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Program Announcements / Newton Physics SDK running in DBPro!

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Scraggle
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Posted: 12th Aug 2004 18:38
SORRY

I just received a notice that the email bounced back. The file was too big!

It took about an hour and a half to upload too, even with a 1MB ADSL line!

Any ideas?

Dave J
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Posted: 12th Aug 2004 18:40
That's odd, Gmail has 1 gig worth of space and I've only used 2mb of it! It must not be able to accept large file sizes.

Could you please try emailing it to Exeat@Designex.net - Thanks, and sorry for the trouble.

How large is the file by the way? I had no idea it would take so long.


"Computers are useless they can only give you answers."
walaber
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Posted: 12th Aug 2004 18:45 Edited at: 12th Aug 2004 18:48
okay, I mirrored it on my old DBSpot account

http://walaber.dbspot.com/NDBv_123c.exe

and in case you want to try the serializer utility (although you can write your own with about 10 lines of code)

http://walaber.dbspot.com/serializer.exe

NOTE - Please use my walaber.com account, these D/L links are for those who can't yet access the site.

Exeat - let me know what you think of the wrapper!

Go Go Gadget DBPRO!

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eat much pie
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Posted: 12th Aug 2004 19:45
Whenever I go onto your new site, IE tells me that it needs to install Japanese. Very odd


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Dave J
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Posted: 12th Aug 2004 23:23
Thanks a lot Walaber, but halfway through the Setup I get an error:

"Run-time error '76': Path Not Found"

The path I specified for DBP is correct so I have no idea why that happens. Will copying the files across myself cause any problems? Or is it basically exactly the same as what the installer does?


"Computers are useless they can only give you answers."
walaber
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Posted: 12th Aug 2004 23:50
that's exactly what the setup does... it'e DavidT`s installer, I really need to download the newest version

just copy the files in the `wrapper` directly by hand and you'll be all set!

Go Go Gadget DBPRO!

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Hawkeye
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Posted: 13th Aug 2004 08:39
I couldn't get it to work either I tried copying NDB.dll and newton.dll by hand, but no can do. Oh yeah, and what is this installer Exeat was talking about? I got the dll in a ziped file... Very wierd...

~Hawkeye
walaber
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Posted: 13th Aug 2004 09:48
where did you copy the files to?

the latest release has a file called "install.exe" that will copy the files for you, or you can copy the files in the "wrapper" directory yourself.

NDB.dll should be in [darkbasic]\compiler\plugins-user

keywords_ndb.ini should be in [darkbasic]\Editor\Keywords

NDB_docs.htm should be in [darkbasic]\Help

the Newton.dll file should be copied into the same directory as your PROJECT EXE.

Go Go Gadget DBPRO!

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Dave J
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Posted: 13th Aug 2004 15:09 Edited at: 13th Aug 2004 15:15
Cool. I just tried copying them over and I realised they were all already there except the 'ndb_docs.htm' file wasn't in the help folder so I'm guessing that's the file it couldn't find the path for. And yeah, DavidT's installer still has quite a few bugs, I couldn't even get it to compile my plugin's files into a setup file!

Will test out Newton now, thanks!

Edit: I just noticed the Keywords Ini file links to: "ndb_docs.html" where as the file included in the zip is actually named "ndb_docs.htm" which causes DBP to error when you press F1. A simple renaming of the file fixes this, but maybe this could also be the problem with the setup?


"Computers are useless they can only give you answers."
walaber
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Posted: 13th Aug 2004 19:18
ah, that's my fault. I found 2 copies of it, and it seems I must have chosen the wrong one

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Hawkeye
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Posted: 14th Aug 2004 02:17
AHA! The newton.dll must be copied into your project directory... I was putting it into the plugins_user folder Thanks, I'll be sure to try this out...

