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Geek Culture / Protest against the war!

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The Communist
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Posted: 21st Mar 2003 20:30 Edited at: 21st Mar 2003 22:07
During the Gulf War in 1991, 150,000 civilian iraqies were killed by the allied forces. Don't let this happen again! The iraqi people have suffered enough, from a cruel and oppressing dictator, from the economical and material sanctions which have resulted in the death of one and a half million innocent iraqies, of which 700,000 were children, and from a 1000% rise of the cancer frequency due to US's use of radioactive uranium during the Gulf War.

It is everyones duty to protest against the insanity of another attack on this poor, ravaged country. If there is a demonstration or some other kind of protest near you, I ask you, PLEASE, join it and show mr Bush and mr Blair that it is NOT OK!

Workers of all lands, Unite!
The Communist
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Posted: 21st Mar 2003 20:33 Edited at: 21st Mar 2003 20:34
aa well... found out how to use the edit now too.

Workers of all lands, Unite!
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 21st Mar 2003 20:41
This is the decision taken by the majority of our govenrments... and this is how it will be - if you protest all you will be doing is causing civil unrest again those who are either
a)not opposed
b)don't give a damn
c)care but understand that once a decision has been made we're here to back and also fight for that decision.

look not to be funny, but what done IS done... no matter how much you protest in your nice comfy chair, or down streets will it make the damn'dest of the difference. Why? Because there is a point of commitment, which the Troops have now taken. The time for talking and voicing opinions is past ... now its time to make sure that this conflict is done in the right way rather than adding extra pressure on the governments and causing even more problems because they're not focused exactly on the job in hand.

The tactics being taken only in these past few days suggests quite openly that they're actually taking this conflict as a step-by-step rather than an all out assult to destory saddams country. Cold, Calculated and Tactical - yes people, innocents will die... but this isn't an all out conflict and the troops are minimising these as much as humanly possible.

If you truely want to make a difference JOIN the armed forces!
else BE QUIET and let the men and women do thier damn'd jobs without feeling bad because they're not doing what everyone wants. It is bad enough most are doing this even dispite veiws ... but then its as was of the soliders said the other day - THIS is what they are there to do. A deterant is all well and good, having the force to show and be a deterant to any real conflicts, but at the end of the day if they never see real combat they'll never be ready if REAL combat arises. And Iraq is not the only theatre they'll be called upon to fight within - so pipedown.

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
Dr OcCuLt
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Posted: 21st Mar 2003 20:59
Raven that is the best way i think any one will ever put it.

the face is there is a lot whorg whit the war but it start now and it not going to stop untill so one win`s.

if you what to help join the red cross and go to Iraq do`t sit at home and say war is bad becos?

--Dr 0--
The Communist
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Posted: 21st Mar 2003 21:58
Raven:
look not to be funny, but what done IS done... no matter how much you protest in your nice comfy chair, or down streets will it make the damn'dest of the difference.

ofcourse it makes a difference. look at the vietnam war. why did the US withdraw their forces? because of the massive protests all over the world.

The time for talking and voicing opinions is past ...

i am not "voicing" my opinions, i am asking everyone to protest. as i said, protesting did stop wars before, and it can be done again.

now its time to make sure that this conflict is done in the right way rather than adding extra pressure on the governments and causing even more problems because they're not focused exactly on the job in hand.

"done in the right way"? that is just stupid. do you think the right way is to bomb the hell outta of the iraqi people? cuz that is exactly what is happening. just like during the gulf war. and "causing even more problems"? now, what problems would i cause by protesting against this insanity? the goal BTW is not to cause problems to the governments, but to make them STOP the war.

The tactics being taken only in these past few days suggests quite openly that they're actually taking this conflict as a step-by-step rather than an all out assult to destory saddams country.

someone in the us government said recently that this is just the beginning and that it is zero compared to what will come.

Cold, Calculated and Tactical - yes people, innocents will die... but this isn't an all out conflict and the troops are minimising these as much as humanly possible.

that was said before the gulf war too. "we have only high precision missiles" and stuff like that. still, 150,000 is a big number, isn't it?

