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Game Design Theory / What is so good about Halo?

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SunnyKatt
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Posted: 7th Apr 2008 02:51
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I agree with gil. Im american, but that's not why I agree!

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Agent Dink
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Posted: 7th Apr 2008 03:51
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I'm American too but completely back what Gil says.

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Zeldar
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Posted: 7th Apr 2008 03:54
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(insert here all the good things that those people who posted above me about Halo)
I don't really think it's the best game out there, but it is pretty fun.

Quote: "I really don't understand Halo, and I've played all three (not all the way through). It doesn't suck, but it is way overhyped and sucks compared to what people say it is. The story isn't that great, the combat is way too unrealistic for me and repetitive. I love FPS's too, CoD4 and HL2 are great, but Halo is just...ordinary. Graphics are sub-par, and I don't like the controls much either. Everything about it is just ordinary to me, I've never been able to play for more than an hour at a time in any of the games because they just don't hold my interest. There isn't anything innovative about them either, no cool physics and puzzles like HL2, no awesome level design (feels way too linear) and multiplayer reward system like in CoD4, no massive maps with vehicles and aircraft like BF2. I hate having to unload a clip on someone while they jump and I jump around like rabbits and hitting them 20 times before killing them with an assault rifle, it should be 2 times at most. I know I'll be flamed for this, but...I just don't get it .
-Gil Galvanti"

....Wow. Do I have to remind you that Halo was made beforeHL2, BF2, and COD4, so you can't expect it to be the greatest.
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Gil Galvanti
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Posted: 7th Apr 2008 04:36
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Quote: "Do I have to remind you that Halo was made before"

Not Halo 3 . And regardless, it still brought nothing really new to the table, it just did what had already been done correctly.


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Zeldar
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Posted: 7th Apr 2008 04:47
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I wasn't talking about Halo 3. Were you?
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tha_rami
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Posted: 7th Apr 2008 04:51
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Okay people, I can go explain for the hundred-thousand-and-fifth time why Halo was special, why Halo 2 was good and why Halo 3 was epic, but I won't. What I will say is that if you didn't like it, that's your choice - Halo is something you dig or not. Saying it isn't special, though, is absurd. Halo brought FPS to the consoles, correctly. It has 90+ scores on Metacritic for all three installments for the XBOX (360). It brought grenades and vehicles to the foreground. It matured XBOX Live singlehandedly. It broke, no, smashed sales records on every single one of the series. Master Chief now stands next to names as Lara Croft and Duke Nukem. But that doesn't mean you need to like it. I know I do. I also know I dislike CoD4. That I found HL2 a disappointment. That I never liked Counter-Strike. And all of these are considered awesome games by most. Not by me.

Halo, and Halo 3 - those I consider great games. I don't need to defend that and I am really getting annoyed by this topic resurfacing every two weeks. If you want to know why Halo is considered good, it has been explained thirty times (and I've counted them), by various people in this topic.


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Gil Galvanti
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Posted: 7th Apr 2008 05:15
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Ok, maybe Halo 1 popularized a few new concepts in shooters like vehicles. And I know that it got great scores, that's why we're having this argument in the first place, it doesn't deserve them. It's average in every way. You dislike most FPS's, because if you play FPS's, I think it's impossible to not like CoD4, and I can justify that if you need me too . I'm not arguing Halo isn't popular, I'm arguing that it shouldn't be popular, because it's not that great.

So in the end, all you have to support the Halo series is that they popularized (not added) grenades and vehicles in Halo 1? And the fact that it got good reviews, which is irrelevant because that's what we're arguing about in the first place, it not deserving those. You only found HL2 a disappointment because you compared it to it's predecessor, and obviously many people disagree because it's considered one of the best FPS's ever made .

Call of Duty 4 is more played on Live than Halo 3 right now, by the way .

Quote: "Halo, and Halo 3 - those I consider great games. I don't need to defend that and I am really getting annoyed by this topic resurfacing every two weeks."

I'm getting really annoyed that so many people think that Halo is so amazing when it's not .


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tha_rami
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Posted: 7th Apr 2008 05:26
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You're really doing this for the sake of it, aren't you?

Halo introduced these things for the first time in a smooth combination. If you can tell me any game, for a console, before Halo, that smoothly featured guns, melee, grenades, vehicles and warfare, I'll retract the statement that Halo was special.

