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Work in Progress / Pirates of Port Royale: New Thread

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Gil Galvanti
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2008 22:52
Quote: "Looking good, but the big blue cross in the sky is bothering me o_O If you need some good grass textures i can hook you up, but it'll be later as im in the middle of moving house (just about to pack up this PC in fact )"

You mean the gray/white cross in the middle of the blue sky in the second shot? . Yeah, I know how to fix the vertical line, which is just the seam of the skybox, by using a skysphere, but I don't know what to do with the horizontal because it's the top of the fog object which fades to transparent, but because of DBP's sometimes crappy transparency, it for some reason draws a single line at the top of it .

Quote: "-Better grass...MORE grass textures (A little variation shouldn't hurt at all)"

Yeah, I plan to do that, the only problem is that I'll have to redo my texturing if I want more textures, because as of now textures are done by just having multiple memblock matrices, and to get a certain texture, you just make the one on top of it transparent, so the more textures you have, the more polygon's you have for the terrain .

Quote: "-Higher res skybox! (And delete that huge cross!)"

Yeah, lol, I'll try a sky sphere.

Quote: "Better water texture and transparency*
"
I'll add that, but most likely no shaders, because of the FPS hit they give .


Umbra
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Posted: 24th Apr 2008 01:11
incredible. it is really coming together, you should still consider fixing the mast on the ship though. Remember when you only had 60 fps flat? (is that 2 extra?) ^_^

Gil Galvanti
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Posted: 24th Apr 2008 02:01
Quote: "Remember when you only had 60 fps flat? (is that 2 extra?) ^_^"

Lol, it's not always exactly 60FPS, usually anywhere from 57-67 . Uncapped it is usually around 80-90 though. And thanks, a lot of it is because of you .


Darth Vader
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Posted: 24th Apr 2008 07:43
Looking really good Gil!
Keep it up.


bergice
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Posted: 24th Apr 2008 23:46
Looking awesome, i have been watching this thread for a while, and it is a very interesting project!

But have you decided how you travel the seas?
Will it be a manual control or a fast-travel action?
Gil Galvanti
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Posted: 25th Apr 2008 02:09
Quote: "Looking awesome, i have been watching this thread for a while, and it is a very interesting project!
"

Thanks .

Quote: "But have you decided how you travel the seas?"

Yeah, through boats and/or ships, you sail.

Quote: "Will it be a manual control or a fast-travel action?"

Definitely manual, and I'm contemplating a possible fast-travel option.


Inspire
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Posted: 25th Apr 2008 02:18 Edited at: 25th Apr 2008 02:19
I have a basic grass texture I made a while ago on my computer, you (or anybody else reading this thread) can have it if they find it to their liking...it's seamless, by the way.

I can give it to you in 1024 x 1024 if you would like.





Deagle
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Posted: 25th Apr 2008 21:58
It's quite big just for a ground texture..

Deagle aka D-Eagle
Gil Galvanti
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Posted: 25th Apr 2008 22:08
Quote: "I have a basic grass texture I made a while ago on my computer, you (or anybody else reading this thread) can have it if they find it to their liking...it's seamless, by the way.

I can give it to you in 1024 x 1024 if you would like."

Thanks, I'll try it out in game and see how it looks .

Quote: "It's quite big just for a ground texture.."

Lol, all you have to do is resize it in an image editing program .


nackidno
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Posted: 25th Apr 2008 22:34
Quote: "It's quite big just for a ground texture.."


512x512 is normal for a texture

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Roxas
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Posted: 25th Apr 2008 22:37
256x256 is good aswell if you dont want too detailed.. Or 192x192

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tha_rami
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Posted: 26th Apr 2008 00:13
Quote: "Definitely manual, and I'm contemplating a possible fast-travel option."

Damn you, Gil!


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Gil Galvanti
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Posted: 26th Apr 2008 02:08
Quote: "Quote: "Definitely manual, and I'm contemplating a possible fast-travel option."
Damn you, Gil!"

