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Game Design Theory / What is so good about Halo?

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SunnyKatt
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Posted: 19th Apr 2008 23:25
Pssh. I was just naming a couple of the big ones.

dragon assasin
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Posted: 20th Apr 2008 00:47
personally i WAS a halo nut, loved it when it came out for 1 2 and 3 BUT after playing COD 4 i cant even look at it anymore, I find it slow, half mindless(run and gun takes little thought) and simply not as good.

That said what makes COD good is the play speed,

the realism in combat(if the bullets hit you you die.... imagine that)

grenade cooking

a reason to do kill streaks(copter baby)

perks (stopping powa)

equipment, c4 claymores ect

PRONE FOR FREAKING SNIPERS (what the master cheif to good to lie down lol)

falling HURTS its realistic if you fall 30 feet you die.. unlike the 2 ton metal man.... (how does 2 of them fit on the atv thas 8000 pounds even the tank would have a problem with that)

the story.... actually i like both stories

versitility there are so many weapon combinations to choose from.. of course if you have any wits about you you will only use the m16 or the rpd

special grenades, ok so halo has stickies (and spikes which are the dumb #$& version of stickies) but cod 4 has smoke, flash bang and stun grenades

Complex levels- cod maps have secret spots something halo doesent bother with much

i do miss vehicles

mounted turrets are WAY better in cod4 but carrying them is fun in halo

cod has a map maker that doesent require a 3000 dollar program to use(ok so max 8 is cheaper than that and im talking about halo 2 but you get the idea)

Sound tracker and UAV's when some one fires a shot you see it on radar, you can be stealthy in cod... halo not so much

Because i was motivated to post this that shoud be reason enough... where was i going with this again

warning i cant spell
Lord Einstein
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Posted: 20th Apr 2008 01:16
Quote: "cod has a map maker"


Does it? I have the Xbox 360 version. Maybe that doesn't have it.

Halo 3 tried to create a a map editor with the forge but it isn't that good really. Lack of good objects and placing cones really isn't good enougth. However, the downloadable content does make it much better and gives cool obejcts such as wall and shield barriers to play with. Foundry is quite nice.
Soroki
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Posted: 20th Apr 2008 02:29
Ugh...you people were supposed to be done and here it goes again.....

"I can't install things to my D:\ drive. Can you help me?"
"Just delete system32.dll. It should work fine after that"
tha_rami
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Posted: 20th Apr 2008 02:34
I finally bought CoD4 for myself yesterday, just to be able to tell my opinion and in my opinion, CoD4 was cool, but not as good as Halo. I don't really care about the realism as long as it doesn't hinder gameplay. I liked Halo's setting and story, although I liked those in CoD4 as well. Halo just has something extra.

That's my final verdict.


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SunnyKatt
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Posted: 20th Apr 2008 04:06 Edited at: 20th Apr 2008 04:07
I was playing COD4 yesterday, and it was overrated, but still good. What made me angry were the graphical flaws.
LINK TO MY REVIEW OF COD4 ON GAMESPOT
The Review
I felt bad though because I was comparing a lot of things to crysis...




Quote: "the realism in combat(if the bullets hit you you die.... imagine that)"


This I have to argue about. The combat of cod4 was actually very UNreallistic. I'm comparing it on normal now, and you have to get shot pretty many times to die. Also, once the shellshock goes away, it feels like you're fully healed! (which you probably are not, but who knows).
Halo actually had a reason for being able to withstand bullets - you're sheild. I wonder why it's called that, does it shield you from harm or something?
Crysis actually annoyed me with it's crazy level of realism, when you get hit with a spray of bullets (and dont have armor mode on) you have severe vision decrease and your health goes down to near zero, and you panic and try and run away, and take a killer bullet to the back. Turns out, not getting caught in a spray of bullets helps.

I think your opinions of cod4 are fanboyish.

entomophobiac
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Posted: 20th Apr 2008 11:03 Edited at: 20th Apr 2008 11:07
No game -- and most definitely no FPS -- that I know of is "realistic," possibly with the exception of Operation: Flashpoint, which to date is the best milsim game made if you ask me. Even then, it's more believable than realistic.

In a "real" world, you would fall down and writhe in pain from a single gunshot. Dying? Sure, but after a while, as your broken inner organs inflame your innards and an infection spreads to the heart due to remains of feces and urine in the abdominal cavity. Or your lungs slowly fill with blood. Death is very seldom instantaneous, even when you're hit in the head. It's guaranteed only to be extremely painful and have you pray -- to your mother or to your God -- irrespective of who you are.