CoD4 isn't that great. I'm an avid fragger, and I know most FPS'es. To back that up, I played and beat Halo, Halo 2, Halo 3, Half-Life, Half-Life 2, Doom, Doom 2, Doom 3, Quake, Quake 2, Quake 3, Quake 4, Battlefield 1942, Battlefield 2142, CoD, CoD2, CoD3 and CoD4, Deus Ex, Deus Ex 2, oh, and I also played Counter Strike.

Now, on the contrary, as far as I know you never played HL1, never beat HL2, nor Halo 1, 2 or 3. I'd love to discuss things with you, but, honestly, how am I to defend a games status against someone with a clear bias towards it?

Halo is amazing in what it does, and what it does it does with such style, smoothness and elegance that, although it is not the God of War among the hack & slash games, it's definitely the Diablo II of them. Halo 2 was a disappointment, sure, but still great (kinda like HL2), and Halo 3 was short but sweet. Now, people can disagree about that, and they can. But saying that you think it doesn't deserve what it got, doesn't mean a thing for the world. They deserve it and otherwise it wouldn't have got it.

It's that simple.


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Gil Galvanti
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Posted: 7th Apr 2008 05:52
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Quote: "You're really doing this for the sake of it, aren't you?"

Coming from someone who argues all the time just for the sake of it .

Quote: "Halo introduced these things for the first time in a smooth combination. If you can tell me any game, for a console, before Halo, that smoothly featured guns, melee, grenades, vehicles and warfare, I'll retract the statement that Halo was special."

Ok, I agree, it introduced all of those in one game for the first time, but not for the first time individually. Then what did Halo 2 and Halo 3 do to innovate? Dual wielding? Woohoo, now we can make the controls even crappier! . Everything else, other than story and graphics (which really aren't all that good) stayed the same, with the exception of a couple new vehicles that really didn't do anything new. Oh, and the crapped up "forge" concept in Halo 3.

Quote: "CoD4 isn't that great. I'm an avid fragger, and I know most FPS'es. To back that up, I played and beat Halo, Halo 2, Halo 3, Half-Life, Half-Life 2, Doom, Doom 2, Doom 3, Quake, Quake 2, Quake 3, Quake 4, Battlefield 1942, Battlefield 2142, CoD, CoD2, CoD3 and CoD4, Deus Ex, Deus Ex 2, oh, and I also played Counter Strike.
"

Ok, then why do you not like CoD4? Is it the fast paced, completely smooth multiplayer with mind-blowing graphics? Or the great variety in singleplayer missions with great level design? Or maybe the awesome leveling system with unlockables in multiplayer?

Quote: "Now, on the contrary, as far as I know you never played HL1, never beat HL2, nor Halo 1, 2 or 3. I'd love to discuss things with you, but, honestly, how am I to defend a games status against someone with a clear bias towards it?
"

It doesn't take beating a game to know if it's good or not, and I've had enough experience with all of them to make that judgement .

Quote: "Halo is amazing in what it does, and what it does it does with such style, smoothness and elegance that, although it is not the God of War among the hack & slash games, it's definitely the Diablo II of them. Halo 2 was a disappointment, sure, but still great (kinda like HL2), and Halo 3 was short but sweet. Now, people can disagree about that, and they can. But saying that you think it doesn't deserve what it got, doesn't mean a thing for the world. They deserve it and otherwise it wouldn't have got it."

But see, it's not just ME who thinks that, and I also have support for the fact that it didn't deserve it. The fact is, it's average at what it does, and while the first one combined some already introduced concepts well, the next two show very little improvement or innovation in a sea of great and innovative shooters (CoD4, Bioshock, Battlefield: Bad Company, GRAW1+2, Rainbow Six Vegas 1+2, etc.)


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tha_rami
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Posted: 7th Apr 2008 06:02 Edited at: 7th Apr 2008 06:05
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Quote: "Ok, then why do you not like CoD4? Is it the fast paced, completely smooth multiplayer with mind-blowing graphics? Or the great variety in singleplayer missions with great level design? Or maybe the awesome leveling system with unlockables in multiplayer?"

Exactly for the reasons you don't like Halo: it didn't appeal to me. I didn't think the multiplayer was smooth (especially not compared to Halo), nor that the graphics were mind-blowing (to explain that, by the time I had played CoD4, some better looking games had been released. Let me point to Crysis, which I played half a month before CoD4, to explain what I'm talking about). I didn't think the missions had great level design (although there were some good ones), nor did I find the enemies, the story, the whole thing inspiring. If I have to give it some creds, it'd be for the band between the player and the secondary main characters.

