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Geek Culture / Protest against the war!

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haggisman
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Posted: 27th Mar 2003 18:40
Carl Sagan rocks. I especially enjoyed his book "The Demon-Haunted World". Its probably the only book that i have read that changed my views on the world so much.

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Danmatsuma
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Posted: 27th Mar 2003 18:54 Edited at: 27th Mar 2003 21:21
I wonder if Carl would've approved of this explanation:

The "opposite reaction" in a case like a plane hitting something is the molecules of the thing it hit compacting/shearing, nothing is moving backwards other than the exhaust fumes of the plane, BUT:

Inertia present in the plane causes the molecules in the plane to continue moving though the building's inertia slows them down, kinetic action of the plane's molecules colliding with the building's molecules causes them to begin moving in the same direction as the plane,as the same time absorbing energy from the planes molecules (like one of those office toys, with the clicking balls).

The only thing to weaken that action would be an explosion, occurring before the plane was inside the building. That would add new accelerative forces to the debris, causing some of them to shear off the side of the bricks etc rather than plow straight through.


If however the explosion occurred within the building, the pressure inside the building added to the pressure inside the plane and the whole shebang expanding due to heat would have been sufficient to send plenty of debris backward toward the lawn, and with great force too.

I remember the newsreel stuff of the pentagon impact site and it looked to me like the explosion occurred on the face of the building, not inside, and the damage was pretty trivial considering what would have happened had the plane managed to plow through the wall before exploding, as in the case of the towers where the glass provided little resistance to the speeding planes.

Some of the lawn was damaged, but as the explosion itself was travelling at the same speed as the plane, not much debris was directed at the lawn

ZX Spectrum 48k Issue 3, Radio shack Tape drive, Rank arena 12" T.V. set.
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 28th Mar 2003 05:58
just for some minor information, even on fumes a small 2 person propeller aircraft is capable of exploding with the same force as 5 Grenades ... which to put that into some perspective is enough to level 3 Suburban houses and damage quite badly those close by.
Fully fuelled the craft will explode with the same force as a Naplam Bomb with almost the same effect as well.

i'm not disputing saying they exploded the building from the inside - i'm just saying it is not possible for the level of damage or spread from a standard aircraft of that type, because the point is either it would have exploded and cause ALOT more reaction damage on the lawn (and injured passers by! note we never heard anything of anyone being hurt outside of the building) or it would have just continued with such a force that would've damaged more.

Considering the hit is actually pretty bloody well lined up - as it wasn't angled in a particular direction but actually quite flat on the side which would've caused the least damage, its surprising a terrorist would have taken the time to circle around the 3 passes required to get such an airliner to line up well enough... also the speed it would have been going and angle of attack certainly doesn't suggets someone who was trying to kill himself and the rest of the passengers but actually minimise impact.

i don't think this is a hoax - however there are too many questions to simply dismiss that this wasn't a prefabrication. I mean the men of the moon that is a weird one - because alot of that is also very very weird and questions need answering with that ... suchas where the hell are all the stars? (but not gonna get into that)
Kenedy shooting was plain and simple an assasination (and sucessful at that) - it could've been anyone and from ballistics taken from almost any direction within a huge arc. Pitty they never released the exact point of entry direction, because that would've explain exactly where the shot came from.
And aliens governing things, there is so much wrong with that no point even going into eh. (however Bush is certainly not working with a full deck of card, maybe he's been brainwashed hahaa - but then they'd need enough brain to actually wash, put it on too high a tumble dryer setting and could shrink it hahaa)

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
DangYankee
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Posted: 28th Mar 2003 06:54 Edited at: 28th Mar 2003 17:18
You would think the news would be more agressive but Ya know what some are going to find holes in every thing, gaps, incomplete information, misinformation, propaganda, confusion, etc.. talking about conspiracy theories.
Raven--
I am a Democrat not Republican but I do have to give Bush some points, I know he is an easy pot shot, but he does mean what he says. Military does generally favors (R) but I like (D) because of social structure. Having said that he is not stupid,Ok maybe, but he does suround himself with good advisors.
I think that so far I see nothing wrong, it's been a very stressful time for the US, never before .. I take that back we have had times of stress.. but at this time it really hits home.
Whats my point -- well the Bush attack , it like having kids it's OK if you call them names but let someone else.. My wife would rip you a new a**hole.
(forget there ARE KIDS here)

It's not the size of your code but how efficiently you use it!
Arrow
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Posted: 28th Mar 2003 10:53
Not that anybody cares but I'm Independant, I vote on the issues not the party. Too bad I live where people don't give a damn about voter rights, I'm not aloud to vote without belonging to either Rep or Dem. My friend has brought this up before the county bourd but they're morrons.

