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Game Design Theory / What is so good about Halo?

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CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 5th Jun 2008 21:17
The Assault on the Control Room level in Halo 1 was tooo repetitive.....

Oh wow, another grey room filled with grunts...yayyyyyyy.......

Violent Pigeon
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Posted: 6th Jun 2008 21:12
Hmm personally i dont really like Halo, just makes me feel too Deja Vu, its all like... Wow done this before.
Walk into a room, kill stuff
Walk into another room, Kill stuff.
Same old Same old i just dont get on with it, i need tons of dynamic new things to do. so even when i have been running around the same zon efor 3 hours its still relatively new stuff about for me to play with. also as many things to use and try out as possible

My MMORPG: http://green-man.pbwiki.com or check out the forums at http://mechtech.webmmorpg.net

Zotoaster
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Posted: 7th Jun 2008 04:32
I was playing Halo 3 yesterday on campaign. I simply love the Road to Voi, and you can stop and look out at an awesome view of a big crater thing with lots of ships battling and lots of other spots around it where battle is happening, just like where you are. The atmosphere has to be what makes it so good I think.

Don't you just hate that Zotoaster guy?
CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 7th Jun 2008 11:35
Wait 'til you get to the 8th level, if you already haven't, now they really nailed the "Epic" there......

Huge battles in the air, You battling on the ground, grand-finale-that-turns-out-not-to-be-a-finale.....

Inspire
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Posted: 7th Jun 2008 21:03
I personally don't understand when people say they don't like Halo because it's

Quote: "Walk into a room, kill stuff
Walk into another room, Kill stuff."


Welcome to the FPS genre. Most games are like this. Halo is one of the ones who does it like that and keeps it entertaining the whole way, in my opinion.

Zotoaster
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Posted: 7th Jun 2008 22:28
Quote: "Wait 'til you get to the 8th level, if you already haven't, now they really nailed the "Epic" there......"


Actually I didn't really like that one.

To be honest, I don't think the Flood fit in the game much. Well, they make the story better, but the style of the game just changes too drastically. One minute it's all shiny and spacy and full of technology and stuff, then it turns into a horror game. Bleh..

Don't you just hate that Zotoaster guy?
CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 8th Jun 2008 01:59
Nah, forget the Flood, I'm talking about the bits where you have dogfights in Hornets......

That's what I call epic.....

Zotoaster
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Posted: 8th Jun 2008 04:03
Ah, yes. The bit with the two scarabs is most excellent

Don't you just hate that Zotoaster guy?
CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 8th Jun 2008 11:56
A bit too easy though, as soon as they landed, I concentrated fire on one of it's legs, destroyed it, then casually strolled round the back and fired a missile into it's back and blew it to Narnia.....

The legs are too vulnerable, mind you, after destroying that one, I turned round to face the other and got blown out of the sky by an ocoming green particle effect death-ray.....

Inspire
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Posted: 8th Jun 2008 20:07
I love flying the Hornet over the Scarab and jumping down onto it, destroying it, and flying away right before it explodes.

Zotoaster
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Posted: 10th Jun 2008 03:22
Quote: "A bit too easy though"

Meh. I don't have fun playing games that are too hard. For me it's just fine. Atleast it looks good and makes me feel like a bit of a hero

Don't you just hate that Zotoaster guy?
tha_rami
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Posted: 10th Jun 2008 04:08
Quote: "A bit too easy though, as soon as they landed, I concentrated fire on one of it's legs, destroyed it, then casually strolled round the back and fired a missile into it's back and blew it to Narnia....."

Now try that in Legendary mode . I took fifty tries to get that part done in Legendary, lol.


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Lord Einstein
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Posted: 10th Jun 2008 10:20 Edited at: 10th Jun 2008 10:21
I don't see why everyone praises Legendary mode so much. Sure its fun sometimes and it does completly change the game play, but its just too hard and you have to try the same sections over and over again untill you get past it by fluk. Legendary usually does not show your skill just your persistance at retrying a section.

