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FPSC Classic Product Chat / [LOCKED] Official efxMod Thread [56k Warning]

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ElInt
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Posted: 1st Apr 2008 07:33
This does not rely on PS 3.0, does it? A lot of people (myself included) have graphics cards which only recently became 'obsolete' but which also runs just fine.
My current computer is just fine; it has 1.5GB DDR RAM and a 256mb Radeon X700. I know it is inevitable that I upgrade and I will when I will, but do relief shaders ALWAYS have to rely on PS 3.0? Wouldn't it be better form and just more efficient if this sort of thing was not so heavily reliant on graphics specifications?
Summary:
Graphics card - I can run this software because I have the computing ability.
Software - Do you support Dx9c?
GC: No, but I perform about as well as your $200 video card today.
S: Sorry, I won't even give you a chance.

In short, is there a way to bypass these industry standards? I know that relief mapping has been going on for a while so I know that older cards can handle modern code...

elint.110mb.com
Toasty Fresh
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Posted: 1st Apr 2008 10:33
ElInt, stop double posting. It's really getting on my nerves.

Paola
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Posted: 1st Apr 2008 13:06
Somebody know the relase date?
ElInt
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Posted: 1st Apr 2008 14:17
Right here:
http://ati.amd.com/developer/rendermonkey/index.html
When it is installed, run it, open the advanced folder. You should be able to find the relief mapping (parallax offset or something). I have discovered that my graphics card indeed is capable of offset mapping, just not if it's been coded into the ParticleShader 3.0 language. However, they do have a GDK 2.0 version; it works better than parallax mapping, and the fact that it works proves my '04 graphics card is capable of such functions.
However, it seems not to do the silhouette mapping. *Sigh* I'll probably be getting a new graphics card today.

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Nighthawk
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Posted: 1st Apr 2008 14:21
Quote: "ParticleShader 3.0"


You mean PixelShader (there's no 'Particle Shader 3.0')
Offset Mapping, imho, is really... bad

We'll stay with Relief, Parallax & Normal Mapping - it's just that stuff that's already in 1.49


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ElInt
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Posted: 1st Apr 2008 15:23
Wait, it's parallax occlusion mapping. It's the same as relief mapping, I think, but then I wouldn't know. If you have a system which you know works, then by no means change it!
Just noting the fact that PixelShader 3.0 is not REQUIRED for such complex procedures...
In essence, it is foolish to rely on new software anyways, best to make all progressive usages of recent software clearly optional and not intertwined to the game's abilities (in my opinion).
(I am quoting here, this is not plagiarism.)
Quoting the readme from the file:
"Parallax Occlusion Mapping SM 2.0 example:

This workspace demonstrates a technique described in the ShaderX3 article:
"Parallax Occlusion Mapping: Self-Shadowing, Perspective-Correct Bump Mapping
Using Reverse Height Map Tracing" by Zoe Brawley and Natalya Tatarchuk

This article will describe advanced parallax mapping techiques implemented using real-time shaders for creating convincing illusion of depth and detailed surfaces without increasing the geometric complexity of rendered objects. Parallax mapping allows approximating correct appearance and lighting of uneven surfaces by modifying the texture coordinate for each pixel [Welsh03]. The effect of parallax is seen by the viewer when portions of a surface appear to move relative to one another due to a change in the view position. Thus parallax is a very important visual cue for viewing
non-flat surfaces. However, creating a complex geometric object to simulate the details of the surface is computationally expensive and thus prohibitive to real-time rendering practices. Instead surface height data can be used for approximating surface appearance using techniques described in this chapter.

For more details about this approach, please see the article in the book.

http://www.shaderx3.com"

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Paola
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Posted: 2nd Apr 2008 22:51
Re-quote my post :

* Somebody know the relase date?
* It's free for non-commercial game?

Thanks!
gtplyr
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Posted: 3rd Apr 2008 06:20
@Paola

1.the site is off line right now but check back in a week or so (the betas have been released for download and i dont know what the official will be).

