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Dark GDK / Dark Game SDK and .NET

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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2006 15:04
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Yes, stop posting, and get back to work!

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Lost in Thought
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2006 15:25 Edited at: 22nd Apr 2006 15:27
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It's hard to find good help these days *shakes head*. LOL I'm off to bed now.

[edit] And I need to talk with you about something APEX . I'll try and send you an emial if I don't see you on MSN soon. MSN may be better though

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APEXnow
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2006 15:30
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@L.I.T Ok, I'll see if your on this evening when hours are more suitable.

@Nicholas J Kingsley, oi... you cheaky.... lol

Paul.


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re faze
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2006 18:49 Edited at: 22nd Apr 2006 18:50
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Quote: "At work I currently use VB6 (which I loathe)"

yo, you wanna take this outside? dont talk about my baby like that


what's the point of vb.net if its just as complex as the others now?

Dont code slowly be SWIFT about it!
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Briere
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2006 20:19
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So wait is this going to be a .NET version, or just compatable with vc++ 2005
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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2006 22:27 Edited at: 22nd Apr 2006 22:28
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Probably both (unless VS 2003 compatability is kept - ie Lee/Mike doesn't use any security enhanced functions).

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APEXnow
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2006 23:03
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So no one saw the thing running under SharpDev then?


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Lost in Thought
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2006 07:41
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I did, but some people are too lazy to read the whole thread.

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CattleRustler
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2006 15:48
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Quote: "...some people are too lazy to read the whole thread"

yep

Quote: "what's the point of vb.net if its just as complex as the others now?"

you got that a bit mixed up mate, its just as powerful but with the syntax you're used to from say vb6. OK, some stuff has gotten more complex and its truly OO now, but at least its a real programming language now - no longer the red-headed stepchild of c++

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Miguel Melo
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2006 19:21
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Please don't mention @#$%@#$% VB6 and C++ in the same sentence. The proximity just taints the latter no matter what words are inbetween...

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APEXnow
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Posted: 24th Apr 2006 15:49
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I have successfully implemented ALL functions (given just a small few that causes problems because of the Unmanaged nature of certain types in .NET). Please find attached, a ZIPped help file documenting what functions are now implemented under the .NET classes.

This will go some way to give you an idea of what is currently available in the DGSDK.NET library.

There are other vital aspects to the library that I have yet to complete before TGC become involved on the distribution side, but be sure that all news will be posted when necessary.

Paul.


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Miguel Melo
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Posted: 24th Apr 2006 16:34
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Funny... the forum list for a while listed a post by a certain MikeS as the latest, but when you came into the tread it wasn't here. Now APEXnow posted this, the fantom post is still not between mine and his... odd forum soft...

I have vague plans for World Domination
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CattleRustler
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Posted: 24th Apr 2006 16:58
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it may be because a post was deleted at some point, screwing up the end marker, altho I don't remember any posts being deleted. I think when a post is deleted (really just hidden) it creates an offset between actual posts count vs visible posts count and misaligns "latest post" :\

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APEXnow
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Posted: 24th Apr 2006 22:17 Edited at: 24th Apr 2006 22:18
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I've converted the 'Animation Showcase' demo that comes with DGSDK to VB.NET, here is the demo running using DGSDK.NET.



Paul.


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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 24th Apr 2006 22:35
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Any chance of making the executable availiable ?

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APEXnow
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Posted: 24th Apr 2006 22:45
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Not yet, purely due to security issues.


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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 24th Apr 2006 22:53
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Shame - wanted to see how well it would run on XP x64

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Gervais
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Posted: 24th Apr 2006 23:11
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Which version are you using for creating the .NET version? After checking the command listed in the help file I did notice some command missing that have been added to the DBP 6 release.
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APEXnow
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Posted: 24th Apr 2006 23:19
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Yeah, but I can't do any additiona based on the Beta 6 release until TGC update the DGSDK itself. This is thw whole issue with the .NET version in that it will always be inline with the DGSDK version that's available.

Paul.


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CattleRustler
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Posted: 24th Apr 2006 23:42
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and Im pretty sure that demo from visual studio is in .net 1.1 in studio 2003

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re faze
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Posted: 25th Apr 2006 06:43
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Quote: "you got that a bit mixed up mate, its just as powerful but with the syntax you're used to from say vb6. OK, some stuff has gotten more complex and its truly OO now, but at least its a real programming language now - no longer the red-headed stepchild of c++ "


i tried converting swiftIDE using the automatic conversion tool and I have over 230 errors that, they force OO (could be good in the long run but not now) and variant has disapeared from both api calls and native code...

