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Program Announcements / Multisync 0.1 - Multiplayer plugin for DarkBASIC Professional

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Benjamin
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Posted: 6th May 2005 03:29 Edited at: 6th May 2005 03:30
Nah it should be fine; it was just to make it easier on people with lower speed connections.


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Skeletor
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Posted: 6th May 2005 07:17
Okay cool!, I forgot to mention in my post above how great the Multisync functions are! Also If you would like me to post a example of how to use the Multisync in a game, I created a Online version of pong and would be willing to post the code with comments.

Anyhow, I plan to start making all my games have some sort of multi player aspect to them now that I know how multi player works (sort of). Thanks again for such a great .dll(?).


created by "Lord ShitNipple"
Benjamin
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Posted: 6th May 2005 21:33
Quote: "I forgot to mention in my post above how great the Multisync functions are!"

Thanks, I'm glad you like them.

Quote: "Also If you would like me to post a example of how to use the Multisync in a game, I created a Online version of pong and would be willing to post the code with comments."

Perhaps you could put it in the codebase?

Quote: "Thanks again for such a great .dll(?)."

Your welcome. Yeah, its a .dll


"Lets migrate like bricks" - Me
Peter H
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Posted: 6th May 2005 22:35
Yeah, please post here with a link to it in the codebase! Because i never go there

And i'd really be interested in looking at it...

"We make the worst games in the universe."

Alkaline
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Posted: 16th May 2005 08:37 Edited at: 16th May 2005 09:21
hey when ever i try to get some one to join the host...the host recives 2 packets and then the person that try to join exits the game completly.

Edit: Dont Worry i fixed it, it wasnt the dll it was in my inability to code right

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Philip
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Posted: 19th May 2005 06:26
This is an encouragement post. I haven't used this dll yet but it looks absolutely great. Keep up the great work Mr. Benjamin.

Philip

Cheer if you like bears! Cheer if you like jam sandwiches!
P3.2ghz / 1 gig / GeForce FX 5900 128meg / WinXP home
Benjamin
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Posted: 19th May 2005 11:32
Thank you Philip


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Megaton Cat
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Posted: 25th May 2005 02:19 Edited at: 25th May 2005 02:19
Thy website is complete Master Goose.

When is the new version of Multisync coming out?

It's M-E-G-A-T-O-N. NOT MEGATRON.
DON'T MAKE ME GET THE RABBIT.
Angel Lazerus
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Posted: 25th May 2005 06:44
Hi Benjamin,

Is there any more news on multisync or any other projects your working on?

Its a brilliant tool to use. thankyou for your efforts.



"Ill get a propper sig soon. LOL"
Benjamin
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Posted: 25th May 2005 10:07
Quote: " Thy website is complete Master Goose. "

Are you serious? Anyway, sorry I wasn't online today, I've been cleaning the pool and stuff. How goes the level?

Quote: "Is there any more news on multisync or any other projects your working on?"

Multisync is on the backburner for a bit, while I work on my current project, which is a multiplayer plugin itself. Its for peer-to-peer games and it should be pretty good when its done. Something I'm particularly excited about is its ability to connect to a server, download a list of sessions(games), and then let the player choose which to join, without typing in any IP address or port number.


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SageTech
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Posted: 25th May 2005 16:49
Quote: "Something I'm particularly excited about is its ability to connect to a server, download a list of sessions(games), and then let the player choose which to join, without typing in any IP address or port number."


You are briliant! Thats whats ive wanted ever since I laid eyes upon Darkbasic. So Im following in the other users in saying, Thanks for the superb plugin Ben. Ive already used multisync in my new game Mayor.

Sagetech forums currently down
Keaz
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Posted: 22nd Jun 2005 07:10
You could do that already just let them make a name for there "session" and store the ip with it and then they click on or type the name without need to see the ip.

Breaking Stuff=Fun!,Bug Testing<>Fun!, Bug Testing=Breaking Stuff, so...
Bug Testing=Fun! Hmmmm....
DOES NOT COMPUTE! SYSTEM MALFUNTION!
Baggers
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Posted: 23rd Jun 2005 02:11
Hi Benjamin,
Im just starting to look into this plugin and it looks fantastic !...well done on keeping the command count low, it really helps the learning curve .
My question is regarding the IP address...Ive read this entire thread now and noticed that at the beginning many people were having problems with connecting behind routers and such and you suggested forwarding the data incoming on port 3999 to the host's IP on the network. However more recently there have been very few of these questions...havnt you fixed this problem or are people (gasp !) finding the answers themselves ?
Also do clients get the same problems if behind routers?
Obviously it feels slightly unprofession in games if it says
"If your having problems connecting then try setting these things up yourself"
As not everyone is that computer literate.
Is there a solution to this also ?

