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Program Announcements / Newton Physics SDK running in DBPro!

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Neil19533
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Posted: 15th May 2004 23:50 Edited at: 15th May 2004 23:51
i got some code to work and have set up a floor that a ball falls onto. how would i rotate the collision data so when i rotated the floor the col data rotates

Any spelling mistakes are totally In tensional.
Neil19533
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Posted: 20th May 2004 02:46 Edited at: 20th May 2004 02:48
I worked it out previouse post. And it was proberly my object as it was made in cshop which dosent export the normals.

Would it be possible if you could change the names of the commands so they are easier to remember instead of having all that 'NDB_' stuff. Also would it be possible to make the commands so they affect the collision data by using numbers such as:
colposition colnumber,x,y,z
or
colrotate colnum,x,y,z

or something along those lines?

Any spelling mistakes are totally In tensional.
Everwhat Studios
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Posted: 21st May 2004 16:41 Edited at: 21st May 2004 16:42
Walaber this is very cool

Just downlaoded and tried all the demos, its impressive stuff. Instantly made me wanna make a Marble madness style game. And a Monkey ball style game. And a Pool game. And a Skittles game. And a ... *drivels on, lets just say this is inspiring* )

For now, I'll try not to get distracted, and stick to what this can do for Deathbed. It'd be great if I could somehow incorporate physics into deathbed, for shooting around boxes for example. Or bouncing projectiles. Or ragdoll enemies. Or... *gets exited then faints*

Looking at the code, wow this seems simple to use, but is also full of completely foreign concepts to me, I've never used a physics engine before, more faked my owm Sure I'll get to grips with it eventually though.

Being that DeathBed will eventually be a commercial game, do you mind me using it? Obviously I will put credit to you and the Newton guys in the product

The forum user formerly known as Kangaroo2.
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hmm
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Posted: 22nd May 2004 01:50
I've just started work on a pool game. Wont post any stuff here (I'll start a new thread), but it was so easy to do, and works really well.

Just wandering, when you distribute a free game made with Newton, do you have to package the official Newton SDK for installation on everyone's computer?

coincidence? how about pure cosmic convergence!
zircher
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Posted: 22nd May 2004 03:20 Edited at: 22nd May 2004 04:15
Neil19533, that "NDB_ stuff" is what saves your ass when you have multiple APIs each trying to use the same command. It's there for a reason and that reason is not to make your life more difficult.
--
TAZ

FYI, with Newton, EZRotate, Tokamak, Wolf's new physics system, TGC's proposed system, the Nuclear Glory Collision DLL, and others. There is plenty of chances for a duplicate name showing up. Using prefixes is actually a simple solution to that problem and aids in troubleshooting.

History did not begin with PONG. -- Greg Costikyan

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Everwhat Studios
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Posted: 23rd May 2004 23:44
Trying to get the physics working for use with my HOG vehicle in Deathbed. Having trouble, but then like I said I've never used any kind of real physics before. Strongly resisting the urge to ask for help, as with Deathbed I want to have done everything myself Any example files other than the ones included that might help me?

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hmm
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Posted: 24th May 2004 15:00
I think if you want vehicle physics, you may need to wait for the Newton update with special vehicle commands (see their website)

coincidence? how about pure cosmic convergence!
Everwhat Studios
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Posted: 24th May 2004 23:58
Thanks, but I thought what I wanted to do would have been possible using a cube. I'm having considerable trouble though, so possibly not, but I think it might just be me

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walaber
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Posted: 25th May 2004 06:57
sorry I haven't had a chance to respond to some of the questions here... I was out of town and away from the internet for 10 days!

so let's see...

Neil19533 - I'm not sure exactly what you mean about "colposition colnumber,x,y,z" commands... however if you mean using Newton in conjunction with collision commands, that will no longer be necessary in the next release of the wrapper, because it will come with a really cool collision recording system, that will tell you when objects hit each other, their speed when they hit, and give you the normal and tangent vectors for the collision! as for the command prefixes, I think they are worth the extra typing, because it makes it really obvious that the command is a Newton wrapper command. also, all commands that start with NDB_Newton are actual commands in the Newton SDK, and commands that just start with NDB_ are my own commands added to make the system more useful.