In the "real" world, your feet are not glued to the ground, but you are most likely to fall down. In the "real" world, concussion trauma from a hand grenade would make you deaf. In the "real" world, weapons would jam and cease to function after prolonged firing. In the "real" world, you'd have to stick with the weapons that your officers issue and you wouldn't change on a whim just because the enemies weapons are "cool," as your weapon is personal and configured to fit YOU and no one else. Likewise for the enemy. In the "real" world, most standard issue assault rifles have armor penetration qualities that render "fragmentation armor" completely pointless.

And the list could go on for hours.

So, please, just don't use "realism" as a motivation for a game -- because they're all just that: games.
SunnyKatt
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Posted: 20th Apr 2008 12:49
We aren't saying totally realistic. The amount of realsim is what we're focusing on.

Lord Einstein
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Posted: 20th Apr 2008 21:07
Real is not fun. If I want real I will go join the army. I want to play games.
tha_rami
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Posted: 21st Apr 2008 01:32
Full Spectrum Warrior was realistic!


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Zdrok
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Posted: 21st Apr 2008 03:51
So was Red Orchestra.

Roxas
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Posted: 21st Apr 2008 16:39
Quote: "I played a lot of Wii Sports when the console had been freshly released. Though this is completely unrelated to Halo, I'd definitely say that I think the console will meet the same end as the GameCube, which is a niche console reserved for Nintendo-players.

Because I still have yet to see a good game on the platform. =/

Then again, apart from Uncharted, the same goes for the PS3..."


Ever heard of Zelda and Super Smash Bros.?

And for PS3.. Ever heard of Square Enix? Final Fantasy, Kingdom Hearts, Last Remnat, Odin Sphere, Xenogears, Etc from Square Enix... Also Metal Gear Solid etc..

But mostly like it wont get that end because Square Enix is really badass.. Almost every game ive played from Square have rocked!

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dan958
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Posted: 21st Apr 2008 18:23
I think halo is a good game, but i have halo 3 and cod 4 and honestly i prefer cod 4, mainly becuase i love war games.


JoelJ
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Posted: 21st Apr 2008 21:21 Edited at: 21st Apr 2008 21:22
Quote: "I played a lot of Wii Sports when the console had been freshly released. Though this is completely unrelated to Halo, I'd definitely say that I think the console will meet the same end as the GameCube, which is a niche console reserved for Nintendo-players.

Because I still have yet to see a good game on the platform. =/"

Well... the Wii can't really be compared to the GameCube as the Wii is outselling any other console (it's even outselling what the SNES did when it was released). It's awesome. Mario Galaxy is amazing, the console rocks. Everyone wants a piece of it. The XBox360 and PS3 really don't have anything new to offer. Sure, the graphics may look a little better. But lets get real, it's the same thing.

Back on topic anyway. I liked Halo 1 when it came out. Played it a lot. I really don't understand the hype though. Especially Halo 2. I can't stand that game. It was so buggy, so worthless, not fun, I didn't like the changes they made, I didn't like how they omitted so much (ATV and flamethrower, just to name 2) That game was very disappointing to me. I haven't been able to play Halo 3 yet, because no one I know has a XBox360... because no one needs one. So maybe one day I'll play it and develop an opinion. But for now, I'll stick with my Wii, which is super sweet. You wouldn't know it unless you break away from the demo games that come with it.

Halo 1 -> good game.
Halo 2 -> Disappointment.

That's my opinion.

[center]
entomophobiac
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2008 17:33 Edited at: 22nd Apr 2008 17:35
Well, to put it simply: I don't like the Wii controller. It's really that simple. As I said before; it's too fiddly. And for the PS3, concerning what Roxas wrote, I've never played a SquareEnix game that I liked and abandoned the Metal Gear Solid series after the first installation, because I frankly thought they've become exponentially worse.

MGS is an immortal classic. A great game and a great concept. MGS2 tries to achieve the same thing but falls tragically short. MGS3 is an atrocity that tells more about the studio's frustration about not making movies and not getting enough sex than it says about games.

Wii: not my cup of tea. No matter how many consoles it sells, it's still to outsell the other consoles in terms of their titles per console ratio. Something Nintendo's never done, except back in its glory days.

PS3: few titles remain exclusive and hardware design-wise it's inferior to its white MS-produced counterpart. The only strength that the PS3 has is its BluRay reader. The rest of the machine is the reason why Kutaragi's not their chief engineer any longer...