Dont code slowly be SWIFT about it!
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CattleRustler
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Posted: 25th Apr 2006 16:37
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converting vb6 to .net is a dodgy affair at best. if you have something written in vb6 that is worth the work then its better to completely rewrite it from scratch.

Variant was a necessary evil in vb6, not longer true in vb.net (altho its actually still available, I won't say how). I'd suggest setting your ide to always have Option STRICT on - itll make you a better coder than the day before

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re faze
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Posted: 25th Apr 2006 17:32 Edited at: 25th Apr 2006 17:34
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Quote: "Variant was a necessary evil in vb6, not longer true in vb.net (altho its actually still available, I won't say how). I'd suggest setting your ide to always have Option STRICT on - itll make you a better coder than the day before "

i was only using it for api functions that used the as any paramater.
I believe its a variant, not sure, but whatever it is, it does not convert properly.
I looked into what you said about c# though, it does seem quite a bit better than the other .net languages. ill check it out some more.

Id buy a copy of dgsdk if it could be used with vs.net express.

Dont code slowly be SWIFT about it!
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CattleRustler
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Posted: 25th Apr 2006 20:18
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it can be

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Inbetween Games
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Posted: 25th Apr 2006 21:22
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But what are the thoughts about the price?

free, few bucks, haven't decided, waiting to see the interest?
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Gen
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Posted: 26th Apr 2006 02:25
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I'm hoping its bundled with the current DGSDK, but if not, it will be a bit before I can get it

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Lost in Thought
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Posted: 26th Apr 2006 05:18
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I would think it would be 2 different products. DGSDK and DGSDK.net 0_o

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adr
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Posted: 26th Apr 2006 15:18
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I don't think TGC can reasonably justify the .NET wrapper being a separate purchase, but I wouldn't blame them for trying

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iv tryed everything!!!!!!!!!! could u please just add The gun and shooting Code thats All!!!!!!!!!
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CattleRustler
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Posted: 26th Apr 2006 17:13
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its really too early to discuss the pricing/packaging realm of issues with the .NET dgsdk. That all needs to be sorted between TGC and Apexnow in due time. I know the core of the dgsdk.net is pretty much complete and pex is now working on the main aspects of the distributable implementation. How it will be packaged or priced remains to be seen, I can say however, the .net wrapper itself is a stand-alone body of work who's author should be compensated.

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theDK
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Posted: 26th Apr 2006 19:01
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Quote: "the .net wrapper itself is a stand-alone body of work who's author should be compensated.
"


I second that.
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APEXnow
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Posted: 26th Apr 2006 19:32
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Thank you very very much :')


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Willy
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Posted: 27th Apr 2006 05:41
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With FPS Creator, DBPro, the SDK, and now SDK.net, TGC has got a very well rounded product line. The .net version is really great news! Given what the bandits are charging for high end graphics packages, TGC is holding an affordable price target which should continue to attract and retain loyal customers.
Kudos to all, especially APEXnow. Thank-you!

Willy
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Miguel Melo
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Posted: 27th Apr 2006 11:21
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Let's just hope that TGC foot the bill for the work APEXnow is doing.

Call me a cheap bastard if you want, but if they decide to charge for the wrapper they WILL CHARGE for the wrapper. By the emphasis I mean that I find TGC's prices to on the high for most things, especially because they tack VAT on top of everything (i.e. add 20% on top).

This is the reason I got 3d world studio directly from leadwerks: same marked price, but no VAT (i.e. 20% discount - sorted!).

But, yes, I feel it's indeniable that APEXnow is doing an awesome work!

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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 27th Apr 2006 11:38
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17.5% VAT actually, unless its different in the rest of the EU

VAT, unfortunately does need to be added, otherwise you get into trouble with Mr. Tax Man (may he get run over by his own calculator).

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adr
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Posted: 27th Apr 2006 14:44
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Quote: "the .net wrapper itself is a stand-alone body of work who's author should be compensated."

I'm sorry if I implied APEX should be working for free That's not my sentiment at all. I think it's up to TGC to source the cash, rather than the custoemrs; DBPro or even DGSDK sales can subsidise his payment.

Fair point though Cattle - early days.

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iv tryed everything!!!!!!!!!! could u please just add The gun and shooting Code thats All!!!!!!!!!
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APEXnow
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Posted: 27th Apr 2006 15:31 Edited at: 27th Apr 2006 15:33
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With respect to TGC's work on the DGSDK, I've merely provided a door for which the .NET community can also benefit from using DGSDK. It's a fantastic opportunity to be involved with a product that I truly believe, has alot of potential and a good future for game development, irrespective of whether it's C++ or .NET based. The DGSDK library is powerful and easy to use. The .NET version of the library has quite a way to go yet as I must protect both my interests, and TGCs since the .NET version completely relies on a product that I did not develop. It's a complicated business in dealing with issues where one product requires another.

