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AppGameKit Classic Chat / AGK 2 Official Development Blog

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Naphier
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Posted: 9th Jul 2014 03:43
I think it would be really nice to have some more types. Doubles and longs would be especially helpful. I could also see myself using bytes. Bool would be handy too. I've often used memblocks when concerned about memory, but they're not nearly as flexible as a UDT array.

Clonkex
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Posted: 9th Jul 2014 03:45
Quote: "Does it really matter on modern devices?"


It definitely can. Especially if you're making, for example, a Minecraft clone - lots and lots of little datas. If you only need a byte for storage, and you're forced to use 4 bytes, you're using 4 times as much memory (obviously); not normally an issue, but when you've got 512x512x512 (134,217,728) blocks and you need 3 bytes for each, using integers instead (12 bytes) uses 1,536MB of memory, whereas the correct 3 bytes per block uses only 384MB - enough to fit on a mobile device.

nz0
AGK Developer
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Posted: 9th Jul 2014 03:51
Although I'm not making a minecraft clone, I do have 512x512 worlds, which need to contain a lot of data in each cell.

Yes, I could use an integer and bit divide it for the data, but it's all extra work and less readable code. More annoying if you implement such a model and find out that V2 did introduce bytes and bools when you could have used them in the first place!

JimHawkins
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Posted: 9th Jul 2014 09:00
Yes - but I'm not worrying about 4 bytes! It's quite likely that a byte value will be stored as 4 bytes, anyway, because it's more processor-efficient to have it on an aligned address.

If they are Boolean values you can pack 32 into one integer and create some mask operators. Voila!

-- Jim - When is there going to be a release?
Clonkex
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Posted: 9th Jul 2014 12:31 Edited at: 9th Jul 2014 12:34
Quote: "It's quite likely that a byte value will be stored as 4 bytes, anyway, because it's more processor-efficient to have it on an aligned address."


So even in C++ a byte type can still be aligned to 4 bytes?

JimHawkins
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Posted: 9th Jul 2014 14:13
It's up to the compiler. But as I understand it, which may be complete nonsense, the processor will normally fetch a 32/64-bit memory access and then have to mask the value for the byte.

Just checked on this, and all modern CPUs will fetch at least word-aligned memory values, and possibly 32 or 64-bit. This is far more memory-bus efficient. They simply don't access memory that's not aligned on the even boundaries.

Only Paul knows what the internals of the Basic run-time system are, but I doubt if it's actually storing and dealing with non-aligned values.

That's why ANSI strings are inherently slower, because if they are really packed into bytes in a field of 4 or 8 bytes within a singled unsigned store, the overhead for fetching them might be significant.

-- Jim - When is there going to be a release?
Paul Johnston
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Posted: 9th Jul 2014 14:44
I can see 64 bit floats and integers being useful, so I might add them at some point in the future. However, each new data type adds lots of new interpreter instructions for loading, storing, arithmetic, and casting, so I won't be adding byte or short types. I have tried to make the bitwise commands flexible enough that you can pack multiple values into a single integer if you want to save space, but if you can think of something that would make it easier let me know.
Clonkex
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Posted: 9th Jul 2014 16:12 Edited at: 9th Jul 2014 16:14
Ah I see. You learn something new every day

All sounds good, Paul. From my small experience using them, the bitwise commands seem very good and I'm sure I can learn to pack bytes efficiently if necessary

bjadams
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Posted: 12th Jul 2014 17:53
what is the state of the last v2 beta version for T2?
will the ios template compile without problems with the latest xcode?

also does gamecenter work with ios?

anyone has submitted an agk app with v2 in the last month and was not rejected by apple?

i have 2 projects almost done in agk that have been in limbo for almost 2 years now and i would like to release them this summer and move on.

