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Program Announcements / Newton Physics SDK running in DBPro!

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walaber
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Posted: 6th May 2004 06:52 Edited at: 5th Jun 2004 05:18
[edit] POST removed, please go to the last page of this thread for the newest version of the Newton wrapper[/edit]

Go Go Gadget DBPRO!

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Cpt Caveman
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Posted: 6th May 2004 10:48
Damn

That is very very good, that gravity demo, the last one is awesome, they are all awesome.

Is the bendy bridge meant to break??
walaber
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Posted: 6th May 2004 13:28 Edited at: 6th May 2004 13:40
Elemenop - yup. The physics engine allows for breakable joints, that's a simple demo of it. after 15 seconds, the bridge breaks. you could also make it if the bridge is stressed too much it will break, etc.
if you notice there is a "time remaining" counter in the upper right of the screen.

the last gravity demo is my favorite as well. was actually really simple, have a look at the source if you want.

Go Go Gadget DBPRO!

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adr
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Posted: 6th May 2004 13:43
w00t! I'll be downloading this after I get home from work tonight.... damn crappy work getting in the way of DBP stuff...

stop();
hammertime();
DEANO
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Posted: 7th May 2004 04:30
This is very COOL! stuff.

thanks

"When I examine myself and my methods of thought, I come to the conclusion that the gift of fantasy has meant more than my talent for absorbing positive knowledge."
-ALBERT EINSTEIN
Douglass
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Posted: 7th May 2004 06:05
walaber
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Posted: 7th May 2004 06:59
thanks for the comments. if anyone gets something working with the wrapper, please slap the source up on this thread so everyone can try it out.

I'm currently working on a little hovercraft demo that should be pretty impressive. Just needs a little tweaking.

Go Go Gadget DBPRO!

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hmm
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Posted: 7th May 2004 20:33
I've been tinkering around with it today trying to get a handle on the commands, but I don't have anything special to show. I've just made some functions to simplify making objects, positioning them, rotating them and setting velocities.

I'm currently trying to figure out how to use the joints commands (ball and socket one mainly). But I think I need a bit more info on what the commands do; I can't seem to get them to work in my code.

Anyway, this is really great and it's just really fun playing around with the demos. Shaping up nicely.

coincidence? how about pure cosmic convergence!
hmm
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Posted: 7th May 2004 21:10
Oh wait, I've now found the stuff on you website...

Okay, I've made a new function for creating a length of rope hanging from any point in space, made up of a specified number of objects of specified width. It is pretty neat! I'll do some more stuff before posting any code or screens.

coincidence? how about pure cosmic convergence!
walaber
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Posted: 8th May 2004 04:58
hmm glad to hear you're making progress! the wrapper is still in the early phases, let me know if there's anything confusing, or you'd like to see adjusted.

if you have version 0.7, there should be a really, really long file called ndb_docs.html with explanations of all of the commands...

by the way Newton has a new patch coming out soon with some new joints and other updates! I'll update the wrapper accordingly.

Go Go Gadget DBPRO!

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Jimmy
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Posted: 8th May 2004 11:49
Anyone else think walaber is a friggin GENIUS?

I do.

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walaber
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Posted: 8th May 2004 12:15
hey Jimmy, haven't seen you on the forum in a while.

thanks again for the webspace

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hmm
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Posted: 8th May 2004 16:38
another quick question;
how can I get an object's angle out? When I call 'object angle y()' it returns a value between -90 and +90? Anyway to convert this to proper angles. Need it to finish my little car thing.

coincidence? how about pure cosmic convergence!
Il Buzzo
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Posted: 8th May 2004 18:09
Me too!!!
Walaber I'd like to thank you for your wrapper!!!
I pasted my latest 30 minutes to writes keywords for DarkBasicPro editor.
I've finished so if this can be of some help download the file from
the following address:
[href]www.ilbuzzo.net/downloads/keywords110.ini[/href]
Then put it in your keywords directory under DarkBasicPro editor directory.
At this point if you want take advantage of help system just make a new directory called
Quote: "NDB"
under the directory
Quote: "commands"
of your darkBasicPro help directory.
Then copy ndb_docs.html in NDB directory e when you insert a NDB function with editor you can press F1 to show help on that function.
I also maked another file called 3rdparty.htm and saved it in the commands directory under help

I've also changed the file commands.htm under the help directory adding the following line just after 23rd group of commands

This way you're able to read with DB help system Newton Dll commands and you can add similarly more 3rd party commands.
Bye and thanks to walaber for his work.

