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Work in Progress / World Off Road

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baxslash
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Posted: 7th Feb 2011 10:01 Edited at: 7th Feb 2011 10:05
Quote: "Was still kinda half waiting for baxslash to release his skysphere maker"

You can make skyspheres with EnviroScope now... as of about two or three months ago I think.

My last comment to you on the thread was:
Quote: "Give me a shout if you can't find a working version and I'll post an updated one.

Feel free to Email me... "


I assume you couldn't find a working version so I'll sort one out for you now

EDIT: Here's the latest download (I'll test it now) EnviroScope

C0wbox
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Posted: 7th Feb 2011 14:19 Edited at: 7th Feb 2011 14:19
Oh right - I just assumed because it wasn't in PA it wasn't finished.

Did you add in the faster rendering process I think someone suggested. (Instead of having it use point everywhere the camera was looking :S)

baxslash
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Posted: 7th Feb 2011 14:23
Quote: "Oh right - I just assumed because it wasn't in PA it wasn't finished."

No you're right, it isn't finished. It does work for producing skyspheres though. It should do what you need.

Quote: "Did you add in the faster rendering process I think someone suggested. (Instead of having it use point everywhere the camera was looking"

Funnily enough I just asked SvenB if there was a quicker way using image kit but no answer as yet... I am currently working on the render engine for spheres just for you. I've reduced render times by about 15% but it still takes a long time.

I'm hoping that "IK Point" might be a faster alternative. I'll keep you posted.

C0wbox
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Posted: 7th Feb 2011 15:01
Ok well, I've tried it and got some crit so I'll put it on the actual thread instead of here.

baxslash
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Posted: 7th Feb 2011 17:58
Quote: "Ok well, I've tried it and got some crit so I'll put it on the actual thread instead of here."

Hope you got my reply. As I said over there I'd be happy to have a try at getting your terrain and trees working then maybe I can show you step by step how I got it working?

Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 8th Feb 2011 02:46

^^look^^

Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first place. Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you are, by definition, not smart enough to debug it.
The Slayer
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Posted: 8th Feb 2011 21:24 Edited at: 8th Feb 2011 21:30
Just to whet everyone's appetite a bit more, here's a screenie of Trent in Truespace. Enjoy!



Cheers

SLAYER RULES! YEAH, MAN!!
C0wbox
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Posted: 8th Feb 2011 21:43 Edited at: 9th Feb 2011 02:32
Here's 2 screenshots for everyone to compare. - One of v0.18 and one of what will become v0.19.



Major changes include:
* Bitmap fonts
* Ground shading
* Better car shading
* New physics engine
* A new zone
* Revamped cars
* New menus
* New ingame menus
* Scoreboard uploading (although this will be turned off by default as it's not finished yet) - to be finished in a later version
* Fixed bugs like the old switching of the steering as soon as you're pressing backwards rather than when you are going backwards.

Screenshots of the new menus


Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 9th Feb 2011 02:28
That screeny looks awesome! And the comparison is cool aswell

Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first place. Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you are, by definition, not smart enough to debug it.
Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 9th Feb 2011 06:54
C0wbox, you are genius. I think those little planet things are what you meant by a 'snazzy' menu! I likey Now is that the model you actually race on? I imagine not...

Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first place. Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you are, by definition, not smart enough to debug it.
baxslash
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Posted: 9th Feb 2011 09:59
Love the car Slayer!

The menu is an awesome idea C0wbox, really nice. This is really coming together.



C0wbox
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Posted: 9th Feb 2011 15:12
@ Dark basic dude79
No no, don't be fooled, the planet is just where you choose the maps. - They'll still be played on terrain objects. xD

@ baxslash
Yeah that map choosing menu was a bitch to code, I'm GLaD the bulk of it's out the way so I can concentrate on prettying it and making everything else.

The Slayer
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Posted: 9th Feb 2011 16:46
Quote: "That screeny looks awesome!"

Thanks, Dark basic dude79! So, are you still not convinced that Truespace is a great program?

Quote: "Love the car Slayer!"

I appreciate it, baxslash! Thanks.

SLAYER RULES! YEAH, MAN!!
Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 9th Feb 2011 23:43
Well i dont remember saying i didnt think it was a great program... But yes i am convinced that it is an awesome program!! Is it free, how much if not? See i model in Wings 3D, and it's the first of all the software ive tried that seems intuitive and understandable to me. What is the modelling style of Truespace? Is it like most modelers? Now i MuSt look up Truespace all because of YOU!!! Nah, twill be fun to look it up!

Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first place. Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you are, by definition, not smart enough to debug it.
C0wbox
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Posted: 12th Feb 2011 23:55 Edited at: 12th Feb 2011 23:57
!!!

Only one more vehicle to go before you guys can have a play with the super-duper-awesome-higher-quality version 0.19 of WOR. - It seriously pwns v0.18 so hard it makes me look like a bad developer for ever releasing v0.18 xD

But yeah, we've finally remade Tense.

Here are some super-duper-awesome-higher-quality pictures to look at:


Oh and here's a picture I put together showing how much Tense changed from v0.01 to v0.19:


Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 13th Feb 2011 01:30
New Tense=cool. !!!

Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first place. Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you are, by definition, not smart enough to debug it.
Daygamer
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Posted: 13th Feb 2011 22:01
COwbox, If you put out a zip of v0.19, I would love to try it. Can't wait! This game almost looks done. Are you wrapping it up any time soon?

yrotate when you can spin?
God Bless!
C0wbox
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Posted: 13th Feb 2011 22:37
Yeah I'll be putting out .rar and .zip of v0.19 when it comes out.

So far we only have one more car to do before v0.19 is ready. - So it'll take as long as it takes to get that car done.

Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 14th Feb 2011 03:42
And i imagine it will be using the Dark Dynamics wrapper?

Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first place. Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you are, by definition, not smart enough to debug it.
C0wbox
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Posted: 14th Feb 2011 04:20 Edited at: 14th Feb 2011 04:23
Unless I redo the entire engine between now and then, yes it will be using DarkDynamiX.

Because it works flawlessly 90% of the time. - Whereas DarkPhysics has never worked properly as I found out in Vision, the first project I tried using it in.

Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 14th Feb 2011 04:36
Sweet! I will then be able to run WOR! So i can experience what you have been up to other than the menu screen and pictures. Nice job, C0wobx!

Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first place. Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you are, by definition, not smart enough to debug it.
C0wbox
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Posted: 16th Feb 2011 01:02 Edited at: 16th Feb 2011 01:02
Alllright WOR fans, we've finally got all 5 cars remade.

Here's a picture of how Monster looks:


I'll just be adding some finishing touches to v0.19 and we should be good to go in the next hour or so (unless I die of something in the meantime)

So sit tight, the long awaited v0.19 is soon to be yours.

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Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 16th Feb 2011 03:28
Nice!!!! WOR is going to be a good game finished, i can just see it.

Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first place. Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you are, by definition, not smart enough to debug it.
C0wbox
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Posted: 16th Feb 2011 03:44 Edited at: 16th Feb 2011 07:00
World Off Road v0.19 !!!

We finally did it, we redid all the media and the engine and just about everything in between. - World Off Road v0.19 is basically completely to v0.18 and the list of things we've changed goes on forever.

As with v0.18 the multiplayer is still a bit loose and badly structured but it'll improve eventually (v0.20+).

Here are some of the last pictures I took of v0.19 (the rest everyone's already seen as I posted the progress)


And here's the trailer I've been waiting to make for a bajillion years xD


v0.19
.rar
.zip

Don't have too much fun now.


Daygamer
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Posted: 16th Feb 2011 05:40
Downloading now!!!! I've stayed up too late already so I'll try it tomorrow, hopefully. Can't wait!

yrotate when you can spin?
God Bless!
Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 16th Feb 2011 06:04
Awesome! Downloading now! Oh it says an hour--now 2 hours--now 1 hour Now 39 min.

Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first place. Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you are, by definition, not smart enough to debug it.
baxslash
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Posted: 16th Feb 2011 10:15
Great! Downloading now...

I only have one very minor crit from the video (very impressive BTW). I thought the camera seemed a little too tight to the car. If it was a little more loose the movement wouldn't seem so twitchy, know what I mean? A smooth camera movement can hide a multitude of sins.

Looks great though!! The terrains are cool

C0wbox
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Posted: 16th Feb 2011 10:28
Yeah smoother cameras are something I'll look into like right at the very end probably. Next up is adding back in the first person view but having it hide the car so we don't have to model the interiors. (There'll probably be other positions for the camera as well )

baxslash
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Posted: 16th Feb 2011 10:48 Edited at: 16th Feb 2011 10:48
Quote: "Yeah smoother cameras are something I'll look into like right at the very end probably."