Everwhat Studios - I'd love to help you get Newton into Deathbed! You can do some really fun stuff in FPS's with physics... and with Newton you can add cool stacked box effects a-la HL2 with minimal difficulty. If you are still having problems getting started, please post here or send me an e-mail, I'd love to help you out in any way I can. By the way the new version of the wrapper will be out soon (probably later this week), and will have LOTS of new stuff, so you might want to hold off until it's released to get too into it.

hmm - you don't need to include the SDK with your .exe... right now you just need to include the Newton.dll file with your program. However I've gotten permission from the Newton team to include the .dll into my wrapper .dll, which means the next version of the wrapper should pack Newton directly into your DBPro program, so it will be completely transparent to the end-user. I just have to figure out how to pack the .dll into the wrapper (I'm still a little new to VC++)



NEW VERSION COMING SOON
The new version of the wrapper will see some changes to the interface (nothing major, but will require slight adjustment to existing code) that will make the wrapper much more versatile. Other new inclusions are:
* Collision feedback! gives the speed and location of collision between 2 bodies, as well as the normal/tangent vectors of the collision!
* more joints, including the corkscrew joint, and the upvector joint, useful for characters in first/third person games.
* Joint limits and motorized joints.
* updated demos to work with the new syntax, and demos to show off the new features!

Go Go Gadget DBPRO!

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walaber
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Posted: 25th May 2004 13:07 Edited at: 5th Jun 2004 05:21
got the new version of the wrapper up and running, here are a few preview screenshots:

[edit] screenshots removed [/edit]

the 2nd image shows hinge joints with limits, which are new!

i need to test out all of the new features I added, as well as update the documentation, and I'll be able to release the new version!

Go Go Gadget DBPRO!

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Chenak
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Posted: 25th May 2004 18:43
OMG! tried one of your demos and got 700fps amazing!

any chance your going to implement ragdoll physics?

Once you start down the Dark Path, forever will it dominate your destiny...
Physics coder
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Posted: 25th May 2004 21:29
Cool wrapper, I can't wait for motorized joints
I made a little demo, which started from changing one of the demos included with your wrapper.
The code to the demo is attached. It assumes you have the dll in the same folder and you have textures for floor1.bmp, balltex.bmp, and brick.bmp. Just make random textures for those in a paint prog and save them. In the demo it shows a sphere, which can be moved like a marble, (by accelerating the omega speeds). There is also a pile of bricks, which you can ram into and knock over.

There are 3 functions in it, a make sphere function, so you can make the size, position it, set the mass, whether it's movable, etc. in one line; and a make box function; and an explosion function.
Everwhat Studios
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Posted: 26th May 2004 00:04
Thanks Walaber good to know you're back in town Until you came back I had decided not to continue with my physics testing until I asked you a few questions first. I'll spend a day or so soon trying to get it to work again, to refresh my memory, then I'll drop you an email in a few days to let you know of problems I come accross

New stuff looks great, I see so much potential for the use of such physics in games

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walaber
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Posted: 26th May 2004 05:07 Edited at: 5th Jun 2004 05:23
inferno - you bet! the next version SHOULD have ragdoll support.

Phisics Programmer - nice little demo! by the way, the next update of the wrapper will include a new version of Newton, which is faster when dealing with stacked objects!

Everwhat - cool, let me know what you have trouble with!

[edit] - screenshot removed [/edit]

[edit] - note that this demo was locked at 60fps, which always ends up as 49fps on my system [/edit]

Go Go Gadget DBPRO!

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Physics coder
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Posted: 26th May 2004 08:21
Cool, I can't wait for the version of the wrapper in your screen shots, umm version 1.23000001907, lol.
Is there a way to set friction to joints?

I had fun making another mini demo, this time the make box and make sphere functions automatically set the moments of inertia for the object using the equations on the website: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_moments_of_inertia>.
In this mini demo the camera follows like in super monkey ball. There are also 3 cars in the mini demo, well, more like pushable carts cuz the wheels aren't motorized - yet. It uses the hinge joints to connect 4 balls to a box.

