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NVIDIA Competition 2008 / Mike Inel's Entry

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valleyman86
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Posted: 21st Jan 2007 01:28
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Quote: "17 FPS will always be smooth, the rates that the human eye catches at that will be smooth is 15-60 FPS, so between those you'll have a smooth running game. I get 10-30 FPS on my low spec playing Doom 3, when it's at 10 or when it has a massive lag, it is still playable just a little frustrating, , but I've killed plenty of Hellish monsters on there just fine.

When I did try the demo, it was very smooth."


17 fps is not smooth. I can't stand a game at 17 fps. I have to have at least 35-40 or I won't (can't) play it. I do notice it btw. Things jump and don't run smoothly. Makes it harder than hell to play. But I been looking forward to mikes game. It looks badass (like final fantasy style). I hope it is as cool as it looks.
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Belseth
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Posted: 21st Jan 2007 07:02
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A little info on frame rates. I come out of film so I'm more familiar with the effects in film and video but the results are similar. 24 frames may be film standard but it does strobe with action and with even modest panning. The strobe really annoys me personally with panning in films. If you are going to video for the final product you can avoid most of the trouble by going to 30 frame crystals in your film camera. Before video cameras got interesting I did research using 30 fps crystals for that reason. 30 fps is a pretty good minimum to shoot for. There's lots of talk about what the eye can percieve but the truth is it has more to do with the frame to frame change. On the first feature I shot we used Betacam. There was supposed to be a high speed explosion of a model but the producer didn't want to flip for the varricam or high speed film camera. On the day I tried to convince him not to bother and we'd do it in post. He insisted claiming he'd seen video slo mo done before so I shut my mouth and let them do it. Well there was exactly one frame of explosion, first it was there then it was basically gone. There was nothing to multiply to slow down. kind of that way with action. That's assuming it's trying to skip frames. The real problem with games is they tend to try to display at 30 frames and simply slowdown the response so it's all happening in slow but jerky motion. If you want smooth shoot between 30 to 60 frames. Anything below 15 frames with most engines there really isn't any gameplay. Personally I wish there was a way to adjust the actual display rate in games. I'd rather see 15 or even 10 frames actual so the game could still be played than at 30 slo mo jerky. First time I had that bad was with AVP. My P-350 I had at the time choked when you got more than two aliens on the screen at once. Gameplay was pure guesswork. It never played smooth until I got a 1 gig machine.

PS kind of a cool thing if you didn't know related to frame rates. On Braveheart Mel Gibson shot the battle scenes at 26 FPS to slow the shots slightly to add to the feeling of mass when they fought. If you want to convey large size or mass slow your animations down. For undersized characters it often helps to speed them up a bit. Just multiply based on scale. Say a human has a one second walk cycle if your character is 12' tall make a 2 second cycle. A 60' character would have a ten second cycle. It makes a huge difference. Same for a death cycle. Say a human takes one second to fall a 60' character will take 10 second to fall since his head is roughly 60' in the air and must fall that far. It's common sense but even the biggest studios often fail to take that into account causing a lot of bad looking CG.
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 21st Jan 2007 15:46
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Quote: "17 fps is not smooth. I can't stand a game at 17 fps. I have to have at least 35-40 or I won't (can't) play it. I do notice it btw. Things jump and don't run smoothly. Makes it harder than hell to play. But I been looking forward to mikes game. It looks badass (like final fantasy style). I hope it is as cool as it looks."


Scientifically speaking it is, non smoothness may be related else where, I don't get a smooth Doom 3 because it lags, but when it is around 17 fps all of the time it is smooth.

Click Me! Dolphins aren't Mammals, they're lizards.
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Bizar Guy
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Posted: 21st Jan 2007 16:21
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17 will appear to be moving, because it's at a point where the still images are passing by the eye fast enough for it to appear to be moving. However, that does not imply the movement will appear smooth. anyone who uses timers should be able to tell you there's a huge diff in smoothness going from 30 fps to 15, and it has nothing to do with lag.

Even if your mind desides the pictures are moving at around 10 fps or so, you need to have a considerably higher fps for your mind to no longer need to fill in the gaps between frames...