thanks
xCept
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Posted: 12th Jul 2014 22:16
I have been unable to even compile the iOS player for V2 let alone any custom bytecode. I don't know of anyone who has successfully released an app with V2 yet. This is why I was hopeful we would have gotten a proper V2 release with fully working templates and players for at least iOS and Android before all the work started on the new Tier 1 IDE/compiler.
Santman
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Posted: 12th Jul 2014 22:45
Why don't you just finish them in v1? Why do you need v2?
bjadams
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Posted: 13th Jul 2014 00:43
@Santman I don't want to go into the hassle to have to set v1 templates on my Mac, when this is depreciated now, because of v2.
bjadams
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Posted: 13th Jul 2014 00:44
@Xcept so basically right now v2 does not exist in any workable form apart from Windows?
Naphier
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Posted: 13th Jul 2014 00:51
v1 isn't deprecated (though AdMob in v1 is deprecated as of August 1 and FB friends list will no longer work - any word on fixing these, Paul?)

v2 won't be viable for all platforms for a while. I certainly wouldn't hold out for it unless there is a feature you definitely need.

bjadams
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Posted: 13th Jul 2014 12:15
@Naphier I will check again in the end of 2015, maybe by then AppGameKit v2 will be usable after some user fixes the t2 templates, and some other user posts a 10 page long guide how to set things up in xcode, etc....
Digital Awakening
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Posted: 26th Jul 2014 14:25
Paul:
Any chance of raw commands to check input from a 360 d-pad in the next alpha? I was writing the readme for the PC version of the upcoming RTA alpha and it's disheartening to write that the d-pad doesn't work. It won't make it in time for my release but it would be nice to see implemented before you move over to 3D.

Scary Little Rabbit
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Posted: 26th Jul 2014 20:40
Paul, any chance of commands to execute some files on Windows/elsewhere in future?

error #1:
"too many stars, too many stares. disembody."
WIP: MIND!! | free fonts for your AGKs
sovr
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Posted: 26th Jul 2014 22:27 Edited at: 26th Jul 2014 22:30
I have always talked about a system where there is a shader folder and AppGameKit would automatically load it into it's system. You could just call the shaders, and there would be some shaders already put into the folder when you install AGK.

That and I always wanted a custom button feature on the IDE to call things with a custom command linked to it.

Another think would be cool is lua commands in AGK. I have done this in tier 2, but in tier 1 would be cool. You can make it so people can mod your game without giving out code or making your own scripting language.

Just food for thought

p.s. I have actually thought of posting a tier 2 template that includes lua and opencv in it for those who are interested. I did have some issues with getting opencv to work, but I could get it working.

website: http://worksimpleintelligen.wix.com/parkers-apps
facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ParkersApps
youtube: http://www.youtube.com/user/mrsovr
Clonkex
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Posted: 28th Jul 2014 04:23
Quote: "I have actually thought of posting a tier 2 template that includes lua and opencv in it for those who are interested. I did have some issues with getting opencv to work, but I could get it working."


That could be cool I've often wanted to experiment with OpenCV.

fog
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Posted: 29th Jul 2014 02:25
Quote: "Paul:
Any chance of raw commands to check input from a 360 d-pad in the next alpha?"

I second this. The 360 pad is pretty much the standard PC joypad so having no dpad support is a big problem.

Paul Johnston
TGC Developer
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Posted: 3rd Aug 2014 03:26
This week was focused on the build menu which currently tries to cater for every conceivable programming language and changes based on which document you have open. This proved too difficult to modify safely so I removed it completely and created a new build menu that is tailored to AGK. I now have it successfully calling the AppGameKit compiler, which displays errors in the IDE output window and allows you to click on the error and jump to the offending line. The compiler now also outputs multiple error messages instead of just displaying one at a time using message boxes.

Next is getting broadcasting working. Ideally the IDE should have more control over which devices it is broadcasting to, this then leads into debugging where (if everything goes to plan) you can view the variables of a particular device as it is running your app.