Am I a butterfly dreaming I'm a man?
Or a bowling ball dreaming I'm a plate of samishi?
Never assume that what you see or feel is real.
Danmatsuma
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Posted: 28th Mar 2003 12:06
Raven:

That's definitely true and is something I think about (for a split second) every time I go for another flying lesson!! But whereas five grenades would usually be thrown by hand, a flying plane is hurtling in a certain direction at speeds possibly in excess of 170mph, and if it explodes, the explosion itself is also travelling in that direction at the same speed, so the force is still directed along the vector of acceleration. You'll remember the copycat incident where a kid flew a cessna into a high rise and it only took out only one room, but had that plane expoloded inside that room, the room itself would form a casing, turning it into a kind of bomb.

I was a bored kid, and my mother was a physics/science teacher. I used to make all kinds of explosions and bombs, and something I learned is this
.
You can be standing next to a small explosion say, one stick of dynamite, and be quite safe, it's the impact of your body upon some solid object which causes the real damage (your ears will be pretty sore too.)(and any kids reading, read on before you rush off to gather dynamite for some fun..)

A bomb is the containment of explosive material within a solid object, so that you have, shrapnel which is the thing that does most of the damage in a low powered bomb like a grenade. It's designed to contain the reaction, and so the lead casing only gives way when this pressure is at it's maximum containable point. The actual explosion within the grenade, (if you were to remove the lead casing first) is quite trivial.

Now (this is why kids!) your body itself can become shrapnel, and do immense damage to other parts of you, but a bomb is specifically a device which maximises the energy transfer from fuel to kinetic movement of a solid, by means of compression.

A plane, is solid, and also pressurised in the case of a jumbo jet, making it in effect, a flying bomb. But still, the area of damage would be quite limited to the area in front of the impact point(or the vector of acceleration) because fuel, plane, compressed air, everything is moving along a line which is governed by acceleration, lifting action of wings and gravity.

If you were to see a plane explode in midair, travelling at great speed, you would note that the only thing left behind the point of explosion was exhaust.

sit an immobile plane next to the pentagon wall, and stick a lit rag in the fuel tank, and things would be quite different!!

Yes, then you'd have (for our intents and purposes) half the force spewing towards the lawn, and the other half invested in the action of destroying the wall.

It's just like if you were on top of a car, and it went off a cliff. You might think to yourself:
"It's o.k, I'll just jump off before it hits the ground"

But as your legs simply cannot propell you off the car fast enough, and since you are travelling towards the ground at exactly the same speed as the car
(drop a pebble and a rock at the same time if you don't believe me) You are mangled with the wreckage just the same as if you'd said to yourself:
"Well, time for one last drag on that ciggarete"

ZX Spectrum 48k Issue 3, Radio shack Tape drive, Rank arena 12" T.V. set.
Danmatsuma
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Posted: 28th Mar 2003 12:15 Edited at: 28th Mar 2003 12:23
Oh, yeah, do you notice how bush seems to be taking a veeeeery .... loooooonng ......Tiimmme ... betweeeen... words?

Surely no american president can be that untalented an orator...

"not working with a full deck of cards" is putting it kindly!!

Let's just say it, they guy is clearly a bloody vegetable, brainwashed is giving him too much credit.

And that goes for John Howard too, who is hanging on the coatails of said vegetable, and furthermore, on a personal level, he looks like an ape with glasses

DangYankee: Better not tell your wife that

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actarus
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Posted: 28th Mar 2003 14:09
-Let's just say it, they guy is clearly a bloody vegetable, brainwashed is giving him too much credit


And I'd guess you're some kind of supreme being by using those intelligent words?

Just remember that you're standing on a planet that's evolving
And revolving at nine hundred miles an hour!
Glennyboy
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Posted: 28th Mar 2003 14:23
Quote: "maybe. but that proves that there is no interest in bringing democracy to Iraq"


I know... that's what I've been saying...

