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Dark GDK / Dark Game SDK and .NET

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Mike Johnson
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Posted: 3rd Apr 2006 13:56
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The update to bring the Dark Game SDK in line with Upgrade 6 of DB Pro is being worked on this week and next. Along with many fixes and new functions it will also bring in support for Visual C++ 2005.

The main purpose of this post is to find out what everyone thinks about us supporting the .NET platform. Would it appeal to people to be able to use the SDK in VB.NET and C#.NET?
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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 3rd Apr 2006 14:07
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Whilst I have no need for .Net, I'm sure that Cattlerustler would be very eager for it to be implemented...

And will we get a beta to test ?

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Kaiyodo
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Posted: 3rd Apr 2006 14:13
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I for one would love to be able to use the SDK in .NET. I use C# a lot for work and it makes UI stuff a breeze, but the whole .NET framework is missing a quick way to get 3D on the screen. DGSDK would fill that gap nicely.

Kaiyodo.
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theDK
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Posted: 3rd Apr 2006 15:31
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Hi ...

For sometime now I have been thinking about it:

(DarkGameSDK + C++) vs (Free DotNet Engine + C#)

now this was a little hard for me to figure out.

DarkGameSDK + C# on the other hand is no brainer for me.

Please give us a .NET version guys
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Gervais
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Posted: 3rd Apr 2006 16:38
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If you have the time to create the necessary library for the .NET environment that will be cool.

But the main point is to give us a much needed upgrade for the SDK to bring us to the same level of functionality and bug fix then DBPro and support for visual studio 2003 and 2005.

Thanks for the hard work
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Miguel Melo
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Posted: 3rd Apr 2006 17:24
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I personally have never coded games using Managed .Net langs (always used C++), but I use C# at work every day and it's an absolute beauty of a language, coupled with a great framework.

I would certainly entertain the idea of moving to C# if thd gdk was available there... and, above all, I think it would attract a lot of new costumers to TGC, as a lot of new coders think nothing of C++...

I have vague plans for World Domination
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CattleRustler
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Posted: 3rd Apr 2006 17:30 Edited at: 18th Apr 2006 16:00
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Quote: "Whilst I have no need for .Net, I'm sure that Cattlerustler would be very eager for it to be implemented...."




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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 3rd Apr 2006 17:42
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There - you could make him very happy!

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theDK
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Posted: 3rd Apr 2006 19:22
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he isn't the only one who is gona be happy about this ... I think if it is done it'll be a hit in the .NET universe ... just take a look at devmaster.net and search for .NET engines and you'll know what I mean.
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APEXnow
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Posted: 3rd Apr 2006 20:51
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Mike???


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Timidon
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Posted: 3rd Apr 2006 21:31
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For me, it seams like where Microsoft wants people to go as is. Since the SDK primarily is a Windows based app (direct x). Though I am really just a amature programmer who does this as a hobby.

Well I figure atleast keep it as backwards compatible as you can. I know MS wants to ditch the older OS. I remeber converting DOS to Win95-98se. I just finaly got into the position to use WinXp as of the last year or so and now I find out they are ready to basicly scrap it as well for Vista, though support will still go on for a few more years.

Good luck looking forward to a update, as for me I have only had the SDK for a month, have not figured out what is or what is not a bug yet. Still learning the behavoir. Cheers!

There are many answers but just one question" ~ Jerilith the Mad
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APEXnow
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Posted: 4th Apr 2006 00:56 Edited at: 18th Apr 2006 16:02
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I've been granted permission to make this post. DGSDK.NET is a reality and is currently in development. TGC are fully aware of what is happening in this regard, but the SDK will not be available just yet.

Here are a couple of screen shots showing off the DGSDK.NET application, the demo was written by CattleRustler in pure VB.NET code using the DGSDK.NET classes.

Visual Studio 2003 .NET Framework 1.1


Visual Studio 2005 .NET Framework 2.0

This basically shows that this will soon be available for .NET developers. I must stress, this is WIP and more news and information will be available soon.