~Hawkeye
zircher
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Posted: 14th Aug 2004 02:35
Just for giggles, I've posted a WIP thread for my Newton powered snake.

http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=37153&b=8&p=0

I've got a couple of cropped screenies posted and some assorted commentary.
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TAZ

"Do you think it is wise to provoke him?" "It's what I do." -- Stargate SG-1
QuothTheRaven
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Posted: 14th Aug 2004 04:36
I've download the file with the 6 demos and the DLL, but none of the DBP demos will compile because it doesn't recognize any of the NGD commands, what do I have to include to make the demos work?

zircher
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Posted: 14th Aug 2004 05:21
See Walaber's and Exeat's posts just a few messages up from here that they posted today.
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FXTC
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Posted: 16th Aug 2004 04:32
You can me advise st. to how I have do Newton world with csmimporter 3.10.
I am it occlusion,but it did not work.

source for NGC work


and for Newton?
Please help it solve.
Ilya
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Posted: 16th Aug 2004 14:55
If I took apart a clock and modeled it in Catography Shop, imported it in DarkBasic and enabled Newton physics, would it work like a clock?

-Ilya
zircher
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Posted: 17th Aug 2004 00:20 Edited at: 17th Aug 2004 00:22
Probably not, due to simulation precision more than the lack of commands in the API.

You can do a lot in Newton, but you still need to define all the parts and the forces to apply to them. Newton does have the ability to merge primitives into complex shapes. So, it is possible to define all the teeth on a gear, but do you have the patience to write all the code to do that?

I'm not sure if Newton can calculate the forces of a coiled watch spring, that's fairly complex behavior to model. But, I know that you could simulate the end force using the forces provided. (Or fake it with a linked assemble of motorized joints...)
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TAZ

"Do you think it is wise to provoke him?" "It's what I do." -- Stargate SG-1
walaber
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Posted: 18th Aug 2004 13:27
version 1.23d released!

this is another small update. the only addition to this version is the ability to built Tree Collisions by hand (poly by poly).

using the new commands, you can make your own custom TreeCollision objects, without having to use a pre-loaded object. for example you could make a tree collision from Matrix data, etc.

the new commands are in the documentation but here's a short explanation:

NDB_NewtonCreateTreeCollision - call this command with NO parameters, and it will return an empty TreeCollision.

NDB_NewtonTreeCollisionBeginBuild - then call this command on the empty collision to tell Newton you want to start adding poly data.

NDB_NewtonTreeCollisionAddFace - then call this command for every polygon you want to add. you pass the vertice data by filling temp vectors 1,2,3 with the 3 vertices of the polygon and then call this command. remember vertices are in local space.

NDB_NewtonTreeCollisionEndBuild - finally you call this command to tell Newton the TreeCollision is complete. this command also has a flag for optimizing the poly data internally. this is HIGHLY recommended as Newton has a very advanced algorithm to speed up collision internally.


...and that's it. now you can make Tree Collisions from any poly data you can think of. for anyone thinking about making a scorched earth clone with Newton, you can now build Tree Collision data from matrices, etc.

download at my website, or click below for a direct link:

http://walaber.com/ndb/NDBv_123d.exe

Go Go Gadget DBPRO!

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osc
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Posted: 24th Aug 2004 08:39 Edited at: 24th Aug 2004 08:45
ok forget i said anything, i downloaded the wrong file
FXTC
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Posted: 25th Aug 2004 00:34
It is possible use Newton with CSM importer for DBP ?
In CShop map CSM set entities - aces and with CSM importer load to the DBP and use Newton.
CSM importer employs many people,it is interesting it combine and use.
It gives big possibility easily build CSM lion A set in him Newton characteristics.
It is good way similar as in GS6
Powersoft
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Posted: 28th Aug 2004 17:49
Just noticed that Newton doesnt work with BlueIDE


Scorched Turf --> Project Thread
walaber
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Posted: 28th Aug 2004 17:59
I use BlueIDE exclusively... what is the problem you're having? I've no problems here.

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David T
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Posted: 29th Aug 2004 02:01
Hi,

There are an awful lot of replies here so it's probably been asked before but...

Is it possible to have a sphere move like a marble through terrain. Your slide demo (03 I think) works fine, but I need to be able to rotate the DBPro object and have those changes reflected in teh objects behaviour. Se when I tip the objhect up, the marble rolls across it in the appropriate direction.

