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Work in Progress / Vision

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C0wbox
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Posted: 2nd Mar 2008 15:01
@ Mr Z
Good. Nice to know I have solid fans.

Joeeigel
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Posted: 2nd Mar 2008 16:07 Edited at: 2nd Mar 2008 17:20
Update: 17 New textures have been made, and most of which will feature, and even replace some textures in vision. Keep an eye out for these new textures. More to come.

Edit: Screen shot! No lighting effects, just to show off the new textures.



Enjoy the new look.

I will also keep changing the number on this post. So, keep checking in

C0wbox
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Posted: 2nd Mar 2008 16:08 Edited at: 2nd Mar 2008 16:08
Just so you all know, Joeeigel works on Vision with me.
So everybody say, "Hello Joe"


tha_rami
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Posted: 2nd Mar 2008 16:20
Hello Joe


A mod has been erased by your signature because it was larger than 600x120
White Fang 12
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Location: In my office coding
Posted: 2nd Mar 2008 16:34
I'm excited to see this game evolve and maybe get better graphics and sound but the game is good I'm not a big fan of the lazer aiming i thing there should be a cross hair and you can aim up and down.

I'm a noob help will be accepted
C0wbox
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Posted: 2nd Mar 2008 16:46
@ White Fang 12
Yeh there will be better graphics in version 0.04 (which I'm going to release in just a few moments) and better sound, eventually... As for the aiming system, well, you are fighting in such close quaters that one sweep of the lazer means you don't need a crosshair, but I do see that it would be quite hard to shoot someone below or above the robot.

I'll see what I can do for version 0.05.

C0wbox
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Posted: 2nd Mar 2008 16:57 Edited at: 2nd Mar 2008 17:14
Version 0.04 (02/03 build)

Just another small update, this one strips out the old drawn-in-MS_Paint textures and replaces them with a fresh bunch that Joe made.

As usual, Vision can still be downloaded from here:
Vision 0.04.zip

Screenshots:

A render from Deled LITE.


A render in-game.

Insert Name Here
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Posted: 2nd Mar 2008 19:42 Edited at: 2nd Mar 2008 19:51
Awesome.

EDIT: Let me convey my mixed feelings about the new textures. while they do make the environment look more detailed and less plain, they also make it look a little hastily done, and also they don't really seem to fit with the area. I personally think the walls/floor should look more sterilized.

But that's just me.

Lee Bamber - Blame Beer
Insert Name Here
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Posted: 2nd Mar 2008 20:06 Edited at: 2nd Mar 2008 20:07
*DOUBLE POST I KNOW*

Let me show an example: On the right you see your current box texture. It's OK, but it doesn't seem 'futuristic' enough. On the right I something I rustled up in a 10 minutes. It's hasty, but it looks more metallic and space age.



Lee Bamber - Blame Beer

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Joeeigel
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Posted: 2nd Mar 2008 20:25 Edited at: 2nd Mar 2008 20:49
Well, I have only just hopped back onto the soharix wagon, I'm currently working on remaking most of the textures in vision, and the one you selected, I forgot about. I'll get to work on it soon,

Thanks for the feedback

EDIT: That isn't the style we are going for with vision as far as I am aware, We want clean textures, but not too futuristic, maybe more... Minimalistic?

Insert Name Here
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Posted: 2nd Mar 2008 20:38
Quote: "Well, I have only just hopped back onto the soharix wagon, I'm currently working on remaking most of the textures in vision, and the one you selected, I forgot about. I'll get to work on it soon, "

OK. Excellent
Quote: "EDIT: That isn't the style we are going for with vision as far as I am aware, We want a clean few textures, but not too futuristic, maybe more... Minimalistic?
"

Ah, OK. I see what you are saying.

Lee Bamber - Blame Beer
C0wbox
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Posted: 2nd Mar 2008 21:58
Just to let you know, Joe and I are going to have a go at making the wall texture, the box texture and under-water-floor texture look a bit better.

