detailed room? It boggles my mind.

Flatlander
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2012 06:37
Quote: "use 1+GBs of memory to lightmap a single, somewhat detailed room? It boggles my mind."


It's accumulative. I'm not going to go into detail. Believe me when I say that Scene Commander and Lee are discussing options but it's going to take some time to sort it.

"A programmer is just a tool which converts caffeine into code . . . reminds me….. if I had one more brain cell, I could have a synapse! woo hoo, Sparky!

~I'm the Terry of the Flatlands.
michael x
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2012 07:27
@Dar13 dont get wrong it a big deal that why we are talking about it. but fpsc has so many other problems that can be solve much quicker.

more than what meets the eye

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Marc Steene
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2012 09:10
Quote: "seeing that so many people could not run fpscx10 on here it was pointless to have it."


That was different, that was because FPSC X10 required Windows Vista and an X10 capable graphics card, not the level of graphics power actually required. We have most of X10s graphics features now, like water and post processing.

Quote: "but fpsc has so many other problems that can be solve much quicker."


Like what?


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Marc Steene
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2012 14:48 Edited at: 3rd Jun 2012 18:46
By the way Doomster, I sent you an email for some help with your launcher.

EDIT: Just found a bug. When pausing the game in v1.19, if you're offsetting the player camera, it continues to offset with that amount causing the camera to continue rising while the game is paused. I've attached a picture.

EDIT2: SC, would it be possible to make the nobulletcol action toggleable? I've got some characters which don't have the per polygon collision available, so when they die, you can't shoot past their corpses, so I added nobulletcol so you can shoot through the bodies. The issue is when these characters respawn, they will then be invulnerable as bullets will just pass through them and it is impossible to turn it back on.


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Scene Commander
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2012 20:03
Quote: " When pausing the game in v1.19, if you're offsetting the player camera, it continues to offset with that amount causing the camera to continue rising while the game is paused"


Sounds like a bug to me

Quote: "would it be possible to make the nobulletcol action toggleable?"


I'll look into this, it does sound like a good idea.
michael x
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Posted: 4th Jun 2012 00:11 Edited at: 4th Jun 2012 01:14
@Marc Steene well you just found one of them. fpscx10 was still the next level for fpsc. but even when windows 7 came out no one still over to fpscx10. with all the people on here who own windows 7 they still never use fpscx10. so the vista thing is not a excuse for lack of support. fpscx9 just became better because everyone here support it so much with the mods.

plus fpscx10 performance did not drop from using full shader like bloom. but like I side fpscx9 will stay where it is and if these bug become to big of a problem it will be down hill from here on out.

more than what meets the eye

Welcome to SciFi Summer
Billy33
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Posted: 4th Jun 2012 12:12
Hi,

I hadn't difficulty to compile v1.19 FPSC Source code, but with v1.20 beta 1, i found a problem around the different "enhancements dll's".

I installed and registered Enhancements Pack v4 (for ogg files).
After that, I had 2 new dlls (enhancements.dll, enhancementsOV.dll), plus the required enhancementsFREE.dll from Dbpro 7.5 extras
. When compiling v1.20 source code, Enhancements.dll give an error conflicting with enhancementsFREE
. If i remove Enhancements.dll, i can compile the code, but FPSC-MapEditor crash during level loading (even with FPSC-MapEditor.dbpro screen type corrected to hidden. Thanks @ The zombie killer)
I tried to use Enhancements Pack v4 only, but i had new compilation errors...

Could you explain exactly what are the requirements (free dll's and registered TGC plugins) to compile latest SVN FPSC source code ?
Corno_1
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Posted: 4th Jun 2012 17:55
ok i have now 5 fps more

but the decal fly away in the wrong direction or fall on the floor and they dont explode!

Yes, i´m a noob, but i like it
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=196656&b=24
Corno_1
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Posted: 4th Jun 2012 17:57
ok i have now 5 fps more

but the flaks fly in the wrong direction or fall on the floor and they dont explode!

Yes, i´m a noob, but i like it
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=196656&b=24
Scene Commander
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Posted: 4th Jun 2012 18:12
@Corno_1

I'm sorry, I can't replicate this at all, it all seems to be working. Has anyone else experienced this?
0Alemar0
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Posted: 4th Jun 2012 19:29
any workaround to blank.bmp before next update? FPSC not start here and I have the same message already showed.
Flatlander
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Posted: 4th Jun 2012 21:01
I'm just guessing, of course, but I have a feeling the next beta will be out soon.

I don't know of any work-a-round. Maybe SC has something.

"A programmer is just a tool which converts caffeine into code . . . reminds me….. if I had one more brain cell, I could have a synapse! woo hoo, Sparky!

~I'm the Terry of the Flatlands.
bruce3371
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Posted: 5th Jun 2012 00:00
From further up the page;

Quote: "I've removed the need for the image completely and the fix will be in the next beta which should solve your issues. "


So yes, it looks like SC had dealt with it

Section 812
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Posted: 5th Jun 2012 05:42 Edited at: 5th Jun 2012 06:44
I don't know if this has been mentioned or if it is supposed to be that way, but I just checked out the multiplayer and ingame under the characters I see the "name Team: name" in red and right in the middle of that same line in white is the name again.
Doesn't look right to me.

[edit]
I looked through the source and it looks to me like this section is writing the text on top of text.