Lol, I knew you wouldn't like the idea, which is part of the reason I'm contemplating putting it in . Maybe I'll make a "Rami" mode where you can't and I put everything else in that only you like .


tha_rami
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Posted: 26th Apr 2008 02:37
Ah, great


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Cian Rice
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Posted: 26th Apr 2008 04:09
<.<

Just because it's there doesn't mean you have to use it.

Anyways... I'm really tempted to post some thing but don't know if I should or not? Maybe you catch my drift?

tha_rami
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Posted: 26th Apr 2008 07:18
I hate that answer. Just because it's there doesn't mean you have to use it. If someone put an option in GTA 4 to instantly beat the game with all achievements unlocked, doesn't mean you have to use it.

Fast-travel massively undoes the goal of a RPG - exploration and character building.


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Darth Kiwi
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Posted: 26th Apr 2008 13:18
Maybe you can fast-travel if you pay a fee? That way people will try to avoid it but it'll still be an option.

I'm not actually a Kiwi, I just randomly thought it up one day.
Gil Galvanti
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Posted: 26th Apr 2008 19:50
Quote: "If someone put an option in GTA 4 to instantly beat the game with all achievements unlocked, doesn't mean you have to use it."

It's called a cheat, which most games have. Doesn't mean you have to use it .

Quote: "Fast-travel massively undoes the goal of a RPG - exploration and character building."

Not if you choose not to fast-travel .

Quote: "Maybe you can fast-travel if you pay a fee? That way people will try to avoid it but it'll still be an option."

That might be an option, I'll consider it .


tha_rami
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Posted: 26th Apr 2008 19:55
In my opinion, cheats undo the value of progress and advancement. The knowledge of them existing instantly devaluates whatever effort you put into a game. Cheats unlocked by playing through the game, as your "Holy Grail" Call of Duty 4 shows. That way, it actually gives extra value to the effort and progress.


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Gil Galvanti
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Posted: 26th Apr 2008 20:09
Quote: "In my opinion, cheats undo the value of progress and advancement. The knowledge of them existing instantly devaluates whatever effort you put into a game."

I don't understand why it matters in a singleplayer game, everyone's experience is their own.

Quote: "Cheats unlocked by playing through the game, as your "Holy Grail" Call of Duty 4 shows."

CoD4 isn't my "Holy Grail" *strokes the case repeating "my precious"* .

Quote: "That way, it actually gives extra value to the effort and progress."

Okay, what if I made it to where you could only fast travel to places you've been? Does anyone (besides Rami and I) think this is a good idea?


Ortu
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Posted: 26th Apr 2008 20:28
Quote: "Okay, what if I made it to where you could only fast travel to places you've been? Does anyone (besides Rami and I) think this is a good idea?"


yes. unlocking a quick jump location by exploring out to it first seems a reasonable balance between content and convenience. Especially for a pirate themed game, players should be expected to spend at least some time sailing about on the high seas.

jason p sage
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Posted: 26th Apr 2008 20:32
ITS A GAME! LOL

You Decide Gil! you can make it an option, togglable, or only allow REAL TIME travel, or Allow Fast travel to visited places, its all personal taste I think... I mean.. One could argue that "fast travel" doesn't allow you to react to battles... or maybe fast travel SLOWS to real time when near enemy... Or Maybe user can control the passage of time TimeX2,x4,x8... and when ANYTHING of interst happens... mermaid, trade ship, bad guy, storm, then you can give user chance to slow down - preferably a pause like dialog window.. incase they are pouring coffee when the baddie appears LOL

Maybe make night travel have less a warning.. as the scout in the crow's nest might not notice the baddie until up close, same for fog.

Well whatever you decide, I'm sure its going to Rock!

BTW.. I'm one of those guys who hates cheat codes UNLESS the author purposely made levels where its 100 to 1 - them against you, and you have only 20 shots and no Repair/rearm options. (Apache Air Assault)

nackidno
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Posted: 26th Apr 2008 20:32
Use the fast travel system that was used in Morrowind. Talk with a guy, pay the fee and you get to the place you wanted to get to. Though it has to be a travel network so that you can't travel EVERYWHERE from ANYWHERE.

