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Program Announcements / Newton Physics SDK running in DBPro!

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shado
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Posted: 19th Jun 2004 21:41
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Will there be a way to make ragdolls for those of us not gifted enough to have characterFX?
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Cpt Caveman
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Posted: 20th Jun 2004 01:02
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Walaber, Ive tried that command, it just gives me numbers between -2 to +2 as the hinge rotates around its axis
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Cpt Caveman
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Posted: 20th Jun 2004 01:04 Edited at: 20th Jun 2004 01:08
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And what about hinge limits, why dont they work for me??? I have just been using that hinge demo you gave me earlier, one the motor starts turning the door it doesnt stop until I make the power negative and it turns back the other way.
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Douglass
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Posted: 20th Jun 2004 05:15
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okay i looked into the upvector thing and i found some code for it in one of your tutorials but it just crashed my game. would you mind giving exact code for the upvector?


http://www.dougsworld.tk
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walaber
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Posted: 20th Jun 2004 07:39
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Bored - the tutorial is written for Character FX, but if you don't mind opening up a .x file in wordpad (ascii .x files only of course), I think you can setup a ragdoll without it. Character FX just makes it easy to explain and set up.

Eldar - sorry for not answering your question. As far as I know 700 objects is not the limit. The wrapper can handle up to 10,000 rigid bodies, but I'm not sure about Newton itself, that's a question for the Newton forum! I guess I should look into it, because the wrapper might be wasting memory now...

Elemenop - oops. it looks like it is in radians after all. you can convert radians to degrees like so:

degrees = radians * (180 / 3.14159)

that should give you the angle. also remember when you want to apply limits, you need to call the NDB_NewtonHingeSetUserCallback with a flag of "3", which means you want both motorization and limits at the same time. I just realized the documentation doesn't explain that part fully, sorry. demo05 shows an example of this with the "pusher" slider joint.


Doug the UpVector is as simple as calling the NDB_NewtonConstraintCreateUpVector command. Be sure you set the direction of the pin into temp vector 1 before calling the command. for example, to apply an UpVector joint to the body "Character", you would do the following:



...it should be that simple!

project update I've added the ability to access the rigid bodies that make up a ragdoll, which means you can finally control a ragdoll (by adding impulses, etc), as well as detect collision with ragdolls. And most exciting, you can add attach a ragdoll to other bodies with external joints. I'm working on a new tech demo that makes use of this

Go Go Gadget DBPRO!

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Cpt Caveman
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Posted: 20th Jun 2004 11:22
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I converted it to degrees but it still isnt doing what I require as it I am only getting 8 angles like a compass, not 0-360. Also it gives negative degrees too.
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walaber
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Posted: 20th Jun 2004 11:45
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it should give angles between -180 and 180. zero is the angle when the joint was defined...

what exactly are you trying to accomplish?

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Cpt Caveman
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Posted: 20th Jun 2004 14:24
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I know you said you shouldn't move/rotate objects manually as the force is not controlled by newtons. But what I am trying to do is if you walk up to a door and press space it rotates 90 degrees and returns back to its original position after a certain time period. You can only open the door by pressing space not forcing an object into it to trigger the event, and this is all I can do at the moment, if the door is stationary and I press space it doesnt rotate, but if I move an object into it the motorised joint starts and the door rotates. Finding the degrees the door has rotated was just something I got sidetracked on to.
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walaber
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Posted: 20th Jun 2004 15:46
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ah!　that's happening because Newton removes bodies from the "active" list when they reach equilibirum (are stable). so the body won't rotate! you need to call the NDB_NewtonBodySetAutoFreeze command to force the object into the active list.

I wouldn't recommend doing this all the time, for example you could normally set the flag to "0", and when the user presses space, set the flag to "1" for one program loop. that should kick the door into action.

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Eldar
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Posted: 20th Jun 2004 19:06
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Thanks for the help.

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Douglass
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Posted: 21st Jun 2004 04:50
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i tryed copying that code after i make my body and replacing the word character with my body number. then i tryed my program and it just quit out before anything happened.


http://www.dougsworld.tk
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walaber
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Posted: 21st Jun 2004 06:49
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and the program works without the code?

if so, could you please send me your sorurce so I can take a look at it?