Quote: "Any chance of raw commands to check input from a 360 d-pad in the next alpha?"


It is possible if I add some code for XInput to the Windows version, but it might have to co-exist with DirectInput for legacy devices. I'll take a look at this after the version 2 goals.

Quote: "any chance of commands to execute some files on Windows"


That is a possibility, I'll take a look after version 2.
gwheycs62egydws
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Posted: 3rd Aug 2014 04:03
hi

i was hoping that this would save the apk file to my hard drive
then i could send it out

but sadly this is not the case

from what i read and checked out apk files are zip files
but for linux

if the program could save apk file on my hard drive instead of me
having to send them some ware that would help me out
so i could make the programs i have in mind

i do not have a access to regular internet and think it
was silly to set things up so that you had to have such
i am more than the average user so that gives me a edge some
others do not have , i understand why it was set up as such
but having the choice to save locally would be nice

also the program to play the built files on android and apple
seems kinda silly way to go about doing things considering
what it was made to do

to move side ways - is to move forward
Since a Strait line gets thin fast
Naphier
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Posted: 3rd Aug 2014 04:25
Most developers set up Eclipse and/or XCode to work on the deployable version of their games locally.
Unity will automatically build APK files for you, but those APK files are even quite limited and oftentimes Unity developers will also use Eclipse or XCode to make the APK that they will distribute on stores.
Also, the program to play the build files (I assume you mean the bytecode AppGameKit player) is necessary for Tier 1 projects because it is not a native language to the platform. So there needs to be an intermediary interpreter (the AppGameKit Player). Unity has something similar for testing games called Unity Remote.
So the way AppGameKit is doing things is, in my opinion, completely ordinary for a cross-platform development tool.

JimHawkins
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Posted: 3rd Aug 2014 12:34
For Basic, the player is needed. The compiler produces a bytecode file which is interpreted by the player.

For C++ or Pascal, an APK file is created on the hard disk for Android or an EXE for Windows, and whatever Mac or iOS requires. These compilers give you a lot more control, and power developers will almost certainly use them eventually.

-- Jim - When is there going to be a release?
baxslash
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Posted: 4th Aug 2014 17:32 Edited at: 4th Aug 2014 17:32
Paul, there seems to be a problem with loading characters from the latest version of Spine. Here is what I get from a simple scene:

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Paul Johnston
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Posted: 4th Aug 2014 17:35
Can you show me the spine file you are trying to load?
baxslash
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Posted: 4th Aug 2014 22:30 Edited at: 5th Aug 2014 10:29
Not right now, I'll try to upload it soon but it's just the basic spineboy character in the latest version.

EDIT: Attached is the character I'm trying to load and here is the code

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Paul Johnston
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Posted: 10th Aug 2014 00:25 Edited at: 10th Aug 2014 01:00
An update for this week, the broadcaster has been separated from the compiler into its own program and redesigned with debugging in mind. Rather than doing everything in one go (connect to device, upload, and run) it now accepts commands to connect to devices, upload projects, and start and stop the app running on a device. It is a console application that can be run completely separately from the IDE, or controlled with an IDE interface allowing the option for other IDEs to debug AppGameKit apps. The networking has also been simplified so everything on a device happens through a single connection which should make it more reliable.

I now have broadcasted apps working on Windows, Android, iOS, and Mac, I just have to write the IDE interface and clean some things up to produce Alpha 4.

Quote: "there seems to be a problem with loading characters from the latest version of Spine"


It looks like they changed the atlas file format, for now you can work around it by removing the line "size: 510,254".

Quote: "i was hoping that this would save the apk file to my hard drive "


I plan to have an "Export to APK" option in the IDE at some point.
Digital Awakening
AGK Developer
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Posted: 10th Aug 2014 01:00
Quote: "I plan to have an "Export to APK" option in the IDE at some point. "


That I really look forward to

xCept
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Posted: 10th Aug 2014 02:28
Quote: "I now have broadcasted apps working on Windows, Android, iOS, and Mac, I just have to write the IDE interface and clean some things up to produce Alpha 4.
"

Great, thanks so much!
MrValentine
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Playing: FFVII
Posted: 10th Aug 2014 02:58
Nice updates!