If you truely want to make a difference JOIN the armed forces!

yeah, what am i gonna do in the armed forces then? shoot myself? or my friends? or what?

else BE QUIET and let the men and women do thier damn'd jobs without feeling bad because they're not doing what everyone wants.

now, lets just turn this a 180 degrees: Raven, BE QUIET and let the demonstrating men and women to their damn'd jobs without feeling bad because they aren't doing what the warmongers want.

i didn't like that statement at all, neither did i like yours. they are just doing their job, fine. but if Bush and company decides that they turn back home, then that is their job too, right?


It is bad enough most are doing this even dispite veiws ... but then its as was of the soliders said the other day - THIS is what they are there to do. A deterant is all well and good, having the force to show and be a deterant to any real conflicts, but at the end of the day if they never see real combat they'll never be ready if REAL combat arises. And Iraq is not the only theatre they'll be called upon to fight within - so pipedown.

you seem to forget the people in iraq. you know, it's not only allied forces and Saddam in Iraq. so your saying: "stop caring about the human rights and the lives of the iraqi people, the forces might feel bad about it"!

do you have any respect for the human life at all Raven?


Dr OcCuLt:
the face is there is a lot whorg whit the war but it start now and it not going to stop untill so one win`s.

as i said, wars have been stopped before.

if you what to help join the red cross and go to Iraq do`t sit at home and say war is bad becos?

i am NOT sitting at home saying war is bad. just today me and my comrades had an action against a shipping company who rented a ship to the English army. we painted countours of dead bodies on the ground outside their terminal and dealt pamphlets to people who were walking in and out. and tomorrow there is a big demonstration in Stockholm (capital of Sweden) which i will be participating in. it will hopefully put some pressure on our government to more clearly raise its voice against US's and GB's warfanatism.

Workers of all lands, Unite!
empty
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Posted: 21st Mar 2003 21:59
If you are against this war then go out and protest; then you have the right to do so; then you have the duty to do so.

Ogres have layers.
The Communist
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Posted: 21st Mar 2003 22:06
thanks empty. and if you support this war then i'll be happy to discuss it anytime!

Workers of all lands, Unite!
empty
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Posted: 21st Mar 2003 22:17
No, I don't support superfluous wars waged for obscure reasons.

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actarus
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Posted: 21st Mar 2003 22:20
-ofcourse it makes a difference. look at the vietnam war. why did the US withdraw their forces? because of the massive protests all over the world

Do you know how long the Vietnam war lasted?

Just remember that you're standing on a planet that's evolving
And revolving at nine hundred miles an hour!
empty
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Posted: 21st Mar 2003 22:22 Edited at: 21st Mar 2003 22:23
-Do you know how long the Vietnam war lasted?

Do you know when the massive protests started?

Ogres have layers.
Dr OcCuLt
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Posted: 21st Mar 2003 22:22
Quote: "i am NOT sitting at home saying war is bad. just today me and my comrades had an action against a shipping company who rented a ship to the English army. we painted countours of dead bodies on the ground outside their terminal and dealt pamphlets to people who were walking in and out. and tomorrow there is a big demonstration in Stockholm (capital of Sweden) which i will be participating in. it will hopefully put some pressure on our government to more clearly raise its voice against US's and GB's warfanatism."


that not helping any one in Iraq!!!!
actarus
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Posted: 21st Mar 2003 22:22 Edited at: 21st Mar 2003 22:24
Empty:Yes...the war wasn't even started.

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And revolving at nine hundred miles an hour!
empty
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Posted: 21st Mar 2003 22:23 Edited at: 21st Mar 2003 22:23
-Yes...the war wasn't even started.
Not?

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actarus
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Posted: 21st Mar 2003 22:25
Actually only a minor part of the American people were FOR the war at it's beginning.you must know that.

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And revolving at nine hundred miles an hour!
Martyn Pittuck
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Posted: 21st Mar 2003 22:25
I think protesting now is sickening. We must now forget about protesting and pray for the troops, civilians and aid workers.

It is too late to protest and only distracts people from the current problems. Dont spend money on making posters, getting T-Shirts etc. give it to the appropriate charities and make a difference.

I cannot belive some people feel like they have a duty to protest against a war that is well underway.

Well everyone is entitles to their own fellings and i cannot do anything about this. But in my opinion we should support those involved in war as diplomacy is up.

