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AppGameKit Classic Chat / AGK 2 Official Development Blog

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Paul Johnston
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Posted: 13th Sep 2014 02:45
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Quote: "Do we have a CopyFile command yet?"


Not yet, it's on my list.

Quote: "They have a small server tool that runs on mac. The Windows IDE sends commands to the server tool on mac over the network, and the server tool uses the line commands to compile "


My understanding is that you still need a Mac to upload the IPA to Apple though? Since it is done by the Application Loader program which is only available on Mac.
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MikeHart
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Posted: 13th Sep 2014 13:40
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Paul: In Alpha6 on OSX, will be the autocomplete list now be "complete", means all commands show up? I had this problem mentioned before but in your Sept. 12th update, in the first post, you didn't mention that this is fixed.
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bjadams
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Posted: 13th Sep 2014 14:01
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yes paul you still need a mac to use application loader. but you can facilitate the rest of the process using 1 click! using Delphi it takes less than 1 minute to compile and get a working ipa!
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Clonkex
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Posted: 13th Sep 2014 16:54
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Awesooooome! Loving the sound of the latest updates to V2, Paul & co! My compliments to the chef


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Santman
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Posted: 13th Sep 2014 19:40
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Is there any way to pick the rbg values of a pixel on screen yet? That would be awesome.

And for pc dear, the ability to run another exe, for loaders etc? And the ability to change the icon? If the time easy there, the ability to call dlls like dbpro would be awesome too.
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MarcoBruti
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Posted: 13th Sep 2014 22:26
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playsound does not work. The projects is compiled, but at runtime I see "illegal instrunction" message.
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xCept
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Posted: 15th Sep 2014 03:22 Edited at: 15th Sep 2014 03:24
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Quote: "Is there any way to pick the rbg values of a pixel on screen yet? That would be awesome."


There isn't a native command for this capability (Lee originally said it was omitted due to mobile performance reasons when AppGameKit was young) but with memblocks it becomes easy to integrate such functionality yourself. Here, I wrote a quick function that does just that! It is fast enough to be called each frame and run full speed on the devices I tested, but could slow down depending on your requirements (i.e., if you need to call it for many different coords each frame). Essentially it grabs an image at the specified coordinates, converts it to a memblock and then extracts the color value and returns it to you for further processing.

Instructions: Copy the functions below to your app.

Usage: Point(x, y, returnType)

x, y: The coordinate that you wish to extract the color value from.

returnType: 0 = raw integer value, 1/2/3/4 = Red/Green/Blue/Alpha component value

If using '0' as the return type to get the full RGBA value, you can then extract the RGBA components manually using the GetColorR[G/B/A]() functions provided. AppGameKit V2 includes GetColorRed[Green/Blue] natively as well, but these functions ensure compatibility with V1 and support easy alpha extraction.

Attached also is a full working example.

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Digital Awakening
AGK Developer
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Posted: 15th Sep 2014 14:40
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Just noticed that there are new updates on Kickstarter. The latest one is of course that Alpha 6 is coming soon. This is buried in the update: "Added export APK option to the IDE". Paul has been hinting about it here on the forum but didn't think it was coming so soon. I don't recall it being part of the Kickstarter roadmap. This is one of the big important updates for AppGameKit if you ask me. There's also plenty of other updates.

For the whole list go here.

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Kezzla
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Posted: 15th Sep 2014 16:06
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Hi,
I have just started actually playing with AGK2(or even AppGameKit in general)
I am really liking the array UDT system that AGK2 uses.
One little thing that I have noticed- (there's probably a good reason for it)

I tried to use an integer value from a udt as a reference in another udt array and it told me that the index must be an Integer.

eg
This works


this does not


It's no biggie, i can just bounce it to a variable before I use it.

Just though I'd throw it out there and see why it's like that.