Both of these consoles have fans supporting them and I'm not advocating that they shouldn't have fans -- I'm saying that I'm NOT a fan. I own a PS3, but no Wii, although I've considered getting one to have as something of a party console. Especially since it's cheap.


And as far as Halo is concerned, which is what this discussion is about, I've already stated my opinion. Though I'd much more see the separate installations as one big game, rather than three. As for most sequels. Compare it to the Lord of the Rings trilogy of movies, if nothing else -- it tells a complete story.
SunnyKatt
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2008 02:42
Wii is great for multiple people fun. Alone I never got much out of mine.

tha_rami
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2008 06:54
I agreed about MGS with the poster of the post above ZekeGames' post, but nowadays I disagree. Metal Gear Solid should be seen on its own, kind of like Deus Ex. Its sequels can never live up to that game. If you do that, MGS2 and MGS3 are actually awesome games as well. I, for one, can't wait for MGS4.


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Bizar Guy
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Posted: 5th May 2008 07:19 Edited at: 5th May 2008 07:20
I can settle whether COD4 is better than Halo or not;

Does COD4 have cinnamon swirls in every byte? I think not. I rest my case.

draknir_
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Posted: 6th May 2008 02:33
So now we rate games on how they taste? Im not convinced the Halo disks taste like cinnamon
SunnyKatt
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Posted: 6th May 2008 04:29
Actually mine tasts quite salty...

Agent Dink
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Posted: 6th May 2008 07:24
My copy of Halo was pre-owned so I don't really want to taste it. I have no idea where it has been.

Skywalker
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Posted: 6th May 2008 07:50
I have wondered the same thing before why halo is so entertaining, from the first time I sat down to play Halo one to the last time I beat Halo 2 on legendary their is something about it that leaves me with a great satisfaction like no other game ever has... Halo 3 leaves much to be desired however i dont even consider it as !halo!

"Its not how many times you fall its how many times you get back up!"
Soroki
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Posted: 6th May 2008 15:35
I played Halo 1 and 2 all the way through on Easy and Normal, and I have to say I could care less about hard and legendary by that time. The game is too repetitive to be replayed FOUR times through, the only difference being how hard it is to kill enemies and the amount of enemies in each level. That is not what I call replayability. It isn't really doing much to make the game any different.

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SunnyKatt
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Posted: 7th May 2008 01:02
So far, the FPS with the most replay value would be crysis for me, because of it's sandbox gameplay you can do things differently every time. It's not
Run into this room, firefight.
Run into THAT room, get intel.
Call airstrikes.
Move out.

COD4 had little replay value because of that, but it's still great, and sandbox style gameplay wouldn't be good for that game. It sets up firefights quite nicely.

AndrewT
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Posted: 7th May 2008 03:21
I love Crysis for the editor; it's so much fun to scatter 100 enemies over a terrain and run them over with a hovercraft.

90% of statistics are completely inaccurate.
tha_rami
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Posted: 7th May 2008 04:37
Soroki, go back and play Legendary right away. Totally different game on that level, no more run and gun whatsoever. I think Legendary is the only level on which the game is worthwhile.


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SunnyKatt
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Posted: 7th May 2008 12:56
Yes, halo's run and gun got very old very fast. Legendary is the only thing that stops it.

Lord Einstein
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Posted: 7th May 2008 23:06
I personally quite like the run and gun but legendary difficulty is quite good.
entomophobiac
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Posted: 8th May 2008 10:57
Quote: "the only difference being how hard it is to kill enemies and the amount of enemies in each level"


Not true.

It has new dialogue, different pacing and a ton of other small things that most definitely motivates a new playthrough.

Even Halo 2 had such things.

Then again, if you don't like the gameplay -- new content matters little.
Bizar Guy
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Posted: 11th May 2008 00:58 Edited at: 11th May 2008 01:00
I've played through HL2 4 times now and still like it. Wierd, huh? I've played about 2-3(maybe?) hours of Halo 1 and don't really feel motivated to go back and finish. I've also played bits of the other games, like the very end of halo 3, and the first part or two of halo 3. I guess it's not my kind of gameplay on any difficulty, and it's certainly not my kind of story. I like how epic some of the scenes are, but... nah. I liked the whole audio thing on welovebees.com a lot more than the way the games tell the story.

EVERYONE. GO DOWNLOAD STEAM AND BUY ORANGE BOX RIGHT NOW. THE PRICE HAS DROPPED TO $40!!!! Come on... do it.

I found out from a friend the original xbox version of HL2 had sucky AI and physics. I was sorry for my friend who played HL2 that way, as it seemed to have ruined it for him.


