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AppGameKit Classic Chat / App Developers Group

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Hodgey
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2011 09:06
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Quote: "Not yet, I'm using some crappy space invaders / asteroids pics from google for now"

Ok, just shout when you need them which I'm sure is what you would have done anyway.

Quote: "Got the 'scrolling system working nicely, demo soon..."

Good to hear and looking forward to it.

Quote: "You change the setup file to fullscreen=1. Very simple."

I have no idea how I missed that! I play with the setup.agc all the time. Thank you DVader

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baxslash
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2011 10:59
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Attached is a very early View of the menu. It's ONLY to test the scrolling really so there's only the top level of the menu. Once I've finished the game menu system I'll make it clickable to enter a game's menu for now just tell me what you think.

How will it work?
On touch screen devices you can just run your finger over the screen to scroll through the games.
On PC's / laptops you can click and drag the mouse (that's how I'm testing it!) but I will also add some left/right buttons underneath.

On touching the game image / clicking a "select" button you'll be able to enter the menu for that game.

This menu works really well at whatever screen resolution I have tried (which is quite a few portrait and landscape variations)

Graphics
@TheSlayer, here are a few requests if that's OK?
1-Logo-Could you provide a version with a transparent background?
2-Menu Items-
-a-I could use a background image which can be stretched to suit portrait/landscape apps (perhaps a gradient effect) at 512x512
-b-I could use three buttons with a normal state and a 'pressed' state no wider than about 150 and whatever shape / design you like. I need "Scroll left", "Scroll right" and "Select"/"Play". Maybe something like the controls on a DVD player? Just an idea

What's next?
I'm building a game menu system which you can configure for your own game. I'll post updates as we go.

Hope you like what I've done so far!

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Hodgey
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2011 11:11
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Baxslash, that menu is a stroke of brilliance, absolutely amazing!

Quote: "I'm building a game menu system which you can configure for your own game. I'll post updates as we go."

I'll be eager to see it!

When programming, would it be more convinient for us to include the initials or an abbreviated name of our games into each global variables, UDTs, arrays, functions and subroutines (basically anything that has a chance of being used by another game)? An example would be instead of screen_width I would have RI_screen_width.

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baxslash
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2011 11:29
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Quote: "Baxslash, that menu is a stroke of brilliance, absolutely amazing!"

Glad you like it ...I have a few small details to add like music and some action in the background but I'm happy so far!

Quote: "When programming, would it be more convinient for us to include the initials or an abbreviated name of our games into each global variables, UDTs, arrays, functions and subroutines (basically anything that has a chance of being used by another game)? An example would be instead of screen_width I would have RI_screen_width."

Great idea Hodgey! I have a few pointers regarding everyone's code actually:
Constants / Types / Globals - must have an abreviation at the start. As Hodgey suggested, use the name of the game or something. I can catch a few but this will reduce bugs by a huge amount!

Image / Sprite numbering - Use the following method for getting unused sprite / image numbers rather than giving them your own numbering system (that way we won't have any "Sprite already exists" errors!). Use this convention for ALL numbered items such as sounds too...


That way AppGameKit will find a free item number and feed it back to you!

If I have any more thoughts I'll let you know but for now I have attached the code (I just tidied it up a bit!)

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Bursar
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2011 11:56
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I think it's also important to mention that each game MUST clean up after itself. So every image, sprite, particle, sound, music and anything else you use must be freed when your game quits and returns to the menu.

Otherwise you'll be using stacks of RAM in no time at all.
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Hodgey
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2011 11:57 Edited at: 2nd Sep 2011 11:57
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Quote: "Use the following method for getting unused sprite / image numbers rather than giving them your own numbering system"

I'm not sure on the limit for sprites (I think its in the 10,000s) but everyone should probably clean up upon exit ie delete all sprites, images, sounds, music etc so it makes room for other games. It's probably very unlikely but still, better safe than sorry.

Edit-ninja'd by Bursar

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baxslash
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2011 12:03
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Quote: "I think it's also important to mention that each game MUST clean up after itself. So every image, sprite, particle, sound, music and anything else you use must be freed when your game quits and returns to the menu."

Yes, vital!

Please make sure that your game exit code includes a full tidy up! I'll be doing this with the menu too so it will tidy up before starting the selected game... how about I make functions to do this for us? IE:


Hodgey you are just always 1 minute too late, but always on the money

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Hodgey
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2011 12:09
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Quote: "how about I make functions to do this for us?"