2.read the first post in this topic please.
ElInt
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Posted: 3rd Apr 2008 08:27
I have my new graphics card. It is Pixel Shader 3 compatible and it works. The only reason I could not implement relief mapping was that my old card was not Pixel Shader 3 compatible. The FPSC segments seem to function as well.
I'd guess that 'obsolete' hardware would account for 1/2 of all FPSC difficulties.
***On topic, PC advice to implement EfxMod***
Sadly, upgrading your graphics card is your only option it seems. At least my new one is a little bit better, was $80, and I can get another if I like it (which I do) to see what this whole double-card thing is all about.
Well, at least a decent graphics card is cheap these days. Building a new computer for my dorm might not be so bad after all.
And if you don't know what Pixel Shader 3 is, you need to learn. If there's anything I got out of this shenanigan it's a basic understanding of the underlying mechanics in GPUs. It's always good to have at least a vague idea of the equipment you use in any trade, and game design is no exception.

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Nighthawk
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Posted: 3rd Apr 2008 12:03 Edited at: 3rd Apr 2008 12:04
Quote: "Re-quote my post :

* Somebody know the relase date?
* It's free for non-commercial game?"


Re-quote my posts

Okay... I won't requote myself now... I wrote it over 10 times, so you have to look it up on the previous pages.
But these two questions have already been responded to, for sure


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_sYn_
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Posted: 3rd Apr 2008 14:16
I have quote some posts

Quote: "at the moment non-commercial only (because it's beta - or even alpha)
commercial uses have to be arranged (at the moment not really possible...)"


Quote: "So, i expected a release on April 1st... but... nah ok
I thought about... end of this week maybe"


-Im sorry for my bad english-
Paola
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Posted: 3rd Apr 2008 14:56
EHheh Sorry NightHawk i'm npt speak and read english very good :p
FastBurst 2
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Posted: 3rd Apr 2008 18:21
NightHawk - Can I get the latest build of this I would love to test this to see if it is compatabile with Phoenix Game Protection.

Let me know thanks.

~James

Phoenix Sentry Programmer & CoFounder
FastBurst 2
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Posted: 3rd Apr 2008 18:22
Also if you need some place for your files to be downloaded and controlled let us know. =)

~James

Phoenix Sentry Programmer & CoFounder
Nighthawk
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Posted: 3rd Apr 2008 18:50
Quote: "NightHawk - Can I get the latest build of this I would love to test this to see if it is compatabile with Phoenix Game Protection."


Sorry, we have our betatesters
and it i think it is compatible with PGS

Quote: "Also if you need some place for your files to be downloaded and controlled let us know. =)"


No need.


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Lennard
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Posted: 3rd Apr 2008 18:57 Edited at: 3rd Apr 2008 19:02
.

(edit)
Nighthawk, the game building crashes when trying to set "efxbloomblurpasses" via script trigger. Gives a error in end of the build.

Just letting you know.

Nighthawk
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Posted: 3rd Apr 2008 18:58 Edited at: 3rd Apr 2008 18:59
ummm....
Quote: "."


mhh yeah, i have the same opinion


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FastBurst 2
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Posted: 3rd Apr 2008 19:14
I would be willing to give you a copy of Phoenix Game Protector Professional Edition.

Your call, if you think it is compatible, not being rude, just doesn't sound very convident that it will.

~James

Phoenix Sentry Programmer & CoFounder
Nighthawk
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Posted: 3rd Apr 2008 19:19
Quote: "I would be willing to give you a copy of Phoenix Game Protector Professional Edition.

Your call, if you think it is compatible, not being rude, just doesn't sound very convident that it will."


Sorry. As i said before, we have our fixed Alpha-/Betatesters and i'm not going to break our own rules for distributing unofficial software

I'll give you a efxMod Build later, when we think it is ready for that kind of betatest.

The efxMod is officially pushed to mid-april due to personal reasons


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FastBurst 2
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Posted: 3rd Apr 2008 19:23
Fair enough thanks for replying. It looks like a really great product. When it is released for the Betatest that you mentioned, I can offer alot o f testing considering that I am a Microsoft MVP and have access to every build of Windows Platforms. I can literally test on every platform to see what is compatible and what is not.

32bit & 64bit builds as well.

As well as a wide range of video cards adn Super PC systems.

~James

Phoenix Sentry Programmer & CoFounder
Nighthawk
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Posted: 3rd Apr 2008 19:28
Okay, good to hear that.
I noted it on my notes wall (yeah i got one of these walls where I can write on with a marker - non-permanent, of course )
mhh is that really called 'notes wall' or so? I never needed to say or describe that thingy...

Anyways, thanks for your posts.


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Paola
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Posted: 3rd Apr 2008 20:39
Ok Mid-April thanks!
Gunn3r
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Posted: 3rd Apr 2008 22:36
@Nighthawk, I think it's either called a whiteboard or a blackboard, depending on the style. If it is white, and you use markers, it's a whiteboard. If you use chalk, it's a blackboard.