Pet A Mizzle
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Posted: 2nd Mar 2008 22:12
What i've noticed is that sometimes it takes like 60 clicks to click a probe thing and sometimes only one. O.o

The speed is Sooooo Sloowwww but for some odd reason at the end of teh training lesson the speed is much faster, Woah!

I like the jump noise! Did you know screen for goign up and down with camera angle is inverted?
Mr Z
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Posted: 3rd Mar 2008 18:04 Edited at: 3rd Mar 2008 18:04
Found an bug. Image is attatched.

And the new textures was quite nice .

Darkness, you haunt me. If I give in, I would be an monster beyond imagining. Light, you guide me. Thanks to you, I see past the nothingness. Life, I choose to live in the light.

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C0wbox
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Posted: 3rd Mar 2008 19:07 Edited at: 3rd Mar 2008 23:32
@ Pet A Mizzle
The laser isn't meant to fire once then recharge, its a beam: you just slice the enemy with it and after a little while, they die.

The speed is only going to be slow on your PC, which I can't do anything about.

No the camera isn't inverted. It is exactly how it should be in an 3PS, which is after all, the main feel of the game. It could only be classified as inverted in comparison to something else, but as there isn't anything we're comparing it to, it isn't inverted, it is verted.

@ Mr Z
Well, it's not so much a bug, but yeh I accept its a problem, I do know it does that but don't really have a nice quick fix. Because to get them to react properly to floors I would have to have another command to check for the floors distance and to make them move down. So unless anyone has any bright ideas I may just have to avoid the drones being able to do that.

(But of course, you do realise they are floating in the first place, so there isn't really any problem in them floating above you. - We could just assume they have no upthrust control.)

Insert Name Here
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Posted: 3rd Mar 2008 21:15
Quote: "No the camera isn't inverted. It is exactly how it would be in an FPS, which is after all, the main feel of the game (you are just behind the player.)
"

3PS, surely?
OK enough of my nitpicking.

Lee Bamber - Blame Beer
C0wbox
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Posted: 3rd Mar 2008 22:21
@ Insert Name Here
xD

@ Everyone
Just to let everyone know, Joe and I eventually settled on some nice textures and got to the following image:


So this is where the game is at the moment.

I have also done the options menu which looks quite nice.

So rather than releasing another version and making you all excited over a version with not a lot of improvement, I thought I'd just tell you all to expect it in the next one which should have something more interesting in it.

Bizar Guy
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Posted: 4th Mar 2008 00:03
I played the new demo, 3 things. The new movement makes it a lot easier to aim, but not to move. The other movement was much better for moving. I recommend having the gun equippable and switch movements then. Then the boxes seem to weigh nothing. They shouldn't bounce like that at all, unless under water. And the last thing is the sound levels are WAY off. the voice needs to be at least twice as loud, and the sounds twice as low. And the water sound played the whole time you're under water.


BlockVerse-> Old School Beta Demo-> Dream-> Old School-> Guitar Platformer
C0wbox
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Posted: 4th Mar 2008 00:16 Edited at: 4th Mar 2008 00:17
@ Bizar Guy
I understand the way you move isn't to everyones preference so I will include the functionality to make it so when you have a gun, you move like that and when you don't, you move in the traditional sense.

Yes, everyone has said the boxes are far too light, but even by setting their mass to 10,000 they still bounce, but they try to slide through the map, so this is obviously too big a mass. The reason, I feel is because the player is using a rigid kinematic body that is just positioned and rotated to the player. This therefore means that no physics object can push the player and that any force the player uses, is directly applied through this rigid kinematic body and because there is no resistance to the player's movement from the box, it flies off quite forcefully and bounces. Now whether I just need to increase the friction, the mass and the bounceyness to get it to work, I don't know, but I'll fiddle with some things.

If anyone knows what I should be doing about the boxes^^^, please help me out.

I have already stated on more than one occasion that the sounds are not perfect. I don't live in a perfect environment, my computer fan speeds change depending on the temperature of my room, so there is sometimes more background noise, bla bla bla... - The point is that I will redo all the soundtrack at some point and I will re-record all the commentary once I have actually finished making the training centre and sticking new game elements into it that could potentially change previous commentary tracks.

