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Work in Progress / Vision

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C0wbox
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Posted: 20th Jun 2008 20:06
@ White Fang 12
Finally, the first post in like 3 days. (not by me or Joe)

We finally squeezed out the 300th one. xD

(Oh and thanks for re-joining us as a fan, I thought you left when I started ranting and flaming at people on about page 3.)

Blobby 101
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Posted: 20th Jun 2008 23:50
it's looking, good - GLaD your still working on it

Your signature has been erased by a mod - 340 KB is a little big don't you think?
tha_rami
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Posted: 20th Jun 2008 23:54
Well, you never lost my interest, c0wbox, so don't worry. I'm here and watching .


A mod has been erased by your signature because it was larger than 600x120
C0wbox
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Posted: 21st Jun 2008 00:51
@ blobby 101 & tha_rami

Good, good, I'm GLaD (I really should stop using that word) you're both here.

Now for everyone else, lol. - I will get everyone back... somehow...

jason p sage
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Location: Ellington, CT USA
Posted: 21st Jun 2008 01:34
I LOVE the New Screen Shots and Love that I was summoned from the depths of C++ API's and other lands in GeekDom!

I Think those shots look great! Now - as any typical "fanboy" should imaturely scream: MOVIE MOVIE MOVIE! Or... (to incite yet more stress) Demo Demo Demo!

Seriously - this is looking great - I've only been less "seen" lately because I am working really hard on some commercial stuff that requires my full attention - ALOT! Thats All! Glad you're still pounding out VISION! Great Work.. and keep it up!

(I like the "computer panels" with people sitting there doing their thing.. looks cool!)

RedFlames
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Location: Germania
Posted: 21st Jun 2008 01:38
Hey here another fan who's been silently reading since page 1
and i love it too
i just now found the little easteregg before the plsma ignition (took me half an hour, but i only used 1 box )
and if i dint say that yet: i just love everything about this game xD


DB PROgrammer
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Posted: 21st Jun 2008 02:25
I'm still here! I am at my grandparents though so I can't test it right now(133 mhz computer) The screenshots look good though!


I'm Pro grammer.
C0wbox
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Posted: 21st Jun 2008 03:54 Edited at: 21st Jun 2008 03:55


@ jason p sage
I would say I'm GLaD you still like Vision, but I say that too often to everyone, so I will say:
It pleases me you're still a fan. xD

@ RedFlames
When I read your post my face split open in a smile. Hehe, you shouldn't have hidden all this time. But nevertheless, I'm happy we have yet another fan.

And I'm GLaD the easteregg proved a sufficient challenge although originally you were supposed to use the ladder to jump off and into the vent.

@ DB PROgrammer
Yeh Joe and I didn't think you'd really left, we just wondered where you'd gone when you hadn't posted on Pro Racer in a while, nor this WIP. (And lol @ the 133 mhz PC.)

Good to hear the screenshots are still in everyones favour.

Mr Z
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Posted: 23rd Jun 2008 15:02 Edited at: 23rd Jun 2008 15:05
Hey, just discovered you had done more work, so I downloaded it. It seems to becoming better and better. But I found a bug (donĀ“t know if you are aware of it or not, so I just post to be on the safe side).

What I did was doing the training thing, during which I at a point for some reason became transparent, and when I finished it and started a new game, I was still transperant and still holding the laser gun. Image:



Other then that, it is very nice (but some kind of aiming system would be appriciated, because at the moment, I have to guess where to fire and adjust after the misses). Keep up the good work .

Darkness, you haunt me. If I give in, I would be an monster beyond imagining. Light, you guide me. Thanks to you, I see past the nothingness. Life, I choose to live in the light.

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C0wbox
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Posted: 23rd Jun 2008 15:44
@ Mr Z
Yeh don't worry, that is a well known bug.
The robot goes transparent so you can see infront of it when you've got the gun out. But the gun should be taken off you when you click new game. (I haven't yet done this) xD

Also there will be a crosshair eventually, I just need to put something to shoot in the game first. Don't worry, you get the gun in sector G which is the next level, so there should be plenty of action from here onwards.