You ask me how I can dislike a game that scored 94 at Metacritic. I ask you the same thing about Halo 3, because coincidentally, it scored a 94 as well. Halo 1 got a 97, and that's no more than logical and fair. I disagree with the 95 for Halo 2. High 80's would've been more appropriate, and it certainly doesn't beat CoD4.

Now, if you can tell me what CoD4 reinnovated, if that's so important? Nothing. Everything had been done before, and I can promise you that 90% of it was 'invented' the way it is in CoD4 by borrowing from the Mother of All Console FPS: Halo.

See, I dislike CoD4, but I can at least admit it's a good game. I am surprised, by the way, to see you compare Halo 3 with Rainbow Six Vegas or GRAW (Strategical FPS) and even more to see you compare it to Battlefield: Bad Company (which is yet to be released).

I've had enough of this topic. We don't have to agree, you go think Halo doesn't deserve what it got - you're in a massive minority. So am I for CoD4, so, we're even. Now I'm going to sleep. You gave me a headache.


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Gil Galvanti
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Posted: 7th Apr 2008 06:26
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Quote: "Exactly for the reasons you don't like Halo: it didn't appeal to me. I didn't think the multiplayer was smooth (especially not compared to Halo), nor that the graphics were mind-blowing (to explain that, by the time I had played CoD4, some better looking games had been released. Let me point to Crysis, which I played half a month before CoD4, to explain what I'm talking about)."

Multiplayer wasn't smooth? You can't deny that, it's a fact that it is, it runs 60 FPS the whole time, has adjustable look sensitivity, and has a great transition from aiming to hip (unlike Halo which just snaps, and uses a crappy controller configuration to do so).

By the way, Rami has been talking to me on MSN, and refuses to admit that CoD4's graphics were anything other than "plain good", and I can't seem to convince him otherwise, even though it's a concrete fact, so can I get some people to back me up?

Quote: "You ask me how I can dislike a game that scored 94 at Metacritic. I ask you the same thing about Halo 3, because coincidentally, it scored a 94 as well. Halo 1 got a 97, and that's no more than logical and fair. I disagree with the 95 for Halo 2. High 80's would've been more appropriate, and it certainly doesn't beat CoD4."

But I was only pointing out that basically everyone agreed with me, when it seems like far fewer agree with you .

Quote: "Now, if you can tell me what CoD4 reinnovated, if that's so important? Nothing. Everything had been done before, and I can promise you that 90% of it was 'invented' the way it is in CoD4 by borrowing from the Mother of All Console FPS: Halo."

I'm not arguing that CoD4 invented new concepts, but it brought everything together brilliantly and tied it into a nice little package. There really isn't much the CoD4 could have innovated on with it's concept, considering the vast number of FPS's that there have been, unlike Halo, where basically everything was untried, heck, even zooming was a new concept. But CoD4 brings every good concept in an FPS that has been tried and uses it perfectly, from throwing back grenades, to picking up enemy weapons, to smooth aiming, to smart AI, to linear levels that feel open, and the list goes on (and I'll continue if you'd like).

Quote: "See, I dislike CoD4, but I can at least admit it's a good game. I am surprised, by the way, to see you compare Halo 3 with Rainbow Six Vegas or GRAW (Strategical FPS) and even more to see you compare it to Battlefield: Bad Company (which is yet to be released).
"

I don't think Halo's a bad game, I just don't think it's a great game. And I didn't compare them, I'm only pointing out the fact that every other great FPS has brought new things to the table (especially past their first installment, unlike Halo), or otherwise put them together in an awesome way, like CoD4.

Quote: "I've had enough of this topic. We don't have to agree, you go think Halo doesn't deserve what it got - you're in a massive minority. So am I for CoD4, so, we're even. Now I'm going to sleep. You gave me a headache.
"

Ok, I agree to disagree, but I'm still right and you're still wrong . And actually, you're the only one I've talked to that doesn't like CoD4, but I know many others that don't like Halo .


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tha_rami
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Posted: 7th Apr 2008 06:37
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There's so much hypocrisy and nonsense in that last post that I'll just agree to disagree as well. I know many that dislike CoD as a whole. Heck, I can probably get more people to tell you that Halo is the holy grail of FPS than you can get to tell me CoD4 is as good as you say.