I would have waited to do the commentary until after I did the training centre but I wanted to make the speaker objects at least do something and give everyone a feel for how that part of the game was going to play out.

Ortu
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Posted: 4th Mar 2008 01:26
Quote: "The speed is only going to be slow on your PC, which I can't do anything about."


you should really try to get everything timer based, that will keep it smooth on most any PC

progress seems to be going well so far though, it's a fun little game

Mr Z
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Posted: 4th Mar 2008 07:29
C0wbox, about the boxes,

I have not used Dark Physics for a time noe and do not have time to install it, but you can try to modify the friction of the objects. Also, try to learn more about materials . They can help with this kind of stuff.

And about the drones,

How are you doing now? Because I guess you have an collision system, or you are using Dark Physics. If you are using an collision system that you allow to interfear with Dark Physics, it should only be an matter of applying an simple gravity and let the collision deal with hitting the floor. In case you are using Dark Physics, I have not really explored AI objects, so I do not really know.

Darkness, you haunt me. If I give in, I would be an monster beyond imagining. Light, you guide me. Thanks to you, I see past the nothingness. Life, I choose to live in the light.
C0wbox
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Posted: 4th Mar 2008 09:33 Edited at: 4th Mar 2008 09:33
@ Ortu
Yeh people have been telling me to make things timer based since I knew what the phrase meant. But knowing what it means and that I should use it doesn't mean I can. - I have no idea how to make it timer based.
Do you think you could elaborate? (Or anyone else?)

@ Mr Z
I will look into materials and see what I can do about the boxes.

The game is using Dark Physics and Sparky's collision DLL to control both the boxes and the gameplay (respectively) so Dark Physics isn't actually used on the character or the drones or half of the level, it is only there to ensure the boxes collide physically with it to make them useful wherever you go. The rest of the gameplay is using Sparky's collision DLL to get the grouping of objects to work properly, the smooth reliable sliding collision etc.

There is currently only one problem I face with the drones which you or anyone else may be able to help with:
The problem is not with the following AI, I can probably do that, but with multiple drones. The problem is in that you can only have one following you at a time. This is because the collision sphere around the player simply detects for a collision with the drone group and moves that object towards it. And if you collide with more than one drone, it only moves the drone that was made last. So every other drone waits their turn before being able to move.

I personally don't see what I can do about this, I'm not familiar with the concept that would get all of them to follow me.

Dr Manette
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Posted: 4th Mar 2008 21:41
In terms of the AI, I don't have any code to look at so I can't really help well. However, I think if you store each of the drone's numbers as the collision is detected in an array you'll be able to see which drones are "active".

C0wbox
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Posted: 4th Mar 2008 22:48 Edited at: 4th Mar 2008 22:48
@ Dr Manette
Thats the problem, it only detects a collision with the last drone that was created.

E.G. if objects 14 and 16 were both drones and colliding with the sphere around the player, only object 16 would be detected and it would return 16 as the value for that collision.

Dr Manette
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Posted: 5th Mar 2008 02:25
Could you post a snippet of the code that detects the collision so I can see how you're doing it? You should be able to check collision with multiple objects either with a for next loop or with multiple ray casting.

You could alternately use vectors to check the distance between all drones and the player.

Pet A Mizzle
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Posted: 5th Mar 2008 03:07
I like the bouncyness of the boxes it adds good veriaty of the gamr, b ecause I can bounce them up then jumnp on them in mid air. So Fun! xD

~Petamizzle.
Deagle
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Posted: 5th Mar 2008 14:27
I'd like to play this but i'm too lazy to download and install physx drivers :< (newton ftw )

Deagle aka D-Eagle
C0wbox
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Posted: 5th Mar 2008 16:46 Edited at: 5th Mar 2008 16:47
@ Dr Manette
Sure, here is the code for the collision between the drones and the large sphere around the player.

Code:


Extra info:
Object 9 is the sphere, group 2 is the group all the drones are in.
MAP#(DC2-10,4) is just the type of object in the game, and drones are type 3.
X#, Y# and Z# are the player's X, Y and Z variables.