Mr Z
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Posted: 24th Jun 2008 13:34
Sounds good .

Darkness, you haunt me. If I give in, I would be an monster beyond imagining. Light, you guide me. Thanks to you, I see past the nothingness. Life, I choose to live in the light.
Lukas W
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Posted: 24th Jun 2008 23:52 Edited at: 24th Jun 2008 23:54
The amazing holomap looks amazing.

Do you have a background for the game title? I mean why did you decide to name it "Vision"?
Is it because in the game you are controlling a robot who can process images through a high speed camera and visualize it to the player?

I am not trying to put down your choice of name or your game. It is just curiosity, because I like the game.

Edit:
I read the first post again (you said "skip this part" so I skipped it the first time). It explained everything to me.

I allways afraided from a clowns. aww..
C0wbox
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Posted: 25th Jun 2008 00:53
@ Lukas W
Hehe, yeh, I was about to direct you there when I read the last line.

I am also GLaD you amazingly liked the amazing holomap. xD

Blobby 101
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Posted: 25th Jun 2008 09:15
you know what, i think you should put the fish in somewhere, even if it's just like, a photo hanging on a wall, with "Building the Project Vision Training Center" on it

C0wbox
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Posted: 25th Jun 2008 15:22 Edited at: 25th Jun 2008 15:22
@ blobby 101
That is actually a very good idea.

I was thinking about including it in an easter egg (of which there will be plenty) but your way seems more subtle & cooler.

A tribute to the fish when I went back to that original map using a later version of the engine:

Tribute to the fish.

(And 2 other amuzing pictures just because I took them:

Tribute to the egg.


Forsight.)

Mr Z
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Posted: 26th Jun 2008 01:31
That easter egg was funny. The most egg-like easter egg I have ever seen... in games.

Darkness, you haunt me. If I give in, I would be an monster beyond imagining. Light, you guide me. Thanks to you, I see past the nothingness. Life, I choose to live in the light.
C0wbox
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Posted: 3rd Jul 2008 20:52
Sit. rep.
I thought due to the fact Vision was slipping down the WIP board and I haven't posted in a while I'd give a situation report on what's been going on, what's happening and what is to come.

What has happened
There has been a lack of posting on the Vision WIP because for a while,
1. Joe and I started to learn C++ (and in our best attempts to stay motivated and learning it, we didn't want to re-consider that we had Vision to work on)
2. Then Joe had to go to a university conference or something. <To be confirmed with Joe>
3. During the time Joe was absent I continued to work on modeling the G Labs (which are coming along nicely (more on them later)) so it wasn't a complete waste of time.
4. I also attempted again to get the water working (in some fashion) by replacing the plain, that is positioned infront of the camera when it is underwater, with a very small water shaded plain. - However due to the fact that I'm not getting any help on my questions about why the culling screws up when using more than one camera, I abandoned it for a 3rd time and went on to improve the water's cartoony effect as it stands by adding fog and actually ensuring the plain infront of the camera comes down in all levels (not just the training centre).

What is happening
Currently I'm progressing with modeling the G Labs, preparing for the point where you will find the first gun (dropped by a plasma burned security gaurd/guard (I can never remember how to spell that)

What will be happening
1. Firstly, when I say will I mean might because the first thing that I might do is enter the nVidia competition as I have Dark Physics and I'm not even going to get close to a prize if I don't try. The only things stopping me from entering is the fact that I've managed to remotivate myself onto Vision (which rarely happens, so its good) and I wouldn't know what to enter with. (E.G. I can't do fluids because I have not PHSX card and I can't do the Ćŗber demo for that reason, so I'm left with only the simple thing and nothing imaginative comes to mind when I think of doing something interesting with rigid bodies or soft bodies.)
2. Secondly I'd like to take this oppertunity to tell you all I will be gone (to Scotland) from the: 24/07/08 to the 17/08/08
So, as much as I'd love to be able to continue working on Vision on my new laptop that comes soon, I won't be able to post and probably won't even be able to accurately test Vision because it has a really bad integrated GFX chip as opposed to a GFX card.