The Outside is a evil place to be, too much light, too much noise and too many distractions....
I went outside once and my FPS rate dropped to 5.
actarus
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Posted: 21st Mar 2003 22:26
-I think protesting now is sickening. We must now forget about protesting and pray for the troops, civilians and aid workers

United we stand.

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And revolving at nine hundred miles an hour!
empty
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Posted: 21st Mar 2003 22:27
-Actually only a minor part of the American people were FOR the war at it's beginning.you must know that.

I know that I must know that. But we're talking about massive protests here. And they started 1968/69. About seven years after the war started.

Ogres have layers.
actarus
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Posted: 21st Mar 2003 22:29 Edited at: 21st Mar 2003 22:32
And it took around 8 other years to end it...I think protests,as heavy as they were,as much people that got beaten by the police as there was, had not a thing to do with it's end.

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The Communist
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Posted: 21st Mar 2003 22:31
Dr OcCuLt:
that not helping any one in Iraq!!!!
no? so if we protest and make the US stop the war, that aint helping anyone?

Workers of all lands, Unite!
actarus
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Posted: 21st Mar 2003 22:33
lol!

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empty
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Posted: 21st Mar 2003 22:33
-And it took around 8 other years to end it...I think protests,as heavy as they were,as much people got beaten by the police, had not a thing to do with it's end.

Well that's your interpretation.

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Arrow
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Posted: 21st Mar 2003 22:33
I'm supprised how many people just give up so quickly. So the wars begun, that doesn't mean it right, it doesn't mean people are still opposed to it. Last I checked 40% of America still doesn't support this war. I got family over there, I don't protest to distract them, I protest to get them out of there. This is a democrosy after all, it's our right to tell the goverment the we don't agree with them, we put them there after all. We don't serve them, they serve us, let them know what we want.

Am I a butterfly dreaming I'm a man?
Or a bowling ball dreaming I'm a plate of samishi?
Never assume that what you see or feel is real.
actarus
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Posted: 21st Mar 2003 22:34
No that's what some people would've like to believe it did.

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The Communist
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Posted: 21st Mar 2003 22:34
Martyn Pittuck:
It is too late to protest and only distracts people from the current problems. Dont spend money on making posters, getting T-Shirts etc. give it to the appropriate charities and make a difference.

i aint helping dead people by giving them money

Workers of all lands, Unite!
empty
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Posted: 21st Mar 2003 22:36 Edited at: 21st Mar 2003 22:45
-No that's what some people would've like to believe it did.

You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one.
I hope someday you'll join us, and the world will live as one.

So you know the ultimate truth?
Ahh now I got it, your name isn't actarus but oracle

Ogres have layers.
The Communist
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Posted: 21st Mar 2003 22:37
Arrow:
I'm supprised how many people just give up so quickly. So the wars begun, that doesn't mean it right, it doesn't mean people are still opposed to it. Last I checked 40% of America still doesn't support this war. I got family over there, I don't protest to distract them, I protest to get them out of there. This is a democrosy after all, it's our right to tell the goverment the we don't agree with them, we put them there after all. We don't serve them, they serve us, let them know what we want.

perfect attitude!

Workers of all lands, Unite!
actarus
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Posted: 21st Mar 2003 22:44
The Ultimate truth is...No wait,the Jewish conspirators from Zog and Opus dei are all over me argghh....

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And revolving at nine hundred miles an hour!
empty
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Posted: 21st Mar 2003 22:49 Edited at: 21st Mar 2003 22:51
Don't know but the oracle from the ancient myths seemed to work better....
This sounds more like the Castle Aaaagh. :-s

Ogres have layers.
actarus
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Posted: 21st Mar 2003 22:53 Edited at: 21st Mar 2003 22:53
errr...I guess so.

Anyways I'm not against protest,I participated in much of them in 1991.I guess this surprises some,but then again everything is possible.That's one of the reasons people should have the right to do it.

Just remember that you're standing on a planet that's evolving
And revolving at nine hundred miles an hour!
empty
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Posted: 21st Mar 2003 22:57
Agreed.