As for pricing, distribution and support etc, these details have not yet been set in stone, and will not be discussed or speculated upon on these forums by myself or any of the TGC staff until an appropriate stage. With regards to whether the .NET version will become an additional product to the DGSDK or as a separate product altogether, these are also details that I cannot discuss or itterate upon.

Again, I appreciate all the support and feedback that people have so far provided, and I'll do my upmost to ensure that the .NET version will hopefully be a successful addition to the TGC product line. My only concern at the moment, is to ensure that the tool is not abused, and does not compromise TGCs existing DGSDK product via registered DGSDK developer's efforts and distributions.

Thanks

Paul.

[EDIT] Corrections


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Miguel Melo
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Posted: 27th Apr 2006 15:33
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Quote: "17.5% VAT actually, unless its different in the rest of the EU"


It's 21% here in Portugal...

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APEXnow
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Posted: 27th Apr 2006 15:48
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Ouch!!! I can't imagine what the oil prices are like then... Our petrol prices in the UK are likely to reach record levels because of the Tax and import costs. (anyway, this is a separate issue so don't continue on this note in this thread)

Paul.


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Freddy 007
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Posted: 27th Apr 2006 21:41
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Quote: "It's 21% here in Portugal... "


Pff! It's 25% in Denmark.


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Miguel Melo
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Posted: 28th Apr 2006 00:59 Edited at: 28th Apr 2006 00:59
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Quote: "Pff! It's 25% in Denmark."


Yes, but if Denmark is anything like the UK, people earn about twice as much as they do in Portugal (in the UK at least they do, I know, as I lived and worked there for 5 years).

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Freddy 007
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Posted: 28th Apr 2006 13:19
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Well, I'm not very familar with how much the average person earns in Denmark, but anyway, back on topic...

Is it 100% sure that that the SDK .NET will work with VS2005 Express? Or have I just misunderstood something?


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APEXnow
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Posted: 28th Apr 2006 13:53 Edited at: 28th Apr 2006 13:57
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Quote: "Is it 100% sure that that the SDK .NET will work with VS2005 Express?"


I'm not going to say that it's 100% since I have not officially tested it against this version yet, but I will say that there should not be any reason why it won't work. It has successfully been tested under SharpDev which provides, more or less, the same features. If it makes you happier, I'll install VS2005 Express onto a separate test machine with a GF4 FX 440 installed and see if it runs on there.

Paul.

[EDIT] Which version? C# or VB.Net Express versions? I'm not familiar with the C# one so it would be better if I tried it under VB.Net Express version. If it works under that, surely there'd be no issues with C# either.


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CattleRustler
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Posted: 28th Apr 2006 15:12
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I dont see any reason why it won't run under 2005 Express, it runs under all other VS.NET versions (2003-2005 vb.net & c# fw1.1 & 2.0) there may just need to be a different compile version for vs.net 2005 since framework 2.0 handles Interop slightly different.

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Freddy 007
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Posted: 30th Apr 2006 23:54
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Quote: "Which version? C# or VB.Net Express versions? "


Oh, aren't we even talking about C++ here?




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APEXnow
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Quote: "Oh, aren't we even talking about C++ here?"


Well, the DGSDK.NET version is designed to run on the .NET platform. As for the C++ express version, if there was going to be support for it, it probably would have happened by now, but I'm only dealing with VB.net at the moment.

Paul.


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Miguel Melo
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Posted: 1st May 2006 14:11
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I hope you're wrong APEXnow... I expect that they will add support for VS2005 so it can be used by native (unmanaged) C++ while you create a .NET wrapper that will overlay those versions and can be used, if need by, my managed C++.

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APEXnow
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Posted: 1st May 2006 19:38 Edited at: 1st May 2006 19:39
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I'm not saying that it will not happen, but from my understanding, the core DBP libraries need to be compiled under the express compiler to generate compatable static libraries for the express version of the compiler. Whether TGC will follow this route, I do not know.

Paul.

[EDIT] Corrections


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re faze
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Posted: 1st May 2006 20:57 Edited at: 1st May 2006 20:58
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Quote: "VAT, unfortunately does need to be added, otherwise you get into trouble with Mr. Tax Man (may he get run over by his own calculator)."

we can have a shootout then
[edit]
and by shootout i mean a battle of the minds.

and by a battle of the minds i mean his mind against my lawyers mind.

Dont code slowly be SWIFT about it!
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APEXnow
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Great idea for a game... "The Taxinator!!"


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re faze
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Posted: 2nd May 2006 00:12
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idea nicked. making it now.

Dont code slowly be SWIFT about it!
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