Right, now that's all sorted, I'd like to address the 2 main problems Vision faces at the moment which are impeding my progress somewhat:
1. The water using 2 cameras is screwing up the culling of the level meaning when in water the level doesn't refresh what was previously culled out and when looking at the map from the wrong angles it screws up still.
2. The timer based movement that took me so long to work out is having some problems in the respect that I can't get it to work for jumping, so when you press space, the movement on a slower PC is speeded to compensate the lag but the jumping stays at the same speed meaning you're able to jump about 5 metres in a given direction. (Which somewhat impedes how the game functions...) xD
Also, when I thought I'd fixed the problem by making the increments the robot jumps by multiplied by the same amount the "movement multiplier" makes everything else faster with, it just meant the robot jumped stupidly high (through the ceiling) and fell stupidly far (throught the floor). :S

If anyone can guide me or offer advice on either of these 2 problems I'll be more than happy to put up more information on them and see what can be fixed.

Mr Z
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Posted: 4th Jul 2008 22:55
I do not know how to solve those 2 problems, I just want to say that IĀ“m still interested in the project, and want it to be completed.

Darkness, you haunt me. If I give in, I would be an monster beyond imagining. Light, you guide me. Thanks to you, I see past the nothingness. Life, I choose to live in the light.
C0wbox
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Posted: 4th Jul 2008 23:42 Edited at: 5th Jul 2008 00:19
@ Mr Z
Well, you're about the only one left mate. Hehe, everyone else has bummed off, or is on holiday or SOMETHING...

:S

Oh well, I will complete it. - It's far enough in that I can and know how, and I'm progressing well on it.

@ All

Oh and I tried making a trailer using Hypercam 2, but because it sucks and makes .AVIs the whole trailer (which was 3 minutes 15 long) is 680mb.

So... no trailer until I get a very good AVI compressor/MPEG converter (or whatever) or a better recording program. (I would use fraps, but you only get 30 seconds, which is no good.)

Mr Kohlenstoff
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Posted: 5th Jul 2008 01:55
You could import the video into windows movie maker and export is as mpg with (much better) compression.
By the way, I also want the game to get finished. Good luck.
(Concering the timerbased movement, you might try another technique and just update all gameplay-relevant parts just ~60 times a second, independent of the framerate. That's what I do in Dangerground and it works pretty well (as long as the framerate is higher than 60, otherwise the game slows down anyway, so it wouldn't help you, in case you wanted to "protect" slower PCs from a slowly running game..))

DB PROgrammer
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Posted: 5th Jul 2008 02:17
Quote: "or is on holiday or SOMETHING..."


4th of July! BTW I do want to see this game completed. Also if you could post the jumping code I might be able to help make it timer based although i'm very low on extra time latly.


I'm Pro grammer.
C0wbox
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Posted: 5th Jul 2008 04:25 Edited at: 5th Jul 2008 04:26
@ Mr Kohlenstoff
Well even if I imported into WMM, it surely wouldn't compress 680mb to anything useable?

@ DB PROgrammer
4th of July, hmm, I know it is important for something...
Isn't it the American Independence Day or something? (I wouldn't know, I'm British.)

And I'll post the .dba for the collision source... see if you can spot what I should be multiplying by the variable:
MM#

@ All
I just thought seeing as I made an amazing achievement in Deled LITE by discovering where the UV functionality is in the program, I'd post a screenshot of the fact that the maps are now able to be much higher quality with far less polygons.


Showing the amazing signs that will now be around levels (and also in that picture, but due to JPG quality and the fact I scaled it you can't see it, there are two computer panels on the side of that plasma pipe with displays that don't just look like a mesh of coloured squares.

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C0wbox
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Posted: 5th Jul 2008 04:28 Edited at: 5th Jul 2008 04:30
<--- Double post so I could show off the UV quality on those computer panels properly --->


The picture showing off the amazing UV mapping on the consoles, also a nicer grill/grate texture for the front of air vents and the amazing geometry of the big pipe.