I normally use one simple bit of code to get smoother movement. Assuming camX#, camY#, and camZ# are the position you would like the camera to aim for (whatever they would be without smoothing):


You probably already have some similar code but I thought I'd show my code for this.

dark coder
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Posted: 16th Feb 2011 13:29
I've just played the latest version a bit and I have some suggestions:

- Either I'm crazy(likely), or the game for me is running at about half the speed at which I see in your video, i.e. at 50MPH my car seems to move much slower. In game I'm getting about 40FPS and 20 in the menu(dunno why it's so low), I suspect this is an issue with how you update the physics time steps

- You really need to add in suspension, right now the cars all feel like sliding cubes with a fancy model

- You should detect the desktop resolution when selecting fullscreen, in fact, every DBPro game ever made should do this

- The trees on the alpine levels have really bad transparent borders, you should use a 1-bit transparency mode to avoid this

- Your water refraction camera pass really needs to use a clip-map to prevent drawing things above the water line, right now if you look at an object like a tree that's in front of the water then you can see it being refracted on the surface

- There is a discrepancy between the window size and the draw resolution; it appears as though you're calling 'set window size' after 'set display mode' using the same values, this is incorrect because windows have borders that you aren't accounting for, causing the output to be down-sampled

Those are the main issues I noticed, if the speed issue was fixed and the suspension were added then that would go a long way to making it incredibly fun. Maybe then some kind of turbo button would be awesome, like Big Red Racing!

Matty H
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Posted: 16th Feb 2011 16:42
Just played it, very impressive Cowbox

Quote: "Either I'm crazy(likely), or the game for me is running at about half the speed at which I see in your video, i.e. at 50MPH my car seems to move much slower. In game I'm getting about 40FPS and 20 in the menu(dunno why it's so low), I suspect this is an issue with how you update the physics time steps"


I too have this issue.
@Cowbox - at the moment the Physics default is to update 1/60th of a second each call to simulate, I will add a command to either set the timestep or I will have the 'simulate' function take a timestep parameter. A simple way of getting the physics consistant across different computers may look something like this:


Adding forces to the vehicle might also need to take FPS into account, the lower the FPS the less force is being applied and may affect how the game plays, I think.


Amazing game though, played split screen with my son and he loved it, will be even better when it runs faster like in the video.

Daygamer
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Posted: 16th Feb 2011 19:49
Good stuff, COwbox! The menu is great. The cars feel awesome. Multiplayer is solid. Keep it up!

yrotate when you can spin?
God Bless!
C0wbox
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Posted: 16th Feb 2011 20:21 Edited at: 16th Feb 2011 20:22
@ baxslash
Yeah I've got some smoothy code it's just getting it to apply because PhysX messes up the angles of rigid bodies making projecting where the camera is going to be horrible. xD

@ dark coder
Actually you may find the physics code is rather neat and the slowdown is being caused by the 30,000 odd triangles being rendered once for the main cam, again for the refraction in the water and having 5 realtime shadows cast onto it.

Try turning your graphics settings down in the options menu and seeing what FPS you get then. - I forgot to mention you need to restart WOR if you change the half of the options there. (Also ensure you're getting the FPS from ` graph so I can actually use it because I don't trust Fraps - it's wrong whenever I've had a readout from it. )

Yeah unless matty halewood gives me the simplest solution ever to suspension there really isn't anything I can do about that at all without making the cars overly complicated and buggy.

I may set it to put the desktop res in the resolution box when you click the button to make it go fullscreen. - It just makes it fullscreen to the resolution in those top 2 boxes.

The trees on all the levels (and the checkpoints and bridges) have really bad transparency. - The reason for this is so I could do the maps quickly because in previous version every tree was placed in the WOR engine after having its shadow rendered in T.ED. - Then I realised I could export the props as one object. However, it's using transparency mode 5 on everything to ensure the trees look right. This messes up the shadows on the things that aren't trees and means they all look silly as well.

In the next version I will be separating the trees back up so I can put the LOD engine back in (increasing performance dramatically) and solving a load of shadow/transparency bugs at the same time.

Do you have any suggestion as to how I would make a clip-map?

Are you saying I should just set display mode and window it without resizing it? - Will that work? ?



As well as all that I would like to point out that in a later version I will be increasing the cars speeds as the maps get larger.