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Paul Johnston
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Posted: 15th Sep 2014 16:12 Edited at: 15th Sep 2014 16:18
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Quote: "In Alpha6 on OSX, will be the autocomplete list now be "complete""


I gave it a quick test and I think I've fixed it.

Quote: "yes paul you still need a mac to use application loader. but you can facilitate the rest of the process using 1 click! using Delphi it takes less than 1 minute to compile and get a working ipa!"


I'll have a think about this after Alpha 6 is out.

Quote: "for pc dear, the ability to run another exe, for loaders etc? And the ability to change the icon? If the time easy there, the ability to call dlls like dbpro would be awesome too."


They are on my todo list.

Quote: "playsound does not work. The projects is compiled, but at runtime I see "illegal instrunction" message."


It works here, sounds like it might be a mismatched compiler and player.

Edit:
Quote: "I tried to use an integer value from a udt as a reference in another udt array and it told me that the index must be an Integer."


I can't replicate this, how is the character type defined?
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bjadams
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Posted: 15th Sep 2014 16:44
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I like the new strategy that TGC are taking now

frequent updates & doing new things in new alpha versions apart from the KS promises.

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unlikely
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Posted: 15th Sep 2014 18:02
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Agreed. I truly appreciate the increased communication.
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peterJBE
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Posted: 15th Sep 2014 22:25
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Are there commands in v2 to get the position and rotation of individual bones in a Spine Skeleton while animating? (example: the position of the foot of a soccer player on a certain moment in time)

If not: Will they be added? Will they be integrated with the Physics commands?
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JohnnyMeek
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Posted: 16th Sep 2014 09:22
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I also love that they are doing things not included in the KS goals.

I just hope we get official Chartboost integration, and some analytics, Flurry would be a perfect choice.

It's time for AppGameKit to step out of the hobbyist shadow.
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baxslash
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Posted: 16th Sep 2014 10:26
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What's wrong with my shadow?

I love the odd useful addition such as apk building personally but if AppGameKit is ever to mature the basic command set needs to be complete. 2D is mostly there (although I'd love to see a few commands for Box2D and Spine that are missing) but 3D is not really even started.

Any professional programmer worth their salt can add other libraries into the interpreter if they are really worth having but until the engine is complete is it really worth adding another library of commands into AppGameKit that 95% of users will never use? How many people use GameCenter or Facebook or multi-player or video or dare I say it Spine? Let's get this thing finished and working up to the full V2 command set before worrying about another hardly used library!
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Santman
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Posted: 16th Sep 2014 11:42
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Xcept,

OMG, you're just awesome. I've barely been near my pc for weeks, but this should fit the bill for me perfectly as everything I need to use it for is offline processing if you on like, so speed isn't an issue.

Now all I need is the ability to launch an app through an app on Windows (command line parameters too please!) and I've got all the commands I need. Happy bunny today.
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Santman
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Posted: 16th Sep 2014 11:50
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Baxslash,

I take a different view to you to be honest. I've said for some time tgc needed to choose a platform because the simple fact is they aren't resourced to cover all platforms. Agk is good, and now it's very close to being a proper mobile development platform which in fairness is where 99% of its users develop towards, but let's be honest as a pc language it doesn't cut it. And my last project I dropped mobile support and focused on pc, and I'm old school dbpro so I see the pc short Cummings. In fact, if I wasn't already so far in I'd have dropped Agk and gone back to dbpro long ago, but even it is flagging.

However, I have unreal 4 kit, and have used unity.... Both are pro choices for all platforms but for those who haven't used it, unreal 4 is ridiculously hard to use with a degree in it, and there in lies the power of Agk. By supplying more advanced features, like Facebook, but in a way that Joe blogs can use, I think Agk is going the right way. Even if it's the wrong way for me.
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baxslash
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Posted: 16th Sep 2014 12:04
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Santman, I'm not sure you have that different a view to me from what you just said. I agree that TGC need more resources to cover all platforms properly (I'm sure they would agree too). I also agree that (for 3D at least) AppGameKit doesn't cut it. For 2D it is excellent for all platforms. Where we disagree is only on the additional tools. I think the tools that are in AppGameKit for social networking etc. are fine (or more than enough) for now. I want to see a finished tool before I see any more of these, that's all I'm saying.