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hookkshot
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Posted: 5th Jul 2008 08:54
Ok this is amazing work i wish my game had the quality of this game but you have had more projects then me so you prob have alot more experience. I like your game style though and i would love to see this when its finished i reckon you could prob sell it. id buy it.

keep up the great work

[href]www.splitsecondgames.com[/href]
Silent Shade Download the latest Beta
Mr Kohlenstoff
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Posted: 5th Jul 2008 12:11
Quote: "Well even if I imported into WMM, it surely wouldn't compress 680mb to anything useable?"


You could try it.. 680 mb for two minutes sounds like it's an completely uncompressed avi which contains uncompressed bitmaps for each frame. I'm sure WMM would be able to compress it down to 50mb or so without to much loss of quality.. so try it out!

C0wbox
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Posted: 5th Jul 2008 14:34
@ hookkshot
Thanks man, I'm GLaD you agree that I could sell it, because I fully intend to. And yeh, there have been over 4.6 gigabytes of failed and finished projects to get me to the stage Vision is at.

@ Mr Kohlenstoff
Well, I'll try it and maybe host it somewhere for everyone to view, but in the meantime, I'm going fullsteam on this UV mapping stuff to make the levels really look good now.

C0wbox
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Posted: 10th Jul 2008 18:47 Edited at: 10th Jul 2008 18:48
Version 0.15 (10/07 build)

This update features the following improvements:
1. G Labs.
2. Better texturing, in that the maps are now using UV support.
3. Reduced map size (Thus reduced game size) Due to the fact every box now only has 6 polygons as opposed to 30.
4. GPS for G Labs.
5. Added the gun, but sadly no enemies yet. (Because I have to design them as this time they aren't going to be laim cleanup drones.)
6. An entertaining logo screen with a VERY large reference to Valve. (I just thought I'd do this for a laugh, but don't worry it won't stay this way.)
7. Fixed some problems with the intro, in that the camera didn't go all the way up to the operators screen in the last scene and in the 2nd scene you could see off the edge of the map near the start.
8. Added new textures for certain things because Joe has somehow magically become amazing at creating them... xD
9. Added underwater fog, just to make the game look that bit nicer.
10. Fixed a problem that meant I could either have it so it splashed when the robot entered water OR NPCs followed you. (And in doing that I fixed a bug which meant you could get NPCs stuck in walls.)
11. I also made it so if you do the training centre and finish with your gun out, it doesn't stay out in the main game.

Extra info:
As well as all this, G Labs also includes a room that is actually mildly challenging to traverse (as opposed to the boring, "Walk-down-a-corridor" gameplay previously seen.)
G Labs also has its own easter egg. Please tell me if you find it, I think I hid it very well.

I was trying out Media Fire and eSnips for uploading the new version of Vision but they both suck and I don't want to use Homestead because I need the room for the pictures and other files so I decided to use FileFront to upload it and you can now download the game from here:
Vision 0.15.zip

Screenshots:

A sample of the new textures Joe made. (Being used on the intro.)


The end of G Labs. (Where you get a gun off a dead security guard/gaurd.)


Some modeling and UV mapping not seen in the rest of the versions of Vision.


G Labs' destruction.


The room with a slight challenge to it.

Mr Z
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Posted: 10th Jul 2008 19:24
Downloading .

There is no greater virtue, then the ability to face oneself.
Joeeigel
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Posted: 10th Jul 2008 21:19 Edited at: 10th Jul 2008 21:24
That easter egg was a huge success.
It was hard to overstate my statisfaction when I found it.
Soharix.
We hide eggs, becuase, we can.
For the fun, of all of us.
Except the ones who are dead.
But there's no sense crying over found eggs.
You just keep on trying 'till you run out of game.
And the egg hunt gets done.
And you find a neat gun.
From the guard who is still dead.

I'm not even angry.
I'm being so sincere right now.
Even though you hid an egg, and killed me.

Go 'head and egg me.
I think I prefer to play the game.
maybe you'll find someone else to help you.
maybe Sleekware...
THAT WAS A JOKE, HA HA, FAT CHANCE.

And after that portal referance, With out any help it took me 1 hour and 20 minutes to find that easter egg. It's not hard, It's just I was over thinking the whole thing.

C0wbox
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Posted: 11th Jul 2008 15:18
@ Mr Z
Me and Joe were both wondering how that download is going?