(BTW: The Castle Aaaagh is from Monty Python's "The Holy Grail")

Ogres have layers.
Rob K
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Posted: 21st Mar 2003 23:16
"150,000 civilian iraqies were killed by the allied forces"

I would expect fewer casualties this time, given that there is less reliance on carpet bombing, 9/10 weapons are now precision guided as opposed to 1/10. There will still be 20,000+ deaths at least (probably nearer 50,000). I disagree with the war, but there is nothing I can do now, save to kick Blair out next election (when that bastard will probably use the euphoria generated at the end of a War (if we win) to enlist us in the Euro).

Current Project: Retro Compo. Entry.
The Communist
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Posted: 21st Mar 2003 23:26
Rob K:
I would expect fewer casualties this time, given that there is less reliance on carpet bombing, 9/10 weapons are now precision guided as opposed to 1/10. There will still be 20,000+ deaths at least (probably nearer 50,000).

you might be right. but still lets "say" only 20.000 thousand people gets killed. that's enough to me.

I disagree with the war, but there is nothing I can do now, save to kick Blair out next election

yeah... so what will you be voting for then?

(when that bastard will probably use the euphoria generated at the end of a War (if we win) to enlist us in the Euro).

there is no doubt that the US/GB will win the war, Iraq is a highly underdeveloped nation with no chance at all of winning.

and it seems like a possible scenario too. how do you feel about the euro and EMU?

Workers of all lands, Unite!
DangYankee
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Posted: 21st Mar 2003 23:39
Communist-iraqi people have suffered enough, from a cruel and oppressing dictator
I'll problally go down in flames for my views - thinking hard of stopping before it's too late, but what the hell. Raven put it nicely, I was suprised.

Just a note: I really doubt if many from here really experienced Vietnam! nuff said.

I don't like protesters in general because they can turn in to a big ugly mob with no brains. Very dangerous even to themselves. Also if I was a terrorist that would make a tempting target, get lots of coverage. It is counter productive on so many levels. More can be done other ways if you think it is right and just to protest it.

But even said that, I think I'll wait after the war and see what the Iraqies have to say once Sadam is gone. That will be the real measure. Reality is the war is on and this thread will probally last longer the the regime.

But I would find it hard for me to personally to explain to thier people after they are liberated why the world ignored them and why they championed Sadam. If it turns out they really really liked him, I just can't imagine that!
Also that cry of "give the inspectors more time", is a load of crap, 12 years later and everyone acts surprised, I was in the first gulf war and you do not want to be there when spring and summer hits. Ok I would let the inspectors have more time say 2 months but let the other nations go in and fight after that, thats a laugh. I bet Hitler would have loved you guys. Iam turning negative so I must stop now and I think I will not reply on this again.

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The Communist
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Posted: 22nd Mar 2003 00:19 Edited at: 22nd Mar 2003 00:22
DangYankee:
we ("the protesters") are not protesting because we like Saddam. the thing is, there are other ways to kill off Saddam than to bomb the population. ofcourse he should be put of power. he is the most cruel dictator in the region, perhaps even in the whole world.

I don't like protesters in general because they can turn in to a big ugly mob with no brains.

that happens only when anarchists get into it, and what i think of anarchists is a little too violent to... whatever, lets just say that i do not like them at all. they have destroyed countless demonstrations and stuff by coming there, throwing stones etcetera.

But I would find it hard for me to personally to explain to thier people after they are liberated why the world ignored them and why they championed Sadam. If it turns out they really really liked him, I just can't imagine that!

first of all, it is clear that the purpose of the war isn't to liberate iraq, if that was the case, then you Yankees would have thought of it a long time ago. when for example Saddam gased his own people (with weapons that the US gave him for FREE), you didn't say anything. and during the Iran Iraq war, which cost almost a million casualties, you actively supported BOTH SIDES with weapons.
it wasn't a long time ago when someone from pentagon said "we don't care the least about human rights or democracy. if we would have, then we would have dealt with a whole lot of other countries a long time ago. we handle primarily out of out own interests". (i don't remember the exact quote, but that was the consensus of it).

second, Saddam has to go. but i don't think that dropping bombs over an already terrored population is going to help. my solution would be to remove the sanctions, use peacekeeping UN-units, and then actively supporting the people in removing Saddam from power.

third, i think the comparison between Saddam Hussein and Adolf Hitler is a little naive. Hiler was a great threat to Europe and the world, whilst Saddam is not. Even if he has weapons of mass destruction, he knows that the second he uses them he would have the whole world against him. just look at his attack on kuwait. he was forced to stop. (i am still wondering why noone did anything about him back then when they had the opportunity). it is only paranoia to believe that Saddam is a threat to someone else than his own population. i think its completely fair comparing Saddam and Hitler on a "cruelty"-basis though.

about the weapon inspectors, why is it a "laugh" to inspect Iraq for weapons? do you think that it is a better option that thousands of people die?


please excuse any spelling or grammar mistakes, i am really tired writing this...