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draknir_
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Posted: 27th Apr 2008 20:17
Fast travel can be god send in games with big areas to cover, because it is incredibly frustrating when a game forces you to slog through the same damn area you've already explored a million times (i recently played KoTOR2, and its a big problem in that game). So my suggestion would be allow fast travel to any major location you've already visited. Dont have fast travel for every house or minor location though.
Roxas
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Posted: 27th Apr 2008 20:47
I suggest to make so that when you find new place then you can fast travel there with fee off course.

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tha_rami
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Posted: 28th Apr 2008 00:44
I agree with the Morrowind suggestion or what Roxas and others say.


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Gil Galvanti
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Posted: 28th Apr 2008 03:04
Quote: "yes. unlocking a quick jump location by exploring out to it first seems a reasonable balance between content and convenience. Especially for a pirate themed game, players should be expected to spend at least some time sailing about on the high seas."

Yeah, I definitely want to encourage exploration.

Quote: "Well whatever you decide, I'm sure its going to Rock!"

Lol, thanks, hopefully it will .

Quote: "Use the fast travel system that was used in Morrowind. Talk with a guy, pay the fee and you get to the place you wanted to get to. Though it has to be a travel network so that you can't travel EVERYWHERE from ANYWHERE."

Yeah, I can't decide if I want to let the player go anywhere for free (if they have a boat/ship) or if I want to make the player go in a network and if so, should they pay a fee even if they have a ship?

Quote: "So my suggestion would be allow fast travel to any major location you've already visited. Dont have fast travel for every house or minor location though."

Yeah, I'm thinking this is what I'll do.

Quote: "I suggest to make so that when you find new place then you can fast travel there with fee off course."

I can't decide on the fee thing, especially when you have a ship.

Quote: "I agree with the Morrowind suggestion or what Roxas and others say."

Good .


Profit
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Posted: 28th Apr 2008 04:08 Edited at: 28th Apr 2008 04:09
You could make it so once the player purchases a town map (or something to this effect) at the port, they are allowed to fast-travel there.

If you want to add an additional fast-travel fee, it could simulate the cost of a crew and/or supplies.

All these extra costs will surely discourage most players from using this "cheat".

Satchmo
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Posted: 28th Apr 2008 04:29
You could do it diablo style, and have beacons, and when you get to a beacon it unlocks and you can travel to any other beacon from it.


Dr Manette
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Posted: 28th Apr 2008 05:14
I agree with the "taxi" service people suggested, where you pay to go somewhere. Obviously only select locations would be on these routes. But as an option, maybe you could eventually buy a horse and carriage of some kind so you would no longer have to pay any fees?

Fast travel is necessary if you want big environments; it'll cut down on frustration. But tha_rami is right, too much freedom with fast traveling is bad.

Roxas
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Posted: 28th Apr 2008 15:47
FFXI had Teleportation service.. When you did supplies quest to diffrent regions outpost in certain time.. You could then always telport to that outpost with 100 gil fee

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Bizar Guy
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Posted: 28th Apr 2008 16:14
My suggestion is to have is so you can fast travel to any major place you've been to, and the only cost is that while you're fast traveling game time acts as though you took the whole time to travel, and everything that entails (having a fast travel fee makes no sense if you own the ship). Also, if something happened on the sea while you're fast traveling, I would have it pull you out of fast travel to deal with it. Like say a random variable said you were being attacked by pirates or the navy or something. If you didn't ow a ship or didn't want to use it, I'd say have the network option, where you get a ride on a ship to one of the other islands for a fee. And with that having fast travel would only hake sense, as you have no control over the ship to begin with.

Or something like that.

Darth Kiwi
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Posted: 28th Apr 2008 19:37
Perhaps fast-travelling would take, say, 150% as long as if you'd just travelled there "properly"? As a penalty. But this would only work if there is some kind of time-limit on, for example, the main quest.