I don't think you're allowed to download things from FileFront for more than 10 hours... :S

White Fang 12
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Posted: 11th Jul 2008 17:01
The game is great sorry about what happened to your eye though also i must stink at finding eggs i look for things that are hard to reach and go there just to find that leads where im going

I'm a noob help will be accepted
Joeeigel
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Posted: 11th Jul 2008 17:26
Have you accualy seen the Valve "logo" White? If not, you probably wouldn't get the reference.

Yeah, I think the same way as you with the easter eggs too, developers hide them, we think they hide them im stupid places, but in reality, they don't.

Don't over think it, it's along the path you are ment to take to complete sector G (not down any extra corridors etc.) But it is still hidden. Dont over think and you will eventualy find it.

White Fang 12
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Posted: 11th Jul 2008 20:39
I've seen the valve logo and looking back at my comment it was stupid

I'm a noob help will be accepted
Mr Z
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Posted: 11th Jul 2008 22:59
Quote: "@ Mr Z
Me and Joe were both wondering how that download is going?

I don't think you're allowed to download things from FileFront for more than 10 hours... :S"


Ahhh, sorry, it was done a LONG time ago. I was at my girlfriends placed, and just forgot to post again.

It was a nice game, but it was a bit empty (not that much action). But have great potensial, and IĀ“m looking forward for more information .

There is no greater virtue, then the ability to face oneself.
C0wbox
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Posted: 12th Jul 2008 00:40
@ Mr Z
Well you'll be pleased to know that I intend to release version 0.16 tonight (UK time 22:40, 1:20 left) so keep your eyes peeled, and you will see action.

C0wbox
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Posted: 12th Jul 2008 03:30 Edited at: 12th Jul 2008 04:43
Version 0.16 (12/07 build)

I know I didn't do it in in 1 hour and 20 minutes, but its still in rough proximity to, what is now, last night. So here is version 0.16 anyway, it should be a lot more fun than the last 16 versions, so please enjoy and alert me to any bugs you find however please exclude the following bug that I already know of:
The GPS arrow doesn't work properly on the 4th map.

This update features the following improvements:
1. Fixed a problem with G Labs where you could randomly fall through the floor at a certain point in the level.
2. Fixed a missing texture.
3. Fixed not being able to see yourself with the gun out underwater.
4. Changed the logo at the start to look more like the Valve logo.
5. Started the F. Labs.
6. Added Infiltrators that don't shoot yet, but will walk up to you very threatenningly! (They will shoot eventually.)
7. Added an enemy called Flabby Joe with 500 health, so watch out when you're fighting him.
8. Added an interesting and laughable effect when you kill an enemy or when you die. (Yes you can die now! )
9. Tidied code.
10. Fixed a bug with dead NPCs that meant their collision boxes remained behind after their death.
An extra piece of info though: Flabby Joe will eventually be bigger, because he is meant to be a boss-type enemy. So I respect the fact he looks very small and weedy at the moment.

And we're adding new textures all the time so no biggy there.

Also a word of advice when attempting to play the game through all the way, due to the fact I think I'm doing something wrong when changing levels, the game gets clogged the more maps you play so I suggest if you wish to experience the fighting in map 4, restart the game when you get there and simply press "4" on your keyboard when you get to the main menu.

You can now download the game from FileFront:
Vision 0.16.zip

Screenshots:

Me running from some threatening Infiltrators.


After killing the Infiltrators.


After killing the Infiltrators and making their torsos dynamic too.


After getting killed by Flabby Joe.


After getting killed by an Infiltrator.

Mr Z
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Posted: 12th Jul 2008 19:47
Ok, I have tested it. Good job. Just waiting for that aiming system, it feels ocward having to "guess" where to shoot . The boss was actually quite easy . But other then that, well done.

There is no greater virtue, then the ability to face oneself.
C0wbox
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Posted: 12th Jul 2008 20:20
@ Mr Z
Yeh the aiming system is at a very early stage at the moment.

It should have a crosshair by version 0.17 and I'm going to shorten the laser's range to make the enemies harder to kill.