@ Pet A Mizzle
Well they aren't meant to bounce that much, so don't get used to it. They should change once I investigate friction, bounceyness and materials.

@ Deagle
Oh well, you won't be able to play then. - Remember, AGEIA Physics is the current leader in Physics software and hardware so the drivers are likely to be a bit more mandatory than Newton's DLL, in the future.

Xenocythe
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Posted: 6th Mar 2008 00:57
Here we go...

Yes, this game reminded me a load of portal. I just played it recently as well. (Don't worry mates, I just finished Half life 2, and episode 1 last week... almost done episode 2 now Half Life FTW!)

I was bored with after the first few levels. The thing is, most training levels for games are much faster paced.
The voice on the speakerphones was kind of just shabby and unprofessional. If you can get actual voice-work for this, that sounds nice, deep, and good, it could really make the game more awesome.
I'd love to see a gundam wing type robot in there as your character, with anime style running and jumping animations. That would really be great fun to play with. The shader on the character is great though, love it.
The physics on the boxes was not that bad. Though, for a box, you should add more wight to it, so it's less like a paper box and more like what it should be, and it won't tip over and fly around as much.

Finally, I have a rant about the first level. It was way too hard!
That's actually what bore me the most, and it's bad that it was in the beginning that got bored. It took me way too long to beat this level.


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C0wbox
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Posted: 6th Mar 2008 01:35 Edited at: 6th Mar 2008 01:41
@ Xenocythe
Here I go...

You speak of the training centre as having levels? - They are sections, the levels will be clearly indicated in the real game.

For the third time now, yes I know having the same person who does the programming, the modeling and the imagery doing the sounds and voices is a bad idea, but who else do I have? - Have you seen the writeup on the Soharix website? - It currently includes only myself and Joe. But oh well, I already said, I will redo them, they are just temporary, placehold, filling in, to give you an idea of what it will really be like.

So can we now just drop the fact that the soundtrack sucks?

Onto the robot... - why would I want a Gundam robot in a cartoony game? Surely having a Gundam robot would make it gundam, not Vision. This game is meant to look funny, its not meant to look top quality and have all the amazing effects. We must bare in mind here, that I can't animate to save my life, and have no one to animate for me. So in the respect that I am cheating in the walking animation, because I can't animate the model, how would I animate some special robot with wings and fancy joints in his legs? How would I do all the anime effects as well? - Please consider how this game is actually being made before making random comments like I'd love to see a gundam wing type robot in there as your character.

Oh and heres a familiar topic - boxes. For the third time, I know the boxes are light and bouncey, I just learnt how to use Dark Physics.

And now onto your rant:
You speak of the first level - It's all the first level, it's the only level; There is only one level in the training centre.

But if you mean, the first section, then you can't be serious? - How is jumping up onto a platform hard?

I don't know how but for some reason I got the idea you were actually refering to the part where you had to jump onto the platforms in the first water room. And yes, that is hard, because others were moaning it was too easy. - So, as the only good gained from your post Xenocythe, I will change that back to how it used to be, with smaller jumps.

As a final note:
Can people stop bringing up topics that have been discussed before, it really is quite annoying now, especially as I've said, I'll do something about it. I'm busily beavering away on what feels like 3 million things on the game, like the textures, the aiming system, the AI, the collisions, the physics, the menus and all I keep getting back are complaints about the same topics, sound and physics. - Now if anyone has any helpful comments to make on how to actually solve some of the following problems then please, post. Post lots and actually help the game.:
"How do I make the game timer based?"
"What are the commands I'm looking for to solve the bouncey box problems?"
"How do I get multiple enemies to follow me?"
"How do I get the cartoon shading on the player to stop screwing up, because it seems that wherever the light is in the scene, or whatever texture the black part of the player is, it is always solid black with a stupid white cartoony circle on it where the light shines on it, consiquently hidden in the players neck by putting the ambient light inside him?"
"How exactly should I improve the soundtrack?"
"Does anyone actually want to help with the game's production?"

Etc...