Is it possible?

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Powersoft
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Posted: 29th Aug 2004 02:51 Edited at: 29th Aug 2004 02:53
it says that i need to put Newton.dll in the project directory


[edit]

Realised it was because i was using the temp directory. . .

i hadnt saved the code


Scorched Turf --> Project Thread
walaber
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Posted: 29th Aug 2004 11:04
David T - yes it's possible. but yuo can't use a TreeCollision object (mesh object), because those object have infinite mass, and are therefore immobile. the best thing to do is to design your 'labrynth board', and then use my rigid body desiger (check the WIP thread for my compo entry) to assign rigid bodies to it. then you can manipulate it live in the program, and the sphere will roll appropriately.

I can send you a .bod file loader (DBPro code) if you decide to try it.

Go Go Gadget DBPRO!

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zircher
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Posted: 29th Aug 2004 15:36
I wonder if you could take it from a different angle and keep the tree collision object and simply change the direction of gravity, tilt the camera, etc.
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"Do you think it is wise to provoke him?" "It's what I do." -- Stargate SG-1
walaber
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Posted: 29th Aug 2004 19:33
hmmm... that's actually a pretty amazing idea. would work really well

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David T
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Posted: 5th Sep 2004 19:33
(sorryfor slow reply)

Yes I was thinking something like that. Could you change the direction of gravity to be in line with the maze object's angle?

Also this may count lazy but I can't figure out the plugin for love nor money, if you did have the time to write a very simple example I'd be very greatful.

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The thing
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Posted: 6th Sep 2004 03:59
I have downloaded version 1.24 of newnton physics but I do not know how to make it work in dark basic pro.

C.M.M
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Posted: 6th Sep 2004 09:55 Edited at: 6th Sep 2004 09:55
Yeah, a sort of showcase demo would be nice. I sorta figured out the basic idea, but I've yet to make my model react with the level properly And could you also help me how as to move an object steadly across a world object while still maintaining the collision stuff?

btw, I am lazy, so don't make it too difficult

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zircher
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Posted: 8th Sep 2004 04:47 Edited at: 8th Sep 2004 05:22
Have you guys looked at the six demos that come with Walaber's wrappers? They have source code and everything. Several of the demos give you direct control over the units involved.

I did find one glitch in version 123d, the html help file uses the htm extension while the keywords file uses html.

David, setting up gravity is snap. Assuming one unit is equal to one meter, this is all you need.

NDB_SetVector 0.0, -9.8, 0.0
NDB_SetStandardGravity

The key is the vector. By matching the tilt of the board to the force of 'X' or 'Z' gravity, you can pull a ball in any direction. To simulate a slope to the right, increase the size of the X vector. Between the pull of gravity and the internal inertia of the ball, you should be able to simulate the effect quite nicely.

Callum, did you download Walaber's wrapper and follow the instructions in the readme file? His wrapper is the interface between the language and the library.

Hawkeye, most of the collision/physics handling stuff is done for you. Now, if you want to handle your own collisions inside Newton, that does require a little more work. Basically, you have to create material groups, assign those groups to bodies, and then check for collisions with those bodies.

This isn't a proper demo as much as a very basic set of commands that I'm using in my Ice Snake contest entry...



In case I missed something in one of the existing demos, that would be a good next demo for Walaber to add. Of course, I'll make the Ice Snake source code available after the contest. [Perhaps before hand as well, but it won't be as pretty as what the judges would get.]
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Hawkeye
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Posted: 8th Sep 2004 06:23 Edited at: 8th Sep 2004 06:23
aHA! Thanks zircher, you cleared everything up as usual I had been wondering about the vectors stuff, but now I understand it. You set the y thing to the number of units you want your object to fall per second squared. So, like you said, 0,-9.8,0 would give you standard gravity presuming that 1 unit=1 meter. You would set it to 0,-32,0 if 1 unit=1 foot. There would be abit of guess work involved as to what a unit equals in your game world, but that could be easily fixed