MonoCoder
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Posted: 12th Jul 2008 20:42 Edited at: 12th Jul 2008 20:57
Things an' qualms (whether mentioned already or not):

Spinning the camera at pretty much any speed allows me to see excluded objects suddenly pop-up on screen in an ugly fashion.

The arrow would be better locked at the top of the screen, so the view isn't obscured by it when I try to look below me.

The camera shouldn't go beneath the player when looking up. Perhaps slide it along the y-axis in sync with the x-angle.

Since the cursor can't be seen, is it necessary to constantly reposition it in the center? Getting to this page to critique the game with it running was more irritating than need be.

NPC's should stop walking when they hit something. I also managed to push them through objects. Also, shouldn't they be somewhat paniced by the plasma-whatever announcement?

Game speed fluctuates a lot, slowing to a crawl then going berzerk.

The blue boxes just don't act naturally when you interact with them.

The explosion effect is a bit cheap, and the post-explode map looks more like everything just felt apart.

When jumping on a slope, the player should probably have it's x-speed adjusted for the normal of the slope. Trying to run and jump up a slope seemingly cancels out the jump.

Climbing ladders is insufferable.

Controls as a whole feel very loose.

The room involving lots of crates, going through crates, walking on suspended pipes, etc.- you enter it through the top of a wall- is on the right track for platforming sections. Using bits of scene to create things like this is good.


More to come.

Give me an ounce of Puyo, good apothecary, to sweeten my imagination.
C0wbox
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Posted: 12th Jul 2008 21:21 Edited at: 12th Jul 2008 21:23
@ MonoCoder and anyone with the concerns/bug-reports listed above^^^
Woh, um, ok, I'm not really sure how many of those I'm going to be resolved, but I'll have a look through them:

Quote: "Spinning the camera at pretty much any speed allows me to see excluded objects suddenly pop-up on screen in an ugly fashion."

I can't say I know how to solve this, there seems to be very little help on the culling system by Lost In Thought and no one is paying attention to this WIP to help me with that.

Quote: "The arrow would be better locked at the top of the screen, so the view isn't obscured by it when I try to look below me."

How exactly would one lock it to the top of the screen when it is in 3D space? (There needs to be a disable Y depth command as well as the Z depth one.)

Quote: "The camera shouldn't go beneath the player when looking up. Perhaps slide it along the y-axis in sync with the x-angle."

I'm not sure I really know what you mean with that one^ :S

Quote: "Since the cursor can't be seen, is it necessary to constantly reposition it in the center? Getting to this page to critique the game with it running was more irritating than need be."

Yeh it didn't used to be centered, but I said I'd put it in because people playing with 2 monitors end up clicking off the game in their 2nd monitor instead of firing in the game.

Quote: "NPC's should stop walking when they hit something. I also managed to push them through objects. Also, shouldn't they be somewhat paniced by the plasma-whatever announcement?"

As you might imagine, due to the nature of the AI in Vision I have no idea how to actually program it properly. Do you have any suggestions as to how to get an NPC to detect if it's not going anywhere, how to ensure they don't go inside you and the map or how to make 5 objects look paniced?

Quote: "Game speed fluctuates a lot, slowing to a crawl then going berzerk."

This is due to the fact that the timer based movement, of which I recieved limited help with, doesn't work. No one is continually updating me with what I'm doing wrong because there seems to be a lack of activity among the forums.

Quote: "The blue boxes just don't act naturally when you interact with them. "

What can I say... Dark Physics is the-crap. I wouldn't trust it to make an object react physically if my life depended on it. I'm simply using a non-bouncey material on a dynamic rigid body box. What do you suggest with this one?

Quote: "The explosion effect is a bit cheap, and the post-explode map looks more like everything just felt apart."

The explosion effect is cheap because it isn't complete. It's just basically to show you it would happen there. Blobby was going to do us a cutscene, but we decided against it because the maps have changed and it would be a fairly large video. To all: how would anyone reading this do a generic map explosion in a 3D game?

Quote: "When jumping on a slope, the player should probably have it's x-speed adjusted for the normal of the slope. Trying to run and jump up a slope seemingly cancels out the jump."