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Agent Dink
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Posted: 7th Apr 2008 07:56
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What really does it for me in CoD 4 is the camera movements and effects. They are so fluid and so realistic it just immerses you into the game and gives you the feeling of being there. Mix that up with the excellent graphics (which aren't always as good or better than Crysis, but at many points are comparable) and fast paced fun gameplay and interesting supporting squadmate characters you have yourself a winner.

Overall the Halo games feel very much like an attempt at something authentic while still being generic if that makes any sense at all. I think Halo's success and popularity is due to the time it came out. It was the first console shooter to really utilize vehicle physics, melee, and grenades, just like Rami said and those aspects make the multiplayer very fun, but I think that if any other game came out at that time on a console and did the same things with a different storyline or setting or something Halo would be mocked to this day with a small handful of people following it like a cult.

I seem to notice that Halo is most closely followed by the trendier people who catch onto gaming fads or whatever. Playing Halo almost seems like a status thing amongst console gamers.

In it's own right though if you like what Halo delivers then you're in luck. It delivers it well. The gameplay is straight through the games 100% the same and true to itself. If you like Star Wars Episode 1-3 and corny aliens, this is the game for you. I prefer more serious darker and grittier undertones to my shooters most times so Halo doesn't do it for me along with the fact it's ultra-repetative. Also. Why the heck does the flashlight automatically turn itself off in Halo 2. It's making the game virtually unplayable for me on my dark screen UGH. I need to find a new one.

So basically I rate Halo games overall 9 / 10 if you like that sorta game because what it does, it does well.

Personal opinion it gets a 6 / 10 from me on the singleplayer side of things and an 9 / 10 for multiplayer. Average singleplayer at best but fun multiplayer, specially with friends.

MISoft Studios - Silver-Dawn

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SunnyKatt
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Posted: 7th Apr 2008 13:11
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First off - I own Cod4 and Crysis, and played Halo 3 several times.

Halo doesn't deserve the popularity, but it brought all that stuff to the table, fans became attached and yearned for more.

Cod4 is just the first game most casual gamers ran into that is intense. There are plenty more, I think Crysis is more intense than cod4, but I still love cod4.

Quote: "By the way, Rami has been talking to me on MSN, and refuses to admit that CoD4's graphics were anything other than "plain good", and I can't seem to convince him otherwise, even though it's a concrete fact, so can I get some people to back me up?"


They are just "plain good". Honestly, have you ever seen crysis, up close, on a high definition screen? They just aren't even close.

Quote: "many points are comparable"


Yes, but many are negative for cod4. Here's one -
Cod4 uses object 2d sunshafts placed in certain points in buildings etc when dust goes through them.
Crysis, on the other hand, has realtime generated sunshafts, that appear and refract when you hold things to the light and when pollen/dust go though them.

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tha_rami
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Posted: 8th Apr 2008 01:11
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Thank you, Adam. Agreed. Just, I rate Halo 1 and Halo 3 a 9/10.


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Zeldar
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Posted: 8th Apr 2008 02:40
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Quote: "It doesn't take beating a game to know if it's good or not, and I've had enough experience with all of them to make that judgement"

Guy plays Halo for 1 minute and says, "Ok, this sucks."You can't really know what a game is like unless you beat it. Even if you had enough "experience".
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Gil Galvanti
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Posted: 8th Apr 2008 03:21
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Quote: "There's so much hypocrisy and nonsense in that last post that I'll just agree to disagree as well. I know many that dislike CoD as a whole. Heck, I can probably get more people to tell you that Halo is the holy grail of FPS than you can get to tell me CoD4 is as good as you say."

Then why is CoD4 played more on Live? . And would you like to point out the specific hypocrisy and nonsense rather than making an unfounded blanket statement?

I agree with Adam to some degree, I will admit that Halo 1 was the first good FPS to combine many elements for it's time, but the fact that Halo 2 and Halo 3 have barely changed and the same repetitive gameplay exists to me makes them behind their times in FPS's.

Quote: "They are just "plain good". Honestly, have you ever seen crysis, up close, on a high definition screen? They just aren't even close."

Yes, but you're like Rami, where if you have item A which has 10/10 graphics, and item B which has 9.5/10 graphics, then you refuse to call item B anything that would infer it to be as good as item A . Just because item A is better than item B doesn't mean that item B is not still amazing, and doesn't lower the status of it to just "plain good".