Danmatsuma
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Posted: 28th Mar 2003 15:58
Actarus: I don't believe in supreme beings, just vegetables

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Rob K
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Posted: 28th Mar 2003 16:15
how many people here have actually met George Bush in person though? - That would provide a far more enlighting view of his abilities.

"maybe. but that proves that there is no interest in bringing democracy to Iraq"

Before Blair takes "democracy" to Iraq, maybe he should introduce it to his own country first? - To quote from the papers a few days ago - "So, Blair is attacking an evil dictator who runs a backwards country in absolute poverty and no health service?"

./out

Current Project: Retro Compo. Entry.
DangYankee
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Posted: 28th Mar 2003 17:16
I knew that would get things going again, ha ha, It was getting boring.

It's not the size of your code but how efficiently you use it!
haggisman
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Posted: 28th Mar 2003 17:37
Quote: ""So, Blair is attacking an evil dictator who runs a backwards country in absolute poverty and no health service?""


If you had a choice between living in Iraq or britain which would you choose?

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Martyn Pittuck
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Posted: 28th Mar 2003 18:11 Edited at: 28th Mar 2003 18:12
Britain, the Iraqie troops have been shelling their own people on purpouse

The Outside is a evil place to be, too much light, too much noise and too many distractions....
I went outside once and my FPS rate dropped to 5.
Rob K
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Posted: 28th Mar 2003 18:20
"If you had a choice between living in Iraq or britain which would you choose?"

Iraq of course!

Current Project: Retro Compo. Entry.
Danmatsuma
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Posted: 28th Mar 2003 18:58
This war is boring.

I want my morning cartoons and late night black 'n white movies back.

ZX Spectrum 48k Issue 3, Radio shack Tape drive, Rank arena 12" T.V. set.
DangYankee
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Posted: 28th Mar 2003 19:24
I think Nick has a war free zone, not sure.

The news realy eats this stuff up , it's only been 9 days and it feels like 4 months.

Like waiting for patch 4 and it so it gets done "right" and it still has "casualties".

It's not the size of your code but how efficiently you use it!
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 28th Mar 2003 19:59
the news says far more than just the words being said...
Blair is controlling most of this situation - and it'll be him who gets his way about what to do with Iraq

Bush is just a pawn as simple as that

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
Arrow
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Posted: 28th Mar 2003 20:26
I find it really nostolgic that nearly the same people are involed with both gulf wars, Coln Powl, Dick Chany, and Mr. Bush. This has all the making of a demon conspracy movie.

Am I a butterfly dreaming I'm a man?
Or a bowling ball dreaming I'm a plate of samishi?
Never assume that what you see or feel is real.
DangYankee
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Posted: 28th Mar 2003 20:32 Edited at: 28th Mar 2003 20:33
In the US news and politcal cartoons over here it's portrayed that Blair is kissing Bush's butt and Saddam is kissing his own good bye.

Mr. Bush Jr.

It's not the size of your code but how efficiently you use it!
Danmatsuma
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Posted: 28th Mar 2003 20:38
No, surely it's the corporations who run the governments who are behind it all, safe in their penthouse suites while people like Blair, Bush, Howard and such take all the flack, waiting for further instructions that never come. hehe.

Think about it, you're a young politician, with not much up top but a huge ambition, you come from a wealthy family and they put you through the best schools, introducing you over friday night dinners to some 'great people', who do you favours and help you through the scandals and campaigns, and when you finally hit it big, and become pm or president, they start with the suggestions, beginning with favours, but slowly developing into subtle blackmail... They set you up early with laarge stock portfolios in companies they own, then when the company's in trouble they hit you for some tax dollars, after all it's in your own best interests, and once you do the dirty deed once they've got you by the proverbials.. Not so unrealistic a scenario..

I used to like that show 'yes,Minister'

Wish I had cable...
No I don't, now I remember why I got rid of it in the first place. Perhaps I should get back to programming, after all it's 5:30 am here

ZX Spectrum 48k Issue 3, Radio shack Tape drive, Rank arena 12" T.V. set.
DangYankee
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Posted: 28th Mar 2003 21:37 Edited at: 28th Mar 2003 23:24
Well that was a good lunch break- just made $40.00 bucks reinstalling and bringing back to life a coworker's home computer at work. I told him that I would do it for free. But he said that's how much they wanted downtown and he would rather pay me. Well I tried to be nice...
It's a friday night too, oh boy.
Danmatsuma -- not my wife - don't take it literally (or even the whole post), hmm maybe a mum - it's thats how it's said.