Again, I'm not really sure what the issue is with this. The player is simply allowed to jump if he is on a surface. With anymore limiting collision code the game engine would be about as buggy as Battlefield 2's collision engine.

Quote: "Climbing ladders is insufferable."

You aren't actually supposed to be able to climb ladders, but seeing as they pop up everywhere, I will include an invisible entity to allow you to climb up in those areas where ladders are.

Quote: "Controls as a whole feel very loose."

This has been said before, I still don't know what you mean. How can a control be loose? Surely if you want to go forward, you press forward, and you go forward, then the controls work perfectly. :S

---===---

Nevertheless, thank you for your input here Monocoder, and thank you for addressing some of the concerns that other users may be hiding from me. If you or anyone reading this has any suggestions on the solutions to some of these, please tell me because I'm fed up of bugs that I can't fix.

jason p sage
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Posted: 12th Jul 2008 21:40
Quote: "and no one is paying attention to this WIP to help me with that."


LOL - Yes I am! What's up? Things popping in to Late? How'd ya implement it? Cube? Box? Sphere? Also - that hardcoded 0.5 or whatever it is.. that is has a dramatic impact on the "tolerance" of when an item is considered on screen. Its the percentage of the "cull bounding" shape for the object. I recommend setting it to 1 or 1.5 or something to give it a little fluff.

Also - I use the box bounding style - I know its a bit more processing - (more if-then checks per "thing" to see if "thing" in frustrum... but there are ways to counter this with something akin to "quadtree and octtree" I think Quad will work fine and I could show you a simplified example of this technique - a mini how to of how to implement it if you like. It's especially useful for static objects that don't move... trees, poles, light fixtures, building "segments" like walls etc.

For dynamic stuff - you can do that too - but not for individual limbs.. best dfor "fixed sized" things - or force the bounding boax to envelope the moving parts to get desired effect!

--Jason

C0wbox
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Posted: 12th Jul 2008 21:55
@ jason p sage
You make it sound like I should know how culling works. :S - I don't, I'm just using the culling system directed to me by Alquerian, who is now inactive.

All I know is that it's a frustum culling system, and its a port by Lost In Thought from Mark Morley's version.

I will post you the whole .dba if you need it. I don't understand how any of it works nor how to change anything if it goes wrong. (About the only thing I could change is what object's limbs it is culling (object 7, the map).)

Please help me, and don't hesitate to ask for anything you need if its going to help me. (E.G. I'd post all my source files if you thought it would help.)

MonoCoder
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Posted: 12th Jul 2008 22:04 Edited at: 12th Jul 2008 22:07
Locking the arrow object might work, but I don't know. You might simply need to offset it from the camera rather than the player, though it's up to you to make that work right.

When I tilt the camera to look up, all I can see is the underside of the player. If you move the camera's centre/origin above the player when the camera's angle is like this, he won't be obscuring the view, because I'd be looking from above his head.

Make an option for fixing or not fixing the mouse. Or, an in-game button/keypress that will toggle this.

I suppose you could check to see if an NPC's position has changed. If they're bumping into something, chances are the position won't change. Then, just switch the animation.

For panicking, perhaps have them run around in circles, on random paths, along a path to some emergency meeting point, etc.

Try wrecking the place a bit more. More fallen things, burnt textures, objects actually destroyed rather than just toppled or moved around, more caved-in earth bits (like that elevator blocked with earth), holes in roof, piles of rubble, exagerated damage around the explosion's origin.

The player seems to simply run, the camera is very sharp. Introduce some acceleration and smoothing. For example, as oppose to the player simply dashing off, he instead picks up speed: first idle, then walking; jogging; then running. Not too slow a progression, but not as fast as it currently is. This allows a bit more precision and less "cheap death/falling of platform edge" moments where the player simply wants to take a step but instead lunges over the edge.

As for the others, that's for you to work out, but they are definite flaws. You can't simply blame the messenger and act as if they're not there. Persist in getting answers to these from the people who know them, but it's beyond my abilities if you can't.

Give me an ounce of Puyo, good apothecary, to sweeten my imagination.
jason p sage
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Posted: 12th Jul 2008 22:11
I'd rather teach ya HOW to fish because you this project is a testament to your ability to grab an idea and run with it.