I don't think the second name needs to be printed.
Errant AI
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Posted: 5th Jun 2012 10:52
Hi Scene, I've sent you an email with some issues I've encountered in beta1. It seems a bit sketchy.
Corno_1
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Posted: 5th Jun 2012 12:34 Edited at: 6th Jun 2012 16:28
none

Yes, i´m a noob, but i like it
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=196656&b=24
The Zombie Killer
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Posted: 5th Jun 2012 13:02
@Billy33
Try the X9 Modders Kit, it all works fine here for me.

-TZK

jmtmew
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Posted: 5th Jun 2012 13:09
Does the 'videotexture' command do what is says on the tin?

Scene Commander
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Posted: 5th Jun 2012 13:55
@Errant AI - replied.

@Corno_1 - I answered this on the previous page, I can't replicate this issue.

@jmtmew - the video texturing allows the user to use any of the system supported video files in place of the current texture.It is designed mainly for running videos on ingame monitors, etc but I'm sure will have many other uses.
Red Eye
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Posted: 5th Jun 2012 13:58 Edited at: 5th Jun 2012 13:58
@SceneCommander: What method did you use for the Video Texturing? DarkVideo Library or the inbuild play animation command? Because the latter has alot of issues with different video cards including my own, or did you managed to get around these issues?

Cheers,

jmtmew
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Posted: 5th Jun 2012 14:11
@SC Ah, brilliant that's exactly what I needed for a couple of my levels, I'll definitely give this a try

Scene Commander
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Posted: 5th Jun 2012 14:15
@Red Eye

It uses the play animation command. I obviously can't test on all machines, but it's been tested on 6 different machines all running a different card without issue, but I guess only full beta testing will confirm.
Corno_1
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Posted: 5th Jun 2012 21:01 Edited at: 6th Jun 2012 16:33
ok i make a mistake sry! i have a wrong command in the flakspec! now i removed it and everything work correctly!

sry

Yes, i´m a noob, but i like it
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=196656&b=24
Marc Steene
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Posted: 6th Jun 2012 19:08
BUG: Video textures continue playing while the game is paused


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Scene Commander
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Posted: 6th Jun 2012 20:09
Thanks for report Marc, fixed for next beta.
Scene Commander
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Posted: 7th Jun 2012 14:04
For those who haven't seen, beta 2 is now up... Enjoy.
The Warrior Studio
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Posted: 7th Jun 2012 15:07
i have (1) problem the tex. in the builtgame is more real than in the game it self is that normal and i want to be the tex. be high def.
Ertlov
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Posted: 7th Jun 2012 17:15
testing Beta 2 !

Come to where the madness is:http://www.homegrowngames.at
Marc Steene
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Posted: 7th Jun 2012 17:41
Gonna try this now, the uncapped FPS sounds good


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Marc Steene
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Posted: 7th Jun 2012 18:23 Edited at: 7th Jun 2012 18:31
BUG: When viewing video textures from underwater they vanish (probably not worth fixing if it takes a lot of performance to render it with the water refraction)

SUSPECTED BUG: Alpha fade commands are no longer working for me - corpses just disappear instead of the fading effect I've scripted.

Here's my script which causes a corpse to fade out after 3 seconds of being dead if you need to test it:

:state=0:state=1,coloff,etimerstart
:state=1,etimergreater=3000:setalphafade=100,state=2
:state=2,alphafadeequal=100:decalphafade=0
:state=2,alphafadeequal=0:destroy

Other than that the unlocked FPS is very nice. I'll be testing this out some more now.

EDIT

BUG: Setvar=$FPS still doesn't work :/

Also SC, did the issue where sound didn't get paused when the game is paused ever get fixed?

EDIT 2

BUG: Player weapon not affected by player camera offsets


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uzi idiot
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Posted: 7th Jun 2012 18:43
Ah good. The frame rate's all better for me.

If something compiles on the first try. Something is terribly wrong.
s4real
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Posted: 7th Jun 2012 18:51 Edited at: 7th Jun 2012 18:52
Tested beta 2

Map :- Map tested metro theater being its an official pack.

1:- Frame rate is a lot better so was impressed with that well done.

2:- Some lights still invisible until you get close to them but not so many now.

3:- If hold down left button it goes on a mission of iron site on and iron site off, I'm sure it use to wait until u let go of the mouse button before it go off iron site.

4:- Using a lot more memory than last build before I was using 997mb and now using 1085mb.

Seems scene going in the right direction with this version but more testing is needed.

best s4real


Pack ya games with vishnu packer its free. Vishnu game launcher is now released.
Scene Commander
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Posted: 7th Jun 2012 19:12 Edited at: 7th Jun 2012 19:12
@Marc Steene

1) Fixed for next beta.

2) Not sure what you're trying to do with the $FPS as it's working for me.

Quote: "did the issue where sound didn't get paused when the game is paused ever get fixed?"


I don't remember this one being reported, there are fixes in place though so I guess it needs testing.

@S4Real.

I can increase the default cull range a little more to solve the light issue.

Quote: "If hold down left button it goes on a mission of iron site on and iron site off, I'm sure it use to wait until u let go of the mouse button before it go off iron site."


There have been no changes here, and I can't remember what it used to be like either.. So, I don't know...

Quote: "Using a lot more memory than last build before I was using 997mb and now using 1085mb."


I'm aware of this, to solve an issue with some ogg's not playing in built game we've had to undo some of the auto conversion so we have a stable build, but I am still reviewing this and looking at ways for reinstating it without causing issues. I have some thoughts...

I'm glad everyone is enjoying the FPS increases
Errant AI
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Posted: 7th Jun 2012 19:47
Quote: ""If hold down left button it goes on a mission of iron site on and iron site off, I'm sure it use to wait until u let go of the mouse button before it go off iron site.""


You mean right button? It's been like that for a while. Nothing new.

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