Is there a way to use models as the collision data for the wheels? I read about NDB_NewtonCreateTreeCollision command but it sets the mass to infinity.
walaber
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Posted: 26th May 2004 09:26
Phisics programmer - no, unfortunately you can't have active bodies made from meshes. All mesh-based bodies have a mass of infinity. However, the next version of Newton (the SDK, not the wrapper) will have several new primitives available including conics, and cylinders.
by the way, the next release of the Wrapper will have functions built-in to calculate the moments of inertia for basic shapes, you simply plug in the mass and size, and you're all set.


Eventually Newton will also feature an advanced feature set for wheeled vehicles, which should make making racing / rally games possible.

I'll give your new demo a go when I get home (I'm at work now)!

Go Go Gadget DBPRO!

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Everwhat Studios
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Posted: 26th May 2004 17:29
This looks great, I think I may wait for the new version as you suggested. Definitely looking forward to using it though

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walaber
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Posted: 27th May 2004 06:46
For those interested, I've got the docs all up to date, and the new version is coming along nicely. I just want to add ragdoll functionality before I release it. depending on how difficuly that is, The next version will probably be out within a week or two. If the Newton SDK gets an upgrade in that time (highly possible), I'll add the new functionality as well before releasing.

I tested out motorized joints this morning, they work great (you can even have motorized joints WITH limits )

Go Go Gadget DBPRO!

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Cpt Caveman
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Posted: 27th May 2004 09:35
I can't wait, it sounds awesome As long as there's lots of examples of the new functions like your previous releases I'll be even more happier.
walaber
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Posted: 27th May 2004 10:27 Edited at: 27th May 2004 10:27
there will be about 8 total demos... here's what I'm thinking so far:

demo01 - simple ball physics - Just a ball and a floor, as simple as possible for beginners to get used to setting up Newton. *done

demo02 - linked joints with limits - Seen in the screenshot above. Simple chain made of hinge joints, with joint limits in place. Easy to understand, and really fun to play with.*done

demo03 - simple mesh collision - similar to the mesh collision in the current version, but with a new waterslide-like model for variety. (see screenshot above as well) *done

demo04 - collision detection superballs - mesh background room with balls inside. Using the new collision detection features, I apply an impulse to the balls when they hit the room walls, so they appear to be VERY bouncy, like rubber superballs. Shows how to use the collision feedback system, and how to use impulses. *done

demo05 - joints galore - cool demo featuring most available joints (ball/socket, hinge, slider, corkscrew). Also shows how to implement joints with limits, motorization, and both.

demo06 - force/torque and autoactivate callbacks - this demo shows how to customize forces acting on objects (like the zero-g demo in the current version), as well as a new system to detect if an object is active or not.

demo07 - ragdoll demo - a simple ragdoll demo, featuring ragdolls made from indiviual objects as well as a boned-mesh. Will probably feature some stairs / breakable walls, etc.

demo08 - hovercraft demo - the final demo, showing how to make a simple hovercraft completely with the Newton system. This will also show how to make use of the RayCast commands for determining hovercraft forces.

...and that's all I have planned. I think that should be enough to give a good idea of how to use many of the main features of the wrapper. After this release, I hope to make a full game (albeit a simple one) with Newton, to sort of "show off" what it can do, and how it can be used in games.

then I have a really cool game idea I want to try (with Newton of course)

Go Go Gadget DBPRO!

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Chenak
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Posted: 27th May 2004 11:40
Quote: "demo07 - ragdoll demo - a simple ragdoll demo, featuring ragdolls made from indiviual objects as well as a boned-mesh. Will probably feature some stairs / breakable walls, etc."


Yay!! I may have a few bone-mesh objects that you can test out the ragdoll physics with if you want, just say the word

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walaber
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Posted: 27th May 2004 12:19
inferno - that would be nice, I'd like to test it with at least a few different models before I release it... and I have only one boned-mech model that I've made (for snowball fight) myself... if you want, just e-mail them to me (button below)

I'll probably get going on the ragdoll system in the next few days (it's already in the wrapper, just needs a little adjusting and testing)

Go Go Gadget DBPRO!