I like Heroic
entomophobiac
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Posted: 10th Jun 2008 10:29
tha_rami:
Quote: "The Metal Gear Solid story is anything but corny or cheesy. Maybe that the 'hidden' government is a bit cliché, but the story itself is as complex as it gets."


I'm not referring to the story itself, but more to the presentation of that story. It can be as complex as you want it to be, but it's still a japanese game with camera controls for looking at cleavages, ridiculously long poses in cutscenes and movement that completely defies the style of the game.

To top it off, not even the newest installation has an animation system that looks anything like its western counterparts.

And most of the voice acting sounds like Escape from New York, moved over to the wrong century...


Quote: "That you say you don't play Metal Gear Solid kinda proves that you've got no clue about the games. Although the story is interconnected by dialogue and cutscenes, you're definitely playing a game. You wouldn't even get out of the Dock/Tanker/Jungle if you just watched, I promise you."


This is simply not true. I loved the first game, which still was a game. I didn't like the second installation as much, though I still played it. For the third installation, I simply couldn't bear watching two hours (no exaggeration) of cutscenes per five minutes of gameplay. Especially not when the gameplay was the same as ever, with a few twists.

For stealth games, I simply think Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory does everything a lot better. And the story of MGS is more bloated than epic, if you ask me.

I have a PS3 which I'll lend to a friend of mine that's a fan of the series, so he can play the fourth installation. But I have no expectations whatsoever.

It'll be interesting to see what I hope is the series' culmination. Nothing more.
tha_rami
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Posted: 12th Jun 2008 14:16 Edited at: 12th Jun 2008 14:19
I must agree the PSX version of Metal Gear Solid was the best version. Metal Gear Solid: Sons of Liberty was indeed exaggerated, although Metal Gear Solid: Snake Eater was highly impressive. I didn't think the cut scenes were too long, except for at the start of the game. I can't wait to see how Solid Snake and Liquid Snake'll end up, not to mention the Patriots and whatever is left of Ocelot. I do think that Snake was portrayed best in MGS1, followed by his more human side in MGS2. In the remake The Twin Snakes, he was more of a superhero thing-type with backflips and 360 degrees uberdoubletwist kamehameha-style things. I honestly and really disliked that, plus how they portrayed Otacon in that remake. I also think the voice acting is top-notch in most dialogue. As is the music, by the way.

Ah well, to each his own, right? We can discuss things forever, but some people like Coca Cola and others like Pepsi.


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Bizar Guy
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Posted: 12th Jun 2008 16:17
Homeworld ftw!

I'll take a look at MGS1 some time, maybe I'll try it.

Oh, and I found out HalfLife WAS based off of a Stephen King story, so I was right when I saw all those Stephen King references in the Half Life games and Portal.

And Halo is good because it's a scifi shooter that works and is light enough in style that most people can enjoy it. It's epic enough that you feel like a hero player it, and you don't have to worry so much about your health, giving it an arcade feel where it doesn't matter if you die so much. Also, it has a ringworld, which is cool.

Raven
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Posted: 22nd Jun 2008 05:27
Quote: "And Halo is good because it's a scifi shooter that works and is light enough in style that most people can enjoy it. It's epic enough that you feel like a hero player it, and you don't have to worry so much about your health, giving it an arcade feel where it doesn't matter if you die so much. Also, it has a ringworld, which is cool."


I've often found it quite amusing that people have said the Halo-Series are the best ever game (or FPS whatever... )
Simply because there are better FPS games out there.

Thing of it is though, is every one I've played over the years; which is an absolute crap-load as I like my FPS games.. is that they all seem to really excel in one particular area.

Halo on the other hand really doesn't focus on anything in particular, which to a few people might come off that it's bland and adverage; but here'in lies the beauty of the masterpiece that Bungie has made.