Sorry I havnt been able to test these queries out myself , it is slightly hipocritical and i hope to be able to run some good tests in a week or two.

Look forward to your reply
Thanks

Benjamin
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Posted: 23rd Jun 2005 07:44 Edited at: 23rd Jun 2005 07:48
The concept of connecting/hosting from behind a router isn't extremely complicated, although I am not an expert on the subject. From what I believe, you are meant to host using your computer's address within the private network, then clients connect using the internet address of your router(port forwarding needs set up of course). However, port forwarding will not work for clients at the moment because the local port number for clients is random(I allow Winsock to choose it automatically).

I hope my theory about why clients couldn't connect is true, because it means that problem is out in the light and it will not be a problem in future developments.

Typically in Winsock you choose the IP you wish to 'host' on, meaning you can accept connections with any valid address(private IP, internet IP, loopback, etc), and you will only get connections from people who have entered that particular IP. This means if you use the loopback address(127.0.0.1) only clients on the same machine will be able to connect. I am not 100% sure how Winsock chooses the IP to use when it does it automatically, but I guess it just chooses the main interface - this being your private address if behind a router, or your internet address if directly connected).

As for keeping things simple for the less literate computer users, its not really so complicated that it would stop them doing it. I mean, why have a router if you don't know how to use it? Although I know, that isn't the best stance to have on things, some people don't have a choice afterall. I have been thinking how I can make it simpler though. I don't think there is a way to tell the router to enable port forwarding from within an application on the computer, which is why port numbers should be within a set range(so you know which port numbers to enable).

I haven't got any plans for changing Multisync in its current state, as soon enough I will hopefully be rewriting it from scratch. My project at the moment if a peer-to-peer plugin that uses better methods and it corrects what should have been done in Multisync. For instance, it allows you to select the port and address to 'host' on(I am talking about clients here, not the hosts themselves!). Its much more flexible, and so I will rewrite Multisync when I have the time because I can do it much better now that I know a lot more.

What do you want multiplayer functionality for? If its something like your Jazz Jackrabbit project (which I would love to see a multiplayer co-op mode in!) then I would suggest using my new plugin, as its more designed for those sort of games.


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Baggers
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Posted: 23rd Jun 2005 08:32
Actualy yes I am looking into making Jazz multiplayer, should be great...damn hard to code it to run well but great.
Quote: "which I would love to see a multiplayer co-op mode in!"

Hehe if all goes well your wish could come through...thing is im on such a time budget now im so close to leaving the country that I really dont have much option other than MultiSync...unless you want be to beta test your current project ( nudge nudge, wink wink, say no more!)

Im learning stuff as fast as I can. Ive looked into the basics of php and mysql and understand all i need for that (Thanks JonnyRee !) so that I can sort out all login and password detail as well as handling updates, mods and currently online games.
So obviouslt im now looking into the actual game side and as im new to the web stuff I came sraight here.
Your right the users can sort out their own routers, i'll just give them a message window if their connection fails.

Quote: "However, port forwarding will not work for clients at the moment because the local port number for clients is random"

Does this mean that as i'm behind a router that I cant host (sorry im being dense I just hoping it doesnt I guess !) as before you were saying the port was 3999.

Thanks for your time man, I really apprietiate this work your doing.
Hope to hear from you soon.

Benjamin
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Posted: 23rd Jun 2005 11:06
Quote: "sorry im being dense"

Damnit I wish I could remember what doc says to marty in back to the future when marty kept using the word 'heavy' . Great movie..

Quote: "Does this mean that as i'm behind a router that I cant host "
You can host fine as long as you forward port 3999. Clients behind routers won't be able to connect to you unless they enable just about every port or make a lucky guess.

Quote: "unless you want be to beta test your current project ( nudge nudge, wink wink, say no more!)"

Sure. I'm just trying to iron out a certain bug at the moment that Hamish is having with it.