(I apologise for an ongoing aprehensive tone during this post, just posting the same thing again, isn't helping anyone: not me, not Soharix, not Vision.)

tha_rami
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Posted: 6th Mar 2008 01:59
You know, the boxes and the soundtrack really suc...

No, I'm just kidding here. It's a great start, and I can see now why you dropped MTM in favour of this.

A side note, ignore critics you don't care about. Ranting back only clutters your own post. Just rant as bump when you need one.


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Xenocythe
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Posted: 6th Mar 2008 02:38
Sorry mate, didn't mean it like that at all

I should've told you I loved it, it was really great work. I was just poking out whatever I could to try and help as much as I could. the gundam suggestion was harmless, man, I was only giving a suggestion. I was thinking a cartoony robot anyways, and I said gundam-type robot, meaning it resembles that kind of robot.

I know you've worked hard on this, but seriously; if I didn't give a crap about this game, why would I post a rant? You've taken my post in a completely different perspective than I thought you would.

Honestly, I just put myself in the position of making this game, and see what I would do to make it better.

Sorry I said some stuff that other people have said before, but seriously, why do you care so much about that? If you see the same thing twice, just disregard it. I'll understand if you don't reply to that suggestion.


If my post really pissed you off that much, and I had known it would beforehand, I wouldn't even have bothered. My mistake entirely.


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DB PROgrammer
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Posted: 6th Mar 2008 04:49 Edited at: 6th Mar 2008 04:50
And now a timer based movement tutorial.

First we need to set a base framerate.(Pick whatever you think you need, I would say 60)

This goes somewhere before the main loop...

Global FrameRate as Integer : FrameRate=60
Global CurrentRate as Integer
Global MovementMultiplier as Float

Now before you movement commands...

CurrentRate=Timer()
MovementMultiplier=CurrentRate/FrameRate


Now in your movement commands say you base speed if you where running at 60fps was 6

if upkey()=1
move object 1,6*MovementMultiplier
endif


Ect, ect, ect...

I hope you understood this, don't know how good I am at explaining.


I'm Pro grammer.
C0wbox
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Posted: 6th Mar 2008 16:32
@ the_rami
Hehe

I'll take your advice though.

@ Xenocythe
Yeh, sorry about some of the things I said, I felt kinda bad today.

I understand you were just trying to help.

@ DB PROgrammer
Well, I understood the concept (I think) but whether I can implement it, I'm not sure.

I'd also need to bare in mind that the player moves 0.1 when walking, because everything was scaled by 10% to overcome the Sparky's collision DLL bug.

I'll focus on some other things for a while, then have a look at this post again in the future, so thanks anyway.

Ortu
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Posted: 7th Mar 2008 02:52
Timer Based Basics:

everything should move at a fixed rate, regardless of performance. This means that when performance drops you need to compare how much time has elapsed since the last time the program reached this point to how much time would normal have passed. When performance drops, you have to adjust the position and animation frames to match where they are supposed to be. This results in some skipping with severely low performance but most of the time it keeps things smooth.

So step one is to find out how much time has elapsed since the last positioning update. set a variable or array slot equal to timer() at the end of the control segment. at the start of the control segment compare the current timer() to the saved last timer(), the difference is the elapsed time.

now use the basic speed equations: speed=distance/time therefore distance=speed*time. your speed should be fixed and sets the basic rate at which the character moves say 1 unit per 50ms... this depends largely on the scale you are using for your map.

now we put it all together: distancemoved=(1/50)*elapsedtime : position=position+distancemoved

heres an example, done in DBC but should be workable in Pro



Bizar Guy
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Posted: 7th Mar 2008 16:03
I'll post some timer code later if I have time, but so you know, you really aren't getting many repeated suggestions.

And try to take some of the comments lighter. I do the same thing, and feel really stupid afterwards. And most people have trouble being very specific with their criticism and so sometimes come out as offencive, so you have to try and accept it. I know why if bothers you, but try to work on that. I need to do it to, but just pointing it out so you know.

Also, I can give you a run through to make a character with knee joints and arm joints and all if you want. It's fairly simple once you understand to joint and rotation commands. I can e-mail you that and timer code if you'd like.


