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FPSC Classic Product Chat / [LOCKED] Riker 9 FPS Creator Update

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Lost in Thought
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Posted: 16th Feb 2006 01:29
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The only good way to increase the FPS in FPSC now would be a total re-write as said. You would have to break each limb up into it's own object and use exclude object instead of hide limb. It would indeed not be worth doing this as it would be easier and better to just write your own mapping prog and your own engine. At least then you would have access to change your mapping progs' code.

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uman
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Posted: 16th Feb 2006 01:41
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Lost in Thought,

Not sure if you are responding to me but whatever it takes it should be down to TGC to do it - if it requires a total re-write of the engine then thats what TGC should do.

I have had my say on this.

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Lost in Thought
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Posted: 16th Feb 2006 04:18
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Yeah I think they should too. I was just showing my agreement with CB in regards to his Riker 9 work.

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Benjamin A
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Posted: 16th Feb 2006 15:16
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One thing I don't get.... CB has claimed a number of times that he was able to produce really high framerates with Riker 9 and now it looks like we will not see an improvement of framerates at all. I'm confused.

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uman
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Posted: 16th Feb 2006 15:45
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I think some theory suggested that given that the culling prob could be fixed which was perhaps thought to be achieveable given some help from TGC a frame rate increase of 70% might be possible. Thats how I undersstood some thinking to be.

Not sure fps speed increase was ever actually seen and given there apparently wont be any help from TGC perhaps it wont be. It seems perhaps not.

Still I am sure Riker9 may still provide for some much needed improvements or additions which we dont know that we can rely on TGC to give us so I do hope that cellblock continues his work and does not feel too disheartened. I am sure we all appreciate what he is trying to do for the benefit of the community.

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Vlad
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Posted: 16th Feb 2006 15:55
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If I recall correctly, the information was:

It has achieved higher (but nothing like a AAA game) FPS by taking the hardcoded FPS sync command.
It can be much higher (the 70% uman mentioned) with the culling problem solved.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

The only lazy people that can complete games are genius. You don't look like a genius, so you better stop being lazy.
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Les Horribres
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Posted: 16th Feb 2006 21:11
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As I recall. CB said that FPSC rendered all polys around the plr, and that you only see 30% of the rendered polys. Improved FPS was seen with the release of the standard model runner thingy.

Now, factors such as enemys, slowdown FPS for the soul reason of... PlrCanBeSeen.
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Lost in Thought
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Posted: 16th Feb 2006 22:24
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Here is the problem. With simple levels you can have way higher frame rates by cleaning up his entity code. However for levels with alot of static objects (turned into limbs of the main universe dbo), the culling is useless because of the bug. If you have dynamic objects in place of the static ones then the culling can help out alot, but then the physics slows you back down. It is a lose, lose situation for anyone wanting to make very complex levels. Since he is not going to fix that bug, my only hope is that he may introduce his own limb culling into DBP. I am not holding my hopes up though, as he would have done that before releasing FPSC instead of making his own ghetto culling code.

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Les Horribres
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Posted: 16th Feb 2006 23:57
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Sounds like a job for... update man! jk.

Rewrite the physics part to actually turn off when physics is turned off, disable static entitys, and keep all entitys dynamic with physics truely off.

Of course, it would help if we had the mapediting code.
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Airslide
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Posted: 17th Feb 2006 01:34
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Cellbloc, have you gotten Multiplayer to work with a custom exe? If so, could you tell me how? I can't seem to get it to work

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Cellbloc Studios
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Posted: 17th Feb 2006 14:08
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How I got the frame rates working was with the program I distributed a little while ago, it tested you loading the universe.dbo file and it allowed you to turn culling on and off. This was fine and it seemed to work BUT when you are creating your world in FPSC, the individual segments that get built are limb based and not world based. So by me showing the entire universe.dbo model as a whole, I was able to improve the FPS quite a bit BUT running it through the FPSC engine, and having it built segment by segment, looses all the performace I was able to get.

So I have a couple of choices:
1) Re-Write the entire rendering/constructing engine using object/object and not use limbs. The advantages of this would be when the object is not on the screen, I won't render it thus increasing the FPS.
2) Wait until TGC think it is a bug and fix it (I have heard rumor this may be fixed in 6.0, but it is a rumor)
3) Just go about the changes that I have now and be done with it, but with the loss in FPS, I don't think it is worth it.
4) Say "$@#$" it and build my own engine from bottom up using the FPSC Editor and give the damn thing to TGC as a gift for a year supply of Mountain Dew and Strawberry Frosted Pop Tarts.

