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AppGameKit Classic Chat / AGK 2 Official Development Blog

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gwheycs62egydws
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Posted: 5th Dec 2014 19:55
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@Clonkex

thanks

i would do that but it dose not matter now
my computer is compleatly messed up
so i have to redo windows up agine

the good part i can recover my files
i was almost considering takeing the loss
but now all i have to do is the backing up files in dos mode and using
winrar . i hope i can get this all dun before monday since
i finaly understand more than i did

to move side ways - is to move forward
Since a Strait line gets thin fast
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SpinieBop
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Posted: 8th Dec 2014 23:59
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Naphier,

I put the splash screen in the folder above the media folder and run my app on a windowds PC, the splash screen does displayed but it is in portrait orientation with the left and right sides truncated, after my app loads it displays a small image of my app in the top left hand corner of the screen. My app is setup to run in landscape 420 X 320. When I create the APK and deploy it to an android phone the splash screen does not appear at all. Any ideas?

Kevin
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Naphier
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Posted: 9th Dec 2014 00:26
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@SpinieBop - I read somewhere that Paul basically discontinued support for the AGKSplash.png
I'd suggest not using it and just loading the image in the code. AppGameKit loads so quickly that you're not likely going to see a splash for more than a few milliseconds on Android.
Also, loading the image in the code provides you with greater control, like setting a background color so that it's not letterboxed or sizing it properly so it isn't stretched.
On iOS you're required to provide launch images for each device size, so you may want to exclude your splash screen when building on iOS.

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SpinieBop
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Posted: 10th Dec 2014 03:12
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Naphier,

I did what you suggested and put the splash screen at the start of my game to display while I set everything else up, it works fine, thanks for your advice.

Kevin
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gwheycs62egydws
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Posted: 10th Dec 2014 03:16
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i got to remember not to try and test other programs that offer
the ability to make android apps

that's ware i lost the ability to such a file

oo well i am back up and running and now i got idea's to pump out ;o)

to move side ways - is to move forward
Since a Strait line gets thin fast
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gwheycs62egydws
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Posted: 12th Dec 2014 21:24
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the way AppGameKit 2 is set up for help needs a bit more work
it would be nice not to have to keep switching windows
to get to the info

what DBP had at the bottom of the screen
when you click on command word would make the process easier

to move side ways - is to move forward
Since a Strait line gets thin fast
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Clonkex
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Posted: 15th Dec 2014 12:28
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Quote: "what DBP had at the bottom of the screen
when you click on command word would make the process easier"


Agree much!! By FAR one of the most awesomest features of DBPro EVAAA!


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World Class Multimedia
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Posted: 26th Dec 2014 03:01
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How far off is terrain and vertex editing? Will AGK2 have the ability to create matrices like Dark Basic/Pro?

Loading .x files would be great, too, since there is no real way to load rigged 3D objects and I really want to use AppGameKit to create my 3D game.

ETA?

Mike

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baxslash
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Posted: 26th Dec 2014 10:14 Edited at: 26th Dec 2014 10:17
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I downloaded from steam onto my Windows 8 Ultrabook and i get a missing dx sound bug when i run my app. Looks very unprofessional to me for it not to install all the necessary dll\'s on a target platform. Really it should use a sound system that works on any Windows version. This is pretty important for users who don\'t know how to build an installer that can install the necessary dll\'s when they are missing (most new programmers). It shouldn\'t happen anyway in my opinion and could get you some bad steam reviews.

Edit: as a side note i get annoyed having to delete all the baxslashes every time i edit a post on the forum (left them in this time )
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Ched80
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Posted: 26th Dec 2014 10:30
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That's odd bax, I run the steam version on win 8 and I don't get that error.

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baxslash
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Posted: 26th Dec 2014 12:18
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Well you must already have the dll on your system right?
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Ched80
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Posted: 26th Dec 2014 12:57
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True, or FPSC reloaded installed it. I'll try on my ultra book.

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World Class Multimedia
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Posted: 27th Dec 2014 03:14 Edited at: 27th Dec 2014 03:18
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Quote: "I downloaded from steam onto my Windows 8 Ultrabook and i get a missing dx sound bug when i run my app. Looks very unprofessional to me for it not to install all the necessary dll's on a target platform. Really it should use a sound system that works on any Windows version. This is pretty important for users who don't know how to build an installer that can install the necessary dll's when they are missing (most new programmers). It shouldn't happen anyway in my opinion and could get you some bad steam reviews."