@ matty halewood
You're here! - I couldn't tell because your name's different. xD


For everyone else - This is the guy responsible for saving World Off Road and ridding us of the horrible evil that was DarkPhysics. - We still have some bugs and stuff but it's a heck of a lot better than it was. xD - Everyone say thanks matty.


@ Daygamer
Ooo, multiplayer is solid is it? xD - That's something we've not been working on much - did you test online multiplayer or just splitscreen? :S

Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 17th Feb 2011 02:07
Nice game! ...But it runs really slow on my computer. Really slow. The menu has a hard time even detecting what my mouse is over.... I set the options down so that there was no water, very low screen res, etc, but i was still getting around 70 mph... Keep in mind you will have to use that fps management code i gave you a while back, lol! Other than that, totally awesome game, the graphics look nice! if i somehow find a better computer one of these days.... Also the menus were rather epic!

Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first place. Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you are, by definition, not smart enough to debug it.
C0wbox
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Posted: 17th Feb 2011 02:15
Yeah there really isn't much I can do about the game being too slow if you turn your graphics down to the minimum because I can't take out the physics and terrains. xD

You'll just have to hope the LOD solves some of the problems but past that WOR needs a fairly good computer to run. - It is a Dx9 game after all and isn't designed to run on anything lower spec than my PC.

And as a pretty good indicator - if you can't run the menu smoothly, you won't be able to run the game smoothly as they're using about the same amount of resources.

Alquerian
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Posted: 17th Feb 2011 02:21
Wow Cowbox, I am impressed! You have really come a long way!
dark coder
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Posted: 17th Feb 2011 02:56 Edited at: 17th Feb 2011 02:57
Quote: "and the slowdown is being caused by the 30,000 odd triangles being rendered once for the main cam, again for the refraction in the water and having 5 realtime shadows cast onto it."


30k tris is nothing, even with 3 passes, and these FPS results don't change between the highest and lowest graphics settings, and yes, I did restart the app each time I changed them.

For reference, my CPU is the Intel Q6600, GPU is the Nvidia 8800GTX. I can't load up the terrain .x files, but the tree ones show that you have a separate limb for each part, i.e. 200 trees is 400 limbs for the trunk and leaves. This results in a ridiculous amount of draw calls, which are slow, so you should really merge them down into as few limbs as possible. i.e. all of your tree trunks can become a single limb with no visual difference, and with a 1-bit transparency mode so can do the same with all the leaves.


Quote: "Also ensure you're getting the FPS from ` graph so I can actually use it because I don't trust Fraps - it's wrong whenever I've had a readout from it"


I get the exact same 40~ FPS figures.


Quote: "Do you have any suggestion as to how I would make a clip-map?"


Try looking at some of Evolved's water shaders, I believe the command is 'set camera clip'.


Quote: "Are you saying I should just set display mode and window it without resizing it? - Will that work? ?"


Yes.

So yea, just make sure every object uses as few limbs as possible, because each limb is the equivalent of a new object, and we all know that loads of objects are slow.

C0wbox
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Posted: 17th Feb 2011 03:25
@ Alquerian
's been a while since the days of MTM where you helped us out of our nooby-rut xD

@ dark coder
Yeah the LODing engine will do some of that groovy limb and drawing handling so just sorta wait for the next version and we'll see then how it performs for everyone.

Oh I forgot to mention as well as 3 passes there is parallax mapping on the terrain and vehicles but that doesn't seem to slow it down as much as turning water or shadows on does for me.

Yeah I'm using Evolved's water shader and the set camera clip command but I can't make that command apply in all circumstances - I had to tweak it one way to sort out some of the horrible black/blue water edges but now it shows everything in the refraction. - I was hoping by clip map you meant watermask. - But I still can't see how that would help actually thinking about it. xD



But yeah to reiterate, v0.19 is a content overhaul from v0.17 (v0.18 was maps, v0.19 cars)
v0.20 will have new trees and along with it new maps to use with the LOD engine I'll be reactivating.

So hopefully come v0.20 the engine will be a bit more complete and maybe we'll have some more of the juicy physics commands to help things along as well.

Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 17th Feb 2011 06:48
Quote: "I can't take out the physics and terrains"
Lol thats obvious! haha i guess my 1 yr old laptop is severely underpowered... What are your PC specs C0wbox? xD

Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first place. Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you are, by definition, not smart enough to debug it.
C0wbox
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Posted: 17th Feb 2011 18:21 Edited at: 17th Feb 2011 18:22
Yeah even my laptop can't handle WOR very well.