It's no good having icing if the cake is still in the oven
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JohnnyMeek
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Posted: 16th Sep 2014 12:17
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Quote: "Any professional library of commands into AppGameKit that 95% of users will never use? How many people use GameCenter or Facebook or multi-player or video or dare I say it Spine? "


This is where I disagree.

If you want to make games that are financially successful, these things are essential. Which is why if AppGameKit had them, it would probably attract a wider audience of users. And, these are elements provided by competing solutions.

Don't get me wrong, I love working with AGK. I love working in T1, even though I've programmed in C++ for many other projects. I love that I can test my game ideas quickly, it's an awesome way to be creative.

Thankfully people like Naphier have implemented Chartboost for V1, so I have a chance of maybe making some money from my work. It would be great that either a) AppGameKit supported this stuff, or b) 3rd parties could sell plugins for this support.
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Naphier
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Posted: 16th Sep 2014 13:19
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Tons of users use Facebook, GameCenter, and Google Play game services. These are essentials that gamers almost expect. Social platform integration is extremely important to small indie success. I personally think the only thing missing from AppGameKit is solid 3rd party SDK support for things like Facebook, Google Play, and other options for In App Purchases (I'd love to see OpenIAB here - would give us a ton of more options for monetization).
Spine's OK, but I doubt I'll ever use it and it has been a huge focus of v2 for many. The 2D engine for AppGameKit is pretty good, a library of nice sprite shaders would be awesome. Performance could always be better, but it is pretty good.

The reason I stay with AppGameKit vs another platform is that it is quick and easy to write in t1. I can prototype a game in a few hours. There is some social integration, but it is falling apart. My runner up is Unity and i falls short in a couple of areas:
1) I'd need to buy plugins for 3rd party extensions (IAP , Facebook, etc) - I'd pay for these with AppGameKit, but not ready to pay for them with Unity since I have to learn a new language (but C# is pretty simple)
2) There's no good way to use a world / percentage coordinate system with Unity. They do have a new UI system with anchoring that will solve most of my issues, but I really like to design with a solid fit-to-screen style of design vs. a cropped design. So that will actually take me more work in Unity vs AGK.
Not to mention the UI, encryption, and other tools I'd lose if I went to Unity. Plus Unity, like AppGameKit runs through OpenGL and NDK on Android, so many of the same performance issues exist, and even the issues that we have with keyboard input on android also happens a bit in Unity (though it seems they've fixed most of it).

So all these lovely extras like a new IDE and debugger are great, but my preference would be that monetization tools (yes social integration is included in as a monetization tool) should be focused on over specialty tools like Spine and a new IDE.

Either that or AppGameKit can simply adopt an approach that allows the end users to more easily modify the engine core, Xcode, and Android templates. That would be the simplest solution for them. Then WE the developers could essentially design plugins that allow extended features like Unity. This would be my preference as it would allow for earning opportunities from folks like us and relieve a bit of the pressure from AGK.

TGC is a small company so allowing and facilitating end user modification would be a great boon to their business model.

Napland Games - Shape Time - Wordspionage - dFenz Facebook
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Digital Awakening
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Posted: 16th Sep 2014 14:23
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I think that monetization, social integration and multiple platforms are all very important. Far more important than 3D. All my game ideas are now input agnostic. With an over saturated mobile market, I don't think it is a good idea to only focus on that. The best way to reach multiple users is by covering multiple platforms.

With what's coming in alpha 6. There are currently 3 things that I personally want the most. Better controller support on PC, Steam Store integration and Linux as a platform. If you look at the indie scene then these things are very important. AppGameKit is already very capable when it comes to creating a successful indie game. The type of game that can sell 10-30k copies at 5-15$ each. I let you do the math on that. And those games do not require any of that mobile monetization or social integration.