That's likely on your end. I have installed AppGameKit and AGK2 as well as every other Game Creators program over the years and on several computer systems and all work just fine. Likely a driver is not installed or not installed properly or out of date on your system. Make sure the latest Direct X driver is installed and also any old Direct X drivers that AppGameKit or AGK2 may require.

Yep - that is annoying with the slashes - just noticed them on your post. It's a forum thing - the forum is automatically inserting slashes for some reason whenever you use a single quote. Funny thing is that it is not happening to me. It did happen to your quoted text, but when I edit my post no slashes are inserted, except in your quoted text. Weird.

Mike

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xCept
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Posted: 27th Dec 2014 04:26 Edited at: 27th Dec 2014 04:32
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Quote: "I downloaded from steam onto my Windows 8 Ultrabook and i get a missing dx sound bug when i run my app. Looks very unprofessional to me for it not to install all the necessary dll\'s on a target platform."


Anyone without the June 2010 DirectX runtime libraries installed, which includes all vanilla Windows 8+ installs, will receive the xaudio error on AppGameKit and any apps compiled through it. TGC is using XAudio 2.7 to retain XP support, but that version is no longer shipped with the default Windows 8 DirectX packages.

This is very simple to fix on TGC's end for the AppGameKit installer and anyone else who wishes to create installer packages for AGK-based desktop apps. I did this recently with a desktop app I deployed. You simply have to include the minimum required DirectX files from the DirectX SDK [DSETUP.dll, dsetup32.dll, DXSETUP.exe, dxupdate.cab, Jun2010_XAUDIO_x86.cab] and allow the installer to silently install them alongside the app. This only adds about 2.5MB overhead to your application and adheres to Microsoft's redistributable guidelines; then users will have no trouble running the app.

I haven't yet installed the Steam version but you are right, the necessary DLLs should definitely be part of the installer.
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bjadams
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Posted: 28th Dec 2014 16:02
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why not just get rid of the XAudio 2.7 dll dependency?
that would make things simpler for everyone

i liked AppGameKit v1 because there were no dependencies and using 3rd party tools i could make 1 exe for my game. Now with this dependency things are complicated
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JimHawkins
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Posted: 28th Dec 2014 21:13
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There are always dependencies. OGL version, for example?

-- Jim - When is there going to be a release?
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baxslash
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Posted: 28th Dec 2014 23:23
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Dependencies are fine when you know what they are and how to deal with them. I can build an installer if I know what the dependencies are but a lot of new programers don't know there's a problem until someone tries to play their game and leaves a bad review. DBPro suffered from a lot of ambiguity on this subject. If AppGameKit can give us a simple list of required dlls that are not built into the executable I think that would be fine.
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Alien Menace
AGK Developer
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Posted: 31st Dec 2014 05:43
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Any updates?

Apps published: 4
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MikeHart
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Posted: 31st Dec 2014 13:27
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Quote: "Any updates?"


This is exactly what I don't like. AGK2 was in alpha stage, the debugger was surpose to be done before the release. Then they release it on steam without it and bumm, it is a full version and the development looks like it has stopped. There are still features from the kickstarter missing!!!

Right now I am outlining my next book, this time about AGK2. But if there is dying support from TGC, then I can rather stay with my former tool and write about that.

TGC, you have some talented people in this community that try to support the product with 3rd party apps, tutorials etc. If you don't show convincing support for your own product and continue to develop it, the market for AGK2 will die off. And so the market/userbase for 3rd party supporters. And then YOUR userbase is left in the air. Don't make that mistake too like others have done before. Communication is one key here.
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JimHawkins
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Posted: 31st Dec 2014 15:53
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I think this is nonsense. There have been frequent updates. Moaning because you don't get what you want immediately is, frankly, childish.

-- Jim - When is there going to be a release?
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MikeHart
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Posted: 31st Dec 2014 17:43
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Jim, I have all I need regarding the functionality of AGK2. The debugger is just an example, I personally don't need that. What I don't have/see is an active development. That would convince me that they are still behind the product. 1 month without nothing is a lot of time when they are surpose to work on it full time. And this behaviour (dying development/support after release) I saw already 2-3 times with compatitive products.
Firstly I am not a game developer perse. I am more a 3rd party tool/support developer. I support products which I think are worthwhile. But this non-activity worries me. AGK2 is an awesome concept that has so much potential. I would hate it if it dies on its way up.
But hey, I guess I should not care. You seem to speak for everyone including TGC, which I had adressed my post directly to.
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paulrobson
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Posted: 31st Dec 2014 18:09
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I have your Monkey book, (which I like) but I was turned off Monkey for the sort of things you write about here ; specifically the post about six months ago which talked about having to get a job to earn a living, again, it's a one programmer product. Monkey is very similar in many ways to AppGameKit as a product, though it is (I think) a one man company.