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walaber
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Posted: 21st Jun 2004 10:10 Edited at: 21st Jun 2004 10:11
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project update
just to let everyone know, the next version of the wrapper should be available around the end of this month. I'm currently waiting on the next patch for the actual Newton SDK to be released so I can include all of the new features with the next version.

currently planned to be included:
Ragdoll support (with tutorial)
Cylinder Primitive (finally)
General Conics Primitives (cones/pyramids I assume)
Convex Hull Ptimitives (see post a while back, very cool)
RayCast API (like intersect object, but more detail returned)

and a few utility functions, the most exciting being NDB_BuildMatrix which you pass rotation and translation values, and it builds a matrix. makes what used to be a 5 command affair into a single, concise line! I've already got this in, and using it on my own stuff... I can't imagine writing a Newton program without it anymore

Go Go Gadget DBPRO!

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CattleRustler
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Posted: 22nd Jun 2004 04:28
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Hey Walaber, I was playing with this demo and at one point I was flinging balls around and the left door broke off, flew away upwards, and never returned! I just thought it was funny so I posted a screenie...




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walaber
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Posted: 22nd Jun 2004 04:42 Edited at: 22nd Jun 2004 04:44
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hehe... yep, it's possible... it's a result of not setting the mass values accurately. the balls have much more mass than the doors, so if they hit just right, they can apply a force so strong on the doors that the joint breaks, and the door goes flying!

that's one of the main challenges with using a physics engine, is making sure you have accurate values for your rigid bodies.

PROJECT UPDATE
Today I started adding in Buoyancy functionality to the wrapper, and it was actually really easy, I don't know why I waited so long to put it in! it still needs some fine-tuning, but it's working.

here's a demo of bouyancy (slapped together pretty quick):


note that this demo has a flat plane representing water, but the system can handle any plane... so you could animate a matrix/memblock matrix like water, and then send the normals to the engine, and it would react appropriately! you can of course also control all factors regarding the fluid, including density, linear viscosity (sp?), etc.

DOWNLOAD LINK: http://walaber.dbspot.com/ndb/buoyancy.exe - self extracting RAR (with proper directory structure for those who asked for it )

this feature should also be in the next version of the wrapper.

Go Go Gadget DBPRO!

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Cpt Caveman
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Posted: 22nd Jun 2004 09:24
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Very nice, some blocks rotate a bit in the liquid though, Im not sure how multiple blocks dropped in liquid is meant to act. Also the brick wall texture makes me think the blocks should all sink to the bottom
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walaber
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Posted: 22nd Jun 2004 09:54
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hehehe... the texture was in my Newton projects directory, so that's why it got used.

The behavior of the blocks depend heavily on the density (size vs. mass) of the object (of course) ... the program generates the blocks with many random factors, so some are way too light for their size, while others are overly heavy... I think this is why some blocks are too "spinny". also the settings for the fluid (viscosity, density, etc) play a big part. I just started messing with it today, but I'm already excited about the possibilities! So far as I know, Newton is the only free physics engine out there that supports buoyancy. you could use it to make rafts / boats, and even other things like hot-air ballons, zepplins etc!

starting with my "Ragdoll Monkey Bowling", I am thinking about making a set of 3-5 mini-games with Newton, to sort of show it off in an entertaining way. Once they're all done, I'm thinking about releasing them in a pack, with the source code for each included. I think that would be a good way to allow me to play with the wrapper while simultaneously testing it for bugs/problems. plus it might help people understand how they can use physics in their games.

Go Go Gadget DBPRO!

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Cpt Caveman
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Posted: 22nd Jun 2004 10:23
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One thing I really liked in the Halflife2 tech demo last year was the matress on top of the floating barrel, with the weight of the matress submerging the barrel slightly aswell as the matress floating on the water. Would that be possible with what youve seen so far??
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walaber
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Posted: 22nd Jun 2004 12:49
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absolutely. you could build a raft out of barrels and planks if you wanted to, all connected together by breakable joints. in fact, I'm thinking my next mini-game will involve piloting a raft through water

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 22nd Jun 2004 21:33
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Rough T.O.A of the next release? Been having some fun with the ease of use with this physics engine recently.
So I'm looking forward to seeing the updates made.