Does Halo have the best story ever? No
Does Halo have the best single player experience? No
Does Halo have the best graphics? No
Does Halo have the best controls? No
Does Halo have the most varied gameplay? No
Does Halo have... etc.. etc...

The thing is, if you ask if it's the worst the answer again is no for everything.

In-fact something you could answer every game aspect with is that it works how you expect it to. Halo has some of the best game balancing I've ever had the fortune to experience.

There is a deep storyline, but it doesn't go off on it's own tangent for years on end trying to explain every little detail; but it does give you enough to make you want to play on and see what happens. Quite in-genious really, because it's like a constant teaser trailer making you want to push forward... however it doesn't over-shadow the actual game itself. It doesn't distract you away from the fact that at the end of the day it's an FPS and the key element of FPS is that you get to shoot lots of things.

Part of the charm of the storyline and enemies in Halo is that it is very obvious who is "Evil", and the fact that you're playing as the underdogs (either as the Master Chief or Arbator) the fact is you're always playing the lone wolf underdog of a given situation trying to blast your way to your objective of basically staying alive enough to help save your own people.

As the series has gone on, the story has become deeper and deeper; with the last part quite frankly answering a few questions but leaving so many many many more unanswered.

Something that is amazing though is the gameplay of what happens between the story that is outline to make you want to progress through each ~30minute section of gameplay itself. The controls are that which are basically so simple that you can pick them up and within a couple of minutes it's obvious what does what without any need for tutorials.

Anyone remember Grand Theft Auto 4? You remember how over half the game (which btw can last for between 20-50hours depending on how side-tracked you get) are basically tutorials on how it works.
What makes that game worse is that the controls at times are sluggish, unresponsive and often a pain to actually play outside of a vehicle. While sure you can say "well GTA is about the vehicles" the fact is that it is a perfect example of a game throwing in an aspect because people expect it but obviously not being focused on enough.

Halo however doesn't suffer from this. Driving, Shooting, or just running around Stealth Killing everything in sight. The game is just so smooth at everything it does that you forget about what unresponsive difficult to control aspects are and can just enjoy the games' mechanics of blowing crap up. While sure it doesn't really bring anything particularly new to the table, once you learn the basics which take a couple of minutes; quite simply it's just a case of everything becoming second nature to get good at it.

Weaponry, Enemies, and Vehicles are all very very well balanced. Although sure everyone ends up with their favourites, that end up more down to personal taste and gameplay style than anything being unbalanced in any way.

What I feel is truely amazing is that this all translates between the multiplayer and single player aspects of the game seemlessly.
It's not a case of a Single Player game with some Multiplayer taked on because someone up-stairs felt it was necessary because everyone is connected to the internet... or a Multiplayer game with weak Single Player because they feel they needed to add something for the hopeless shut-ins and loners.

Both aspects of the game work doing the same thing absolutely amazingly. Half-Life for example has always been a great single player game.. but online it feels quite lack-luster. Conversely Unreal Tournament is a great online game, but off-line it feels like someone spent the afternoon at a Starbucks trying to find a way to make people feel a bit better they don't have friends.

Halo that just isn't the case!

With that, we come to the actual online aspects. This is where the game really did shine and make break-throughs.. while those who've only played it on the Xbox 360 will be used to having a truely social aspect as-standard. Those on the Playstation 3 will know that it's only a few titles (well until recent XMB updates) that really supported Voice, Messages, etc..

Halo and Halo 2 are basically the social aspects of Xbox Live we've all come to now take for granted. TruSkill, Messaging, In-Game Voice, Partying, Clans, Inviting to Games, etc...

This all began in these games, and in Halo 3 once again they've expanded to show what socialising online can really offer. As you can share maps, gametypes, movies and screenshots with friends; as well as being able to checkout your friends profiles and statistics.