My point is that there are many ways to make money on the games we make. I don't think AppGameKit should ignore any method. The engine itself is fully capable of all kinds of games. What we need to be able to do is the final delivery. With the latest alpha I say this is the only area where AppGameKit ends up short. It stumbles on the finishing line. Adding 3D to this will not solve anything.

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bjadams
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Posted: 16th Sep 2014 14:52
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i agree with Baxslash on the 3d, in that AppGameKit should have a full featured 2d command set (we are very near that point) before they keep on adding 3d commands. There are a lot of very good 3d engines for free (like Anarchy) these days, so AppGameKit cannot compete in 3d.

Facebook, Gamecenter, proper Ads ... these are all essentials, we need all the necessary commands that the sdks supply.
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baxslash
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Posted: 16th Sep 2014 15:27
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I guess you might think that my opinion is irrelevant because I make games for fun rather than to make money. I do intend to release them and not all of them will be free but I honestly don't care if I make any more money from them than I need to justify the expense of my hobby.

That aside I do have an opinion regarding games in general and I'm pretty sure I'm not alone.

I play games to escape for a little while. I like playing a wide variety of games on different platforms and have done for around 30 years and my own opinion is that:
1-I HATE seeing adverts in games. Free or otherwise I'd rather not play the game if there are adverts
2-I don't want to share my in-game achievements with my friends because it's my personal escape (and they probably don't care how good I am at tapping a screen or moving a mouse, they've certainly never asked me)
3-Monetisation cheapens the thrill whether it's IAP or Ads or whatever. I love a game that stands on its own 2 feet and says I cost $XXX, buy me or don't buy me
4-If I make a game I want to know that I would enjoy playing it

Currently 3D is missing (existing commands are far too basic) and 2D could be easily "polished". I don't really care about 3D BUT if it was mostly there it could compete with Unity.

What? Yes it could compete with Unity because there are a lot of developers / hobbyists out there who want a good 3D engine but don't have thousands of dollars to spend on removing the splash screen (and perhaps who actually prefer coding to drag & drop). AppGameKit could provide better value. That's competing.
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Digital Awakening
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Posted: 16th Sep 2014 15:35
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Quote: "1-I HATE seeing adverts in games. Free or otherwise I'd rather not play the game if there are adverts
2-I don't want to share my in-game achievements with my friends because it's my personal escape (and they probably don't care how good I am at tapping a screen or moving a mouse, they've certainly never asked me)
3-Monetisation cheapens the thrill whether it's IAP or Ads or whatever. I love a game that stands on its own 2 feet and says I cost $XXX, buy me or don't buy me
4-If I make a game I want to know that I would enjoy playing it"

While I agree with you, different markets works in different ways. I rather just pay for a complete game than micro transactions but that doesn't do so well on mobile these days and it's seeping into other areas as well. And there are tons of variations on these concepts too.

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bjadams
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Posted: 16th Sep 2014 17:32
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if you want 3d use Anarchy it's for free, no need of spending thousands of $ or wait for AGK
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JimHawkins
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Posted: 16th Sep 2014 18:03
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Anarchy is only free for mobiles. The PC exporter is $499

Pascal users - check out Castle Game Engine. This is free, cross-platform, and does just about everything you could want short of sex!

-- Jim - When is there going to be a release?
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CJB
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Posted: 16th Sep 2014 19:09
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Is anyone else hitting refresh on their "My Products" page? Hehe...

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Space Dream Studios
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Posted: 16th Sep 2014 20:24
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Yes, I'm doing it too!

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Kezzla
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Posted: 21st Sep 2014 03:05
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Quote: "Quote: "I tried to use an integer value from a udt as a reference in another udt array and it told me that the index must be an Integer."