Anybody know what the status is for using AppGameKit T2 with VS13+?

sovr
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Posted: 10th Aug 2014 17:14 Edited at: 10th Aug 2014 17:17
I was wondering if the new IDE has a way of having additions put onto it. What I mean is for example myself could add some code to it and add a custom button to be linked to a command. Will there be a way to expand the IDE this way?

Also I second the vs 2013+, even though I just want it to be vs 2012+.
With C++ 11 they add standard threads in the std lib, if I remember
Correctly.

website: http://worksimpleintelligen.wix.com/parkers-apps
facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ParkersApps
youtube: http://www.youtube.com/user/mrsovr
Scary Little Rabbit
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Posted: 10th Aug 2014 18:23
Paul, will we be able to use IDE on Ubuntu (native Geany from standard repository + some configuration files for AppGameKit + Wine)? or will it be a custom build of Geany only for Windows?

error #1:
"too many stars, too many stares. disembody."
WIP: MIND!! | free fonts for your AGKs
gwheycs62egydws
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Posted: 10th Aug 2014 20:03 Edited at: 10th Aug 2014 20:53
glad to hear about the down the road tweaks ;o)

to move side ways - is to move forward
Since a Strait line gets thin fast
Paul Johnston
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Posted: 10th Aug 2014 22:00
Quote: "Anybody know what the status is for using AppGameKit T2 with VS13+?"


Currently we don't have plans to build a VS13 version as we haven't upgraded to it ourselves. Once I have some time I'll install it and have a look.

Quote: "I was wondering if the new IDE has a way of having additions put onto it."


Geany comes with a plugin system, but you'd have to compile your changes into a dll compatible with Geany 1.24.1

Quote: "will we be able to use IDE on Ubuntu"


The IDE will be open source, so in theory you could download it and try to compile it for Ubuntu, but since AppGameKit itself does not yet support Ubuntu we will only be targeting Windows and Mac for now.
Digital Awakening
AGK Developer
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Posted: 10th Aug 2014 22:05
Quote: "not yet"

I like that part

unlikely
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Posted: 12th Aug 2014 19:01 Edited at: 12th Aug 2014 19:02
Quote: "...targeting Windows and Mac for now."

This makes me quite happy.
Harlequin
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Posted: 13th Aug 2014 04:46
Linux possibly, maybe on the horizon.... also makes me happy.

It's late, I'm tired, out of coffee and now I'm wet.
gwheycs62egydws
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2014 22:20
it too bad Linux was not the choice of operating systems

it would have been better to have been able to make game in it
that worked with out this kind or that kind of bug made my the dummys and ms

to move side ways - is to move forward
Since a Strait line gets thin fast
Alien Menace
AGK Developer
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Posted: 29th Aug 2014 18:47 Edited at: 29th Aug 2014 18:55
Are Function Lists in the IDE? How about Dynamic Lists?

Also is there currently any way in AppGameKit to determine available resolutions?

I know your plate is full but DBPRO compatible network commands would be very, very helpful.

Thanks Paul.

Apps published: 4
Paul Johnston
TGC Developer
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Posted: 29th Aug 2014 19:10 Edited at: 29th Aug 2014 19:12
Quote: "Are Function Lists in the IDE?"


Yes, but currently only per file, not for the while project

Quote: "How about Dynamic Lists?"


Yes http://www.appgamekit.com/documentation/guides/12_array_changes.htm

Quote: "Also is there currently any way in AppGameKit to determine available resolutions?"


Not all, but you can use GetMaxDeviceWidth() and GetMaxDeviceHeight() to determine the full screen resolution

Quote: "I know your plate is full but DBPRO compatible network commands would be very, very helpful."