Online this game is extremely social, and you'd think they would've ignored that for offline; but the social aspect has always expanded to getting a few mates around for multiplayer on the same console or co-operative story play. You can even take people you have on the same machine and play online with them without any graphical changes (coughtomclancygamescough)

As I said in one of my first posts, what is so great about the Halo-series isn't that it has feature X which is great. It's that all of the features, from graphics to level design; are all done in such a balanced way that while it'll never really win many awards for innovations or "greatest at.." awards. It will always be a game you can keep going back to because it is quite frankly enjoyable to play.

At the end of the day, the players enjoyment is paramount.
If you're going to focus on one aspect of the game, sure do that... but don't neglect other features simply for the games party peice.

That's the key to Bungies success with Halo.
Make sure the game is enjoyable, balanced, responsive and easy to use without looking in a manual (which honestly how many here do that until they truely get stuck?) ... and you've got a winner.

Alright so that was one of my trademark epic posts, but hey probably not gonna post again for another six months.

CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 6th Jul 2008 15:43
Wow...It was...Epic.....

Like Halo, I guess.....

Paradox
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Posted: 6th Jul 2008 18:39
People need to talk more about Halo in here not "Metal Gear Solid".

I love Halo. It does not need to be original to be great. Sometimes simplicity is key. In Halo, you are just a guy in a world with weapons and you can do whatever you want, mostly kill.
No special Achievements, Herbs, Lives, Stars, Points, Blocks, Goals, whodawhats and all of those things that make games soo complicated.
(Just Objectives.)
Halo is also revolutionary because there are few bugs, glitches errors, and overall interuptions.
----------------------------
The only thing I have a problem with is when Microsoft stopped making Halo for the PC!!!
----------------------------
Now I Have to buy an XBOX 360, all for one game.
(And GTA IV, Assasins Creed while I'm at it)

But since there is now Halo 2 out for Vista I guess maybe Halo 3 is to powerful for PC out there today and they will eventually Catch up.

Anyway, that's what I think about Halo, its awesome just because its simple, no bugs and stuff, and is altogether fun. If it werent for Halo, I wouldnt have come to The Game Creators.
Agent Dink
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Posted: 7th Jul 2008 06:41
Quote: "I guess maybe Halo 3 is to powerful for PC out there today and they will eventually Catch up."


PCs have already surpassed current-gen consoles Halo 3 could easily be a PC title.

SunnyKatt
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Posted: 7th Jul 2008 15:45
Where would the forum be without Raven's beastly posts...

And halo 3 isn't too powerful for a pc... honestly, how good do you think it looks?

Favorite Quote: Dramatized code? Code Drama!

Inspire
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Posted: 7th Jul 2008 20:43
I think it looks great, but not that great.

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RedneckRambo
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Posted: 8th Jul 2008 00:29
Quote: "Does Halo have the best story ever? No"

I actually disagree with that statement. No game's story has ever kept me intrigued like halo's has. Personally it's my favorite story of any game.

Quote: "People need to talk more about Halo in here not "Metal Gear Solid"."

I couldn't agree anymore.


Inspire
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Posted: 8th Jul 2008 01:08
I actually was really intrigued by Marathon's story, just reading the terminals was pretty interesting. You can see where they get some of their ideas from, especially in Halo 3.

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tha_rami
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Posted: 9th Jul 2008 23:14
Quote: "Quote: "People need to talk more about Halo in here not "Metal Gear Solid"."
I couldn't agree anymore."

You just failed as a gamer in my eyes. No game discussion can go without comparing a game to Metal Gear Solid (and consequently concluding that the relevant game is not as amazing as Metal Gear Solid was).

This topic needs to die. Now.


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entomophobiac
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Posted: 10th Jul 2008 10:20
Quote: "No game discussion can go without comparing a game to Metal Gear Solid (and consequently concluding that the relevant game is not as amazing as Metal Gear Solid was)."


[1. Insert any anti-MGS-fanboy comment]. [2. Insert any anti-anti-MGS-fanboy comment]. [3. Repeat from 1].
CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 11th Jul 2008 22:02
Quote: "guess maybe Halo 3 is to powerful for PC out there today and they will eventually Catch up."