I can't replicate this, how is the character type defined?"


Nevermind, I got it working in another project after abandoning the mess. I must have overlooked something in my terrible tangle of learner code.

Great work Paul!

To Err is Human...
To Arr is Pirate!
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MarcoBruti
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Posted: 23rd Sep 2014 15:52
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playsound does not work in alpha6 too for windows.
Any idea?

playsound(ballOutSoundId,musicOn)
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Space Dream Studios
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Posted: 23rd Sep 2014 15:59 Edited at: 23rd Sep 2014 16:02
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Are you sure, that you use the parameters in a correct way?
Keep in mind, if you use the command like aboth, the second parameter is the volume of the sound, which is 100 by default. What is your "musicOn" set to? Because your "musicOn" parameter stays for the volume in your example
PlaySound works like it has to on all my systems.

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JohnStabler
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Posted: 24th Sep 2014 16:09
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I've got sounds that play in Windows but not in the AppGameKit player on Android. Is this likely to be something to do with AppGameKit?

This isn't just a single sound file, but several of them. I checked their formats and can't see anything strange.
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Clonkex
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Posted: 24th Sep 2014 16:48 Edited at: 24th Sep 2014 16:49
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Make sure you're using the correct casing for the filenames. Windows isn't case-sensitive (AFAIK) but Android definitely is.


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Alien Menace
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Posted: 1st Oct 2014 01:48 Edited at: 1st Oct 2014 06:22
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Quote: "Quote: "How about Dynamic Lists?"

Yes http://www.appgamekit.com/documentation/guides/12_array_changes.htm"


Ok, so I am having trouble understanding how to use types with the new dynamic arrays. Not sure how to insert a new set of values for the type fields dynamically or do I have to find the current length of the array and add it the old way?

Oh, upon further study... myArray as myType[] doesn't seem to work. Please tell me types are supported by the dynamic array system.

Thanks

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Markus
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Posted: 1st Oct 2014 13:14 Edited at: 1st Oct 2014 13:36
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@Alien Menace
my test with new array system


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Alien Menace
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2014 06:50 Edited at: 2nd Oct 2014 06:51
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Thanks for the example. I think that if you have to use myArray as TTest[100] instead of myArray as TTest[] it isn't really a dynamic array. Types really need to be fully supported in dynamic arrays.

man..

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Markus
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@Alien Menace
myArray as TTest[]
=
myArray as TTest[0]
or what did you mean?

AGK 108 (B)19 + AppGameKit V2 Alpha .. : Windows 8.1 Pro 64 Bit : AMD Radeon R7 265
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Paul Johnston
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Posted: 3rd Oct 2014 03:52
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works here, and creates an empty array of length -1. Using .insert on it will add an element at index 0.
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Space Dream Studios
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Posted: 6th Oct 2014 14:35
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@Paul: Hi Paul, any chance to built in an image capturing function, without the default capturing screen? I'm asking because I have some argumented reality apps in mind, I would love to create and for that it would be perfect to capture the current camera image in the background and present it on the screen in the way I want it to appear, including the option to set the depth value behind any other graphics and 3d objects!?

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Clonkex
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Posted: 6th Oct 2014 15:31
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Quote: "I would love to create and for that it would be perfect to capture the current camera image in the background and present it on the screen in the way I want it to appear, including the option to set the depth value behind any other graphics and 3d objects!?"


Do you mean direct camera access? That's one thing I've wanted for ages.


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Alien Menace
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Posted: 7th Oct 2014 08:06 Edited at: 8th Oct 2014 06:41
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Any chance of getting a ChooseRawDir command soon or maybe being able to extract the full path from ChooseRawFile?

Thanks.