Workers of all lands, Unite!
Andy Igoe
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Posted: 22nd Mar 2003 00:20
Here's some very relevant copy/paste's from my comments on another board - i've tried to take a step back from the 'Is it right?' question and look at the wider ramifications of the UN, the EU and the future of international stability amongst the super powers.

Post 1:
...The fact remains that we are well and truly in to the propaganda stages now. 'peace talks with senior Iraqi officials', true or just trying to undermine Saddam's confidence in his inner circle? We wont know until the books are written - and what we learn then will depend upon who wins as history has a way of being written by the victor.

The point is that America has not provided a single shred of evidence that Saddam is a terrorist, and it is a hard cold fact that they have not provided quantifyable evidence that he has weapons of mass destruction. It is solid fact that inside America you are innocent until proven guilty.

It is a fact that Saudi Arabia has been funding Al-Qeeda, it is a fact that almost all of America's oil comes from Saudi Arabia, it is a sad commercial reality that in order to declar war on Saudi then America must first obtain another large oil reserve.

It was announced today by the Pentagon that American forces will stay in Iraq as a staging post for further invasions with Iraq's neighbours if they do not fall in line. Saudi Arabia is on the border with Iraq, as is Iran and Turkey who may prove to be distractions first.

Of course there are many other facts about this campaign - but I feel this selection of them gives a very strong picture of how we got to where we are.


Post 2:
It is my belief that the current situation of the UN was brought about by a combination of Bush and Blair and not the failing of the UN itself - it has been systematically undermined deliberately.

America cannot afford a European superstate. If such a state is founded it will be significantly more powerful than the resources of the US could compete with in terms of resources, infrastructure and military capacity. If the EU continues on it's current path then America would be demoted to a second rate nation again, as if the competition from China is not enough alone!

The tearing apart of the UN is highly desireable from the American point-of-view, as the divisions in the UN will spill over into the European Community - infact they already have as Britain stands poised to repeat it's 1.5 war a century record against France and seems quite happy to brand that insignificant German guy whats-his-name as the next threat to European stability after Chirac.

Britains allies stand poised upon diplomatic disaster and now Britain must choose it's side: America or Europe.

We've already heard suggestion from No.10 that Britain intends to pull out of the Geneva convention and is considering it's stance on the European Court of Human Rights in order to deal with our immigration-terrorism problem.

For Britain, her empire and her commonwealth, there really is only one choice and that is America - France, Germany, Italy and Spain are completely unable to provide the protection that the commonwealth needs even if they ever could be talked in to doing so.

Our long standing strategic alliance with America has equipped much of the commonwealth with modern military technology, sure we have our own too - but as a nation with a small and consistently underfunded military for so long we do not have the technology to field a fully diversive force using our own meens. In short we are dependant upon allied military forces to maintain our position in the world order - a former super-power still nipping at the heals of the current super-states.

Britain has chosen America over Europe. After Iraq the world will face a political shake-up this much we can be absolutely sure on. The face of the UN will change, and I believe that will affect the EU too. America must continue to undermine the EU by what-ever meens possible, and now that the political battle lines have been drawn I hope they are successful because if the EU goes ahead without Britain I fear the divisions between my little island and Europe will lead the world in to a dark age of international tension.

Pneumatic Dryll, Outrageous epic cleric of EQ/Xev
God made the world in 7 days, but we're still waiting for the patch.
The Communist
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Posted: 22nd Mar 2003 00:34
there is a whole lot of interesting views in there Dryll. the recent discovery of bugging equipment in the EU parliament which was so highly advanced that only very few countries in the world would have access to it (mainly USA and Russia) "prooves" some of your views. it is most certainly not Russia, so there is not many alternatives left...