Gideros has done exactly the same (it's a library with lua). Both those products have become open sourced to at least some extent.

The problem they have is all the same ; hitting Android and iOS (especially) is a moving target. APIs change and are abandoned - e.g. Google recently deep sixed the old Admob. It isn't so much the core compiler that's a problem, it's the external interface stuff IAP/Facebook/Adverts etc. and adhering to Apple (especially) endlessly changing pedantry about its 374 different icon sizes.

This is why I suggested an annual rate. I don't actually like the idea per se, I understand why others don't. But to make AppGameKit work it has to fund at least one programmer to keep it updated, or, alternatively it has to let the community do it.

Having a Kickstarter for it is a partly broken idea ; if it is to produce a new Elite or something then updates shouldn't be a big issue but they are for something like this.

Obviously there is income for sales but common sense would suggest this would start with an initial boomette and tail off to a steady state of sales.

I don't think there are a lot of bugs - the buglist on google is at about 140 and only about a dozen are actual faults, most are requests for enhancements of one sort or another. There shouldn't be, it's not the most complex language in the world, most of it is just an interface to run time libraries. The first of these is nearly a month old and hasn't been triaged yet. It's not terribly important (x as string[1] = [ "a","b" ] does not work, the dim x$ semantically equivalent does) but it is a core bug. I think the community has access to the runtime source so it could rebuild the runtime stuff (if not the IPA/APK export but I'm hazarding a guess all these do is bang things together) but the core compiler, no.

If it is just a hobbyist tool, then fine. It doesn't really matter too much.
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Naphier
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Posted: 31st Dec 2014 18:20
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I think Paul's on holiday, so we haven't heard much.
I am always back and forth on this issue... TGC has a good product and it just needs to mature. With v1 it was bugs left and right that seemed to go uncared for (not uncommon in the dev world). Now we're on to v2, most, if not all, of the bugs are gone, probably 80% of the features are in. However, it still feels like a product that has been rushed. Even after a year in development. I get frustrated when I update to a new version and have to go through and fix deprecation issues on things that have been deprecated since Android 2.3 (2010) and a FB SDK that is 2 years old. It takes me 15-20 minutes to fix all of the deprecated issues for Android, so Paul can just do this and get it done. I know the FB SDK will take a little longer and I'd do it myself, but many of the features are hard coded into the interpreter and I can't access them. I imagine it would take a day's worth of work at most. Just spend the 2 days and fix it. It will be done for another year.

Then again I look over at Unity. It's fully matured, more powerful, and extensions for this type of stuff are relatively inexpensive and kept up to date by their individual publishers. This is why I push AppGameKit to adopt a 3rd party plugin system. However, it's not designed for this and I know the road will be long if they choose to adopt this. So... just spend a day and fix what's in there!

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JimHawkins
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Posted: 31st Dec 2014 19:01
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The last update was on Dec 16th, which was 15 days ago. That 15 days includes Christmas. How Mike equates that to "one month with nothing" totally escapes my arithmetic.

Plugins are not necessarily the magic bullet that some think they are because plugin programmers are much more likely to go away and do nothing than core developers. Then there's Apple to take into account. You may not have libraries on iOS. That's not an issue for Tier2 and Pascal, but for T1 the stuff has to be built into the compiler and interpreter in some way and be accessible from Basic.

I think that the rate of progress recently has been very good.

So I'd like to wish Paul, the others in TGC, and you, a very happy new year, in which I am sure great things will happen to and with AGK.

-- Jim - When is there going to be a release?
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paulrobson
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Posted: 31st Dec 2014 20:42
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I cannot see how plugins would work. It's feasible enough in Tier 2 but in Tier 1 it would involve some sort of run time library linking across four or more platforms. I've written quite a few emulators (when it was interesting) and looking at the code it's just a bytecode emulator linked to a standard library. This makes a lot of things (e.g. the broadcast stuff) relatively straightforward to implement. Adding plugins would break the stability of the basic design.