Quote: "Guy plays Halo for 1 minute and says, "Ok, this sucks."You can't really know what a game is like unless you beat it. Even if you had enough "experience"."

Who said I only played for a minute? . Of course that's not enough to get a good feel of the game, but I've played 1 for about 10 hours (4 SP, 6 MP), Halo 2 for 5 hours (4 MP, 1 SP), and Halo 3 for about 3 hours (1 co-op, 1 MP, 1 SP), and I'd say that's plenty enough play time to know if you like something or not.

I agree with Halo 1, give it a 9/10 for what it did, but personally a 6/10, like Adam, because I don't like the setting, controls, story, or gameplay much (ie: shooting someone 20 times and jumping like a rabbit the whole time). For Halo 2 and 3, they barely innovate, and are just average in every way, so I give them both 7/10.


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Agent Dink
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Posted: 8th Apr 2008 03:33
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Crysis might have slightly better graphics but it sure does use a ton more resources than CoD4 does comparing both on the highest (non DX10 settings in Crysis' case)

MISoft Studios - Silver-Dawn

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Zeldar
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Posted: 8th Apr 2008 04:49
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Oh. My bad.
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tha_rami
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Posted: 8th Apr 2008 05:35
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Quote: "I agree with Halo 1, give it a 9/10 for what it did, but personally a 6/10, like Adam, because I don't like the setting, controls, story, or gameplay much (ie: shooting someone 20 times and jumping like a rabbit the whole time). For Halo 2 and 3, they barely innovate, and are just average in every way, so I give them both 7/10."

Great. By that reasoning, I'll deliver CoD4 with a 7/10 as well, because, honestly, it doesn't really innovate and I didn't think it was that special in terms of what it did besides doing everything it does correctly (like Halo), and it doesn't do much more than Halo (the setting and thus gameplay are a totally different approach), so .

I'll just compare the Nuke scene in CoD4 (the coolest scene) with the blast of the Delta Halo firing at the Ark. I liked the second one better. I'm into sci-fi, eh .


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SunnyKatt
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Posted: 8th Apr 2008 13:08
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Quote: "Yes, but you're like Rami, where if you have item A which has 10/10 graphics, and item B which has 9.5/10 graphics, then you refuse to call item B anything that would infer it to be as good as item A . Just because item A is better than item B doesn't mean that item B is not still amazing, and doesn't lower the status of it to just "plain good"."


I'm not calling them anything better than good. The graphics were "good" but that doesn't hit "great" and it doesn't hit "amazing". If you can tell it's fake, its not amazing.

Quote: "(non DX10 settings in Crysis' case)"


If crysis in dx9 v. cod4 in full gfx - crysis would still win, but not by a landlide.

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draknir_
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Posted: 8th Apr 2008 16:48 Edited at: 8th Apr 2008 16:50
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hl1 > cod4 > far cry > hl2 > princess peaches airy fairy pink flower power shooter > crysis > rolling around in a field of dog crap > halo1/2/3
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Deathead
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Posted: 8th Apr 2008 20:19
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The reason it was so succesful is because of people's taste in genres and games in that matter, Halo had a backbone of fans because of its smooth combination of guns,vehicles etc. but some people don't like that so they resort to the story line of which the Halo games do badly, so they may resort to COD4 as it has a good storyline but then on the multiplayer side may not be good so they may want to go onto Halo's multiplayer. SO the main answer to the thread is because of people's taste in games not that the player looks cool, or the little features it has... IT's the players oppinions what made Halo a great FPS.

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Lord Einstein
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Posted: 8th Apr 2008 21:57
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CoD4 is a good game but I still think Halo 3 is better (maybe because I die to easily in multiplayer). I also prefer the halo controls more but CoD4's movement is very realistic - both of them are very simular anyway. And no matter what you say, I think Halo has a better story line than CoD4 as there seem to be many more shades of grey. It may of course just be because I prefer Sci-fi alot more. The single player of both of them is good and so I have mixed feelings over that. Halo also has vehicles and the weapons are much more distinct and are fun to use. CoD4's weapons are of course based on real ones and so will be a bit generic - however, there are loads of them which is good but makes them feel even more generic.