HL FTW

Edit: Oh, and the cake is a lie.

tha_rami
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Posted: 11th May 2008 02:21
Bizar Guy, shut up and go buy all installments of Metal Gear Solid.


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SunnyKatt
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Posted: 11th May 2008 03:02
Woah there.

I have the orange box, and I thought HL2 was just "ok".
Portal, however, is my favorite puzzle game of all time. Ingenious!

Never played the metal gear solids.

Bizar Guy
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Posted: 11th May 2008 04:16
Quote: "Portal, however, is my favorite puzzle game of all time. Ingenious!"

Yes.

Quote: "Bizar Guy, shut up and go buy all installments of Metal Gear Solid."

NEVER! YOU"LL NEVER GET ME TO BUY THOSE GAMES!!! Besides, I have a friend who's obsessed with 'em, and has a ps2, so I'll play them later if I want to. I wasn't crazy of what I saw of the camera in 3, but that's all I can say about it. Looked kind of cool, we'll see.

I hope people aren't taking my posts too seriously.

I mean, I really like the HL series, but I'm only shouting and screaming about it here for the same reason as this:


tha_rami
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Posted: 11th May 2008 17:10
Bizar Guy, you just shamed yourself beyond what is considered normal.

Let me tell you, Metal Gear Solid is something special. Metal Gear Solid was, in any case. Metal Gear Solid 2 was a disappointment to most, and Metal Gear Solid 3 is a independent installment that deepens the story. MGS4 will most likely be the conclusion to what I consider the best franchise ever.


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Bizar Guy
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Posted: 11th May 2008 20:52
Yeah, I've heard that the the first one was the best, if I do play one I think I'll start with that.

entomophobiac
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Posted: 11th May 2008 21:12
Personally, I couldn't care less about MGS4. The first one was a great game, number two was at least interesting, but the third installment was boring beyond boring.

I wouldn't personally agree on "best franchise ever," since I'm quite the Thief fan, but I know that a lot of people adore the MGS-games. And that's the best part of being allowed an opinion, after all.
Bizar Guy
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Posted: 11th May 2008 21:27
Best series is LOZ


Then HL and Homeworld.


My roommate next year is a sucker for Duke Nukem... He's waiting for Duke Nukem Forever, and he really has been waiting forever.

tha_rami
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Posted: 11th May 2008 21:39
Ah, Thief. Great game as well, but I can't see it as an 'epic story' like MGS is. MGS4 will probably wrap a lot of questions up.

I thought MGS2 was the weakest installment, 1 being the best and you can guess where part 3 comes for me - in between.


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Zdrok
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Posted: 12th May 2008 01:53
Quote: "He's waiting for Duke Nukem Forever, and he really has been waiting forever."

I saw on GameSpot that DNF was cancelled.
tha_rami
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Posted: 12th May 2008 02:07
3D Realms doesn't agree with Gamespot, then:
http://www.3drealms.com/duke4/


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SunnyKatt
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Posted: 12th May 2008 02:28
I still say it's a massive april fools joke.

Bizar Guy
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Posted: 12th May 2008 15:22
Yeah, a ten year old April Fools joke with 3 engines showing full games... It's more like 3D Realms is crazy. They could be on the third DNF game it they wanted instead of the first!!

You see, they made an almost finished version of the game, scrapped it, made another, scrapped it, and are on a third now. And they've shown quite clearly that each engine was a nearly finished game.

SunnyKatt
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Posted: 13th May 2008 01:26
Well, everytime you'd get near to finishing a game of course the technology would be better then when you started - its not a signal to start over!

entomophobiac
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Posted: 13th May 2008 11:51
Quote: "Ah, Thief. Great game as well, but I can't see it as an 'epic story' like MGS is. MGS4 will probably wrap a lot of questions up."


On this account, I personally find Thief's storyline a lot more interesting. "Epic" is not interesting, if you ask me. MGS basically gets more corny and cheesy the further it's pushed along, whereas Thief makes perfect sense in every installation so far.

But the best part with the Thief titles in this comparison is that they're games -- they let you play what happens. They don't show you 10,000,000 hours of cutscenes and pre-generated dialogue sequences.
tha_rami
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Posted: 15th May 2008 19:38
The Metal Gear Solid story is anything but corny or cheesy. Maybe that the 'hidden' government is a bit cliché, but the story itself is as complex as it gets.

That you say you don't play Metal Gear Solid kinda proves that you've got no clue about the games. Although the story is interconnected by dialogue and cutscenes, you're definitely playing a game. You wouldn't even get out of the Dock/Tanker/Jungle if you just watched, I promise you.