-This...is my boomstick!
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Pulsar Coder
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Posted: 17th Feb 2006 16:29 Edited at: 17th Feb 2006 16:40
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If you choose to re-write it from scratch consider the following:

1) Use of one of the available dlls that deals with scripting (Unity or Darkscript),
2) Use "Nuclear Glory" dll for collisions (v4 looks promising).

Also, if you still have to deal with limbs there was a dll somewhere in these forums that handled limbs.
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Cellbloc Studios
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Posted: 17th Feb 2006 21:19
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Yeah, I think Sparky had some code that handled my issue. Didn't want to go that route, but if I must I must.

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uman
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Posted: 17th Feb 2006 22:36
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Quote: "If you have dynamic objects in place of the static ones then the culling can help out alot, but then the physics slows you back down."


Thats a very intereting piece of information and one which seems to be well bourne out by the methods I have found to optimise my levels.

Many of the dynamic objects I use are indeed dynamic but dont have physics turned on - Physics I only employ when absolutely necessary. It would be interesting to further the testing I am doing and make more "world" objects as Dymanic without physics applied and see if that helps further. I am still testing and developing means of loading and unloading objects on the fly too which is helping things along in the fps stakes. Characters and explosive boxes and other dynamic entities for instance I now spawn via triggers on player approach to an area or other means and am starting to set up in their script files commmands to remove them all completely once not needed or unseen.

Merranvos ref to plrcanbeseen is also interesting and thats something I will look at further with ref to fps.

None of this of course is the real answer to low fps as it relates to culling and this thread but it sure can help promote better fps and gameplay speeds even if culling was working properly.

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uman
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Posted: 18th Feb 2006 21:37 Edited at: 18th Feb 2006 21:39
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This is for Cellbloc Studios, anyone else working on Riker9 and anyone else also working with the source code.

With regard to my communications with TGC concerning an .fpi script limit. Lee Bamber has confirmed to me that there is indeed a fixed limit currently of 200 scripts in the arrays and that will be fixed in the next update of FPSC to a limit of 2000 in the arrays and furthermore that this new limit will be upwards expandable.

This is good news for all if for no other reason than it confirms that TGC are aware of bugs and issues and are working towards a fix for them. Now you have it from the horses mouth - so partience will be required in awaiting for the FPSC update. (read Lees reply below).

Below (at end)I enclose the complete transcript of the reply recieved from Lee Bamber which contains technical details relating to the .fpi scipt limit and how to overcome it in source.

Anyone working with Riker9 or the source might want to take this into account and include this in their work so that any Update additional too or outside of a TGC Update will also accommodate the higher .fpi script limit to eventually match up with the official forthcoming FPSC Update and new release.

Runtime error : Relating to .fpi scipt limit

Lee Bambers reply :


*********
Hi Peter,

We are not schedule to release a new FPSC Update until we have dealt with the U6.0 release, and your issue is one we are aware of. When the FPSC bug fixing phase begins, we will be sure to seek out this bug in the forum. In the meantime, if you have access to the ability to compile the FPSC source code, these are the lines you should change:

rem AI Library List
type ailiblisttype
loaded as integer
file$ as string
desc$ as string
conditionfirst as integer
conditionlast as integer
endtype
dim ailist(200) as ailiblisttype

To something like:
dim ailist(2000) as ailiblisttype

Naturally the fix will be a proper expanding array so there will be no fixed limit for AI Scripts. Hope this helps. Spread the word!

Best Regards,
Lee.

*********

And there you have it.

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BULLSHOCK 2
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Posted: 19th Feb 2006 00:08
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he didnt give you line numbers?

dang...
but that looks like a pretty easy fix though...

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Cellbloc Studios
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Posted: 20th Feb 2006 05:25
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From what I hear of U6.0, it will fix most of my issues I have with speed. I wonder if I can get an Beta version of it with the hopes of getting more performance from FPSC.

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RJ is out Leave a message
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Posted: 20th Feb 2006 06:09
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Don't you think we need to take this thread down by now? I see cyber tumble weeds rolling around in here.
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brummel
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Posted: 20th Feb 2006 12:07
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Eh...Uhm... OK Cellblock, how far have you got with this project?

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Origin
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Posted: 20th Feb 2006 12:23
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He's NOT going to be done with it anytime soon...

I can assure you that...


If you run around the planet fifteen times naked with a combine solider behind you(!), you might be in time to see the release of riker 9...

He's taking too long...


Buy the enhancements pack, and start coding yourself...



RIKER 9 IS NOT GOING TO BE LET OUT BEFORE IT STARTS TO RAIN COWS!!