My desktop (devtop) has:
Intel Core 2 Duo @ 3ghz
3gb RAM (DDR2 I think)
XP x86 (SP3)
nVidia Geforce 9800GT

and I always run WOR when I'm deving in either a window at 1024x768x32 or in fullscreen at 1440x900x32.

pictionaryjr
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Posted: 17th Feb 2011 21:54
You better hope your LOD system does wonders, because that was the slowest thing i've ever played

Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 18th Feb 2011 00:15
Haha i do have more RAM than you, 4 gigs... Lol nice pc though

Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first place. Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you are, by definition, not smart enough to debug it.
C0wbox
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Posted: 18th Feb 2011 03:01
I have 4 gigs too, it's just not using 1 of em because its Windows XP x86.

Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 18th Feb 2011 03:26
Oh i see, so it's a 64 bit thing? So much wasted RAM!! Hehe i have Win 7 here xD Best operating system MS has ever made for a computational device. Well but i hear XP performs a tad better...

Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first place. Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you are, by definition, not smart enough to debug it.
Southside Games
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Posted: 18th Feb 2011 04:12
hey man. thank you for making a zip. tho I should let you know that once I ran the game it would not start. it told me I was missing MSVCP71.dll. is there a download?

tho I have to say that from what I seen it looks like a great game. can't wait to play!
Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 18th Feb 2011 05:19
Hehe when the i was at the location selection part of the menu, i thought the earth would try to go to where my mouse pointed and i thought "How the heck did C0wbox do this?? " Hehe then i figured out your sneaky trick maybe not so sneaky but certainly sleek and awesome!

Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first place. Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you are, by definition, not smart enough to debug it.
Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2011 04:23
Eeeg. Its weird when such a popular thread goes inactive for five days

Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first place. Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you are, by definition, not smart enough to debug it.
C0wbox
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2011 05:42 Edited at: 23rd Feb 2011 05:43
@ Dark basic dude79
Yeah I would get Windows7x64 if I had more moneys and knew how to format and install an OS properly.

@ Southside Games
I've never heard of that DLL before. - It's probably some DirectX thing so your best bet would be to have a look on Google for it.

@ Dark basic dude79
xD I literally just made it rotate the planet based on how far the mouse is from the centre of the screen, nothing special.

@ Dark basic dude79
There isn't much to post about at the moment.

I've come out of my period of much-devs between xmas and the start of the next semester as I am now back at uni and doing all my lectures again. So I haven't really had time to work on WOR much. - When I get motivation to dev I usually use it on my little Java things now as we're moving Soharix to use Java and I'll be being taught it as part of my degree program anyway.

I'm also kind of waiting for someone who can finish off the remaining 3 models we need for WOR for me. - Our modelling department disbanded so we're kind of faffing around at the moment.



For anyone who's interested, we only need 3 models to finish WOR (all the rest of the work is programming or done by me)
We need a dead tree, a swamp tree and a checkpoint model. - Deathead did the happy tree, pine tree and palm trees before he left.

Here's overall roundup of what's left to be done before WOR can be released:
* 3 models
* New maps (may keep the old ones for extra content)
* AI coding (needs the engine and most of the media to be pretty much complete for that so it'll be one of the last things I put in but shouldn't take too long to do)
* MP fixing (probably something I'll address in v0.20 or v0.21 because there are some sillies in the multiplayer coding I want to iron out xD)
* Finish the DarkDynamiX implementation (this is in part to be done by me and matty at the same time - there are things I'll need him for and things I need to tweak on my own) (joint suspension/crash fixes)
I also had half an idea to add a 6th car and I've still got the picture of what I'd want to to look like but if we can't find a modeler who is willing to invest the time in modeling it, it's not the end of the world (off road)



Ermes
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Location: ITALIA
Posted: 23rd Feb 2011 10:31
Quote: "it's not the end of the world (off road)"


ah ah what a sense of the Humor.


Ciao facce da sedere!
Dark Java Dude 64
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Location: Neither here nor there nor anywhere
Posted: 24th Feb 2011 04:18 Edited at: 24th Feb 2011 04:20
LOL, the .x checkpoint model is nothin' much, looks kinda weird if ya ask me... Triple reply to @Dark basic dude79 FTW! lol i forgot my forum name as i usually refer to myself as Jeffrey... Ahh what have i just done, i just gave away my real name Now you all have the option to refer to me as that as well.

Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first place. Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you are, by definition, not smart enough to debug it.

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