Paul


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enablerbr
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Posted: 4th Apr 2006 01:04 Edited at: 4th Apr 2006 01:05
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well i'd be happy to see C#.net. i assume it would be 2.0 net.

i also hope you update the docs this time round.


any thoughts on mutli-threading with any future releases?
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CattleRustler
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Posted: 4th Apr 2006 01:14 Edited at: 4th Apr 2006 01:15
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Quote: "well i'd be happy to see C#.net. i assume it would be 2.0 net."

picture any .NET environment (VS 2003, 2005 - Framework 1.1, 2.0)...
Now add DGSDK
Now pick your language (C# or VB.NET)

Quote: "any thoughts on mutli-threading with any future releases?"

Note the text being printed at 0,0 in the screenshot above

Quote: "i also hope you update the docs this time round."



Automatic file updates for your distributed Games
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enablerbr
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Posted: 4th Apr 2006 01:22
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i hadn't taken any notice of that image. me bad.
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theDK
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Posted: 4th Apr 2006 09:53
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@APEXnow

How far is it from being complete?

and why wouldn't they give you the ok on this? unless you are charging money for this work then I would understand why you are waiting for the ok.

@CattleRustler, APEXnow, and anyone involved in this project:

Good Luck guys.
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Miguel Melo
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Posted: 4th Apr 2006 11:05
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Aye, more power to you laddies.

I have vague plans for World Domination
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Morcilla
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Posted: 4th Apr 2006 13:09
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From my point of view, it would be very remarkable to be able to use the SDK in VB.NET and C#.NET

VB.NET should be great for beginners, although of course, C++ is the traditional king of game programmming.

Nice, but I hope this doesn't mean another delay...
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Artus
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Posted: 4th Apr 2006 13:23 Edited at: 4th Apr 2006 14:00
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The upcoming of an update is a great news. I was starting to think that DGSDK was dead.

Compatibility with .NET languages is also great. However, I fear that the time dedicated by Mike to .NET will represent a cost for the DGSDK on general (less time for bug tracking, writing a decent help file, examples, implementing physics, etc...). I thus fully agree with Gervais
Quote: "
But the main point is to give us a much needed upgrade for the SDK to bring us to the same level of functionality and bug fix then DBPro and support for visual studio 2003 and 2005."

I have spent quite a lot of time on C++ code (even if I stopped a few months ago because of losing motivation due to the lag in DGSDK evolution), writing an object hierachy and so on, and my highest priority would have been (it looks too late now that ApexNow informed us that they were already working on .NET) the support of the existing product, i.e. C++ DGSDK library, and having it fully functional.
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APEXnow
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Posted: 4th Apr 2006 14:06
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Quote: "Compatibility with .NET languages is also great. However, I fear that the time dedicated by Mike to .NET will represent a cost for the DGSDK on general (less time for bug tracking, writing..."


You do not need to worry about this because Mike has just been providing general technical support and this will not be a distraction from TGC's main focus on DGSDK and other products. It's important to realize that the .NET SDK itself has already alot of functionality implemented. Also, because .NET itself implements an extensive set of classes itself, functions like string handling, arrays and such will be limited or not required from the DGSDK.NET's point of view. Obviously if and when the product gets released, I'll provide full support and updates along side the DGSDK itself.

Hope this clarifies a few concerns.

Paul.


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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 4th Apr 2006 14:43 Edited at: 4th Apr 2006 14:44
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Had a feeling that TGC wouldn't do it themselves After all, it would be quicker if a third party did it...

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Miguel Melo
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Posted: 4th Apr 2006 15:23
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Quote: "Obviously if and when the product gets released, I'll provide full support and updates along side the DGSDK itself."


I infer from this statement that the .Net wrapper will be paid release, on top of the cost of the gdk... am I correct?