I'm not actually a Kiwi, I just randomly thought it up one day.
draknir_
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Posted: 28th Apr 2008 20:15
The problem with the fee system in my eyes, is that on its own its too limiting, especially to role playing. What if I want to role play a complete bastard who steals, murders and robs everyone and everything? It wouldnt make much sense for me to then pay up nicely to take a taxi row boat to the next harbor A fee based system should IMO be a subsystem of the fast travelling, not the only option. As for travel when you own your own ship, I think it should involve decision making on what crew and supplies to take.
Bizar Guy
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Posted: 28th Apr 2008 20:18
not really, not if you have needs that increase with time, say your crew gets paid by how long a trip takes, or you need to eat, and end up using more resources. Say your ship wears fast from being on the open sea longer, and so needs more repairs. There are all sorts of way of balancing a quick travel option without blatantly annoying the the player. Once you've traveled a part of the sea once, the game shouldn't be that hard on you for wanting to spend your time on other parts of the game. In fact, as long as you can only travel to main areas, and have all the minor areas reachable from there, you'll have plenty of sea travel without forcing the player to do so much sea faring that they get sick of it.

tha_rami
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Posted: 29th Apr 2008 00:19
Agree with Bizar's suggestion.


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Gil Galvanti
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Posted: 29th Apr 2008 05:40
Quote: "You could make it so once the player purchases a town map (or something to this effect) at the port, they are allowed to fast-travel there.

If you want to add an additional fast-travel fee, it could simulate the cost of a crew and/or supplies.

All these extra costs will surely discourage most players from using this "cheat"."

Even if I don't do that, that brings up another question as to whether or not I should have a mini-map at all, only have it when you have a map, have a map screen always, or have a map screen only when you have a map.

Quote: "I agree with the "taxi" service people suggested, where you pay to go somewhere. Obviously only select locations would be on these routes. But as an option, maybe you could eventually buy a horse and carriage of some kind so you would no longer have to pay any fees?"

Yeah, there will be horses (already are) and probably carriages, and I'm leaning towards the "taxi" service, but now the question as to whether you should pay and what the disadvantages should be (if any) if you DO own a ship...

Quote: "Perhaps fast-travelling would take, say, 150% as long as if you'd just travelled there "properly"? As a penalty. But this would only work if there is some kind of time-limit on, for example, the main quest."

Yeah, like you said, the problem would be that the game would have to be more time-based than I would like .

Quote: "The problem with the fee system in my eyes, is that on its own its too limiting, especially to role playing. What if I want to role play a complete bastard who steals, murders and robs everyone and everything? It wouldnt make much sense for me to then pay up nicely to take a taxi row boat to the next harbor A fee based system should IMO be a subsystem of the fast travelling, not the only option. As for travel when you own your own ship, I think it should involve decision making on what crew and supplies to take."

Lol, well I guess you could solve that by first stealing a ship, then claiming it, meaning you would own it, and not have to pay a fee. But what I'm not sure in is whether there should be costs like have been mentioned with crews and supplies.

Quote: "not really, not if you have needs that increase with time, say your crew gets paid by how long a trip takes, or you need to eat, and end up using more resources. Say your ship wears fast from being on the open sea longer, and so needs more repairs. There are all sorts of way of balancing a quick travel option without blatantly annoying the the player. Once you've traveled a part of the sea once, the game shouldn't be that hard on you for wanting to spend your time on other parts of the game. In fact, as long as you can only travel to main areas, and have all the minor areas reachable from there, you'll have plenty of sea travel without forcing the player to do so much sea faring that they get sick of it.
"

Yeah, I definitely don't want to force the player to do something, but I also want to encourage something they might not have done otherwise (exploration/sailing). I like the idea that the longer the trip, the more the costs for things.


Bizar Guy
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Posted: 29th Apr 2008 17:59
Quote: "Yeah, I definitely don't want to force the player to do something, but I also want to encourage something they might not have done otherwise (exploration/sailing). I like the idea that the longer the trip, the more the costs for things."

Just be careful with that though, people wont want to explore too much if they just watch their money drain away. It should be easier to avoid most of the things that would coast money if you sail yourself... I think. My main familiarity with fast travel is RS, Fable, and Zelda games. In Zelda you have to go somewhere and activate something some how always, in Fable you just need to have been some place with a teleporter, and in RS you need to have a specific set of runes to cast the teleportation spell, and a high enough level.