Heheheh, I take it someone has never played Crysis.....

SunnyKatt
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Posted: 12th Jul 2008 04:41
@coffee grunt

Lol I know!

@tha_rami

GOD SHUT UP ABOUT MGS ALREADY!!! EVERY SINGLE THREAD!!! GAH!!!

lol, jk. As annoying as you are, we will tolerate your conversation.

Favorite Quote: Dramatized code? Code Drama!

CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 13th Jul 2008 17:56
I personally foud the game pretty fun, although not as fun as when I played Half Life 2, or Area 51, (man, my pants were constantly full when I played that game)......

I think the final boss fight was a let down, it was insultingly easy, I think fighting the Gravemindd would be much more fun, can you imagine, he attacks you with tentacles that kill in one hit, but you can dodge, then slash at the tentacle, making it come off, then laser him in the gob when he shouts in pain......

Not original, I know, but better than what they did before......

The final warthog run was poor too, it didn't have any urgency, the environements were just huge expanses of collapsing black tiles. It was nothing compared to the pulse pounding adrenaline-fest in the original, where you had to dodge obstacles and explosions that actually did damage. The timer made you constantly on edge, and whenever you flipped your warthog it was a mad rush to get back in.......

Then more adrenaline when you found out you had to drive another kilometer because Echo-419 got shot down....

Inspire
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Posted: 14th Jul 2008 06:46
Quote: "Then more adrenaline when you found out you had to drive another kilometer because Echo-419 got shot down...."


Yeah, that was pretty crazy. The last dash on foot has you on the edge of your seat...

Halo 3 is better than Half Life 2, I think. I actually stopped playing Half Life 2: Episode One somewhere along the line out of boredom, as opposed to Halo, where I am still playing it, on the same campaign levels (and multiplayer levels, with the addition of the new map packs). And for all those people who say the single player campaign is weak, I beg to differ. The multiplayer is the weak spot. They went a bit overboard with the bug testing with this one. In Halo 2, most of the fun (after wearing out the fun of the multiplayer itself) was finding ways to get out of the level, and walk around where the designers didn't intend you to go. In Halo 3, there is not one interesting spot like that on the multiplayer maps, compared to super bounces and all the nooks and crannies that you can jump or glitch your way to. I especially like getting outside of Ivory Tower.

I actually found Halo 3's campaign really entertaining, much better than the repetitive, unrewarding suckfest that was Halo 2's campaign, not to mention how much smoother it is. Halo: Combat Evolved was better in that sense because although it had a lot going on onscreen, the framerate wasn't nearly as choppy as Halo 2. The last two levels of Halo's single player are abysmal, though. I don't think I've replayed either a single time except for the sole purpose of looking for skulls and terminals.

CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 14th Jul 2008 08:20
Lol......

I still play halo when I want a game that I can just pick up and run with. But I stil think HL2 was alot more immersive.....and the ending was alot better too.......

SunnyKatt
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Posted: 14th Jul 2008 16:41
I like HL2 more, but I never got to playing episode 1.

Favorite Quote: Dramatized code? Code Drama!

Xenocythe
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Posted: 15th Jul 2008 00:18
The deal with Half Life 2, and then episode 1 and episode 2 is that there is a drastic decrease in the pace of the gameplay.

Half Life 2 is more about running away, keeping safe, reaching that destination and staying alive.

The half life 2 episodes are learning the story, why you were running, what the next move is, striking back, strategy.


All in all, it's a great series. Way too fun to play.