btw, I was talking about having a third-person game where newton controled the collisions with the world but you could move the object a set number of units per loop. Kinda like ng's dll, only with all the stuff newton has with impluses, ragdolls, etc. etc. I had seen the example with the superballs and the rotating room (example four I think?) but I wan't sure as how to do the sliding collisions and stuff. It would be (somewhat) simple to have basic collision that restricts the axices that you can move along, but I was talking more along the lines of BSP collision (without all of the bugs, of course ). Sorta like using ROTATE OBJECT and MOVE OBJECT, only with newton handling all of the collision. I'm sure this can be done, but the only way I know invloves the interia thingee, and the last time I checked, players, monsters, bullets, etc. etc. are not supposted to be accelerating

Anyhow, thanks a lot for the gravity help, zircher, that cleared up a lot
~Hawkeye

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David T
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Posted: 8th Sep 2004 19:35
Thanks zircher.

Once I have a ball and board set up, how would one apply an impulse to the ball in a certain direction? (I know most of this stuff is in the help files, but it's easier if somebody who knows it explains )

And can you specify the strength of the impulse?

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zircher
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Posted: 8th Sep 2004 23:58 Edited at: 9th Sep 2004 00:32
David, you know how gravity pulls things based on a vector. Well, impulses push things based on a vector. For a marble maze game, you shouldn't need to apply any impulses since the marble is only pulled by gravity.

The length of the vector (relative to 0,0,0) determines its strength.



Now, if you were making a Marble Madness clone where the terrain was static, applying impulses and perhaps torque to the marble would be the ideal method for rolling a ball around. Each game has different mechanical forces. Also, in the case of a Marble Madness clone, you can use material group properties to set up special effects such as ice.
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TAZ

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zircher
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Posted: 9th Sep 2004 00:31 Edited at: 9th Sep 2004 00:34
Hawkeye, once you set up the Newton definitions for the objects and set up forces such as gravity, the majority of actions happen automatically each update. That includes sliding collisions with other objects and the level. If you need to restrict the motion of an object, say a pendulum, you would have to create a joint as well.

What makes my snake sim work is the definition of the ball joints. It determines resistance and the range of motion. Too much of one and you get a flying stick, too little and you get lumpy yarn. It takes a little trial and error to set eveything up, but the results are well worth the effort.

When using the Newton API, you'll discover that you spend a lot more time setting up the scene. But, your 'game loop' becomes much easier since the game world will take care of itself for the most part. You just have to write the user input to control your game objects.

To use David's marble tilt game as an example: In the game loop, he'll have code to tilt the board or change the gravity vector (depending on how he creates his level) and code to detect if he reaches the end of the maze or falls through. But, that's it. All the rolling, acceleration, deceleration, collisions with maze walls, and such will be handled by Newton's engine.
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TAZ

"Do you think it is wise to provoke him?" "It's what I do." -- Stargate SG-1
The thing
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Posted: 10th Sep 2004 03:47
I can not get onto walabers website. I am asked to download japenese text display but when I start downloading it a message comes up saying that it can not find japenese text display.

C.M.M
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Posted: 10th Sep 2004 05:48 Edited at: 10th Sep 2004 05:51
Wallabers website is in English, it`s just explorer being a dumba**, the only text that doesn`t display properly without the Japanese is the title bar to the website in the top of the Exporer window, hardly mission critical , just ignore the invite to download Japanese.

Mentor.

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walaber
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Posted: 10th Sep 2004 15:19
yeah sorry about that... I have a Japanese Windows, so I think the web publishing software I use defaults to the Japanese character set, which confuses IE.

I really should fix the title bar though.

by the way, Zircher thanks for holding down the fort while I've been away this week (technicaly I'm still away on business, but I got the internet working in my hotel so I can check the forums once in a while)

Go Go Gadget DBPRO!

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zircher
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Posted: 11th Sep 2004 00:30
Glad to help.
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The thing
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Posted: 11th Sep 2004 02:15
Ignoring the japenese text display dose not work however I did download the wrapper by going to http://walaber.com/ndb/ and clicking on ndbv 123d.exe.testing now.