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Baggers
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Posted: 23rd Jun 2005 11:50 Edited at: 23rd Jun 2005 12:49
Sweet !...wow slightly unexpected, my email is under the gap where my sig should be. Thanks man, im not going to need it for a couple of weeks anyway.

[EDIT]

Oh and regarding Back to the Future quotes.

================

Marty: This sounds pretty heavy.
Doc: Weight has nothing to do with it.


================

Marty: Whoa, this is heavy.
Doc: There's that word again, heavy. Why are things so heavy in the future? Is there a problem with the Earth's gravitational pull?


================

Marty: (v.o) Yeah, this could get heavy Doc.
Doc: (mutters to himself) Heavy, heavy. (w.t) Whatever happens, you must not let your other self see you. The consequences could be disastrous.


================

And my personal favourite, in bttf 3

Marty: Great Scott!
Doc: I know, this is heavy.



God those movies were fantastic !

XGoDSouL
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Posted: 29th Jun 2005 14:10 Edited at: 29th Jun 2005 14:11
Lol Back to the future rocks

Sorry to bother you with some *bugs* (well, I think that they're =) )
If you send bigs packets, everything seems fine, but if you send tons of little packets, it's seems that not all of them are received.
Here's the proof :

Here's a little code I did fast, perhaps there's a problem in the code, but anyway. (Run the same code twice, once for the Server, the second will act as client)
In this case, every packet is safely delivered
but if you remove the wait 100, like this (sorry for the long code again):

well, approximatively 25 packets out of the 100 sent are received... as output.txt reported it
Another fact :
I've checked with NetLimiter the amout of bytes sent by *this* program...
Either way is giving 0,29kb, so I think it's sending properly all these little packets...
Let me know if there's a workaround or some advices, or explanations, about this?

Btw i have the last version of MultiSync (0.5.1)
Oh, and, I know that this example is pretty excessive, there's no way someone will send that amount of data in such a small time, but it's only to show you that for exemple (my problem ), if I want to send position X,Y,Z in my game, and send another packet at the same time containing, for example, the input of someone's chat...
I can end up doing a big packet, but little packets are less anoying to program
wh1sp3r
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Posted: 1st Jul 2005 17:54


I send only one float ..
I have 0.5.2 version
I have server .. and one klient .. ok, works, but when i connect second klient ... it show me this error ..

i have 5 frames delay to send next data
Iam using stack.

PS: Real programmers aren't afraid of math!.

☺☺ AthlonXP 2500+, Ati Radeon 9600 128MB, dualDDR 512MB 400Mhz CL3.0, SB LIVE!, monitor 19" ☺☺
Benjamin
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Posted: 1st Jul 2005 20:16
@XGoDSouL: I'll get back to you on that one.

@general: I need to see some code otherwise I can't work out what is wrong.


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wh1sp3r
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Posted: 1st Jul 2005 21:46
For server:


For client:


for server and one client work, but when i connect second client .. server fail.

PS: Real programmers aren't afraid of math!.

☺☺ AthlonXP 2500+, Ati Radeon 9600 128MB, dualDDR 512MB 400Mhz CL3.0, SB LIVE!, monitor 19" ☺☺
Baggers
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Posted: 1st Jul 2005 22:01
Hi Ben, did you get my email ?

Benjamin
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2005 22:25 Edited at: 2nd Jul 2005 22:28
@Baggers: Replied.

@general: I think the problem is that when a second client joins, it sends data but you never read the data and therefore the buffer overflows. What you need to do is check to see if you have received data from any player, whether you think they have connected or not. Try changing the receive function in your server code to this:




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Benjamin
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Posted: 3rd Jul 2005 10:02
Baggers, something seems to be wrong. The e-mail won't send to your gmail account(I'm using hotmail). Any other address I can send it to?


"Lets migrate like bricks" - Me
Alkaline
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Posted: 3rd Jul 2005 12:49
i have a question..if i wanted to make a dedicated server for my multi part of my game...how would i get a float from one computer and send it to another?

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Baggers
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Posted: 3rd Jul 2005 19:16
Sorry about that, try kingcheese@hotmail.com

Benjamin
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Posted: 3rd Jul 2005 21:23
Quote: "i have a question..if i wanted to make a dedicated server for my multi part of my game...how would i get a float from one computer and send it to another?"


I'm not sure what you mean by this. Do you mean like having one computer run as a sub-server and have it pass data to a master server?