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walaber
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Posted: 27th May 2004 15:38 Edited at: 5th Jun 2004 05:24
Phisics programmer made a cool demo a few posts up, I finally got around to trying it today (the 2nd one)... I had so much fun I decided to slap up some screenshots of it for those who haven't tried it.

[edit]screenshot removed[/edit]

exploding the cars into the wall is ridiculously fun

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Chenak
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Posted: 27th May 2004 15:55
sent you the link to the file, its the only model i can find that works atm

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Physics coder
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Posted: 28th May 2004 02:48
Lol, now there's screens of that little demo I put together. Anyways, I had a go at making a pendulum, and put that in this demo(in the attached dba file). I also had fun trying to make bridges, and made a function that makes a bridge. If anyone cares, here's what the parameters of the bridge function mean. The bridge function is:

start_num - the first object the function should use for the first link of the bridge
x1#,y1#,z1# - the x,y and z values of the start of the bridge
x2#,y2#,z2# - the x,y and z values of the end of the bridge
width# - the width of the bridge
height# - the height (or y size) of each link of the bridge
sections - the number of links in the bridge, more than 2 links is recommended
mass_per_link# - the mass of each section
group_id - the newton id of the links
freeze - weather or not the brigde should autofreeze when it's not moving
texture - the texture used for each block
tip# - the "tippiness" of the bridge, standard value is 1.0, the greater the tip# variable is, the more tippy the bridge gets when you walk on it.
With the pendulum, you can "push" it by pressing the explode button while riding it.
I can't wait for the next version
walaber
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Posted: 28th May 2004 06:54 Edited at: 28th May 2004 06:57
Phisics Programmerdamn, I always see these cool new messages while I'm at work

damn time zones! damn them!

anyway, I'll check it out when I get home! Phisics programmer - your demos are really impressive so far, I can't wait to see what you do when you get your hands on the new version which, by the way, is coming along nicely. I'm working on the 5th demo right now, it's almost done, and has about 35 different joints in it, some with motors, some with limits, some with both

Inferno got your message, cool model! I'd like to see her fall down a flight of stairs into a stack of boxes

Go Go Gadget DBPRO!

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mm0zct
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Posted: 29th May 2004 04:04 Edited at: 29th May 2004 04:09
quick question: can newton do collision for the camera or would i have to use a sphere for collision and position the cameraat the sphere?

edit this might seem a stupid question but it's 1:10am here and i'm too tired to think properly
@everwhat studios: using this system for grenades in your fps would be cool, for bouncing round corners etc, just an idea, i know it's probably the wrong thread

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walaber
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Posted: 29th May 2004 14:51 Edited at: 5th Jun 2004 05:24
mm0zct - no there's no built in camera-collision. you'de have to make a body (probably a sphere) to represent the camera.

project update - got all of the joints working great. here's a screenshot from the demo05 "joints galore" which will be in the next release.

[edit]screenshot removed[/edit]

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ReD_eYe
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Posted: 29th May 2004 16:10
first off, congrats on this, its fantabulous!
secondly, did you find what the problem was with NDB_NewtonCreateTreeCollision? the model i'm trying to use doesn't work, but some people seem to of had some sucess, why???

walaber
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Posted: 29th May 2004 18:18
in what way does it not work? does the program crash, or are there spots in the model that objects fall through?

either way, the bug in Newton (objects could fall through parts of the mesh) has been fixed, and the new version should work great. you should know, however, that the collision tree objects ONLY collide with the NORMAL side of a polygon... in other words, if you have the normal facing the wrong way, no collision is detected. so you can't have a single-polygon for a 2-sided wall.

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ReD_eYe
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Posted: 29th May 2004 22:38
the program crashes on the NDB_NewtonCreateTreeCollision command, i'm trying to use a .x mesh generated by T2(http://www.petra.demon.co.uk/Games/texgen.html) , if there are no normals on an object could that cause it to crash? I'm not sure if this is the case for my model but its a possibility.

Chenak
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Posted: 30th May 2004 04:50
I think i've found the problem, if the model has more than one limb then it just doesnt work . It crashes while loading with no error

Quote: "if there are no normals on an object could that cause it to crash?"