C.M.M
walaber
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Posted: 15th Sep 2004 12:47 Edited at: 15th Sep 2004 12:56
RAG GUI v1.0

this is an amazing program made by the user French Gui. you can use it like my Ragdoll Designer beta, but this one will automatically size all of the bones for you, based on the attached vertices! you can even test the ragdoll from within the editor. it also exports to my .rag format, and I've included the DBPro source to load .rag files in your own projects.

with this program and a properly designed .x model (from Character FX), anyone can add ragdolls to their own games!


DOWNLOAD LINK RAG GUI v1.0 - self extracting EXE




Go Go Gadget DBPRO!

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walaber
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Posted: 16th Sep 2004 23:01
I finally wrapped up another system in the Newton SDK, which lets you visualize the actual rigid bodies as Newton sees them, which is really useful for debugging purposes. you can turn on the visualizer, and see the actual data behind your rigid bodies... this can help when trying to determine bugs, etc.

I have built two different ways to do it:

(1) the wrapper draws the individual polygons with 2d lines, which results in an un-culled wireframe of each face. this method is simple, but slower when there are lots of objects around.

(2) the wrapper makes an entirely new object, of all of the rigid bodies in the scene. this object defaults to wireframe mode. if you continually delete and re-make the object, you can watch the data in realtime. or, for advanced debuggin purposes, you can keep each object, which represents each frame, and examine the data very carefully.

here are some screenshots:

here's a simple example of the line-method.


here's an example with the object method on a TreeCollision object. note how Newton optimizes the data, turning polygons on the same plane into single faces.


finally here's an example with a ragdoll. you can visualize the boxes underneath in realtime!


Go Go Gadget DBPRO!

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zircher
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Posted: 17th Sep 2004 00:41
Three cheers for the visualizer!! My number one beef with all the collision systems that I've tried is that I could not see the real collision geometry when I was troubleshooting a problem.
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TAZ

"Do you think it is wise to provoke him?" "It's what I do." -- Stargate SG-1
Humanoid
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Posted: 17th Sep 2004 09:01
why RAG GUI v1.0 .x files must be binary format?
and why it doesn't support other formats?

Suomi Finland PERKELE!
walaber
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Posted: 17th Sep 2004 13:08
the program actually reads through the .x file, so it knows what vertices go with what bone (as DBPro has no functions to tell you this). the parser is written for ASCII .x files (which are much simpler), so that's the reason for the limitation.

my Ragdoll Designer Tool BETA can load any bones mesh model that DBPro can load, so you can try using that one instead. it along with the Rigid Body Designer BETA are now on my website on the Newton page.

Go Go Gadget DBPRO!

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French gui
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Posted: 17th Sep 2004 20:24 Edited at: 17th Sep 2004 20:26
Quote: "why RAG GUI v1.0 .x files must be binary format?
and why it doesn't support other formats?
"


Hey! Rag gui files must be in NON binary format!(uncheck it in CFX export options).

My English is not so good I'm just French
Humanoid
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Posted: 18th Sep 2004 03:09
hmm, but RAG Gui V1.0 doesn't support ascii frame format, why?

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French gui
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Posted: 18th Sep 2004 03:57
What tool do you use ,Sinkomies, to set up your model for ragdoll?

My English is not so good I'm just French
Humanoid
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Posted: 18th Sep 2004 05:45
i use 3D canvas, but i am waiting for walaber's mail
about the commands

NDB_StartCompoundCollision
NDB_AddCollisionToArray

which are being used in 'rbd loader.dba', and I intend to use rod files only because my models has only one frame. I'd liked to test RAG gui V1.0, but with it comes no example models so I'd need to make them myself. Oh, and I'm not going to use CFX

Suomi Finland PERKELE!
French gui
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Joined: 11th May 2004
Location: France
Posted: 18th Sep 2004 16:35
Hmmm. I haven't 3D Canvas, so I don't know if you can set up properly a model for ragdolls.Ask to Walaber. If you need a model to test RagGui, use Walaber's George.x (in his fantastic Monkey Bowling) or Franky.x (in his 'abandoned' project in the WIP forum)

My English is not so good I'm just French

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