Salvatore "Il Buzzo"
Il Buzzo
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Posted: 8th May 2004 18:12
Quote: "Me too!!"

was referred to the fact that I think walaber is a friggin GENIUS too!!!!!

Salvatore "Il Buzzo"
walaber
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Posted: 8th May 2004 19:34
hmm - I'm having the same problem.. it seems to happen when converting the rotation matrix into Euler angles. I'll have to send a quick email to Wolf, and ask him about it.

I'm making a hovercraft demo, and it has the same problem!

I'll see what I can find out!!

Il Buzzo - that's really funny, I was bored at work yesterday, and wrote a keywords file as well!! hehe... the next release of the wrapper will come with the keywords included Thanks for helping out!!!

Go Go Gadget DBPRO!

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hmm
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Posted: 8th May 2004 20:33
Check out this little demo. I've implemented a whole load of your stuff, and made some functions to make it quicker to set up objects and features such as bridges and ropes.
You can have a look at the cart I've made. See if you can find a way to make the back wheels provide a driving force (ie. rotate in the right direction).

Copy it to the same folder as all the other demos.
Arrowkeys move the ball.



coincidence? how about pure cosmic convergence!
walaber
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Posted: 8th May 2004 21:29 Edited at: 8th May 2004 21:38
I'll give it a run as soon as I get home!!! (I'm at work tonight).

I had a quick look at the source, and the only thing I'd like to mention is that in your "MakeBox" and "MakeSphere" functions, you are calling the NDB_NewtonBodySetAutoFreeze, and setting it to zero. You really shouldn't set this to zero unless you absolutely have to. Try removing this setting for everything but user-controlled objects, and you will see a performance increase. Have a look at the docs for a bit more info

again, I'll give it a more thorough look when I get home to my DBPro machine!

I'll figure out a way to make the car drive around, I promise

the easiest way to do it is to motorize the hinge joints for the axles. (which is not in the wrapper yet). Instead of applying an omega force to the wheels, you just apply an omega to the axle, and the childen (wheels) rotate automatically.

By the way, for those interested, The next update of the wrapper will have the following improvements:

1) more joints (there is a new patch coming out for Newton with 4 more joint types)
2) limits for Hinge / Slider joints (and probably the new joints as well)
3) Motorized joints!!!
4) Ragdolls!!! <- I had a look at the ragdoll system today, I think it'll be pretty straightfoward. I haven't tested it yet though.

unfortunately I am putting my snowball fight project first priority right now, because it's literally inches away from a beta release. once I get the Snowball Fight BETA released, I'll devote all of my programming time to the Newton wrapper. (I want to get the wrapper working great, and then make a simple but impressive game to show it off)

Also, discussing vehicles, using bodies and joints works OK for slow, little, simple vehicles, but there are limitations when trying to make anything too exciting. However according to the Newton forums a future update of the SDK will feature a special container for making vehicles (or any wheeled objects)... it should make car physics *really* simple to do. The next update will also probably have some new primitives (cylinders, capsules, cones) which will really open up the possibilities

Go Go Gadget DBPRO!

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Hamish McHaggis
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Posted: 8th May 2004 22:22
Had a look at the demos, seems to be much more solid than Tokamak, although the setup routine seems to be much more complicated , but I'll figure it out as I did with Tokamak.

Trying is the first step towards faliure.
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walaber
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Posted: 8th May 2004 22:41
to be honest, I thought Tokamak was much more confusing... but then again I never really learned Tokamak, and I've obviously spent a fair amount of time with Newton

Go Go Gadget DBPRO!

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Hamish McHaggis
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Posted: 8th May 2004 22:48 Edited at: 8th May 2004 22:51
Well, the actual setting up in newton seems confusing, due to all the vectors and matrices and stuff, in wolfs tokamak wrapper setting the position and rotation and stuff is just like in DBPro, use "TOKrb_SetPosition obj,x,y,z". Now that I've looked at it for a while it doesn't seem so confusing. There's probably actually nothing in it in terms of confusingness.