I don't wanna fight no union!

FREE SPEECH FOR ALL!! but, not mod's... hahahaha!!!
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brummel
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Posted: 20th Feb 2006 12:29
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*watching the raining cows outside*

Origin, i know its not going to be done until this summer or something! I just wanted to know hows it going.

-Half Death- A game like Half Life 2 in progress...
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brummel
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Posted: 20th Feb 2006 12:31
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*watching the cows raining outside*

@Origin

I know its not going to be done until summer! I just wanted to know how things are going for him!

-Half Death- A game like Half Life 2 in progress...
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brummel
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Posted: 20th Feb 2006 12:31
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dfhhrthjrsj

-Half Death- A game like Half Life 2 in progress...
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Origin
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Posted: 20th Feb 2006 12:41
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Tripple post?
I GET IT!!

U're a N00b!!!!!!!!!1^¨1!!###§!!!

I didn't point to you, Anitmatter!

I said to all those who think they're going to use a flashlight, and save a game before next year...

Anyway, TGC is working on it too...

I don't wanna fight no union!

FREE SPEECH FOR ALL!! but, not mod's... hahahaha!!!
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brummel
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Posted: 20th Feb 2006 13:11
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Ah this is why you called me a noob. Sorry about that, when i posted, the messeges didnt appear at first so i tried again, and then all three appeared.

-Half Death- A game like Half Life 2 in progress...
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Origin
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Posted: 20th Feb 2006 13:14
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Quote: "Ah this is why you called me a noob. Sorry about that, when i posted, the messeges didnt appear at first so i tried again, and then all three appeared.
"


Ok...

Hehe...

You're running on 56.2kbps or something, right?

Why should you care?

WWW.BREAK.COM
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brummel
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Posted: 20th Feb 2006 13:15
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No i run on a 24mbit adsl.

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Origin
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Posted: 20th Feb 2006 13:18
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Hmmm... that's wierd!

Probably server latency....

Why should you care?

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Benjamin A
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Posted: 20th Feb 2006 14:31
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Quote: "Origin, i know its not going to be done until this summer or something! I just wanted to know hows it going."


Well, read the thread and you'll know how it's going. CB posted only a couple of days ago.

Just to give you a quick summary on how it's going.....
Quote: "RIKER 9 IS NOT GOING TO BE LET OUT BEFORE IT STARTS TO RAIN COWS!!"


That statement says it all, doesn't it?

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brummel
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Posted: 20th Feb 2006 15:38
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And i say its going to rain cows in the middle of this summer.

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BULLSHOCK 2
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Posted: 20th Feb 2006 18:54
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wtf is wrong with you guys...

there isnt just a MAKE FPSC BETTER command. plus tgc wont fix the culling problem, so he has to re write the whole engine.

if you guys dont like the fact that its taking so long, get the hell out of here, dont ruin it for the rest of us.

you dont have to post it here, and try to get this thread locked, post in the "flame bait riker 9 thread"

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DJ Professor K
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Posted: 20th Feb 2006 19:42 Edited at: 20th Feb 2006 19:42
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Quote: " wtf is wrong with you guys...

there isnt just a MAKE FPSC BETTER command. plus tgc wont fix the culling problem, so he has to re write the whole engine.

if you guys dont like the fact that its taking so long, get the hell out of here, dont ruin it for the rest of us.

you dont have to post it here, and try to get this thread locked, post in the "flame bait riker 9 thread""


well said, BULLSHOCK 2, finaly, someone said what was needed to be said

My love is seperated in 2 parts, 1 of them is 3ds Max 7, the other; FPSC.
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crow34
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Posted: 20th Feb 2006 19:52
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i am with you bullshock well said
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Benjamin A
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Posted: 20th Feb 2006 20:11
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I'm not trying to get this thread locked at all, I'm just trying to be realistic.... He's already having a hard time writing Riker9 as is, due to lots of other responsibilities, so I really don't see him rewrite the complete engine at all.

It took TGC 3 years to write it, it's very unlikely one man is going to rewrite it completely, you may as well be realistic about this, no matter how much you want it to happen.

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BULLSHOCK 2
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Posted: 20th Feb 2006 22:49
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hes not rewriting it completely.

the engine has a ton of functions already there, although it will be a big task to rewrite the engine, it wont take nearly as long as tgc took because he has all the pre built functions such as loading fpi's, the handeling of entitys, the reading of universe.dbo ETC.

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brummel
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Posted: 20th Feb 2006 23:28
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Uhhh...Have you had a bad day today Bullshock?