If you find out the maximum reference number for each item (e.g images) that AppGameKit supplies then it should be as simple as:


Quote: "Hodgey you are just always 1 minute too late, but always on the money"

I've become quite used to it, but I will warn you all, I have a growing list of those who ninja me...

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mr_d
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2011 12:26
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Quote: "Attached is a very early View of the menu. It's ONLY to test the scrolling really so there's only the top level of the menu. Once I've finished the game menu system I'll make it clickable to enter a game's menu for now just tell me what you think."

very nice - very smooth and responsive - have a penguin for the good work

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baxslash
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2011 12:39 Edited at: 2nd Sep 2011 12:39
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Quote: "very nice - very smooth and responsive - have a penguin for the good work"

Thanks mr_d! I lurv penguins

I'm going to ask for a 512x128 'banner' image for everyone's games. This will go at the top of the game menu for each game. There's no rush on this obviously, I'm using some silly ones to test right now such as this one:

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The Slayer
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2011 12:40
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Quote: "Hope you like what I've done so far!"

I do, I do!
Nice menu, baxslash!

Quote: "Graphics
@TheSlayer, here are a few requests if that's OK?
1-Logo-Could you provide a version with a transparent background?
2-Menu Items-
-a-I could use a background image which can be stretched to suit portrait/landscape apps (perhaps a gradient effect) at 512x512
-b-I could use three buttons with a normal state and a 'pressed' state no wider than about 150 and whatever shape / design you like. I need "Scroll left", "Scroll right" and "Select"/"Play". Maybe something like the controls on a DVD player? Just an idea"

1 - Yes, I'll adjust the previous image to have a transparent background. Glad you liked the image I made. I've shown it to a friend of mine, and he said that it looked kinda oldschool, which made me so happy, cuz that was the intention. Our games will be kinda oldschool too, so it'll fit well together.
2 - a) Ok, no problem. I'll make a few gradient kinda images, and you can choose which one goes best.
b) Consider it done. I'll probably make a few versions too. Uhm, don't you also need a 'hover' state for them buttons?

Quote: "Hodgey you are just always 1 minute too late"

You should set your watch two minutes earlier, maybe that'll help. Heheheh. Just kidding.
Or, you could join our Ninja clan?

@baxslash:
Maybe it would also be a good idea to make a 'link' button to our ADG site? Or isn't that possible with AppGameKit yet?

Cheers

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Hodgey
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2011 12:50
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Quote: "You should set your watch two minutes earlier, maybe that'll help. Heheheh. Just kidding.
Or, you could join our Ninja clan?"

Well considering I'm already 8+ hours ahead of most of you, you'd think I'd have an advantage. Join your ninja clan ayy well thanks for the offer but I'd rather stay as a jedi *activates lightsaber* "The force is strong with this one".

Quote: "Maybe it would also be a good idea to make a 'link' button to our ADG site? Or isn't that possible with AppGameKit yet?"

It's possible with Tier2 but not with Tier1, currently. But I think if the project is ready for launch and http commands aren't in sight yet then we can always code them using tier 2 when we compile the project natively using each sdk.

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baxslash
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2011 12:51 Edited at: 2nd Sep 2011 12:52
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Quote: "don't you also need a 'hover' state for them buttons?"

...yeah, probably a good idea for mouse based devices.

Quote: "Or, you could join our Ninja clan?"

Dude, that's supposed to be top secret... as are the time-travel watches... oh wait, you didn't mention those did you?

Quote: "Maybe it would also be a good idea to make a 'link' button to our ADG site? Or isn't that possible with AppGameKit yet?"

Not possible yet, unless you want to make a new one using the latest logo anyway?

EDIT: Damn, ninja'd anyway... yes we could code natively...

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The Slayer
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2011 12:59
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Quote: "Join your ninja clan ayy well thanks for the offer but I'd rather stay as a jedi"

Well, the offer still stays untill midnight, minus two minutes.

Quote: "Dude, that's supposed to be top secret... as are the time-travel watches... oh wait, you didn't mention those did you?"

Sssshht, now he knows...

Well, we could still add the address somewhere, like maybe in the credits section (or the main menu). Maybe something like:

More games can be found here:

http://adg.devink.co.uk/


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Hodgey
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2011 13:14
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Quote: "Damn, ninja'd anyway"

I'd just like to point out it was by me! Yessssssss!

Quote: "Well, the offer still stays untill midnight, minus two minutes."

Hahaha, well I believe I'm in now *checks clock* with plenty of time to spare.

Quote: "Dude, that's supposed to be top secret..."

Ah-ha! So that was the disturbance in the force I was feeling.