LIT and myself have discussed this port - he obviously worked with it alot - as he wrote the port and I ported it to DarkGDK - and there are a couple line of code in it him and I were like - dunno - it works though - but now that I'm getting more into DX natively - I think I almost understand those lines LOL....

In short - it does this: For Objects and Limbs - it makes a collision box like Sparky has - its either a sphere (based on the center of your object - and the size is calculated, there is cube - same as cube - more or less, then there is box that is a bit more "dead on". These are just "glass boxes" that go around your culled things...limbs or otherwise. (Like a Fancy collector's porcelein doll in a glass show case) The frustrum "magic" code basically asks DX what's the dimensions for the frustrum (viewable area in 3d space) and where in 3d Space is it looking. Think of the frustrum as that squarish "cone" that starts at your eyeball and goes "range" distance away with a size of FOV value in degrees...

Doesn't even matter... in short - if the glass box is in the "cone" (frustrum) then show it, otherwise hide it. Period.

It's that simple. The part that is a pain - is limbs. Not the frustrum checking as much as making them "usable" for the frustrum stuff... In other words making a bounding "glass box" around a complete object is pretty easy using DB commands, oject width, object height object depth, object collision center, however for limbs another trick is used. LIT takes the mesh from each limb, and makes an object of it, then does the traditional method, but the "size data" is stored while the "temp object" gets blasted so he can make the next limb ready to go.

So the arrays that LIT makes are the positions and sizes (numeric values) that he compares against the "frustrum area" to see if the object is "in frustrum or not... that's it - and he shows/hides accordingly.

I Personally prefer to exclude objects if they aren't in frustrum, and excludeoff if they are in frustrum, THEN I check the limbs - and only use show/hide for limbs (after I know the root object exclude is off) because you can't exclude individual limbs - you can only hide/show them.

I need the source code that you set up your objects for frustrum culling, and the frsutrum culling code so I can see what "cut" of LIT's work you have, and how you "use it" ... also the main loop call to it - I don't want/need to see whole game - just the frutrum code, setup, and loop usage - (where main loop invokes it)

I'll discuss quad/oct tree jargon later

C0wbox
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Posted: 12th Jul 2008 23:10
@ MonoCoder
Alright, thanks again, I'll have a look into them and see what improvements I can make, and what I still need help with.

@ jason p sage
Ok, I kind of understand how the culling system works, but don't understand any of the technical jargon. Nevertheless, I've put together a pack with the culling port I'm using and the before and in main-loop code. (This pack is attatched.)

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jason p sage
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Posted: 12th Jul 2008 23:49
You have this:


...in the main loop. How slow is it if you drop the "cull every five thing? That would solve the problem in a hurry.

Perhaps instead (no counter, no every 5th frame stuff.:


If this solves the problem of display - great. If it incurs a speed penalty...then you are ready for quad tree / oct treee considerations to effectively try and balance this conundrum.



C0wbox
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Posted: 13th Jul 2008 01:04
@ jason p sage
Well, I've got to hand it to you, that was a simpler solution to the problem than I imagined it would have been. Because, it worked perfectly and there wasn't (in my opinion) a significant frame rate drop. So thank you, that's one thing I can tick off Monocoder's list of bugs.

jason p sage
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Posted: 13th Jul 2008 01:17
You're very welcome. Glad I can help - I'm one of those fans of this project that watches from the distance but loves the progress and the screen shots!

Mr Z
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Posted: 14th Jul 2008 13:00
Hey c0wbox, if you want to see a good example of a third-person aiming system, take a look at the old game Outcast . It may be ugly and so, but the aiming system is very good.

There is no greater virtue, then the ability to face oneself.
C0wbox
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Posted: 14th Jul 2008 15:13
@ Mr Z
Well, I watched a gameplay video and didn't really see anything I don't see in other 3ps shooters. :S

As far as I see it the only problems with the aiming system in Vision are:
1. You can go under the player.
2. I can't get the laser pistol to actually point towards the respective middle of the screen from any angle. Thus, I can't position a crosshair properly.

I think I have solutions for both of these so, don't worry.

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