It's not the size of your code but how efficiently you use it!
Danmatsuma
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Posted: 28th Mar 2003 22:30 Edited at: 29th Mar 2003 10:51
I'll hazard a guess as to where that dosh is going
Easy money tastes best when converted directly into alchohol...

Hey dang don't worry 'bout me, I don't take anything seriously, anything at all, it is rather difficult to project a sense of irony over these posts

ZX Spectrum 48k Issue 3, Radio shack Tape drive, Rank arena 12" T.V. set.
LLX
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Posted: 29th Mar 2003 11:22
Quote: "This is a democrosy after all"


A democracy implies a elected offical, i sure as hell didnt vote for Bush, last i check he baught a senator to get in...

haggisman
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Posted: 29th Mar 2003 11:36
Quote: "i sure as hell didnt vote for Bush"


Are you the only guy in america allowed to vote, because you seem to be acting as if its only your vote that counts...

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LLX
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Posted: 29th Mar 2003 11:43
all the peopel i talk to didn't vote for him...and he didnt win by vote, he won by senator

haggisman
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Posted: 29th Mar 2003 12:18
Quote: "all the peopel i talk to didn't vote for him..."


Have you been talking to the entire of the voting population of America? Just because the party you voted for didn't get in doesn't mean the other guy cheated...

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Arrow
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Posted: 29th Mar 2003 21:02
Ok, the USA isn't a democrocy, in a democrocy everyone votes on everything. In the US we vote for people to vote for us, it's a Electoral Dictatorship.

Am I a butterfly dreaming I'm a man?
Or a bowling ball dreaming I'm a plate of samishi?
Never assume that what you see or feel is real.
LLX
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Posted: 29th Mar 2003 21:06
did you even pay atenion to the election, it was decided by a senetor not popular vote

DangYankee
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Posted: 29th Mar 2003 21:29 Edited at: 30th Mar 2003 00:27
No not the Flori-Duh memories. That was such a national embarassment.
I thought the electoral college process was under review in light of technology advancements. But usually that means after I die of old age.
explains how it works.
http://www.fec.gov/pages/ecworks.htm

It's not the size of your code but how efficiently you use it!
haggisman
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Posted: 29th Mar 2003 22:56
Quote: "did you even pay atenion to the election, it was decided by a senetor not popular vote"


What do you mean "it was decided by a senator"?

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LLX
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Posted: 30th Mar 2003 02:04
it means the vote was decided by a politician bush can bribe not the actual ELECTION

Shadow Robert
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Posted: 30th Mar 2003 02:55
it means because the vote count was so screwed up ... oh which state was it in again that it happend? and which state did Governer Bush Jr Govern again?
it was upto the Senate to decide which one gets in.

lmao - if thats a democracy then the UK must be a Super-Democracy
thats the reason Gore pushed for recounts in florida - its because he knew if it was upto a senate decision he'd lost.

gotta feel sorry for Gore

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
DangYankee
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Posted: 30th Mar 2003 09:57 Edited at: 30th Mar 2003 09:57
Quote: "In the US we vote for people to vote for us"
- yes you do and we hold them accountable. At least I do.

It's not the size of your code but how efficiently you use it!
haggisman
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Posted: 30th Mar 2003 11:48
Quote: "it means the vote was decided by a politician bush can bribe not the actual ELECTION
"


And where is the proof? I'm sure Gore can bribe officials as well, but it doesn't mean he does.

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 30th Mar 2003 14:32
Gore was probably the most honest runner they've had in years... i still think the word Democracy and the US Electoral system just don't mix.
That aside, who's to say Bush himself pressured any of the members?

Remember who Bush is backed by, what Iraq is full of, and who had the most to gain (shares perhaps in a large Oil Company) if Bush was elected in - and lets say some international inccident gave the US a free hand to wade into Iraq and play clean up with thier nice cheaper, more abundant, and marketably small Oil.

i mean its all just a quite unfunny coincidence really

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
haggisman
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Posted: 30th Mar 2003 15:50
There isn't any evidence its about oil...