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Baggers
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Posted: 3rd Jul 2005 21:54
Hmm your email hasnt arived, hope that account isnt broken too !

Benjamin
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Posted: 3rd Jul 2005 22:23
Well, it hasn't failed yet on this end so lets just see what happens. Sometimes they do take a while to send.


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Baggers
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Posted: 3rd Jul 2005 22:41
Hi Ben, you have mail
(I had recieved the file)
Thanks a million man

wh1sp3r
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Posted: 3rd Jul 2005 22:46 Edited at: 3rd Jul 2005 22:55
to: Benjamin

Yes, it was by overflow. I set bigger delay to sending data, and it works. I sended data every 5 frames. now i set 100, but this is slow

PS: Real programmers aren't afraid of math!.

☺☺ AthlonXP 2500+, Ati Radeon 9600 128MB, dualDDR 512MB 400Mhz CL3.0, SB LIVE!, monitor 19" ☺☺
wh1sp3r
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Posted: 3rd Jul 2005 23:11
Why is so slow ? It can be, that i have run 3 clients and server on one pc ? :-P

PS: Real programmers aren't afraid of math!.

☺☺ AthlonXP 2500+, Ati Radeon 9600 128MB, dualDDR 512MB 400Mhz CL3.0, SB LIVE!, monitor 19" ☺☺
Benjamin
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Posted: 3rd Jul 2005 23:43 Edited at: 3rd Jul 2005 23:43
Yeah maybe general. Hang on a sec, I've just realised that in your code you don't actually update the screen yourself, meaning that the data probably wouldn't be sent once every 5 frames, but a load faster. I would suggest using timer based delays between sending data.

By the way, did the edited code work properly for you?


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wh1sp3r
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Posted: 4th Jul 2005 07:51
to: Benjamin
So, I paste your network to my project ... server loads models, level and wait for players ... klient load level and models and join .. i send areceive data every 60 frames (i testing only, because ...... you see ) no data transfered .. i dont understand why.

Server sends to one klient 5 floats and receive 1 float.
I think, that i have code right, because, first, i testing only on clear network code, and it works, but when i paste newtwork code to my project ... not work ...hm :o)

PS: Real programmers aren't afraid of math!.

☺☺ AthlonXP 2500+, Ati Radeon 9600 128MB, dualDDR 512MB 400Mhz CL3.0, SB LIVE!, monitor 19" ☺☺
Benjamin
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Posted: 4th Jul 2005 08:51
Try using your old code again, and see what happens.


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Baggers
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Posted: 4th Jul 2005 09:40
Wow Ben your a star ! how do you consistantly make such complex subjects so simple to code ?!
Only one question about the project and thats what is the point of global computer ID names when they arnt used in any commands ?
Thanks again man

Benjamin
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Posted: 4th Jul 2005 10:02 Edited at: 4th Jul 2005 10:05
Quote: "how do you consistantly make such complex subjects so simple to code ?!"

Magic! Anyway...

The point of global IDs is that you can transfer data to a player regarding another player, and send the global ID with the data so they know which player it is that the data regards. The receiver then uses a function to translate that global ID into a local ID that can be used in other functions.

As to why global IDs exist, its the way new players connect with all existing players. Because of how it is, the player numbers may vary on different systems. For instance, two players may be joining at the same time, and instead of taking the connecting in turns(which could only be a matter of chance) one of them might decide to jump ahead and connect to other players before them. This would mean that to the other players, the two newly joined players would appear to be different numbers. With a global ID system it means the local player numbers don't matter, as everyone sees global IDs the same. I think it would be possible to adapt the system to only use global IDs, which means no translaton would be necessary, however I think there may be possible problems with this, so I'm not yet going to change it.

I'm sure theres some other reason for global IDs, but I'm too tired to remember right now. Must... sleeeep


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Baggers
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Posted: 4th Jul 2005 11:36
Thanks, makes much more sence now !

wh1sp3r
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Posted: 5th Jul 2005 00:13
hmm. not work ... i try send only one flaot .. nothing .. but client is connected to server .. but no data received/sended . So, what i can do .. i have to use old dbpro commands.

PS: Real programmers aren't afraid of math!.

☺☺ AthlonXP 2500+, Ati Radeon 9600 128MB, dualDDR 512MB 400Mhz CL3.0, SB LIVE!, monitor 19" ☺☺
wh1sp3r
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Posted: 5th Jul 2005 20:14 Edited at: 5th Jul 2005 20:20
2Benjamin: Hej, ok, it work .. i found error. Server used stack.. but in client script i forgot wrote.