Nighthawk
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Posted: 3rd Apr 2008 23:01
Okay... it's a whiteboard
(and it's magnetic, too...)


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djmaster
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Posted: 4th Apr 2008 13:43
so when can we expect the 1.50 with all those preformance improvments?

Soldier of Fortune Episode 1
Nighthawk
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Posted: 4th Apr 2008 13:45
Can you read?


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djmaster
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Posted: 4th Apr 2008 13:49
i dont think so beacause i dont see anything

Soldier of Fortune Episode 1
Nighthawk
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Posted: 4th Apr 2008 13:52 Edited at: 4th Apr 2008 13:52
Just look at one of the first posts on this page
Or 8 posts over yours, it's even in bold letters


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djmaster
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Posted: 4th Apr 2008 14:12
oh tny didnt saw that

Soldier of Fortune Episode 1
Juzi
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Posted: 4th Apr 2008 15:30
I have an idea for simple anti-aliasing. EFX Mod has DOF right? Maybe, if you could change the DOF starting point and density via sliders, it could blur the screen just a bit so the rought edges disappear a bit.

http://koti.mbnet.fi/teora/intersoft/
Lennard
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Posted: 4th Apr 2008 16:14 Edited at: 4th Apr 2008 16:15
Intresting Juzi...And what FPSC games really need is an settings tuner from main menu like ALL THE OTHER GAMES HAVE .

Nighthawk
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Posted: 4th Apr 2008 16:34
the DoF has a really anti-aliasing-like effect, a bit too blurry, though, but if you use it on high resolutions like mine (1920x1200) it's looks pretty neat with a bit DoF

@ Lennard: already planned


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Lennard
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Posted: 4th Apr 2008 17:32
Sweet !

Juzi
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Posted: 4th Apr 2008 17:38
OK nice

http://koti.mbnet.fi/teora/intersoft/
Gunn3r
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Posted: 4th Apr 2008 18:00
I'll be using EFX for Emergence II. Since it will incorporate AirMod, I'm really looking forward to messing around with some of the modded stuff. Great job, Nighthawk.

Orrion Carn
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Posted: 4th Apr 2008 18:56
I'm sorry Nighthawk.

But I couldn't get to sleep at all last night because I've been thinking:

What if their is never going to be a commercial version? How would I get my game to be made in EFXmod, and commercially sold? Would it be possible to give like a royalty to you for using EFXmod in my commercial game?

Again, sorry. This is the last time I talk about the commercial version.



My first animated Gif. Made in GIMP 2.
Nighthawk
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Posted: 4th Apr 2008 19:01
I think it will be possible to use the efxMod for commercial games, but i'm not sure, if there will be a royalty or something like this... i'll have to talk to Lee

anyways, a commercial use has to be discussed, when 1.5 is out finally

Orrion Carn, maybe you can get MSN or ICQ...


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Orrion Carn
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Posted: 4th Apr 2008 19:08
I have a Yahoo. It seems to work with MSN.

Again, sorry for bring it up. But thanks for the awnser.



My first animated Gif. Made in GIMP 2.
djmaster
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Posted: 4th Apr 2008 20:23
and will be there finally added a support for video backgrounds in main menu? like gif and avi support,for buttons too

Soldier of Fortune Episode 1
Nighthawk
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Posted: 4th Apr 2008 20:48
for GIFs? are you joking?
no one would use that format for background movies in a video game...

but yeah, there will be support for video backgrounds


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Aertic
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Posted: 4th Apr 2008 21:05
Yes, finnaly!
Keep it up! I like the RGB changer.

-Offtopic-
Also I watched that inside helix video twice now, I can tell what you are saying, its about that darn Mp3 light, I hate it too.
djmaster
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Posted: 4th Apr 2008 21:25
i didnt meant for backgrounds,for buttons so they look cool if they are animated,and the video support will be probably in 1.50 right? and what about showing a avi video before you get into main menu,that would be cool too or a credit button in main menu wich shows a video or picture

Soldier of Fortune Episode 1
Nalle Karhu
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Posted: 4th Apr 2008 21:34
When are you relasing 1.50?
Aertic
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Posted: 4th Apr 2008 21:48
soon no doubt.
Also Djmaster, seeing what you mean it will be cool, Example; Anyone seen the phoenix protection buttons, there cool, how about if we have them? that will be even cooler.
FastBurst 2
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Posted: 4th Apr 2008 21:51
You can use the phoenix buttons if you have them they come with the purchase of Phoenix as media pack add-ons.