Noted, but that will take a while.
Le Verdier
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Posted: 4th Sep 2014 13:21
I have a quick question:
Are 3D maths functions planned in the 3D goal???
usual things about Vectors, matrices..

All hail the new flesh
aviles22
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Posted: 4th Sep 2014 22:39
WOW! I just downloaded V2 and the compiler is beautiful. Intellisense!
The ability to minimize Functions fixes the crazzzzzy task of looking through my sloppy code, lol!

I'm in love! Keep it coming...... I'm pretty sure 3D Object Animation is just around the corner.
ApkGames.Guru
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Posted: 12th Sep 2014 09:59
Hi all.

There is so much here for V2, I wondered if there is a link to an overview feature list.... i.e. the creation of APK's and in app purchasing for tier 1. Does anyone know if V2 will do away with the external website we have to use to compile tier 1? Also, will there be options to allow the APK to be compiled to incorporate in-app-purchasing?

I know some will say get into the native language and a fair point that is, although I grew up around basic and find using tier 1 allows me to just get on with coding (I'm too long in the tooth to be learning a new language know)..... but unfortunately, it does seem to have less feature than tier 2, as I mentioned above.

I'm sure I'm not the only person that would greet/sponsor tier 2 with open hands if it dealt with some of the 'missing' features

Look forward to the response.... a full feature list of V2 would be great too.

Your, a tier 1 programmer..., Ian.

www.zortokgames.com
CJB
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Posted: 12th Sep 2014 11:06 Edited at: 12th Sep 2014 11:09
Gyroscope/Magnetic/Ambient Light/GPS in the next build! Time to dig my Google Cardboard out! WOOHOO!!! Thanks TGC - When can we expect to see the next build!?? I've been looking forward to these sensor controls for SO long!

In fact, I think I might need to book some time off work. Lol!

Oh yeah, can you also add an "Export to Xcode Archive" option to the Windows IDE so we don't have to keep swapping between dev machines? That would be SO nice! (Is that even possible?)

Paul Johnston
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Posted: 12th Sep 2014 16:43
Quote: "Are 3D maths functions planned in the 3D goal???"


Don't know yet, undecided.

Quote: "Does anyone know if V2 will do away with the external website we have to use to compile tier 1? "


Yes, the IDE will have an export to APK option

Quote: "Also, will there be options to allow the APK to be compiled to incorporate in-app-purchasing?"


Yes, if you use the new command InAppPurchaseSetKeys to set your public key so the files don't have to be edited.

Quote: "I wondered if there is a link to an overview feature list"


I guess you could go back through the kickstarter updates to see what has been happening. For a more detailed list the alpha builds come with an AGK.txt file changelog.

Quote: "When can we expect to see the next build!??"


Currently looking like early next week, but I can't be sure.

Quote: "can you also add an "Export to Xcode Archive" option to the Windows IDE"


Unfortunately I don't think we can export anything iOS related on Windows, unless someone happens to know how the command line tools on Mac actually sign the IPA.
george++
AGK Tool Maker
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Posted: 12th Sep 2014 18:52
The progress is really admirable. Congrats
ApkGames.Guru
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Posted: 12th Sep 2014 22:35
Thanks Paul, really appreciate the feedback. Am looking forward to the next release, looks great.

www.zortokgames.com
fog
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Posted: 12th Sep 2014 23:01
Paul, I notice a couple of new file commands. Do we have a CopyFile command yet? Thanks

bjadams
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Posted: 13th Sep 2014 01:01
Paul, you need to look at the way Delphi generates an ipa from Windows.

They have a small server tool that runs on mac. The Windows IDE sends commands to the server tool on mac over the network, and the server tool uses the line commands to compile

This system is very convenient and works great. Might be useful to take a look at it (you can download Delphi 30 day trial for free)

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