Best Single Player: Mixed Feelings
Best Multiplayer: Halo 3
Best Graphics: CoD4
Best Story: Halo
Weapons and Vehicles: Halo 3
Fun factor: Halo 3

To me it seems that Halo 3 wins this, even if it is getting a bit old.

Gil Galvanti - "plain good" is a good rating. It is not saying the graphics are bad. What do you want?
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SunnyKatt
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Posted: 8th Apr 2008 22:31
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Hahaha - You had better be only including Halo 3 and Cod4 in that little review. If it was between the two - I agree.

Quote: "hl1 > cod4 > far cry > hl2 > princess peaches airy fairy pink flower power shooter > crysis > rolling around in a field of dog crap > halo1/2/3 "


That was pretty much the worst opininon I've ever witnessed. Its pretty sad - do you even play video games?

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Dr Manette
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Posted: 9th Apr 2008 00:30
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Quote: "That was pretty much the worst opininon I've ever witnessed. Its pretty sad - do you even play video games?"


Clearly he was making a point on how he thinks Half-Life is better than either COD4 and Halo. Pretty irrelevant to the topic.

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SunnyKatt
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Posted: 9th Apr 2008 01:16
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Yes. It was a super noobish opinion. Hl games are great, but you cant just dismiss halo like that.

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Agent Dink
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Posted: 9th Apr 2008 08:37
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Even though Draknir_'s opinion hasn't much to do with this conversation he's entitled to think HL1 is the best shooter around. Just like you all think that Halo is the best thing around ^_^

Quote: "Halo also has vehicles and the weapons are much more distinct and are fun to use"


I dunno, Halo's weapon set seemed very uninspired to me, very very classic FPS I guess, you got your machine guns, and your plasma rifles, rocket launchers, etc. The Beam Sword is awesome though! Now obviously CoD4 has to use modern weapons, else it wouldn't make sense, so I don't want arguing about that and how unoriginal it is ^_^

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dan958
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i like halo, i have never played cod4..but i would probely like cod 4 better becuase i like war games e.g. cod 3, medal of honor battlefield.
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draknir_
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Posted: 9th Apr 2008 16:03
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'noobish opinion'? Thats funny, maybe I just think Halo is a REALLY terrible game. Why dont you keep personal judgement to yourself, Mr. smart ass. Who the hell are you? I really don't see where you get off telling me I cant have a strong opinion.
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Soroki
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Posted: 9th Apr 2008 18:32
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My Lord you people are crazy....why the pointless arguments over Halo? It's useless to argue....there will ALWAYS be someone out there going "liek Halo is teh best game EVAR!" and there will always be those that were not impressed with and do not like it. Personally, I find nothing redeeming about the game. Everything in it is not as original as you may think. I've seen the elements of the series before many times, and to be honest, it just gets repetetive. "Go kill this, go here, kill on the way, go kill some more, go kill EVEN MORE, oh, by the way, go kill some more, destroy this, the end" It gets OLD when there are few objectives in the game that aren't just "go kill stuff" goals while going somewhere. It isn't fun after a while. Just stop the pointless argument over Halo, because it really doesn't make a difference

Yes, I did offer my opinion on the game, but I reserve the right to do so. I am just saying, why bother trying to say whether it's the best game ever or not?

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SunnyKatt
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Posted: 9th Apr 2008 22:25
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Yes, draknir_. That WAS a very noobish opinion. Sorry, but it was really crappy and pathetic. Dont insult Dink.

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draknir_
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Posted: 10th Apr 2008 00:00
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there is no such thing as a noobish opinion. You clearly dont know the meaning of 'noob'. Im entitled to my opinion. And dont bring Dink into this, I was addressing you, you pompous prick. You think you can just be 'right' and because I disagree with you, i am somehow a 'noob'? Grow up.
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SunnyKatt
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Sorry, when I said "noobish" I meant one-sided and rediculous. Misconceptions happen. Im not arguing with you, but putting "rolling in field of dog crap" before halo is absurd.
Calm down.