-The Human Takeovers- Coming Summer 2006
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BULLSHOCK 2
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Posted: 20th Feb 2006 23:34
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no, i just cant stand for people that no absolutely nothing about how time consuming programming and debugging really is, and all they do is whine.

i dont want to offend, i just dont like reading constant posts of whining when cellbloc is trying to do something nice for us.

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brummel
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Posted: 20th Feb 2006 23:37
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Ok im sorry...

-The Human Takeovers- Coming Summer 2006
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Benjamin A
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Posted: 20th Feb 2006 23:41
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Quote: "no, i just cant stand for people that no absolutely nothing about how time consuming programming and debugging really is, and all they do is whine."


You're just assuming something..... I know lot's about programming and debugging and I do realize what a heck of job CB has gotten himself into and I really don't think he'll be able to pull it off on his own. It's way to much.... but it's ok to have a dream though.

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Bored of the Rings
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Posted: 21st Feb 2006 13:33
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I just want to say this: Cellblock does not have to commit himself to any of us, if he wanted he could say to himself, "All these people moaning about when Riker 9 comes out, you know what I think I'll keep it for myself once it's done!". He is under no obligation to help us. Keep stumm if you ever want to see this product. IF you know how.
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Reuben
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Posted: 22nd Feb 2006 00:32
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Quote: "He is under no obligation to help us. Keep stumm if you ever want to see this product. IF you know how. "

And if you dont know how, try!
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Darkfoil
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Posted: 22nd Feb 2006 12:12
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I think we all agree that FPSC has it's share of bugs and that it needs improving in some ways, and I know we all want an upgrade to appear to address this but constantly moaning about it isn't going to make it appear any faster. Cellblock is taking on a mamoth task in his rewrite of FPSC and it's just not going to be finished overnight no matter how much we might want it to be. He's said that when it's done it will be released to the community but he's under no obligation to do that, he could just keep it to himself, and given the amount of bitching I've seen about how long it's taking or whether he's doing it at all I wouldn't blame him for a minute if he did keep it to himself. I'm no programmer and I don't pretend to be but having looked through the thousands of lines of code in FPSC I've got massive respect for Cellblock and what he is trying to do. So to all those people out there that keep moaning either rewrite the damn thing yourselves, start bitching and moaning to TGC, or STFU!
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Bored of the Rings
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Posted: 22nd Feb 2006 13:19
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thanks reubenm your kind words mean everything ha!
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Aoneweb
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Quote: "I just want to say this: Cellblock does not have to commit himself to any of us, if he wanted he could say to himself, "All these people moaning about when Riker 9 comes out, you know what I think I'll keep it for myself once it's done!". He is under no obligation to help us. Keep stumm if you ever want to see this product. IF you know how."

The NOOB has spoken

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Bored of the Rings
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2006 13:29 Edited at: 23rd Feb 2006 13:31
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not a noob actually, a professional programmer with attitude ha!!!! Been using FPSC since EA came out ha!!!! Okay why am I using FPSC when I'm a professional programmer, well that's easy. I use it for fun and that's all. Forget making commercial games with this package, it's too slow.
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incense
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2006 15:43
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Can someone please tell me the name of the files that have to be modified in order to do something like Riker9?

I know that I need DB Pro so I dont need to be informed of that.

I have a friend that has DB Pro and we opened the only file that it would open in the ODE package for FPSC. It was very small and there was nothing in it about save load or anything that seemed helpful.

The person that now knows the most started with many questions. Patients and tolorance are the keys to the passage of knowledge. We're all noobies at something. Support your local Riker 9 Chapter.
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BULLSHOCK 2
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2006 16:58
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...

FPSC-Game.dba

hey cellbloc, hows it going?

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incense
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2006 21:57
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Thanks BULLSHOCK 2, I and a friend that has DB Pro tried to compile the FPSC-Game.dba and it is full of errors. Are you positive that this is the exact source file that TGC used to make the engine for FPSC?

The person that now knows the most started with many questions. Patients and tolorance are the keys to the passage of knowledge. We're all noobies at something. Support your local Riker 9 Chapter.
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Reality Forgotten
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2006 22:11
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Quote: "not a noob actually, a professional programmer with attitude ha!!!! Been using FPSC since EA came out ha!!!! Okay why am I using FPSC when I'm a professional programmer, well that's easy. I use it for fun and that's all. Forget making commercial games with this package, it's too slow. "



What company do you work for?

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himynameisali
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2006 22:13
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Quote: "U're a N00b!!!!!!!!!1^¨1!!###§!!!"


Shut up, Origin .

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