Quote: "Maybe something like:

More games can be found here:
http://adg.devink.co.uk/"

That isn't a bad alternative! Would we also be able to put a link in the app store descriptions?

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baxslash
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2011 13:22
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Quote: "Would we also be able to put a link in the app store descriptions?"

I don't see why not... they allowed an in-game link on AppUp, maybe in the description is OK too as long as we make sure the links are to store specific areas of the site.

Batvink, how are the store specific areas coming on? Not sure where we were up to...

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Hodgey
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2011 13:28
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I just hope the descriptions are capable of links but I think I've seen links in descriptions before...

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Bursar
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2011 15:05 Edited at: 2nd Sep 2011 15:09
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Quote: "Attached is a very early View of the menu. It's ONLY to test the scrolling really so there's only the top level of the menu. Once I've finished the game menu system I'll make it clickable to enter a game's menu for now just tell me what you think."

That's really smart. One thing that would be nice is a carousel of the available games, so you can see what else is in the list.

I know space is a little limited in portrait mode, but in landscape it would look ace.

Edit -> Just tried it on my Meego netbook and it works like a charm. I can get those screenshots spinning at light speed! They go much faster than on my Windows PC, so I wonder if that's down to the mouse sensitivity of the netbook?
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baxslash
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2011 15:25
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Quote: "Just tried it on my Meego netbook and it works like a charm. I can get those screenshots spinning at light speed! They go much faster than on my Windows PC, so I wonder if that's down to the mouse sensitivity of the netbook?"

Might be, but it could also be down to the scaling code. I'm still not sure it's 100% right yet...

I like the carousel idea, I'll try to implement it when I start add in an orientation check.

Nearly ready for an early view of the next menu which is not quite as interesting I'm sorry to say! Still it's early days

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The Slayer
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2011 15:58
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@baxslash:
Images done and sent.

Cheers

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baxslash
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2011 16:32 Edited at: 3rd Sep 2011 01:25
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Thanks @TheSlayer, here are some of them in action, I haven't added the buttons yet

Code and media included...

EDIT: Updated...

EDIT2: Updated again with sound FX

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Bursar
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2011 17:21
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Nice Double clicking to enter the game menu seems a bit picky though. It sometimes took 4 clicks to get in, or I'd click to enter the game, and a click would be passed through to the game menu and the 'return to main menu' dialogue would appear instantly.

Maybe a delay of half a second or so where you don't capture mouse clicks during the screen change would solve that issue.
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baxslash
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2011 17:30
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Quote: "Double clicking to enter the game menu seems a bit picky though. It sometimes took 4 clicks to get in, or I'd click to enter the game, and a click would be passed through to the game menu and the 'return to main menu' dialogue would appear instantly."

Try single clicking... there's no need to double click anywhere.

The delay I'm using between pressing and releasing the mouse is 0.1 of a second, outside of that counts as a 'drag'. Is that too quick maybe?

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JHA
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2011 17:32 Edited at: 2nd Sep 2011 17:32
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I'd like to join too!

@baxslash - Congrats on baby #3!!

I have 4 kids myself, with one of them being 100% disabled, so I don't have a ton of time to spare, but couldn't resist getting AGK.

Time allowing, I can test on Windows XP, Vista, 7, Android, iPod Touch and Netbook. Hoping to get an iPad at some point too. Being an IT guy has it's privileges!

Currently working on a game called TANKED. A very spiced up version of the original Atari 2600 Tank game.

Thanks,
Joe Austin
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baxslash
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2011 17:38
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Welcome to the group @JHA!

I look forward to seeing your game, I never had an Atari (always wanted one) so I don't remember the game, although I might recognise a screenshot

I'll add you to the list!

If you fancy adding a simple arcade game to our ADG Arcade 'X' games in 1 (for charity) we'd much appreciate it. Same goes for anyone else who might be interested in getting published.

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Bursar
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2011 17:44 Edited at: 2nd Sep 2011 17:45
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Quote: "Try single clicking... there's no need to double click anywhere.

The delay I'm using between pressing and releasing the mouse is 0.1 of a second, outside of that counts as a 'drag'. Is that too quick maybe?
"

Could be. I've just tried again, and I can only access the game menu probably 1 click in 4. Not sure how much of this is going to be down the mechanics/electronics of the mouse, and OS settings for click speeds.

It might well be a pain to (re)code, but how about this...

To move through the list of games, you swpie/drag the mouse as you currently do.

To select a game, you hold the mouse button down for a second or so. As you do this, a little circular progress bar moves around, and once it's filled up, the screen changes.