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Drakportalen
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Posted: 22nd Mar 2003 00:48
Lets dont forget how the people in Europe thought they could control Hitler there were allso peace actions against nations that wanted to atack germany before it was to late. And dont let us forget what country that saved Europe from total disaster. Now Iam sure that a will get a allot of storm angry post at me but do you know? I don't care! I have an oppinion and Iam going to stick to it. History is reapeting its self and we must prevent it. The antisemitism in the world are not mainly from nationalsist extrimist from the right wing. No, todays antisemitism is from the left wing and its not a totally new experience it has allways been there but now it is showing its real face. I think its naive that tyou think that all things can be sorted out without violence. Sometimes things have reaced a part so violence is the only seloution.
I do not think that the situation of today has any likenes with the situation back at Vietnamn. I agree with DangYankee:
I don't like protesters in general because they can turn in to a big ugly mob with no brains
People are protesting against Israel. Note that the left wing rather take and defend the side with the fascists arab leaders and chose not to buy any fruit from Israel. I shall tell you that the Israel goverment wont collapse if you dont but fruit from Isreal no instead a poor socialist kibotz owner will need to close and starve.

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MrTAToad
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Posted: 22nd Mar 2003 00:59
Whilst it has already started, we can get our revenge at the next General Election...

Good news everyone! I really am THAT good...
http://www.nickk.nildram.co.uk/ for great plug-ins - oh my, yes!
The Communist
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Posted: 22nd Mar 2003 01:11 Edited at: 22nd Mar 2003 01:12
Drakportalen:
Lets dont forget how the people in Europe thought they could control Hitler there were allso peace actions against nations that wanted to atack germany before it was to late. And dont let us forget what country that saved Europe from total disaster. Now Iam sure that a will get a allot of storm angry post at me but do you know? I don't care! I have an oppinion and Iam going to stick to it.

as i said, it is naive to believe that Saddam is going to attack anyone else but his own population. he was badly hurt during the gulf war, not much remains of his military capacity. and actually the Red Army did most of the work in killing Hitler. It was the Red Army that liberated most of the death camps, and it was also the Red Army to liberated Berlin.

and if you don't care if people are willing to discuss with you, then just skip posting.

The antisemitism in the world are not mainly from nationalsist extrimist from the right wing. No, todays antisemitism is from the left wing and its not a totally new experience it has allways been there but now it is showing its real face. I think its naive that tyou think that all things can be sorted out without violence. Sometimes things have reaced a part so violence is the only seloution.

where does antisemitism come into the picture here? you are just very stupid in calling the left wing antisemitic because we don't sympathise with the Israelic aggression against Palestine. if a man from germany kicks me in the face, and i get mad at him, does that mean that i get mad at him because he is from germany? no, ofcourse not. if i choose to boycot cocacola i don't do it because it is an american company, but because they do bad stuff. so just quit the antisemitism stuf, it's just plain stupidity. BTW, both Karl Marx and Vladimir Lenin were jews.

and yes, ofcourse sometimes things get to the point where a violent solution is inavoidable. but the situation in iraq has far from reached that stadium.

People are protesting against Israel. Note that the left wing rather take and defend the side with the fascists arab leaders and chose not to buy any fruit from Israel. I shall tell you that the Israel goverment wont collapse if you dont but fruit from Isreal no instead a poor socialist kibotz owner will need to close and starve.

do you think that the Israeli aggression against Palestine is just?

in which does the "leftwing" take side with the "fascist arab leaders" when protesting against Israel?

personally, i don't believe in boycot as a way of changing society, but many do so. and when people boycot fruit from Israel, they boycot fruit from Jaffa, which is a very large company, and is crucial to the economy of Israel. so if many people boycot Jaffa then Israeli government will have to care about it. that is the way boycot works.


please, think before you write.

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large_nostril
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Posted: 22nd Mar 2003 01:14
"I don't like protesters in general because they can turn in to a big ugly mob with no brains."

That is generally only after the damn "law enforcers" start beating the crap out of peaceful protestors.

I am completely oposed to the war. It is blatant and unwaranted. Unfortunately, though, I do not see how wide spread protests will help. Bush has made it clear that he does't respect what anyone says about the war.

Fortunately, Bush isn't getting the support he expected. The US is sending 200,000 troops, UK 40,000, Australia 2,000 and I think the next most was 79 (non combat) from Poland(I think it was Poland). Plus we've got air passage rights over Iceland and South Korea (don't ask me how those help).