~James

Phoenix Sentry Programmer & CoFounder
Nighthawk
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Posted: 4th Apr 2008 21:56
Quote: "When are you relasing 1.50?"


I won't answer to that question anymore!
This has been asked such often...

Quote: "i didnt meant for backgrounds,for buttons so they look cool if they are animated,and the video support will be probably in 1.50 right? and what about showing a avi video before you get into main menu,that would be cool too or a credit button in main menu wich shows a video or picture"


i don't know if we release that features with the first official 1.5 release, maybe a later version gets them (like 1.55 or so)
The release version should be 1.54 due to some alphatests in the german community


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ElInt
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Posted: 5th Apr 2008 06:25 Edited at: 5th Apr 2008 07:34
Does anyone know where I could find any version of EFXmod? I deleted the old version as I was error checking (vid card wasn't PixelShader 3.0 compatible, turns out) and uninstalled it; now I have said video card but I have no way to implement relief mapping. Efx v1.4+ or an explanation on how to implement said technology myself would be much appreciated. The latter moreso, but both certainly wouldn't hurt.
Here's my reliefshader, by the way. Knock yourself out with the source code; don't hesitate to show me your work.
Ah, and a youtube link if your video card lacks PixelShader 3.0 compatibility.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=SgJTknPsPds
Update:
I forgot; here is my gmail address: meaconing. help of any sort would be much appreciated and possibly rewarded. Please use my email to avoid crowding.

elint.110mb.com

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FPSaniMAN
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Posted: 5th Apr 2008 07:28
Looking forward to the 1.5 release.

*bug reports on your timerbased fps (based on the Airmod's release):

I hear you've resolved the "door" bug, however have you or your betatesters encountered a bug where you literally fall through the floor when you get close to walls when running?
One time I fell through the floor and stayed in mid air...very strange!

Overall if you've resolved these issues your release could very well bring a whole needed dimension to FPSC.

Thanks
ElInt
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Posted: 5th Apr 2008 07:48 Edited at: 5th Apr 2008 07:48
He fixed the doorbug - claims it was a problem with the bloom shader.
It had its own collision/detection from being rendered in front of the user or something. Now he uses 'invisible shaders' which eliminate this problem.
I'd assume all collision issues root from said detection. Hence, it should be very much playable by v1.5.
I would imagine the addition (recent?) of Airmod will very much improve performance in comparison to FPSC base.

What I like most about Efx is just the fact that you get a very professional feel from the whole thing.
You can see relief mapping in his youtubes. I'm banking on his release of v1.5 and hence holding off on additional product development in favor of getting to know the FPSC platform, Darkbasic, and computing in general.

If you see the youtube or use the demo, you can see it is a very efficient technique at using lowres (1024x1024 in my case) textures to render HiRes displays; the alternative to HiRes is hires textures (about 8192 or 8*8 (64x) more pixels/load time) and no PixelShader.
This takes up a lot of ram and takes a long time to load in at comparable 'resolutions.'
Realism is pathetic even for RAM-consuming hires alone; it would be beautiful on so many levels for hires and relief mapping, but then it wouldn't matter after you get past about 4096*4096, or 4*4 (16x) more pixels.
I know from experience that this produces a load time of about 3 seconds; I have not tested it with relief mapping, however, because genetica does not produce such a large texture; tiling would eliminate the purpose.
I'm still learning Texture Maker (may use it to bypass said limit and the aliasing limit which is 1024^2).

elint.110mb.com
Plystire
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Posted: 5th Apr 2008 08:08
To quote myself -

Quote: "Posted: 21st Feb 2008 00:40

[quote] Fpsc fully removes new install. An again the doors don't work.
You hear the sound that they open
But the door itself remains closed.
Am I alone with this problem?
I use modelpacks from The game Creators "


This is a bug that happens on some machines and it directly relates to the way Bloom is rendered. (There's a hint for you NightHawk, so don't say I never did anything for ya )

I was fortunate to have a machine that replicated this bug and was able to find a solution for Lemur.


The one and only,
~PlystirE~[/quote]


Check out the date on which I posted that.

All I can say right now is: I told you so.


The one and only,
~PlystirE~

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