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draknir_
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Posted: 10th Apr 2008 00:19 Edited at: 10th Apr 2008 00:21
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One-sided: coming from one person. -Check.
Ridiculous: Inexplicable, absurd. -Perhaps, who would want to roll in a field of dog crap? Its called a simile jackass.
Noob: Being new to something, in this case videogames. -Yeah, you were wrong. Think before you type.
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SunnyKatt
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Posted: 10th Apr 2008 00:57
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I meant Noob as in - Unable to properly correspond+compare things.
Overall the absurdness isnt just in the dog crap. I played all those games cept Hl1 and princess peach (if it exists) and Far cry is'nt that great. Crysis on the other hand is the most intense and greatest shooter there, and cod4 and halo would come behind, halo after cod4, and HL2 behind that. Thats my opinion of course, but saying Crysis, one of the greatest shooters of all time (greatest in my opinion) is behind Hl2, which I thought was only good (still fun), IS absurd.

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draknir_
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Posted: 10th Apr 2008 01:22
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This is where your pompousness shines, you think that somehow because YOU thought Crysis was better than HL2 that somehow my opinion is "unable to properly correspond+compare things"? Maybe I think Crysis sucked balls, just like Halo did. Absurdity, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder. You may find it absurd, but I find it absurd that you think you can lord your opinion over me like that. And the fact that you havent played HL1 should only further illustrate your ignorance, and would in other circles give ME the right to call you a 'noob'.

Now for some substantiation of my opinion, because its clear you're not going to admit how wrong you are. Far Cry is terrific, way better than Crysis. Crysis only has graphics, and only that if you're rich enough to play it on high settings. Its full of bugs and inconstencies (like half the trees can be broken, the other half are magically indestructable), the storyline is the same as Far Cry, replacing mutants with aliens, and the multiplayer is laggy and broken.
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SunnyKatt
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First off I said:

Quote: "Thats my opinion of course"


So you cant say I devalue your opinion. I dont care what you like, but you cant dismiss games like that because of your reasoning.

Second, crysis is way different than far cry. I play it on lowest gfx which proves that I dont play for the graphics, and there are actually few bugs if you have it patched. The story is way different than that of far cry, the multiplayer doesn't lag at all for me and I play it more than counterstirke. The reason I didnt like far cry is that it was way too hard (even on easy for me) and I like to play crysis on it's hardest.

How many of those games you speak of do you own?

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draknir_
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Posted: 10th Apr 2008 02:16
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I own HL1, HL2, Far Cry, COD4, and Halo 1. Halo 2 and 3 Ive played over at a mates house, along with Crysis (more than once, and long enough to get the gist of the games).

I loved that Far Cry was difficult. Might be too hard for you to bear, but Im a hardcore counter-strike player, and after years of that, the challenge wore off. Just 2 weeks ago I popped in Far Cry and voila: challenge. Theres nothing like the intense atmosphere of playing on the realistic setting and creeping around the jungle with a single clip.

You're saying i cant dismiss games because of my reasoning? Where exactly did I reason 'wrongly'? Who are you to judge it? Ill reason whatever and however I like, thank you very much.

If you have some good arguments about the games in question, post them, but stop attacking my right to post my own opinions. You keep saying you aren't doing this, but you are: "That WAS a very noobish opinion.","was really crappy and pathetic.","IS absurd","Unable to properly correspond+compare","you cant dismiss games".
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SunnyKatt
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Posted: 10th Apr 2008 04:18
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You have a right to your opinion, and almost always I respect that, but this is one huge exception. Do you even know how hard people work on their games? Do you even program? If you're here, then probably so. Your overview of those games was the worst opionion I have ever seen. Halo may be way overrated, but it still has some good elements. Even the judgement-deprived that think crysis is just a better far cry have a better opinion than you! I dont feel like sitting here and coming up with every reason you are logically incorrect, I'm just here to state that that specific opinion was absolutely terrible. No offence, but it was a totally disrespectful and horribly thought out little "rating". I have nothing against you personally, just that one opinion of yours.

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draknir_
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Posted: 10th Apr 2008 04:24
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Mmm, but an opinion is a very personal thing, and when you disrespect one so intensely you do the same to the person behind it. As for the makers of Halo, they used to be a very respectable games studio (although I didnt like their older games either), but ever since they've been milking that (terrible) series to death Ive stopped caring about them.

Just because someone worked hard on a game doesn't mean i have to say it's better than dog crap, if I dont think it is. Incidentally, most of the team at Bungie is probably very good at what they do, but the designers sure aren't.
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SunnyKatt
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Posted: 10th Apr 2008 04:25
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Fine.

I hate your opinion.

You defend it.

Can this be over now?