Darth Kiwi
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Posted: 29th Apr 2008 19:05
draknir's idea that fee-paying may be out of character is valid: I suppose you could solve this by having the player fast travel via the taxi service for "free", then when they get to their destination they get out of the carriage and the "taxi driver" asks for their fee. Then the player can run, kill them, feed them to his parrot...

Of course, the problem is that this then creates EVEN MORE questions and problems for Gil.

I'm not actually a Kiwi, I just randomly thought it up one day.
Gil Galvanti
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Posted: 30th Apr 2008 07:57 Edited at: 30th Apr 2008 07:59
Quote: "Just be careful with that though, people wont want to explore too much if they just watch their money drain away. It should be easier to avoid most of the things that would coast money if you sail yourself... I think. My main familiarity with fast travel is RS, Fable, and Zelda games. In Zelda you have to go somewhere and activate something some how always, in Fable you just need to have been some place with a teleporter, and in RS you need to have a specific set of runes to cast the teleportation spell, and a high enough level."

Yeah, good point. Lol, I didn't realize how hard deciding how to balance fast travel would be .
Quote: "
draknir's idea that fee-paying may be out of character is valid: I suppose you could solve this by having the player fast travel via the taxi service for "free", then when they get to their destination they get out of the carriage and the "taxi driver" asks for their fee. Then the player can run, kill them, feed them to his parrot..."

Yeah, good idea, pay afterwards (or not, if you choose ).

Quote: "Of course, the problem is that this then creates EVEN MORE questions and problems for Gil. "

Lol, questions and problems are part of game creation, so no big deal .

Anyways, thanks for the feedback everyone! The tremendous outpour of support really encourages and motivates me, good to know so many people are watching and liking what they see . I'm working on it almost daily, just got pathfinding done a couple days ago(with some thanks due to Cash Curtis) and it works great. Now I'm working on going through all the quests and making them in the world editor, creating what I need for them as I go along, which I figure is the best method to get things done. So far so good, lol, 1 quest down (which let me fix about 3 bugs just in itself), about 50 to go .


bergice
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Posted: 30th Apr 2008 21:11
Quote: "Anyways, thanks for the feedback everyone! The tremendous outpour of support really encourages and motivates me, good to know so many people are watching and liking what they see . I'm working on it almost daily"


Well of course we are watching this thread!
I mean, its a pirate game!
What would you expect?

And a cool thing would be if there where many quests to be done and all, so you wont get bored of it *nod*
Gil Galvanti
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Posted: 30th Apr 2008 21:13
Quote: "And a cool thing would be if there where many quests to be done and all, so you wont get bored of it *nod*"

There will, about 12 per profession (5 professions), so hopefully about 60 total . And after that (or in between) you can also just do whatever you want like you would in Oblivion since it's an open-ended RPG.


bergice
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Posted: 30th Apr 2008 21:30
Wow, i hope you achieve that goal man!
That would be so cool.

What are you currently working on now?
Bizar Guy
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Posted: 1st May 2008 00:23
I think you should also have a set of standard quests, basic things like some random guy might need you to do something, that reoccur every so often, so that you never really get to a point where you have nothing to do. Just a suggestion, as it seems with your quest maker really basic event quests like that would be easy to make. If you had say just 3-6 of them that were different enough, that would REALLLLLY extend the gameplay. Just a suggestion though, as I think it makes for a more believable world (as in it feels more like a living place).

Gil Galvanti
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Posted: 1st May 2008 00:48
Quote: "What are you currently working on now?"

Going through those 60 quests and creating them in the world editor, testing and adding events and triggers and fixing bugs or adding things as I go and need them .

Quote: "I think you should also have a set of standard quests, basic things like some random guy might need you to do something, that reoccur every so often, so that you never really get to a point where you have nothing to do. Just a suggestion, as it seems with your quest maker really basic event quests like that would be easy to make. If you had say just 3-6 of them that were different enough, that would REALLLLLY extend the gameplay. Just a suggestion though, as I think it makes for a more believable world (as in it feels more like a living place)."