Your multiplayer work over internet ? over router ?

EDIT: Hej, how many packet/second is good for internet?
In my packet are 6 floats. My program sends 65 packet/s

PS: Real programmers aren't afraid of math!.

☺☺ AthlonXP 2500+, Ati Radeon 9600 128MB, dualDDR 512MB 400Mhz CL3.0, SB LIVE!, monitor 19" ☺☺
Benjamin
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Posted: 5th Jul 2005 21:24 Edited at: 5th Jul 2005 21:27
Quote: "
Your multiplayer work over internet ? over router ?"

Yes, but in order for it to work when using a router you'll have to set port forwarding for ports 3998 and 3999.

Quote: "Hej, how many packet/second is good for internet?"

It depends on your connection speed, and how many bytes you are sending per packet. Really if you use some method to smooth movement out(many games use some kind of prediction) then the packet per second rate doesn't need to be too high. 10 per second would be good I think.

Remember that you should put as much in one packet as possible(because its quicker to send one big one than two small ones).


"Lets migrate like bricks" - Me
wh1sp3r
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Posted: 5th Jul 2005 21:32
how set on router port forwarding? too many user havent access to router.

PS: Real programmers aren't afraid of math!.

☺☺ AthlonXP 2500+, Ati Radeon 9600 128MB, dualDDR 512MB 400Mhz CL3.0, SB LIVE!, monitor 19" ☺☺
wh1sp3r
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Posted: 5th Jul 2005 22:12
I have next question! ..
I make server .. server is running ... and now, i connect player .. nothing...

I make server and set that server wait for player .. when player connect, all works .. when i disconnetc player and connect again to server ... receive/sending not work .. :o) why ?

PS: Real programmers aren't afraid of math!.

☺☺ AthlonXP 2500+, Ati Radeon 9600 128MB, dualDDR 512MB 400Mhz CL3.0, SB LIVE!, monitor 19" ☺☺
Benjamin
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Posted: 5th Jul 2005 22:22 Edited at: 5th Jul 2005 22:27
I think its slightly different depending on which router you use.

Try this site http://www.portforward.com/routers.htm. Click on the router you use to find an explanation on how you set up port forwarding.

Quote: "I make server and set that server wait for player .. when player connect, all works .. when i disconnetc player and connect again to server ... receive/sending not work .. :o) why ?"

It could be a bug in Multisync, but then again it could be a bug in your code. I'll test Multisync later to see if I can reproduce the bug.


"Lets migrate like bricks" - Me
wh1sp3r
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Posted: 6th Jul 2005 02:29
Benjamin: i havent access to router and many users too, i think, because, i have WIFI in flat from airnet company.

I dont understand. For example .. Halflife works on internet fine and others game but multiplayer, which i want run in dbpro no ?

PS: Real programmers aren't afraid of math!.

☺☺ AthlonXP 2500+, Ati Radeon 9600 128MB, dualDDR 512MB 400Mhz CL3.0, SB LIVE!, monitor 19" ☺☺
Benjamin
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Posted: 6th Jul 2005 02:51
Ok. Is it hosting that doesn't work, or joining, or both?


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wh1sp3r
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Posted: 6th Jul 2005 04:39
Iam hosting and wait for player ! ... when player connected, multiplayer start .. trasfer work .. Now, player left and connect again ... (player is connected) transfer not work.

PS: Real programmers aren't afraid of math!.

☺☺ AthlonXP 2500+, Ati Radeon 9600 128MB, dualDDR 512MB 400Mhz CL3.0, SB LIVE!, monitor 19" ☺☺
XGoDSouL
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Posted: 15th Jul 2005 01:29
Benjamin, did you got any informations on my issue??
I can work around it by sending *massives* packets, like all my infos.
Benjamin
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Posted: 15th Jul 2005 01:36
I've been working on it. I need to test something with you to try and see what exactly it is that makes it happen, so I'll e-mail you either tonight or tomorrow.


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dark coder
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Posted: 23rd Jul 2005 05:55
hey, since you apparently never some on msn

i noticed in your code examples when you add chars,floats etc to a message ie,



on the code to recieve it the packet is in reverse


does the recieving packet have to be written in reverse? as it makes things more tricky that way especially with big packets.


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