I have vague plans for World Domination
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CattleRustler
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Posted: 4th Apr 2006 15:45
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Quote: "From my point of view, it would be very remarkable to be able to use the SDK in VB.NET and C#.NET"

then brace yourself, its already in testing

Quote: "VB.NET should be great for beginners, although of course, C++ is the traditional king of game programmming"

Forgetting history, and moving forward for a moment... VB.NET and C# have all the power of c++, with less of a learning curve imho. Between VB.NET and C#, yes you are correct, Basic and VB programmers will have an easier time with VB.NET, where C++ coders will feel right at home in C# or Managed C++
This project should be considered a milestone in TGC's evolution

Quote: "Nice, but I hope this doesn't mean another delay... "

There are no delays in the DGSDK development cycle because of the .NET version. TGC can continue to develop and make improvements to the DGSDK without worrying about supporting the .NET version, its the other way around. The .net version uses whats available in the original DGSDK (lib version) and exposes it to .NET

Quote: "Had a feeling that TGC wouldn't do it themselves "

What ever gave you that idea? It wasn't me moaning about it for the past two years was it? In the immortal words of Bad Ass Bob: "It doesn't matter to me who does it, woman!" -none of that was a slam against tgc in anyway, lest it be misconstrued

Quote: "After all, it would be quicker if a third party did it..."

Outsourcing to a small singular-task-oriented group, who is both eager to develop the item, and eager to begin actually using the item will usually show quick results, as we see here, in this particular project. Not to mention I crack a good whip! (j/k)

Automatic file updates for your distributed Games
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APEXnow
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Posted: 4th Apr 2006 16:36
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'Bad ass bob... whip...' You can leave the S/M tools back home my friend LOL

Paul.


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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 4th Apr 2006 16:41 Edited at: 4th Apr 2006 16:41
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Quote: "What ever gave you that idea? It wasn't me moaning about it for the past two years was it?"

No, it was Lee says he didn't know much about C#/.Net

Quote: "You can leave the S/M tools back home my friend"

Thats far too much information...

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APEXnow
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Posted: 4th Apr 2006 17:18
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Quote: "Thats far too much information..."


His home... not mine


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Miguel Melo
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Posted: 5th Apr 2006 02:07
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Sorry to interrupt all this fine swinging but can anyone shed some light on my "paid upgrade" question, please?

You can carry on with the party.... oooOOooOoo matron...

I have vague plans for World Domination
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CattleRustler
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Posted: 5th Apr 2006 03:30
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Quote: "I infer from this statement that the .Net wrapper will be paid release, on top of the cost of the gdk... am I correct?"

Thats something that only TGC can answer but I think its way early for that.

Automatic file updates for your distributed Games
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Dark Lord
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Posted: 5th Apr 2006 11:14
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I thought that the DarkSDK was dead, but I guess I've just been proved wrong. Keep up the good work!
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hackinc 2000
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Posted: 6th Apr 2006 23:02
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As i'm a C# programmer, I would love to see DarkBasic code in my C# programs! That's going to be my dream came true!
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MikeS
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Posted: 7th Apr 2006 04:43
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This is a dream come true, awesome guys! I see it's running in both VS2005 and VS2003, which is even better! Keep up the great work guys. I suppose it's time to start learning up on my VB now.



A book? I hate book. Book is stupid.
(Formerly Yellow)
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Zeal
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Posted: 7th Apr 2006 05:01
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Quote: "I thought that the DarkSDK was dead, but I guess I've just been proved wrong. Keep up the good work!"


LONG LIVE SDK!

As for the whole .net thing, I dont know enough about it to really comment. However my uncle is a programmer, and he swears by c#. So if .net means I can use c#, I guess im all for it!

BTW, any eta on our U6 beta? You guys said youre working on it this week and next so I take it its gonna be soon? yay!

All you need is zeal
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CattleRustler
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Posted: 10th Apr 2006 03:41
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Quote: "This is a dream come true, awesome guys!"

Isn't it, though!

Quote: "I suppose it's time to start learning up on my VB now."

Or c#, but either way, I have an pure .NET, Event Driven EZS Client dll 90% done, with all the goodies that wouldn't work in the dbp converted version! Muhaha...

I'll probably make it available once the dgsdk.net is out and if there is any interest. Ill be using it, thats for damn sure.

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re faze
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Posted: 10th Apr 2006 07:57
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what about J#?

Dont code slowly be SWIFT about it!
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CattleRustler
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Posted: 10th Apr 2006 15:33
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what about it?