I'd like to see a few more things added ; some sort of string search / simple regex or something would be useful for example.It would be quite nice to have some sort of indirect code transfer of some sort so you could implement a sort of polymorphism ; you can do it with case statements at present of course.
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Naphier
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Posted: 31st Dec 2014 20:48
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I'm thinking of plugins of the sense like what Unity does. They aren't dlls, but more like extensions. They modify the java / obj c as well as provide scripts for interfacing with those. Most of it is pretty straightforward, modify the manifest/info.plist add some extra classes to interface with. Works really well and allows developers to build 3rd party functionality like FB, twitter, native sharing, IAP for alternative stores, push messaging, etc. But it doesn't matter. TGC will never get to this point. So they just need to update the 3rd party SDKs they use.

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gwheycs62egydws
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Posted: 31st Dec 2014 21:00
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i thought i would pop in a though

unlike DB and DBP
AGK 1 and 2 were meant to cover more than just the pc

so dll are not very good at covering other operating systems

java would be the way to go for building 3rd party plugin's
too bad java apples are not native to android for one
as for black Berry or apple .. i have know idea how they deal with
things like dll's

i know people want to protect there work on there additions
so there has to be some way .. not that i currently know how exacly

some one had said the work on this has been slow
well since they are starting from near scratch
it will take time to make shire the basics are working
correctly before any other part's can be added

Im shire DB and DBP went though the same things

to move side ways - is to move forward
Since a Strait line gets thin fast
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JimHawkins
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Posted: 31st Dec 2014 22:49
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It seems to me that all the social media and app service sites are reached via HTTP or HTTPS calls. There should be no need for these to be in the core library at all. If the AppGameKit web interfaces are not adequate THAT should be the focus. Updates could then be as simple as a #include to a source file.

That is future-proof.

Cute extensions to the graphics or audio engine are entirely another matter. They could be handled if AppGameKit had a low-level pass-through to the OGL or DX subsystems it's using. In many cases these can be handled with a flexible string parameter interface.

It's also the case that many plugins could be implemented in Lua. I accept that new programmers will not want to learn Lua - but it's not their job to write plugins, and given some easy-to-use interfaces it should not be hard.

-- Jim - When is there going to be a release?
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Naphier
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Posted: 31st Dec 2014 23:28
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@Jim that's not correct. You need to interface through FB via their SDK. Same thing with iOS Game Center, Google Play Game services, etc. I think twitter has an HTTP API, but that's about it.

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JimHawkins
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Posted: 1st Jan 2015 00:10 Edited at: 1st Jan 2015 00:16
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So how do you access web services?

Just looked at Facebook API. They are all HTTP actions.

-- Jim - When is there going to be a release?
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Naphier
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Posted: 1st Jan 2015 00:48
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That doesn't work through android and iOS. If you know of a way I know many developers that would love to skip the FB SDK.

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Kezzla
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Posted: 1st Jan 2015 15:21
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I figure he is on Chrissy break. We all deserve a break. Come back fresh and ready to tackle the next tasks.

To Err is Human...
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MikeHart
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Posted: 1st Jan 2015 17:51 Edited at: 1st Jan 2015 17:55
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Quote: "The last update was on Dec 16th, which was 15 days ago."


Quote: "AGK V2.0.10 Released
4th December"


Jim, the first page says 4th december. That makes basically 4 weeks/ a month. Do you wanna ague now what makes a month or so?

Were did you see the 16th?

EDIT: I see now, the Linux beta version on the 17th.
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RickV
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Posted: 1st Jan 2015 23:25
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Hi guys,

We'll be back in full development production from Monday next week! Paul worked most of 2014 without many breaks and so I made sure he took a lot of time off once we had the Steam release out. He'll be back fully re-charged, ready to take AppGameKit to the next level! Remember that he also managed to knock out a build for Linux, a template for the new Visual Studio Community edition and screen shots (F12) for steam users.

You will not be disappointed, we have great plans for 2015!

Rick

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Alien Menace
AGK Developer
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Posted: 2nd Jan 2015 02:33
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Thanks for the update Rick.

Apps published: 4
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Clonkex
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Posted: 2nd Jan 2015 14:00 Edited at: 2nd Jan 2015 14:01
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Indeed, 'tis good to see Rick posting updates for us

Rick, since you're clearly reading this thread, let me make a suggestion: Make a new post every time you update AppGameKit!! This is SO important! What I mean is, instead of only editing the first post when you make an update, also post the update as a new post. Don't change how you edit the first post; the formatting on the first post is great! All you have to do is copy-paste and hit Post Message on the part you added most recently. For example, one of your new posts may look like this (without the quote, obviously):

Quote: "17th September
Alpha 6 Released!