3.11 We do not tolerate posts made for the purpose of putting down another forum member, group of members, religion, our company, our staff or any of our moderators, past or present.
nackidno
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Posted: 15th Jul 2008 01:05 Edited at: 15th Jul 2008 01:05
NEVERMIND

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Inspire
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Posted: 15th Jul 2008 04:48
Ugh, I played Half Life 2: Episode 1 again yesterday, enjoyed it a good bit until I hit a jumping puzzle, which drove me away.
SunnyKatt
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Posted: 17th Jul 2008 15:33
Sounds not fun... I'll get back to episode 1 eventually. I'm too hooked to running people over in GTAIV.

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Lord Einstein
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Posted: 18th Jul 2008 09:13
I love half life 2 but I am waiting for them to finish all of the episodes. It is very likly that they will then release them as a box set and I can easily buy all of them on the cheap.
SunnyKatt
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Posted: 18th Jul 2008 14:50
Like the orange box? Or don't you want portal and TF2? Portal is a must...

Favorite Quote: Dramatized code? Code Drama!

Cian Rice
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Posted: 22nd Jul 2008 19:34
Well there's still Episode 3 to come... which isn't in the Orange Box. So they'll probably release like a Half Life 2 collection separately. Who knows. Anyways...

Good things about Halo? The pistol in the first game, the sword, the hammer, the mauler, and Forge.

Inspire
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Posted: 22nd Jul 2008 19:44
Spike grenades and firebombs are sweet.

Anybody else notice that flamethrowers are the new must-have weapon in games?
Agent Dink
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Posted: 23rd Jul 2008 03:07
I have noticed a small resurgence lately, but there used to be more flamethrowers in games than nowadays.

Bizar Guy
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Posted: 23rd Jul 2008 03:38
HALF LIFE SIERIES FTW!!!!!!!!

Ya'll be dissin' cause ya can't play a REAL man's game.

Inspire
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Posted: 23rd Jul 2008 03:48
JUMPING PUZZLES FTW!!!!

Not really. Gears of War is the way to go.
Bizar Guy
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Posted: 23rd Jul 2008 03:53
oh you poor, poor soul.

CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 23rd Jul 2008 19:41
*He's culturally devoid*

Anti Human
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Posted: 28th Jul 2008 23:05 Edited at: 28th Jul 2008 23:08
went from page 1 to page 9, so i might be repeating things that some one else said first.

MY view on games is that is unfair to ANY game to judge it based on what other dev's have released.

MGS, Halo, GoW, HL&HL2; as any one considered the type of player each of these games are aimed to please might not be the same?

MGS and Halo are vastly different; While I don't like run'n'gun i am better (and thus get more enjoyment) at shooting every enemy i see (Halo), but i am a complete failure when it comes time to hide from the enemy patrol and let it pass (MGS).

as far as console vs. PC i go PC, but that's me. Shadow Run proved the PC's rule to me. when a dev has to hedge game proformance from one platform to the next to keep a balance (which is necessary for cross-platform multi-play) then that settles it. again, that's me.

almost every one is good at more then one type of game, or more then one type of FPS (for me, OFP/ArmA, BF1942, UT-UT'04) but each of these games have major differences, and in my mind can not justly be compared to each other.

I do think that Halo(1,2,or 3) was/is ONE OF the best FPS on console. but when some 30 year old accountant living in the same bed room he had when he was 3 tells me that Halo is the best game, i smack them. Have they played EVERY game every released?

A Little off Topic:
my all time fav game isn't even a FPS, it's a old 8-bit game on the first nintendo called "Flight of the Intruder", based of a book by stephen coonts (also a movie).

but this 30 year old doesn't know the book, might know the movie, and wasn't even popping quarters to play 'Rampage' or 'Donkey Kong' when my little 7 year old butt was racing NOE to a fuel dump, dodging SAMs and Triple-A, mashing those little red buttons till my right thumb was redder.

Back to Topic:
people make opinions based on what they know to be true. the problem is some people voice their opinion as if it is fact and the rest of humanity is subject to their rule.

anways, that's about as far as i can streach my 2 cents.

Today is a good day, at least compared to tomorrow.
And every day is a good day to die, because then, there is no tomorrow

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