EDIT

I reckon it'd be a nice little tie in feature if you made your wrapper use DBPro vectors (and matrices maybe). Just a command like....

NDB_SetVectorDBPro dbvectnum

...maybe?

Trying is the first step towards faliure.
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Hamish McHaggis
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Posted: 9th May 2004 01:37
I've been mucking around with it a bit, but I can't seem to be able to make a ball act like a bowling ball (you know, it doesn't slow down much, and keeps rolling even at slow speeds). I have linear and angular damping set to 0 and friction doesn't seem to affect the speed at all. Do you have any clue how I could get this effect?

Trying is the first step towards faliure.
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Jimmy
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Posted: 9th May 2004 23:47
well, I decided to try this out and what I managed to get was a barrel falling onto a barrel, but when they collide, the top one bounces up and down until it finally settles on top of it. It's all very... bouncy

Here's my function for creating the barrels, the barrels are .x objects and the bottom one has a mass of 0



I've been reading your doc which is really cool, but I'll be honest with you, when it comes to physics i'm a dumbrain.

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walaber
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Posted: 10th May 2004 02:40
have a look at the Materials commands... you should be able to make the barrels less "bouncy" by adjusting the values...

Go Go Gadget DBPRO!

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Jimmy
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Posted: 10th May 2004 05:08
This is all I have as far as materials, I tried setting elasticity and softness to high numbers and low numbers and zeros, nothing changes



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walaber
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Posted: 10th May 2004 06:27 Edited at: 10th May 2004 06:28
Jimmy hmmmmm... the only other things I can think of are adjusting the gravity and masses...


QUICK RAGDOLL DEMO
For those interested, here's a REALLY simple preview of ragdolls in Newton. Although this demo uses primitive objects (a bunch of boxes) for the character, the ragdoll is setup and running through the internal Newton ragdoll system (instead of just using a bunch of joints manually). This means that with a little more work, I shuold be able to apply this to a boned-mesh character like in Wolf's tokamak demo. note- this isn't in the wrapper yet, i'm still working on it.

EXE DOWNLOAD: http://walaber.dbspot.com/rag.rar



WRAPPER UPDATE INFORMATION
Now that I've been working with Newton more in depth, I've come across some limitations to the wrapper when it comes to actually making something complex with it. These are not limitations with Newton, just with the way I've implemented parts of thw wrapper. As a result, the next version will have changes to some of the commands. So if anyone is making a serious project with Newton already, you will have to modify how your bodies are created in order to use the new version. Nothing too major, but I just wanted to let everyone know ahead of time. The next version (won't be released for a while though because I'm out of town all next week) should include:
1) Ragdolls for mesh-deformed objects AND primitive objects
2) More joints (universal joint, corkscrew joint, and more)
3) Motorized Joints (make motorized hinges, sliders, etc)
4) Joint Limits (for hinge and slider joints)

and of course updated docs, and a keywords file to make the commands highlight in the editor.

Go Go Gadget DBPRO!

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Jimmy
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Posted: 10th May 2004 07:40
haha, you can atleast make it reset

and thanks for your help, I had to change the mass of the barrels to 0.1 and grav 100 heh, i guess it's because my objects are bigger than those in the demos?

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walaber
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Posted: 10th May 2004 08:39
yeah, I'm still experimenting with the units... I think if you want realistic results, you need to decide on a scale for the entire system. for example, 1unit = 1meter, 1unit = 1kg, and then base all of your size , mass, and gravity values on that scale. that would probably give much better results.

yeah, I know it should reset, but.... um... it doesn't pretty cool though, eh? I'll update it if I get it working with a boned mesh object.

Go Go Gadget DBPRO!