BlockVerse-> Old School Beta Demo-> Dream-> Old School-> Guitar Platformer
C0wbox
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Posted: 7th Mar 2008 19:17
@ Ortu
Thanks man, I'll take a look.

@ Bizar Guy
I'm familiar with how to animate, I did it in Gamespace light until I realised it was really bad and continually broke my models. (It also had poly limits.) - I just can't animate in Milkshape because I haven't had the time to learn it yet. (Or to learn exactly how it is done.)

C0wbox
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Posted: 9th Mar 2008 16:07
Version 0.05 (09/03 build)

This update includes the following:
1. Some more map
2. Rerecorded commentary
3. Boxes that actually feel like they are boxes and not cardboard
4. An options menu where you can change the mouse sensativity
5. A change in mouse movement between when you are holding the gun and when you aren't: When you aren't holding it, you can look in any direction despite which way the camera is facing, but when you are holding the gun, it automatically rotates the player to face the direction the camera is.
6. A few more textures, such as the box textures (says Joe)

As usual, Vision can be downloaded from here:
Vision 0.05.zip

Screenshot:

A screenshot of the last section.

Dr Manette
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Posted: 9th Mar 2008 18:46
This version is so much more fun than the old training course was. I think it's mainly because the crates are more realistic and that last section where you had to use the crates was challenging. Not too challenging, but enough to make it fun.

One problem I noticed is that putting one crate on top of another makes them very slippery. The top box literally slide right off.

C0wbox
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Posted: 9th Mar 2008 19:07 Edited at: 9th Mar 2008 19:07
@ Dr Manette
Good good, glad to hear you prefered it.

Yeh the slidy boxes are a pain aren't they.

Originally the 2nd to last challenge was going to require you to stack 2 crates on top of each other then get up to the ledge but noooo, Dark Physics decided to make them slide around. So I changed it to make it how it is.

Does anyone have any idea how to prevent this? I already have all the friction and bounceyness etc. set for how I need it to be in the game so I don't know what I can do to prevent them sliding off each other.

Pet A Mizzle
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Posted: 9th Mar 2008 19:44
Downloading will test!

~Petamizzle.
Pet A Mizzle
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Posted: 9th Mar 2008 20:05
I saw a glitch on the last level I Agrro'ed the monster on the higher up platform and it walked on air and was killing me o.o I got my energy to 0 but nothing happened aswell.

~Petamizzle.
C0wbox
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Posted: 9th Mar 2008 20:23
@ Pet A Mizzle
The drones don't have legs. So it did not walk on the air, it merely floated above you. (This is of no concern as they float anyway.)

I have also not programmed it to do anything to you because then some people might not be able to complete the training centre. (It will obviously disable you in the real thing.)

Pet A Mizzle
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Posted: 9th Mar 2008 20:38
Oh okay, but when it's above you I couldn't kill it. xD

~Petamizzle.
C0wbox
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Posted: 10th Mar 2008 21:00 Edited at: 10th Mar 2008 21:00
Just to settle the topic of my bad AI:
The enemy drones have only 2 dimensional AI: X and Z
To make it 3 dimensional I'd have to have an extra variable and some constant downward fallingness, which requires more power and more chance for me to screw up the coding of the AI.

So either you have some relatively basic and quick AI. Or you have some complicated AI which is likely to look worse and not work as well.

Dr Manette
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Posted: 10th Mar 2008 21:24
For the collision, you're going to want to check each drone for collision, not set them as a group.

C0wbox
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Posted: 10th Mar 2008 22:59
What collision are you refering to?:
The collision between the drones and the map? Or the drones and the attraction sphere around the player?

Dr Manette
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Posted: 11th Mar 2008 02:50
Between the drones and the player's sphere. If you check each drone seperately you can store their numbers.

Pet A Mizzle
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Posted: 11th Mar 2008 03:06
Ohh Okay, makes sense.

~Petamizzle.
C0wbox
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Posted: 11th Mar 2008 10:24
@ Dr Manette
Well, yeh it sounds like you should be able to do that, but how do I check their collisions with the sphere individually without drasticly slowing the program down?

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