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walaber
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Posted: 23rd Jun 2004 13:14
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looking at the end of the month. I'm waiting for the latest patch of the SDK to be released before I release a new wrapper version... Apparently it will be ready by the end of the month, but it could always be a little late. Plus I will need a little time to get all of the new features wrapped... assuming no problems there, it shouldn't take me more than a few days after the release of the patch.

so probably very early July.

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Physics coder
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Posted: 24th Jun 2004 08:23
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Wow cool ragdoll demo, just like in UT2004. And nice float/bouyancy demo, would make for some cool surfing or wakeboarding games. I'll be hopping across platforms floating on lava, just like in super mario bros. in no time! Lol

It would be cool if you put a "water" object above ground and hid the object, then what ever in the "water" would float like anti-gravityish, with newton doing all the physics.

Anyways, can't wait to try the new stuff coming in the next version .
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walaber
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Posted: 24th Jun 2004 08:58
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you could make a cool game where players run around and grab ballons, and once they grab enough, they start floating up into the air- trying to be the first to reach some goal up in the sky. then you could add shooting, and by breaking balloons, cause the other players to fall to the ground (with ragdoll physics)

If I get some time today or tomorrow, I'm going to complete the buoyancy features for the wrapper (still need to add some features, and add the documentation). I'm also adding some error-detection to give some feedback to users, which should help with debugging.

I still need to document the ragdoll commands too... and there is still some buginess in the limb rotation.

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walaber
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Posted: 25th Jun 2004 04:25 Edited at: 25th Jun 2004 04:26
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project update

I finally put some error handling into the wrapper. now if you call a function with an undefined body, or other things that might have caused the program to crash (without any error messages), you will get little message boxes like these:


and the program will try to keep running. thie should really help some users trying to debug their programs.

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CattleRustler
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Posted: 25th Jun 2004 04:48
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good idea. I have a global error handler in our plugin, I just haven't implemented it yet. Maybe I should get around to that


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walaber
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Posted: 25th Jun 2004 05:02 Edited at: 25th Jun 2004 05:03
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OMG I FIXED THE RAGDOLL ROTATION PROBLEM!!!!

sorry about the the all-caps, but DAMN I'm excited! I was totally stumped on how to fix the ragdoll rotation problem (sometimes joints would twist in strange ways)... but I gave it some thought, tried the solution, and BAM!!! working great!!!!!! yes!!



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CattleRustler
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Posted: 25th Jun 2004 06:05
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cool - wheres the new dll?


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walaber
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Posted: 25th Jun 2004 08:14
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the ragdoll functionality (seen in the demo posted in this thread as well as Ragdoll Monkey Bowling) isn't really in the wrapper yet.

it will be available in the next release, along with documentation, examples, and a tutorial. should be released sometime around the end of the month / early July.

Go Go Gadget DBPRO!

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DEANO
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Posted: 26th Jun 2004 01:21
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walaber, you should set yourself up a paypal donation button on you web site. All the fine work you've done on this wrapper should be rewarded.

I'll personally send you the "Beer and burger donation" that I sent to wolf. Don't short change yourself this great work!!

DEANO

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Cpt Caveman
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Posted: 26th Jun 2004 09:35 Edited at: 26th Jun 2004 09:36
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Walaber, Ive got hinge limits and motorised hinges going, except theres one more thing. When the hinge reaches its max/min limit the door bounces back and forth until it comes to a stop. It bounces no matter how fast the acceleration is. How can I make fast acceleration but have no bouncing at the hinge limits, can it be done??
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walaber
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Posted: 26th Jun 2004 10:11
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Elemenop - yup, that because that's what would really happen. try throwing a car door upen really hard. when it reaches it's limit, it bounces back. although this seems a little annoying (especially if you don't want it to happen), it shows how realistic and accurate the physics engine is.

in order to keep the door from bouncing, you need to slow down the door smoothly right before it hits it's limit. You'll notice most mechanized doors already do this (like sliding doors at a supermarket). You simply need to find the distance, and as it approaches the limit, apply some kind of damper to the acceleration, so it slows down and stops exactly at the limit.

there is also an in-depht discussion of this and other issues with motorized doors on the Newton forum here:
http://www.physicsengine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=382
...the source code is all in C/C++, but the concepts of course apply.