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 31st Mar 2003 06:32
perhaps there is no evidence that people like us could oncover on the internet and have it as a worthy source of information ... however my bet would be that the NID database would have something on this and possibly a few of the companies supporting bush could be "checked out" as it were we'd probably find a few scraggly ends.

sorry but if this was truely about international terrorism there are bigger and better fish to fry, just none are as financially appealing as Iraq... i mean the major target is bin laden right?
who escaped and from intel headed south from afghanistand, and there is a pretty famous range of mountains that guerilla rebels have been entrenched into ... my best bet would say Bin Laden is there trying to figure out his next move - this is provided a few facts are straight and he never got past the US blockade 'unhindered' - seemed fishy how the most wanted man who they had trapped could have so easily got out the country! especially with 2 special force units after him!!

if you need evidence for any claims then really your point of view should be directly opposed to this war that trying to give them a democratic style hearing about if there is no proof there is no crime.
there was NO proof for the weapons of mass destruction Saddam has, only shells which could possibly be altered to carry certain kinds of warheads.
To me thats conjecture more than proof.

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
Martyn Pittuck
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Posted: 31st Mar 2003 09:38
this pointless post still going on?

The Outside is a evil place to be, too much light, too much noise and too many distractions....
I went outside once and my FPS rate dropped to 5.
Glennyboy
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Posted: 31st Mar 2003 11:39
Quote: "perhaps there is no evidence that people like us could oncover"

I think that pretty much says it all.

There isn't. Doesn't seem to stop people, though.

Glennyboy
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Posted: 31st Mar 2003 11:41
Quote: "this pointless post still going on?"

No, you're imagining the whole thing. Thanks for stopping by, though, really appreciate it.

haggisman
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Posted: 31st Mar 2003 12:13
Im just trying to up my post count

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joshualimm
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Posted: 31st Mar 2003 12:53
Really sad that war seems to be the only way out. Bet
everyone hates war! I'm pretty sure that iraqis would be
very angry with US after the missles bombing at the market. Was it

20, 19, 17 or 15 death? couldn't quite remember. It's impossible to have
0 casualties during war, right?!
:~( Going to catch the latest news on tonight's
7 o'clock news. Hope that there aint casualties...
-
12 of my friends actually went to protest few days ago. Said,"
0 result, still". Guess protest simply wont work.



p.s. :May God bless everyone but the bad guys!!
p.s.s : Just hope that everyone can think STRAIGHT!!

Games resurrected Imagination and Creativity.
actarus
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Posted: 1st Apr 2003 00:48
-Guess protest simply wont work

It works when the manifestations aren't ironically VIOLENT

Just remember that you're standing on a planet that's evolving
And revolving at nine hundred miles an hour!
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 1st Apr 2003 02:10
(^_^) ya know the post is still going cause we're now past the initial protest conflict and we're now onto more of a casual chat about some more underlying issues

look at it, to most this war/conflict is about something and its bad because people will die. but those of us who are opposed to it, we're not going to protest to stop it because it is actually a good thing, but who are opposed to it are opposed because we can understand more implications than just "people will die" ... people die everyday from poor healthcare, doesn't mean we should stop giving them healthcare. No what should be done is we sort out the healthcare to be better ... perhaps more accepting than monetry based access.

think now its just a selected few posting replies it is becomming a more civil and laidback post, no?

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
actarus
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Posted: 1st Apr 2003 15:45
I agree with protestations,it's pure democracy,but fact is that they aren't even practicing what they preach.

Very credible I must say.

Just remember that you're standing on a planet that's evolving
And revolving at nine hundred miles an hour!
empty
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Posted: 1st Apr 2003 16:29
They?

Ogres have layers.
actarus
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Posted: 1st Apr 2003 16:31
You know the 'THEY' the ones who hold back the electric car

Just remember that you're standing on a planet that's evolving
And revolving at nine hundred miles an hour!
empty
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Posted: 1st Apr 2003 16:42
Ah you mean the ones who make Steve Guttenberg a star?

Ogres have layers.
actarus
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Location: 32 Light Years away
Posted: 1st Apr 2003 16:51


Just remember that you're standing on a planet that's evolving
And revolving at nine hundred miles an hour!

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