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theDK
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Posted: 10th Apr 2006 15:45
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@CattleRustler:

You guys are making a wrapper for the DGSDK right? you aren't converting the whole sdk to MDX, aren't you?

What I'm really asking about is that DGSDK is using DX9 and not MDX and you are just making a wrapper for the functions of DGSDK so that we can use them in .NET languages ... is that right or I'm wrong?
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CattleRustler
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Posted: 10th Apr 2006 17:43
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Quote: "You guys are making a wrapper for the DGSDK right? you aren't converting the whole sdk to MDX, aren't you?"


Firstly, APEXnow is authoring the wrapper for DGSDK, I was merely the inspiration and a .NET consultant to him. I am also heavily beta testing each release, spotting problems, errors etc with different coding scenarios.

Second, what's MDX exactly? Is that the newest dx? At any rate if the DGSDK runs the underlying graphics platform, whatever it may be, the .NET wrapper shouldn't really care what that undlying platform is.

Currently dgsdk wraps DX, DGSDK.NET wraps DGSDK. If DGSDK wrapper changes what it wraps but doesnt affect caller side (other than added functions etc) then the .NET wrapper shouldn't have any issues with it.

Maybe APEX could shed some light on this

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APEXnow
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Posted: 10th Apr 2006 17:47
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CattleRustler is correct in what he states. The DGSDK.NET wrapper does not care what platform API the DGSDK itself uses. Any updates or changes to the DGSDK will be reflected in the .NET wrapper without any major overhead.

Paul.


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Lost in Thought
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Posted: 10th Apr 2006 19:05
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So can I tell my mother now

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CattleRustler
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Posted: 10th Apr 2006 21:41
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its ok, I already told her.
















lol, sorry, j/k - that was too good to pass up

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theDK
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Posted: 10th Apr 2006 23:46
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lol CattleRustler o.O

anyway ... MDX is the Managed version of DirectX ... currently there is MDX 1.1 and MDX 2.0 beta which is gona be included in the XNA framework for developing games that work on both windows and the Xbox 360.

@APEXnow:

Are you making the wrapper by hand or using SWIG?
using SWIG should make things much easier for you but I'm not sure about the implications.

www.swig.org

Good luck on your work .. and please give us some updates on your work every now and then.
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CattleRustler
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Posted: 11th Apr 2006 03:09
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yeah then thats some special hybrid methinks. Starting with DX9.0c MS included a paralell .NET Managed API for all of directx.

Regarding this MDX stuff, sounds like a .NET-Only DX (ie the version numbers coincide with framework release version numbers 1.1, 2.0 beta, etc) I guess we'll see what the future holds.

XNA brings a whole new universe to game development so its hard to say what will be what.

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APEXnow
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@theDK

I'm not using SWIG, the wrapper is being done by hand.


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Yarbles
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Being able to use the Dark Game SDK with C# would be a dream come true for me.

please visit http://yarbles.zapto.org/realitytwin/
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CattleRustler
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Posted: 13th Apr 2006 02:15
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Apex is locked in his house, with pizza and brandy, feverishly coding away...

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Lost in Thought
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Posted: 13th Apr 2006 02:32
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Quote: "its ok, I already told her."
That was you? Sorry about the Buck Shot

Quote: "Apex is locked in his house, with pizza and brandy, feverishly coding away..."

Hope he doesn't have too much brandy

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APEXnow
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LOL, the consumption of brandy makes up for the lack of social life!! LOL

Paul.


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adr
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Posted: 13th Apr 2006 14:13
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I will seriously reconsider the SDK when this is released. I honestly think .NET support will bring DarkBasic to the forefront of bedroom programming.

Is there any reason the .NET offering wouldn't work with #Develop?

[center]
iv tryed everything!!!!!!!!!! could u please just add The gun and shooting Code thats All!!!!!!!!!
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APEXnow
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No reason at all


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adr
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I'm having difficulty containing myself .... if you know what I mean

[center]
iv tryed everything!!!!!!!!!! could u please just add The gun and shooting Code thats All!!!!!!!!!
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