I'm excited to see what you're working on, you keep asking interesting questions

Go Go Gadget DBPRO!

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Lampton Worm
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Posted: 26th Jun 2004 14:02
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Hi Walaber - this all looks and sounds great, I just downloaded V1.23, and demo 1 compiles and runs. But when I quit I get...

DEMO1 caused an invalid page fault in
module NEWTON.DLL at 0167:0243f092.

...I'm running DBP 5.2, Windows 98 SE, 256MB RAM, 1.2GHz, GeForce3 Ti200... I followed the instructions in the readme by the way,

Any ideas?
Thanks in advance!
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walaber
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Posted: 26th Jun 2004 15:30
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Lampton - I don't have Win98, so I imagine it's something related to that... I'll see if I can recreate the error on my machine though...


COOL LITTLE DEMO
Check out this little demo of walking machines I made this afternoon!! there are 10 of them that try to walk around... But I don't think I designed it too well, because most of them aren't very successful



The source code is in the "source" button, I don't think I used any new (unreleased) commands, so anyone with v1.23 should be able to compile it themselves. you'll need the "floor1.bmp" file that comes with the wrapper as well. Try messing around with the machine scale and mass elements for interesting results!

EXE DOWNLOAD:
http://walaber.dbspot.com/misc/walker.rar

Newton is just too fun

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walaber
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Posted: 26th Jun 2004 15:32
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as usual forgot to actually paste the source in... here it is in this post (source button below)

Go Go Gadget DBPRO!

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Lampton Worm
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Posted: 26th Jun 2004 17:36
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Hi,

@Walaber, just so ya know, it does it anytime I do anything with the newton .dll, I tried some more demos, and downloaded your rag doll and monkey exe's, they both exited with the same or similar error.

That monkey game is quality though

Thanks!
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walaber
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Posted: 26th Jun 2004 19:43
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can anyone else with Win98 recreate this error??

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walaber
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Posted: 27th Jun 2004 05:41
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here's another version of the walker code, with one giant walker thrown in for fun.

plus the cogs are linked together now, so they walk a little better.




source in the source button below!

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Cpt Caveman
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Posted: 27th Jun 2004 06:20
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Cool new demo,

Have you tried your older demos with the new upgrade 5.4, in demo 5 it says "Constant name 'SHOOT' cannot share the name of a reserved word or command", and demo 2 still drops back to the editor for me.
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Physics coder
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Posted: 27th Jun 2004 07:40
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cool walkers

-----------------------------------
To delete the bug, delete the code.
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Cpt Caveman
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Posted: 27th Jun 2004 13:05
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Walaber is there any way to set the pivot point for the NDB_NewtonBodySetOmega command??

Unfortunately with what Im trying to do, the a motorised hinge moves to slow (well I mean it accelerates to slow), I want it to move real quick, like a flipper for a pinball machine would rotate for example.
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walaber
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Posted: 27th Jun 2004 15:02 Edited at: 27th Jun 2004 15:04
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Elemenop no, the center of mass for the body is the pivot for the SetOmega command. you can offset the pivot point by creating an offset matrix when you create the collision data. for example, let's say you want to make a flipper, which is a box of dimensions (sx#,sy#,sz#) and you want the pivot point on the left edge. you need to define the box with an offset so that it's left edge is sitting at the origin. here's the code:

NDB_SetMatrixIdentityMatrix
NDB_SetVector sx#/2.0, 0.0, 0.0
NDB_SetMatrixPosRow
(this sets up the offset matrix)
col = NDB_NewtonCreateBox(sx#, sy#, sz#, 1) <- the extra "1" is a flag that means "use the temp matrix as the offset matrix for this body"

...and that's it! now you have a rigid body with a center of mass (origin) on one edge! setting the Omega should now produce rotation around this point.

p.s. remember if you are using a dbpro primitive object for this rigid body, you will need to offset the pivot point of the object as well. I often use the "offset limb objnum, 0, x, y, z" command, it works well.