Yeah, I'll consider that, depending on how hard it turns out to be .


bergice
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Posted: 1st May 2008 01:07
Make sure to keep the quests entertaining and exciting.
I love games which i cant solve.
Mostly because then i know there is something i have not yet expererienced or seen.
And add some extra cool rewards if you do a hard quest

Just suggestions tough


jason p sage
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Posted: 1st May 2008 01:22
Along these lines, Gil, if you have a set of rules... like "Triggers Work This Way" and have various trigger points that require X,y,z to count as quest finish, I wonder if you should take a look at a game called Fate. Its a dungeon crawler - which is not my favorite Genre but this one I found REALLY REALLY fun... Why? Various reasons, but I think you REALLY REALLY should take a couple hours and play it to see what I'm talking about.


It basically SEEMS to have a built in database where if you are on say level 1, and go to the towns folk, and ask for a quest, they give you one on a level you haven't gone to yet... to kill #?# of Creatures named "???" and the reward is "????" ... and basically its different each time.

I wonder how hard it would be to make the "quests" sort of a "Database of "Stuff" that gets randomly generated through some "Pirates of Port Royale" system you write, so that there are both your Canned Quests, and completely dynamic ones.

One feature many programmers don't take advantage of that they did in "Fate" and I LOVE it... is when you have a particular random seed at "Game Start" and "Generate" the game with that, it can be done in such a way that all the quests are generated right then, the levels all "initialized" etc... so that game in unique.. HOWEVER recreatable with the same Random Seed.

Just Random Thoughts... Hopefully I don't reuse the same random seed.. that'd make me a broken record

Good Luck.

Gil Galvanti
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Joined: 22nd Dec 2004
Location: Texas, United States
Posted: 2nd May 2008 06:26
Quote: "Make sure to keep the quests entertaining and exciting.
I love games which i cant solve.
Mostly because then i know there is something i have not yet expererienced or seen.
And add some extra cool rewards if you do a hard quest

Just suggestions tough "

I'll try to keep a variety of quests within the professions so they don't seem repetitive .

Quote: "Along these lines, Gil, if you have a set of rules... like "Triggers Work This Way" and have various trigger points that require X,y,z to count as quest finish, I wonder if you should take a look at a game called Fate. Its a dungeon crawler - which is not my favorite Genre but this one I found REALLY REALLY fun... Why? Various reasons, but I think you REALLY REALLY should take a couple hours and play it to see what I'm talking about.


It basically SEEMS to have a built in database where if you are on say level 1, and go to the towns folk, and ask for a quest, they give you one on a level you haven't gone to yet... to kill #?# of Creatures named "???" and the reward is "????" ... and basically its different each time.

I wonder how hard it would be to make the "quests" sort of a "Database of "Stuff" that gets randomly generated through some "Pirates of Port Royale" system you write, so that there are both your Canned Quests, and completely dynamic ones.

One feature many programmers don't take advantage of that they did in "Fate" and I LOVE it... is when you have a particular random seed at "Game Start" and "Generate" the game with that, it can be done in such a way that all the quests are generated right then, the levels all "initialized" etc... so that game in unique.. HOWEVER recreatable with the same Random Seed.

Just Random Thoughts... Hopefully I don't reuse the same random seed.. that'd make me a broken record "

Hmm...I'll consider making something like that, but it seems like it would make them too repetitive and boring .


bergice
16
Years of Service
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Joined: 5th Jun 2007
Location: Oslo,Norway
Posted: 3rd May 2008 15:42
An update soon Gil?

I am so interested in this game you see

Gil Galvanti
19
Years of Service
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Joined: 22nd Dec 2004
Location: Texas, United States
Posted: 3rd May 2008 19:12 Edited at: 3rd May 2008 19:15
Quote: "An update soon Gil?"

Lol, we'll see, right now I'm just doing quest stuff, so there's not many new gameplay features to show .

I did come up with another name for my development stuff other than New Age Games (which I've never been crazy about), so now I am...


Which means "New World" in Latin for those who don't know .


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