The CIA and FBI have already started propaganda campaigns in the US. They're releasing articles that suggest that Suddam will be using his own civilians as "human shields". Tell me, just how do human shields protect one from mortar bombardment? I believe it is an attempt to shift the blame for the massive amounts of civilian cassualties in Iraq.

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DangYankee
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Posted: 22nd Mar 2003 01:19 Edited at: 22nd Mar 2003 01:28
Don't ya just love people that quote ya to death and then try to make it personal?
Hey you go on and save the world with love and kindness and hope the bad guy goes away because the UN talked them to death.
I don't like war, anybody who has been in one will tell you. What war was you in?

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The Communist
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Posted: 22nd Mar 2003 01:27 Edited at: 22nd Mar 2003 01:27
DangYankee:
Hey you go on and save the world with love and kindness to all those try to do nothing and hope the bad guy goes away because the UN talked them to death.

comeon, cut it out. did i ever say we should "talk" Saddam to death? huh? no, i said that we should give the iraqi population a chance of getting him off power by themselves, not by the US playing worldpolice and dropping bombs over civilians!

look, i am not a pacifist, but i do NOT believe that killing thousands of iraqis is the right way to achive democracy.

read before you answear, please!

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DangYankee
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Posted: 22nd Mar 2003 01:35 Edited at: 22nd Mar 2003 01:38
OK tell me how you would go about that. Pretend you are in thier position.
You could ask the northern Kurds how that worked out for them.

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Easily Confused
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Posted: 22nd Mar 2003 01:35
Well, after reading all these posts (oh boy do I need a coffee ) I think you all should be more concerned where Bush and his warmongering followers are going to point their guns next.

Any guesses?

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DangYankee
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Posted: 22nd Mar 2003 01:43
Easily Confused- What was your address again? hum Mr. Secretary one more for the list---


Sorry even I have to take a humor break

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The Communist
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Posted: 22nd Mar 2003 01:44
DangYankee:
OK tell me how you would go about that. Pretent you are in thier position.
You could ask the northern Kurds how that worked out for them.


do you really think they got a serious chance of overthrowing Saddam? nope! first, the kurds in the north are not a majority of the people. second, they did not get much support from the world at all.

what i mean is that we remove the sanctions so that the population can actually import food and medicines, then actively support the entire population (via UN) and assisting them in overthrowing Saddam.

Easily Confused:
Any guesses?

my guess goes to north korea, or maybe saudiarabia. they might be allies now (which is strange since saudiarabia is one the most oppressing dictatures in the world, oh well, atleast they sell their oil cheap, something that iraq doesn't) but in order to get total control of the oil then they might have to go at the saudis anyway.

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Andy Igoe
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Posted: 22nd Mar 2003 01:45
Next target could be Turkey if they invade Northern Iraq. It is clear where their allegiance lies as whilst all the allied propaganda makes a big fuss of the overfly rights that they are going to have some time after the conflict ends the fact is Turkey's proposal to invade the Kurds ties up 20,000 co-alition militia in defence of their homeland and completely inhibits operations in the North to airbourne units without close fire support by anything but helicopters and harriers operating on low fuel. This could get out of hand.

Saudi could be next. We know America wants revenge for 9/11 still, but I think this will take time because the UN oil for food programme has to get in full swing before America can risk loosing that alliance.

Iran are clear about where they stand but aren't making too much noise - I think they will be off the hook for a while.

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The Communist
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Posted: 22nd Mar 2003 01:47 Edited at: 22nd Mar 2003 01:58
BTW easily confused, i love that thing in your profile "Area: Earth". that is the sound of a real internationalist! x-d

DangYankee, better put me on that list too

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The Communist
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Posted: 22nd Mar 2003 01:49
what about cuba? castro is getting old...

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DangYankee
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Posted: 22nd Mar 2003 02:00 Edited at: 23rd Mar 2003 05:02
I quit! You are much funnier than I'll ever could be. I just knew I should've stayed out on this one. I'll leave now so I don't crash the party.
But it is good that we can discuss different views, some can't even do that.
I really do think you have good intentions - Communist, but I don't think it is the only view. Later

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