A small amount of wiggle room needs to be allowed during the selection process, but moving the mouse too much should cancel the selection process.

Something like this, (but a bit quicker) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ag_g71GCXWI Skip to the 14 minute mark to see it in action.
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JHA
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2011 17:52
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Thanks for adding me!!

Here is a very preliminary screenshot. I am just getting the layout, movement and collisions figured out before polishing and adding the bells and whistles. Graphics will be updated once I get it all working.

Thanks
JHA

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baxslash
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2011 17:56
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@Bursar, looks nice but I don't like waiting... I'll just increase the time slightly for the next copy

@JHA, I DO remember it! hehe

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Bursar
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2011 18:11
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Quote: "I'll just increase the time slightly for the next copy"

K. I was thinking of the touch users where it might be more difficult to have a quick finger press. Ofcouse if this isn't aimed at those devices, it doesn't matter
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baxslash
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2011 18:28
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Quote: "I was thinking of the touch users where it might be more difficult to have a quick finger press. Ofcouse if this isn't aimed at those devices, it doesn't matter"

It is, I didn't think it would be so hard to do a quick press but I haven't really tried my time out on a touch-screen yet. All of the apps I've tried on iPod touch have touch screen menus that you can use in this way so it must be possible to get the 'tap' speed right with a little experimentation.

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baxslash
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2011 19:23 Edited at: 3rd Sep 2011 01:29
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Just updated the code with a new intro screen. Also I added some more parameters to the click check code for you Bursar, now it checks whether the cursor is moving more than about 50 pixels in a press-release of less than 0.2 seconds, if it moves less than 50 pixels it's assumed to be a press rather than a drag. Should work much nicer

New Code: https://forumfiles.thegamecreators.com/download/2253408

EDIT: Added some music and sound effects too!!

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Hodgey
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2011 01:44 Edited at: 3rd Sep 2011 02:13
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The music and sound effects are awesome! That menu is excellent, you have outdone yourself once again baxslash.

Edit- Oh yeah, how do you upload to the forumfiles?

Edit 2 - With the variable prefixes I'm using 'RI' if that's okay with everyone?

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baxslash
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2011 02:29
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Quote: "The music and sound effects are awesome! That menu is excellent, you have outdone yourself once again baxslash."

Thanks Hodgey!

Quote: "Oh yeah, how do you upload to the forumfiles?"

Just attach a file to a forum post, the link to the file is the same as if you right click and copy the link from the bottom right of the post.

Quote: "With the variable prefixes I'm using 'RI' if that's okay with everyone?"

Consider it reserved!

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Hodgey
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2011 02:33 Edited at: 3rd Sep 2011 10:20
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Quote: "Just attach a file to a forum post, the link to the file is the same as if you right click and copy the link from the bottom right of the post."

Oh I see, so kind of like images then. Thanks.

Quote: "Consider it reserved!"

Thanks because I've already started using it. I've never used the find and replace this much in my life! But I'm very grateful for it.

Edit - Just noticed that all of the source code files will need the prefix in their name as well, otherwise we'll end up with X amount of 'main.agc's!

Edit 2 - The above should also be done with the Media folder. I think it would be best for each developer to create a "GameName_Media" folder inside the main "Media" folder so then baxslash can just copy/paste the "Gamename_Media" folder into the main project. Remember when programming you'll have to include the Gamename_media directory when loading entites. An example for me would be:
RI_image = LoadImage( "RI_Media\Images\myimage.bmp" )

Edit 3 - I'm just going to keep posting things as I think of them. Now as the limit for SetSpriteDepth is 10000 I believe AppGameKit allows up to 10001 sprites. So I think for this purpose as well as RAM management (as Bursar mentioned), everyone should load their images, sprites, sounds etc in a function, not at the beginning of the program, and then have this/these function(s) called when the user selects the game.

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Impetus73
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2011 11:21
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Looks great so far

Correct me if i'm wrong, but should not the line:

SetDisplayAspect( 640/ 960 )

Be:

SetDisplayAspect( 640.0/ 960.0 )

To get the right aspect ratio in floats? The sprites will not scale accurately until the 8'th decimal of a float, so it's best to calculate it in floats.

----------------
AGK user - novice
Did Amiga / AMOS programming in the 90's, just started programming again with AGK.
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Hodgey
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2011 11:36
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Quote: "Correct me if i'm wrong, but should not the line:

SetDisplayAspect( 640/ 960 )

Be:

SetDisplayAspect( 640.0/ 960.0 )
"

You make a good point Impetus73 but it appears that AppGameKit caters for this.