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walaber
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Posted: 11th May 2004 07:09
the Newton SDK has just been updated... updates include a few bug fixes, and some new joints:

Quote: "
- Fixed collision tree optimizer crash when large mesh with lots of non manifold faces.
- Optimized dynamics solver slightly faster especially when handling large pile of objects.
- Combined common joint functionality into generic function (collision state, useddata, destruction)
- Added up vector constraint. Useful to control first and third person characters.
- Added corkscrew constraint.
"


here's some info on the next release (of the SDK)
Quote: "
Coming on next release:
- Universal joint.
- Sliding contact joint.
"


and after that, they've promised to add more collision primitives

as for the Wrapper, I'm putting it on hold until I get Snowball Fight released (should be very soon). Then I'm going to overhaul the wrapper to make it slicker and better. Then I'm going to make a simple (but complete) game to show off Newton and what it can do.

Go Go Gadget DBPRO!

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Jimmy
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Posted: 11th May 2004 08:13 Edited at: 11th May 2004 08:34
so... any bright ideas on how to create the force of an explosion with this wrapper?

I see AddBodyImpulse here and so, my best bet might be to cycle through all objects and KABOOM them accordingly, due to the early stage of the wrapper, but I'd like to hear the thoughts of the creat0r

and that's you

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walaber
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Posted: 11th May 2004 09:39 Edited at: 11th May 2004 09:40
Jimmy yeah I was wondering that myself. I think the best way would be to decide the origin of the explosion first. then cycle through every object, calculating the distance from the explosion origin. if the distance is within the explosion radius (you can set this to whatever you like), then apply an impulse to the object, and make the strength relative to the distance.

when you are calculating this distance, you also conveniently get a vector from the origion pointing to the body. if you normalize that vector, you can use it as the direction of the impulse.

in code:


I just whipped this up at work, not sure if it will actually work, as I can't test it right now. however if you do get an explosion demo working PLEASE post the source up so we can see it

Friction table
for those interested I found the following data off the net for static and sliding coefficients for various common materials. might be of use.


Go Go Gadget DBPRO!

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Jimmy
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Posted: 11th May 2004 09:58 Edited at: 11th May 2004 09:59
yeah, that's what just finished doing, like 10 minutes ago

it seems to work alright most of the time, but then it starts sending everything in one direction, heh, I dunno

x#, y#, z# are passed in as position of explosion
and feelBoom() is just an array of the object numbers




I'm thinking of trying some Get and Set velocities, if I can't get the impulse to shove in the right direction, but that will require a little more math... which is too much for my little brain tonight heh, maybe after some rest i'll work on it tomorrow

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walaber
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Posted: 11th May 2004 10:53
everything is great except for these 2 lines line:

Quote: "vel# = (500.0/dist#)*100
NDB_SetVector 1, vel#, vel#, vel#"


the vel# value will always be positive. but you want to send a vector that describes the direction of the explosion. look at my code above for a more complete example. but basically just do this:

velx# = (dx# / dist#) * (500.0/dist#)*100
vely# = (dy# / dist#) * (500.0/dist#)*100
velz# = (dz# / dist#) * (500.0/dist#)*100

that should do it.

Go Go Gadget DBPRO!

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zircher
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Posted: 11th May 2004 19:43
Let me know when you get a 'minefield pinball' demo going.
--
TAZ

Neil19533
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Posted: 11th May 2004 19:50
My code seems to make the program close. Any Ideas?


Any spelling mistakes are totally In tensional.
Jimmy
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Posted: 11th May 2004 20:46
Ah I gotcha walaber, see I figured direction was calculated by NDB based on the position of the impulse and vel# was an incremented change in velocity.

Neil, do you HAVE an object 1?
And is your newton.dll in the right folder?
Aaanndd, that's all I can think off

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Neil19533
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Posted: 11th May 2004 22:02
the dll is in the right place and object 1 was declared befor the physics part

Any spelling mistakes are totally In tensional.
Jimmy
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Posted: 11th May 2004 23:31
And you have a loop
with

NDB_NewtonUpdate
SYNC

in it?

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Neil19533
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Posted: 12th May 2004 00:10
yep

Any spelling mistakes are totally In tensional.
Jimmy
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Posted: 12th May 2004 00:14
Maybe you could post the whole code

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Neil19533
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Posted: 12th May 2004 00:24
i deleted it but this is basically what it is but i made some movement controls


Any spelling mistakes are totally In tensional.
Jimmy
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Posted: 12th May 2004 03:33
Well walaber, I finally got to test your new and improved math and it worked... except it sucked everything IN hehe, the old black hole effect

so I just reversed the values and it worked, thanks man

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walaber
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Posted: 12th May 2004 06:11 Edited at: 12th May 2004 06:12
Jimmy - post up a demo if you get a chance, I'd love to see it!