If there are no normals then the object won't exist

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Physics coder
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Posted: 30th May 2004 05:04
Any idea when you could release the next version of the wrapper?
walaber
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Posted: 30th May 2004 05:27
ReD_eYe / Inferno - interesting... I've never tried it on an object with multiple limbs come to think of it... although in theory it should work. I'll look into it!

Phisics Programmer - It's almost ready. I just need to finish up the demos (and in doing so test for any major bugs)... if you'd like I can send you a pre-release version, perhaps you could help me find any bugs / problems with the system? send me an e-mail if you want to talk about it.


I'm currently working on the Ragdoll demo... run into a little snag, but I'm sure I'll get it working. I should have a few solid hours to work on it tomorrow, so maybe I'll have some screenshots or something then.

Go Go Gadget DBPRO!

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ReD_eYe
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Posted: 30th May 2004 15:17 Edited at: 30th May 2004 15:18
Ah well, multiscape landscapes work, so its all ok.
Could someone do a quick demo on how to make a box drive around in Newton? Using the up+down keys to acclerate and reverse and the left and right keys to turn it. So driving a box around a plain, smashing into other boxes would be nice
I've spent most of the morning trying myself but i just can't get it.

thanks

walaber
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Posted: 31st May 2004 09:12
i hope you aren't going to try to make a vehicle... because a box will not work right. if it hits a bump it will flip, and the friction would be the same both sideways and forwards... so it'd be a really slippery ride


I've run into a small problem with ragdolls... Character FX just won't run now, it gives me an error and quits every time I run it... and I need a reliable boned-mesh .x exporter to thoroughly test/debug the ragdolls. I've sent an email asking for support, hopefully the problem will be fixed soon. As a result, I think I'll release a version without ragdoll support in the meantime, as the current (unreleased) version is so much better than the existing version. I'll try to get it released sometime this week. it's pretty much ready.

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ReD_eYe
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Posted: 31st May 2004 10:38
Quote: "i hope you aren't going to try to make a vehicle..."

That was the plan
Is it not possible to get any form of vehicles working in newton then?

walaber
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Posted: 31st May 2004 11:15
well... it is and it isn't. you can sort of jerry-rig a vehicle right now with spheres for wheels and joints to handle steering and axels... but this is not a very good way to make a vehicle...

according to the creators of Newton, they actually have a few more joint types built into the engine right now, but they've made them unavailable because you could make vehicles with them. Why would they stop people from making vehicles? apparently because using the current joint system is a big work-around, and introduces lots of problems when you try to get a vehicle moving at high speeds. However the newton team has recognized this, and is adding a special system just for making vehicles. I think they are waiting to reveal the new joint types until the vehicle container is complete. This conatiner will be specially designed for all kinds of wheeled vehicles, and should be pretty amazing.

So in other words, the Newton creators are trying to keep people from making vehicles right now, because they won't work very well, and are more trouble than they are worth. But they're working on a solution that sounds really cool.

however if you absolutely can't wait, the next release of the wrapper has motorized joints, and you can make a simple car / cart if you feel so inclined

Go Go Gadget DBPRO!

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ReD_eYe
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Posted: 31st May 2004 11:59
ah, i spose i'll just have to wait

mm0zct
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Posted: 1st Jun 2004 00:40
i was trying to alter the demo where you throw the balls onto the mesh from the camea so it was more like a metal grenade, bouncier and faster but i noticed that they will only fall up to a certain speed, surely the gravity in the physics dll would contnue to accelerate or have a way to set the terminal velocity because my "grenades" appear more like polystyrene balls in air, they are floating down instead of falling, any ideas anyone?
i got it bouncier and less sticky though, but can't make it faster

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ReD_eYe
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Posted: 1st Jun 2004 00:48
have you tried increasing the gravity?