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gwheycs62egydws
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Posted: 7th Oct 2014 23:25
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I would settle just for being able to be able to make apk file ;O)

even if i never sell or give out any program i make
it is nice to be able to do what ever i want on any system
i use ;o)

and with the development of this i can do that now
in far less time if i had to learn how to program in Linux
or c or c++

to move side ways - is to move forward
Since a Strait line gets thin fast
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Alien Menace
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Posted: 8th Oct 2014 07:06 Edited at: 8th Oct 2014 07:13
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Also being able to use ChooseRawFile to save a file would be helpful (maybe adding a parameter for save/load. It is tough writing a PC app that saves/loads data with the limited file commands. I can pull up a file requester to load something but apparently I can't pull up one to save something. Weird. Apparently the only way to specify a path is by hard coding it in. I am about 75% through an editor application and now I am totally tripped up due to the limitations of the file commands. On the plus side, the dynamic types are working great. Not sure what I was initially doing wrong.

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Santman
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Posted: 8th Oct 2014 16:24
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@alien menace,

Can't you make your own simple file Explorer using the commands to get first/next files and folders? I did this in dbpro and it only took a couple of evenings, especially if all you want are folders. Then you'd create the path and save the file using a string as the save location.
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Alien Menace
AGK Developer
19
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Joined: 11th Jan 2005
Location: Earth (just visiting)
Posted: 8th Oct 2014 21:46
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I'm not sure there is a way to get a list of drives. Also, AppGameKit has virtually no GUI commands so I am not looking at reinventing the wheel here. ChooseRawFile uses the system file requester, it should be a fairly trivial thing to add some additional parameters to allow saving or selecting a folder through this same file dialogue with the addition of a flag. unfortunately file$ currently get truncated to only the actual file name, omitting the actual path. I wish something like this can be added:

file$=ChooseRawFile(1,a,b)
// a=0 open
// a=1 save
// a=2 folder select

// b=0 return only filename
// b=1 return full path

Apps published: 4
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baxslash
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Location: Duffield
Posted: 9th Oct 2014 00:02
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Paul, sorry to ask but I have a critical request for Spine. The current commands "GetSkeleton2DBoneX", "GetSkeleton2DBoneY" and "GetSkeleton2DBoneAngle" only give the values for the Setup Pose. Is there actually a use for these commands? I thought (stupidly) that these would return a value for the current position and angle in world/screen space. Without a command for this I cannot position anything relative to a bone position, for example my bullets should fire out of the end of my gun but there is no way of finding the current position of the "firepoint" bone I created without parsing the json file myself and calculating the position... which is ridiculous. Please tell me that these commands are just placeholders for the way the commands should work?

An alternative I would be happy with would be something like "GetSkeleton2DBoneSlot" and "GetSkeleton2DSlotSpriteID" so I could at least get the sprite position / angle myself and work from there.

Live Bone position and angle would be much better though...
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DavidAGK
AGK Developer
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Posted: 9th Oct 2014 21:16
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Hi Paul,

Any chance of full support for the XBOX 360 PC controller? I think it's a pretty heavily used controller for PC gaming and currently AppGameKit V2 doesn't see the right stick, triggers and the D-Pad.
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peterJBE
16
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Location: Belgium
Posted: 9th Oct 2014 22:01
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Paul, I would surely second baxslash suggestion for extra Spine commands.
I appreciate very much the hard work you put in AppGameKit v2.
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baxslash
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Location: Duffield
Posted: 9th Oct 2014 23:18
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I'm writing a new game with a view to properly testing Spine. So far it's been going well although I have very little time to commit to it as I have some paid work to get done in my spare time at the moment.

The bone position commands seemed perfect but only until I realised that the position given was a) Relative to the position of the character (not to the character world position) and b) Only for the startup pose, not the current position of the bone in real time. I'll probably be back complaining about more missing Spine commands at a later date...
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gwheycs62egydws
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Location: The World
Posted: 10th Oct 2014 02:35
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i would like to know when the release of "AGK"
will let some one make thereown apk files ?

to move side ways - is to move forward
Since a Strait line gets thin fast
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