Neil 19533 - sorry, there is something important missing in the documentation. the NDB_NewtonCreateTreeCollision command internally uses the mesh and memblock commands. In order for the program to run properly, you must force Dark Basic to include the DLLs that contain those commands. the easiest way to do this, is to go to the very bottom of your source (make sure you have an "end" command above), and add this:

delete memblock 1
delete mesh 1

these commands should be somewhere where they will NEVER actually be called (because of course you don't actually have a memblock 1/ mesh 2)... but this forces DBPro when it compiles to include the memblock and mesh commands. if you look at my demo03 source, you'll notice those two commands at the bottom. I'll update the docs in the next release! sorry for the confusion.

Go Go Gadget DBPRO!

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Jimmy
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Posted: 12th May 2004 08:55 Edited at: 12th May 2004 08:55
Alrighty sir

http://www.dbspot.com/ChaosHizzleDemo.rar

I am currently workin on player movement/collision using NDB. If you use the IJKL keys you can see what I have so far.. which isn't much cuz I just started before I took my basketball break

Otherwise you WASD to move fast... and correctly, basically just go forward til you find some barrels and TEH statue with glowy fairy things around it

Press R to drop barrel upon barrel on top of one of the barrels.. then shoot a barrel (click) and explode it (click again) next to the stack, it's fun

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walaber
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Posted: 12th May 2004 09:38 Edited at: 12th May 2004 09:40
damn I wish I wasn't at work right now! I'll give is a try as soon as I get home!

[edit] by the way the next update of the wrapper will include the new "Up Vector"joint, which is specifically designed for characters. basically it will allow you to make a player body, that will always be standing up, but can rotate on a single axis (usually the y axis). should make platform, third-person, first-person shooters a little easier!

Go Go Gadget DBPRO!

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Jimmy
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Posted: 12th May 2004 09:45
Bah, you're always at work

Well, time for bed for me.. crazy.. JAPAN..

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walaber
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Posted: 12th May 2004 11:18
hehe.

hew I found a really cool link that explains how to calculate the Moments of Inertia for several primitive shapes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_moments_of_inertia
Plugging these formulas in when using the NDB_NewtonBodySetMassMatrix command should yield much more realistic results. certainly better than putting all 1.0's!

I'm contemplating making a function to calculate these values for you... the function would be something like NDB_CalculateMomentOfInertiaBox mass, width, height, depth
NDB_CalculateMomentOfInertiaSphere mass, radius

it would fill the temp vector with the Ixx, Iyy, and Izz values. might be usefull for those who don't like fiddling with formulas
will probably be in the next update. in the meantime, have a look at the link and try using the formulas in your projects!

Go Go Gadget DBPRO!

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walaber
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Joined: 22nd Oct 2003
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posted: 13th May 2004 06:14
Jimmy - That's a pretty cool demo! I really like the explosion effects! I was having a blast shooting barrels into the air, and exploding them, trying to keep another barrel afloat, like playing volleyball or something

the physics seem a little unrealistic though... try plugging in thost formulas for the Moment of Inertia (Ixx, Iyy, Izz) along with realistic mass / gravity values, and I think it'll act even better. Also once Newton gets cylinder primitves added, the barrels will act even better (rolling down hills, etc)

Go Go Gadget DBPRO!

Athlon XP 2400+ || DDR-SDRAM 1GB || Nvidia GeForce 4 Ti4200 AGP 8x 128MB
Neil19533
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 30th Aug 2003
Location: England
Posted: 15th May 2004 16:09
i have tried what you said but it still goes off

as soon as it loads it goes off any ideas on why this is

Any spelling mistakes are totally In tensional.
walaber
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 22nd Oct 2003
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posted: 15th May 2004 16:17
hmmm... it's possible it's your .x model.... I'll be out of town for a week and a half, when I get back, send me the model and I'll see what's up!

Go Go Gadget DBPRO!

Athlon XP 2400+ || DDR-SDRAM 1GB || Nvidia GeForce 4 Ti4200 AGP 8x 128MB

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