* Broadcasting now supported on Mac
* Export to Android APK on Windows and Mac
* Export to IPA on Mac
* New sensor commands on iOS and Android
* GPS support on all platforms (where available)"


And that's all you need! The problem with only editing the first post is that no one gets an email notification for it, and thus most people never notice the update. As it is, we can only know if there's been an update by manually checking the thread periodically. Make this a new-year's resolution


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gwheycs62egydws
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Posted: 2nd Jan 2015 23:23
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@Clonkex

just a tiny amendment to your though on the updating

for silly sake of though

he dose the addition to the binging post
and then puts in a simple "There is a update to the start post"

then people go and look

there is going to be some growing pains with this
every one should expect such

people just have to wait for new features to happen
I'm glad the wording is similar to DBP
so it makes the learning curve easier

to move side ways - is to move forward
Since a Strait line gets thin fast
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Naphier
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Posted: 2nd Jan 2015 23:27
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A few of us have asked Rick and Paul for this to be used for quite some time. Fortunately I've caught most of the updates because someone else catches it and makes a reply post about it.

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Clonkex
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Posted: 3rd Jan 2015 07:49
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Quote: "he dose the addition to the binging post
and then puts in a simple "There is a update to the start post" "


Really? Because I have yet to see one of these posts. (If I'm wrong and Rick has been posting these, please correct me - but with proof )


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RickV
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Posted: 3rd Jan 2015 12:27
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Hi,

I would like to create a proper blog on the main site too, it's on the to do list!

Rick

Development Director
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Alien Menace
AGK Developer
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Posted: 14th Jan 2015 06:18
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So, is a status update about what is being worked on right now going to be posted anytime soon?

Apps published: 4
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SoftMotion3D
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Posted: 16th Jan 2015 18:07 Edited at: 16th Jan 2015 22:46
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hopefully fixing the load time of 3d objects.... something has changed that has dragged it way...way ...beyond usable down if you want to load a decient sized scene. im pushing 85 seconds just to load 35 models into place and they are not even complicated ones that load in a second or so from agkv1....even worse it takes 255 seconds to load the same thing on blackberry.

oddly mac loads it in just 12 seconds.

my mac is a much lower spec pc then my windows machine....so something is seriously wrong



edit:
Quote: "Quote: "he dose the addition to the binging post
and then puts in a simple "There is a update to the start post" "

Really? Because I have yet to see one of these posts. (If I'm wrong and Rick has been posting these, please correct me - but with proof )"


haha... clonkex...did you even read that post or skim it? To me resourceful has said that this is what should be done.

so no it has not been done.

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Clonkex
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Posted: 17th Jan 2015 06:22
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Quote: "haha... clonkex...did you even read that post or skim it? To me resourceful has said that this is what should be done."


I skimmed it, but I just went back and read it carefully. It still sounds to be like he's saying that's what Rick already does, but unfortunately Resourceful's English is a tad confusing sometimes (no offence intended, Resourceful - as I understand it, English isn't your native language, so it's perfectly acceptable to be a little difficult to understand )


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gwheycs62egydws
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Posted: 17th Jan 2015 17:48
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@Clonkex

i try my best to explain something

nun taken Clonkex

and just to let you know English is my only Language

to move side ways - is to move forward
Since a Strait line gets thin fast
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baxslash
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Posted: 19th Jan 2015 10:23
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I am getting a very strange bug... When I use this line:
i = GetImage(0, 0, DeviceWidth, DeviceHeight)

I get a runtime error: "Error: Sprite 0 does not exist in baxslash_engine/display.agc at line 152"

If I comment that line out I don't get the error.

Paul, any ideas why that might be or has anyone else had an issue with this command?


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JimHawkins
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Posted: 19th Jan 2015 11:22
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Isn't zero an illegal image ID?

Onwards and sometimes upwards
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baxslash
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I'm not passing it the id there, I is the returned id. 0, 0 is the top left corner and the rest is width and height to grab.


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JimHawkins
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Posted: 19th Jan 2015 13:45
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Is i declared as an integer?

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baxslash
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Implicitly yes, and that's enough for this exact code to work fine in another part of my code. The point is that the error doesn't match the line of code. It's saying "Sprite 0 does not exist" when it's dealing with a line that has nothing to do with sprites!


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CJB
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Posted: 19th Jan 2015 15:56 Edited at: 19th Jan 2015 15:58
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Does this get called before anything is drawn to the backbuffer? Try putting a Sync (or Swap if you're doing it that way) before that line to see if that makes any difference.

EDIT: I just did a quick test by doing a GetImage before a Sync, and it didn't throw an error, so it's not that. :s

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