Chenak
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Posted: 1st Jun 2004 04:26
If you are having problems with character fx, try uninstalling and reinstalling it again... i believe i had a problem similar to this at some point. Good luck getting in contact with the CFX creator ... he's been gone for a long time and thus providing no support

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Ian T
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Posted: 1st Jun 2004 18:46
Weeee -- hundreds of textured crates bouncing around a landscape I made in Bryce . Very crate-like too... cool !

walaber
21
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Joined: 22nd Oct 2003
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posted: 1st Jun 2004 23:28
I actually got a response from the Character FX developer!

hopefully I'll get it working... either way I'm releasing a version without ragdolls first. should be out within 48 hours...

there should be about 7 demo programs included.

Go Go Gadget DBPRO!

Athlon XP 2400+ || DDR-SDRAM 1GB || Nvidia GeForce 4 Ti4200 AGP 8x 128MB
walaber
21
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Joined: 22nd Oct 2003
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posted: 2nd Jun 2004 07:31
well that didn't work... dammit. I think I might need to completely reformat my system... but all of my other programs are running so well right now, I don't want to mess with it. I guess I'll just have to live without CharacterFX for a while

I hope to release the new version of the wrapper tomorrow (Japan time).
the amount of demos included depends on how much time I get tomorrow morning to work on it.

Go Go Gadget DBPRO!

Athlon XP 2400+ || DDR-SDRAM 1GB || Nvidia GeForce 4 Ti4200 AGP 8x 128MB
Ian T
22
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Joined: 12th Sep 2002
Location: Around
Posted: 3rd Jun 2004 00:23
I made a kind of Newton game/showcase ... http://www.dbspot.com/darkmouse/Newton-Test.exe

You can make wooden and plastic orbs and wooden and metal crates. I'm still fine-tuning their mass and friction settings but I think I've got them working fairly well . Any comments would be appreciated.

walaber
21
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Joined: 22nd Oct 2003
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posted: 3rd Jun 2004 05:03 Edited at: 3rd Jun 2004 07:47
VERSION 1.23 RELEASED!!!

The new version of the Newton wrapper has been released on my website at http://walaber.dbspot.com. There have been many changes and improvements to the wrapper, please go download the new version now

BIG CHANGES:
Full joint support with limits / motors!
New Corkscrew joint type
Collision feedback system
Improved Rigid Body / DBPro object interface
Keywords file for command hilighting in the editor
Full documentation of every command, accesible from the editor through keywords file.

SCREENSHOTS:



BIG IMAGES (CLICK):
http://walaber.dbspot.com/ndb/demo01.jpg
http://walaber.dbspot.com/ndb/demo02.jpg
http://walaber.dbspot.com/ndb/demo03.jpg
http://walaber.dbspot.com/ndb/demo04.jpg
http://walaber.dbspot.com/ndb/demo05.jpg
http://walaber.dbspot.com/ndb/demo06.jpg


DIRECT DOWNLOAD LINK
http://walaber.dbspot.com/ndb/NDBv_123.exe - self extracting RAR, includes Wrapper DLL, docs, Newton.dll, 6 demo source programs, media for demos.

you can download individual .exes for each demo from the website as well.

Go Go Gadget DBPRO!

Athlon XP 2400+ || DDR-SDRAM 1GB || Nvidia GeForce 4 Ti4200 AGP 8x 128MB
Cpt Caveman
22
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Joined: 29th Aug 2002
Location: New Zealand
Posted: 3rd Jun 2004 09:32
Cool,

Demo 2 drops me back to the editor, the others work fine though, except with demo 3, the keys adjusting size and mass are back to front

Very cool though:0
walaber
21
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Joined: 22nd Oct 2003
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posted: 3rd Jun 2004 09:57
Elemenop - thanks for the input... try putting a "suspend for key" command at an increasingly lower point in the source, to try and determine where the program crashes back to the editor, that'd help me out a bunch.

that's strange, I fixed the backwards keys in demo 03, perhaps I somehow included an older version of the file...

Go Go Gadget DBPRO!

Athlon XP 2400+ || DDR-SDRAM 1GB || Nvidia GeForce 4 Ti4200 AGP 8x 128MB
Cpt Caveman
22
Years of Service
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Joined: 29th Aug 2002
Location: New Zealand
Posted: 3rd Jun 2004 12:06
Floor = NDB_NewtonCreateBody(col) is the command that causes it to drop back to the editor

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