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walaber
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Posted: 27th Jun 2004 15:06
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p.s. a few other options would be to have a hinge, but apply an impulse to the body, that'll get it moving quick

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Juso
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Posted: 27th Jun 2004 22:22 Edited at: 27th Jun 2004 22:25
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Lampton.. and Walaber, I get that Page fault error every time after quitting demo or project with newton. And I have win98 too, so it have to be win98 behaviour.

But the Walker is most fun, I got one walker upside down and it started to move very quickly having legs towards the sky and then it falled over the edge

Here it goes:

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zircher
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Posted: 30th Jun 2004 06:54
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I'll be greedy here and ask. As time permits, can you create a Ragdoll Kung-fu puppet demo control system? I'd like to see something where monkey boy can be dragged around by the user and have enough of a backbone to stand on his own. Something to the point where you could walk him up to the pins and then you could drag assorted limbs and make the monkey scatter the pins.
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walaber
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Posted: 30th Jun 2004 09:07
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wow Zircher, that's a pretty tall order. but unfortunately, until Newton releases a patch with some promised ragdoll upgrades, I'm afraid it just isn't possible right now.

The current version of Newton doesn't have that much control over ragdolls yet. But the system you describe has been described as one of the main features intended for inclusion in the SDK, so it's only a matter of time.

project update - There has been a delay announced on the Newton forums, so the next patch of the SDK won't be released at the end of the month as previously mentioned. Which means the next version of the wrapper will also be delayed. I'll post details as soon as I have them.

Go Go Gadget DBPRO!

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walaber
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Posted: 30th Jun 2004 13:28
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ragdoll beta testers wanted

I'm looking for someone willing to beta test my ragdoll commands for me.

Basically I want someone to make a little ragdoll demo with their own model, to help confirm the system is bug-free, and easy to understand. Please reply with an e-mail to me. I'll send you a beta version of the wrapper (with the ragdoll commands), and the ragdoll tutorial. In return I ask that you make a simple demo featuring your own completely custom ragdoll, and inform me of any problems you have in the process.

the next patch has been delayed, so I'd like to use the time to make sure the ragdoll system is working great.

anyone interested (serious people only) please e-mail me.

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zircher
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Posted: 1st Jul 2004 04:42
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I'll put my name in the hat, but I hope I'm not the only one. I'm fairly slow as DBP developers go (being married with children will do that.) I have a theory I want to test out for rag dolls with variable bouyancy heads and limbs. If that can be made to work, it might be the first step in the puppet system that I envision.

Has anyone played Madness? I've love to see a 3D ragdoll version of that.
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Chenak
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Posted: 1st Jul 2004 08:02
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ooo... i'd like to try out too i've got a few skinned models to test it out with

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walaber
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Posted: 1st Jul 2004 19:36 Edited at: 1st Jul 2004 19:37
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several people have been nice enough to send me e-mails, so I have a few beta testers for the ragdoll system now.

hopefully we'll see some user-made ragdoll demos in the next few days!! (assuming all goes well)

I'm personally at work on Ragdoll Monkey Bowling, making it into a complete game! should be pretty cool when it's done

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zircher
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Posted: 1st Jul 2004 23:47 Edited at: 1st Jul 2004 23:48
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I started work on a model following your instructions. Fortunately, I have registered versions of Milkshape 3D and CharacterFX so I was already good to go there. So far, the instructions have been rock solid and even though I have not used CharacterFX before, it is going smoothly.

My only complaint so far is that you did not include any instructions on where to place the DLL, keyword, and help files. I got it right the first try, but that might have been a fluke. A new user to DBP might get lost on that part.
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History did not begin with PONG. -- Greg Costikyan

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