This will output 0.666667 (you may need to maximize the window) but that was a good spot Impetus73!

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Bursar
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2011 11:56
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Love the new version. Much easier to click on the screens and enter the game menus.

I'm pretty sure you don't need to declare both the resoultion and the aspect. You should be able to bin the SetDisplayAspect line.
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baxslash
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2011 12:24
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Quote: "Just noticed that all of the source code files will need the prefix in their name as well, otherwise we'll end up with X amount of 'main.agc's!"

Don't worry, I'll just take all the code and cram it into new files. People can just concentrate on getting their games done first

Quote: "The above should also be done with the Media folder. I think it would be best for each developer to create a "GameName_Media" folder inside the main "Media" folder so then baxslash can just copy/paste the "Gamename_Media" folder into the main project. Remember when programming you'll have to include the Gamename_media directory when loading entites. An example for me would be:
RI_image = LoadImage( "RI_Media\Images\myimage.bmp" )"

This is another good idea that will save me some time later.

Quote: "everyone should load their images, sprites, sounds etc in a function"

That would also help but a sub-routine is also fine.

Quote: "Love the new version. Much easier to click on the screens and enter the game menus."

I had a really good think about it. Glad you like the results

Quote: "I'm pretty sure you don't need to declare both the resoultion and the aspect. You should be able to bin the SetDisplayAspect line."

OK I'll try that now... yes you're right. It's out.

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Hodgey
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2011 14:10
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Quote: "Quote: "I'm pretty sure you don't need to declare both the resoultion and the aspect. You should be able to bin the SetDisplayAspect line."
OK I'll try that now... yes you're right. It's out."

Is there any harm in leaving it in though? I'm contemplating a few things at the moment. Also should the virtual resolution be 320, 480 to support older ipods/iphones?

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baxslash
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2011 14:24
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Quote: " Also should the virtual resolution be 320, 480 to support older ipods/iphones?"

Yes good point again! I'll do that.

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Bursar
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2011 14:31
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This is probably why we should have a dedicated thread for this project. There is loads of general ADG chatter mixed in with the Arcade project info.

The first post of the thread should contain the info that everyone needs, such as prefixing variable and function names so they don't clash (along with a list of those already taken by the menu system and project participants), having your own media folder, and common stuff such as virtual resolutions and expected key layouts, and the size of screenshots required for the menu system.
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Impetus73
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2011 15:31
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You might have to agree to either use the virtual resolution system, or the percentage system. I don't know if it's easy to merge all the games, if they use different coordinate systems and are optimized for different resolutions. I prefere making my graphics targeted for the Galaxy tab 10.1 1280x800 resolution, and then use the percentage system to scale to different resolutions.

Can you call the percentage/virtual resolution commands several places in the program, to change it to fit the selected game?

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baxslash
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2011 15:58
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Quote: "This is probably why we should have a dedicated thread for this project. There is loads of general ADG chatter mixed in with the Arcade project info."

Agreed. I'll start one in a little while. My graphics card may be dying though so I may have to transfer AppGameKit to the netbook...

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Impetus73
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About the aspect ratio problem, SetDisplayAspect( 640.0/ 960.0 )

Paul Johnston TGC, confirmed just now in another post that this needs to have the .0 versions of the numbers to internally produce a correct float aspect ratio, ifnot then an integer will be used.

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baxslash
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2011 16:52
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Thanks Impetus73!

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Posted: 3rd Sep 2011 17:23
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Quote: "Don't worry, I'll just take all the code and cram it into new files. People can just concentrate on getting their games done first"


The main.agc file is going to be a nightmare, because (as with DBP) you have to define and declare all your types in this file.

Forutnately global variables can be defined in a seperate file, so that eases some of the pressure.

It's going to take the patience of a saint to organise the combined code!
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baxslash
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2011 18:16
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Quote: "It's going to take the patience of a saint to organise the combined code!"

I'll sort it out. I deal with 20 year old uncommented gobbledygook code every day

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baxslash
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2011 20:05
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WIP post started for ADG Arcade here: http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=188978&b=8&p=0

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Posted: 3rd Sep 2011 22:39
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Excellent. Just posted on there.

What res are we aiming at? I've been developing at 800x600, but it would be useful for me to start running in the desired resolution so I can make any changes that I need to.
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baxslash
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2011 22:49
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Don't worry too much about the resolution, just try to make your game flexible so try it at 600x800, 1024x600, 960x640 and see if it looks OK. If it does I'm sure it'll be fine!

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