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Joegio13
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Posted: 31st May 2008 00:39 Edited at: 31st May 2008 00:41
Clackersmith I like the way you articulate your opinions even though I don't agree with them, and with the exception of 1 of your post I find them to be honest and not hate driven. But I have to disagree with your opinion on how the general appeal of Halo is based on gamers that just haven't played enough games. I have played more then my share of games. I was playing games when the video game crash of 83 hit.
I liked Halo alot, I loved Halo, loathed Halo 2 and found Halo 3 redeeming. As a series I find it to be one of the great game trilogies ever, and that is even with my hatred for Halo 2. (then again Halo 3 somehow fixed Halo 2 story blunders and made them fit and even make sense) I had played Quake, 007 Goldeneye, Perfect Dark, Doom, Heretic, Duke Nukem 3D, Unreal Tournament and many other FPS's when the game came out. And yet I still loved the game. Why? Simple.

Execution

The game pulled off what others had only done in portion. Before Halo, I played different games for different reasons, but when Halo came out, it did what all those others did. Maybe not as good, but it had everything I wanted in one place. It executed amazingly. Story, Multiplayer, graphics, control scheme, game response, framerate, sound, dialog, ease of use, and it turned the console into a lan party machine. Do other games have better story? Yes. Do other games have Lan party capability? Yes. Do other games have better sound? Yes. Anything I say about Halo can easily be countered with an "yes, but X game did it first and better". Problem is that X game didn't intergrate all those great features into 1 little title like Halo did, and the few that did, didn't execute correctly. The only thing Halo did do that no one else has, is turn cool guys into geeks. I had friends that never liked video games and all of a sudden they are buying Xboxes. I had friends that where jocks and the only video game they would play is Madden and all of a sudden they wanted an Xbox. BTW, I am 32 and my friends are the same age or older.

Now another issue I have with what you say Clackersmith, and I hate to do this as I really like your comments even though I don't agree with them. (It's the way you express your opinions) You think that experienced gamers should judge what is best. Problem is that experienced gamers and game devs are the worst people to judge games. We know too much, and we have seen too much. We know when something is out of place, when a dev took a shortcut, and even what programing techniques are being used for certain part. We are not good judges. A great example is the 2004 fiasco Blinx. In the 2004 E3 Blinx was the talk of the town. Every dev and reviewer was in love with it's usage of HDD the way it was unconventional platformer and many other things. From a programming stand point the game is pure genius. Problem is we don't play the programming, we play the game. Every gamer hated the game and why not, the game sucked. Sure it did cool things, but the game still sucked even with what it could do.

I currently work in Discovery Channel and whenever we cut a show. We make sure to get focus groups to view the show first. Our groups range in all sorts of ages, sexes, and life situations. From that we get feedback, which is never what we expect. From there we edit the show to work witht he feedback we got and from there we screen the show to a large audiance. Let me tell you. What we like, they don't. Why? Cause we are the editors, and producers. We make the shows we like, the shows we feel will be fresh. And they are, they are new, artistic, compelling, and original, and in the end the audience always goes with cookie cutter.

The main buyer is the cookie cutter person, so in essense it is the cookie cutter that defines the standard. We as the enthuasist and devs are not well suited for the judging of a property. There is a reason Simon Cowell can't sing, yet he is a good judge of all things singing. He is a good judge, cause he can't and won't. Look at how actors and directors always like different movies then the people who vote for The Peoples Choice awards. The people buy the game, the people play the game, and the people give the game the life it has. As such only the people (ignorant as they may be) can truely be the good judges of the property.

On another note, I have also noticed that playing a game when it is being hyped kills the game. I loved Halo but I had not seen much hype on it when I played.

-sigh- DBPro can't program in the 4th dimension
Current Project: untitled 4 years, 5 restarts, 1% chance of ever finishing.
Bizar Guy
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2008 18:26
I can't believe this got a mention in the newsletter.

SunnyKatt
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2008 22:41
I know, this is pretty old...

Earl Walker
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Posted: 4th Jun 2008 18:26
As far as Console games go, Red Faction will always be the great console FPS in my mind ^_^ Halo never did it for me.

Agent Dink
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Posted: 5th Jun 2008 08:04
Ok, well I started playing through Halo 2 since I was finally able to hook my Xbox up to my monitor (my old screen was way too dark for the first few levels of Halo. I was getting frustrated with it) and it is alot better than the first one so far. I'll report back with my opinions when I have finished playing through the game, but honestly I'm far more close to being impressed by the game than I was Halo 1.

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