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draknir_
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Posted: 10th Apr 2008 04:37
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Certainly it can be over, then you have no problem when I restate it:

hl1 > cod4 > far cry > hl2 > princess peaches airy fairy pink flower power shooter > crysis > rolling around in a field of dog crap > halo1/2/3

<3
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tha_rami
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Posted: 10th Apr 2008 06:06 Edited at: 10th Apr 2008 06:07
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Draknir is a respectible, honest and trustable fellow, by the way. I can vouch for his knowledge of gaming and game development.

(I just don't agree with him, for me it's most likely be HL1 > Halo 3 > CoD4 > Crysis > Far Cry = Halo 1 > Rolling in dogcrap > Halo 2.


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draknir_
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Posted: 10th Apr 2008 06:52
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you make me blush Rami right back at ya
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SunnyKatt
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Posted: 10th Apr 2008 12:48
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Good.

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entomophobiac
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Posted: 10th Apr 2008 14:22
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I find this interesting and I happen to have a bunch of moments to kill.

What it all boils down to is opinion. I'll summarize what I think of the arguments. I personally find interesting aspects in all of the games you've mentioned, more or less.

Except FarCry and Crysis, really. Impressive graphics-tech showreels -- boring games.


ORIGINALITY
Honestly, none of the games entered into the discussion are "original" in any real sense of the word. Some bring new features to the table, such as Halo's restrictions of weapons instead of the usual freighter-train of weapons and ammo that FPS-heroes haul around. And the first Half-Life installation brought a new degree of scripting to the table.

The others? Hardly deserve mentioning, really. They're derivatives, all of them.

But, in essence: they're all FPS-games.


MULTIPLAYER
People like different things. COD pretends to be realistic and succeeds. Halo gives you vehicles to play with.

End of story.


STORY
In my opinion, Half-Life and Half-Life 2 are two of the most watered-down and pointless stories in gaming. Why? Because you never really get to know anything. At all. It's just "wooohooo, look at how X-Files everything is..."

Works for one game. For two games? Nah. What the games do well is place you "there" -- where it happens. Something that worked very well in H-L, but didn't quite work out in H-L2, which is basically just a Havok railroad rollercoaster. What H-L did, other games have done better since then.


Halo is a concept-blending science-fiction game. It takes some ounces of Aliens, tosses in an ounce of Dawn of the Dead and a main character with fewer lines than Rambo but the same kind of attitude.

It has the usual mix of sci-fi elements that you'd expect from, really, anything in a similar genre. But what it does, it does well. It's not the Master Chief or the Covenant. It's the sum of everything. What I like the most, personally, is that it's first and foremost a GAME -- it doesn't pretend to be something it's not. Such as a military op against arabs or an island where you can "roam freely."


GAMEPLAY
Here's where it all comes down to preferences, really. Pointless to argue. I like the balancing in the Halo games and how much thought's been put into every little detail.

I also like the extreme pace of the COD-games and how everything manages to "feel" realistic to a certain degree.


Blah, blah. My time-killing is over. Hehe.
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Soroki
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Posted: 10th Apr 2008 18:04 Edited at: 10th Apr 2008 18:05
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Opinions opinions opinions....that's ALL this thread is. Nothing more. There are no FACTS to PROVE that any of you are correct, because it is simply a matter of personal preference. Here is what I see: someone makes a point, a few agree on it, some contradict it, a few get pissed at it, then another point is made, that one is either shot down, agreed with on some or all parts, and then the process is started over again.

Personally, I think all of you are very narrow-minded if you cannot accept that someone else's opinion DOES exist and it may contradict yours. If you hate someone else's view, then so be it. They may hate yours. That is NOT grounds for you to act like children on the playground where each one of you firmly believe you are the only ones that are correct. Stop arguing over pure opinion lacking any factual basis, and move on with your lives. You do NOT have to retaliate just because someone said something you didn't like. Grow up people....seriously, I thought we were all mature here, but then here we go with childish arguing that doesn't MATTER.

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tha_rami
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Posted: 10th Apr 2008 18:47
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All I do is react if someone posts wrong facts or claims things on an authority they don't have (i.e. force their opinion on people). Nothin else, cause an opinion is their own. If someone says "Half Life 2 is better than Halo", I say that I think it's not.


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dan958
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Posted: 10th Apr 2008 19:01 Edited at: 10th Apr 2008 19:03
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To all the people arguing



I mean c'mon people instead of arguing over some games why dont you all shake hands and make up XD
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