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Mike Inel
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Posted: 25th Jan 2007 11:49 Edited at: 25th Jan 2007 23:10
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Update:

Boss Battle (1-on-1 with Alletine)




Traps (Poison/Confusion/Berserk)

Depth of Field

Enemies and souls

Item menu



Heheh, I just thought images and videos are quite boring, so I uploaded the demo even if it has some bugs and unpolished parts...



[href]http://www.altiz-studio.com/Uploads/IOTT Beta Jan2006.zip[/href]



Note:
There are some tutorials showing up in the game. Unforunately they're still WIP, so I'd like to tell some things that aren't mentioned in the game:

Controls:
W = Up
S = Down
A = Left
D = Right
Spacebar = Jump
Shift = Camera
Q = Menu
E = Magic

Additional Info:
-There are 20 levels in the game.
-On the 20th level, you'll be able to fight Alletine as the boss. Unfortunately she's still WIP, so she can't be defeated in any way.
-When you fell from the ground, you'll return to the starting point.
-The item menu is still WIP, cuz it's quite confusing to use.
-Souls' animations and AI are still WIP.
-There are only 4 types of enemies. Hoping to make it 5...
-Getting the abilities by defeating enemies are still WIP, so I made all the abilities available from the very beginning.
-While on the ground, double click after the first combo to do dash attack.
-While on the ground, double click after the second combo to do million slashes.
-While on mid-air, double click to do dash attack.
-Wall jumping have higher jumping than the double jump.
-The W/B Balance changes whenever you hit an enemy depending on your type of attack (White/Black)
-When the W/B is white full, the player will be in white edge mode, giving you the ability to have a very large sword length.
-When the W/B is black full, the player will be in black edge mode, giving you the ability to ignore the weight of your weapon and become faster and jump higher.
-Press F to enable/disable fast forward. Still WIP.
-Game over is still WIP.
-Sounds of the 1st scenematic is still WIP.
-2nd scenematic is still WIP, and has no sounds.
-Some parts in the game have no sounds. Currently WIP.
-Try to play it until you reach on the battle with Alletine!
-Try to peek on Alletine's........... Sleeves.
-Music by Junkrock!!!


Visual Effects shortcuts:
6 = Screen blur
7 = Shadow (Removing takes time)
8 = Color tone (Some levels have extremebrightness when this is turned on. Currentlt fixing it)
9 = Refraction (Slow when it's turned on)
0 = Depth of field (Slow when it's turned on)
Note: Do not use these shortcuts in scenematics or the game might crash.


Cheats:
H = Full HP
M = Full MP
1 = Full white W/B Balance
2 = Full black W/B Balance
-Throw your weapon using Z. Take it again instantly using Z.


Scenematic additional controls:
W = Fast forward 5x
D = Fast forward 2x
S = Pause
A = Rewind
T = Toggle FPS and Frames


Known issues/bugs:
-Collision (It may never be fixed)
-Color tone sometimes disappear (It may also never be fixed)
-Alletine's blade randomly shows up (Exporting issues)
-Shooting or slashing while being too near with the target doesn't affect the target (Collision issues)


If there are any other bugs around the game, please report here!

Programmers does a big participation in a game, yet they have the least credit.
Portfolio: http://mike-inel.cgsociety.org/gallery/
Website: www.Altiz-Studio.com
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Roxas
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Posted: 25th Jan 2007 13:05
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NOOOO I Got a Windows error report ;( I cant live anymore

I have no soul.. I nobody.. I have no heart.. I have felt in the darkness.. Im the darkness.. Whatever..
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TEH_CODERER
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Posted: 25th Jan 2007 16:52
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Yay yay yay yay yay! Downloading!

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Roxas
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Posted: 25th Jan 2007 16:55
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Aww dont tease my cuz i cant play

I have no soul.. I nobody.. I have no heart.. I have felt in the darkness.. Im the darkness.. Whatever..
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TEH_CODERER
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Posted: 25th Jan 2007 17:47
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It looks absolutely awesome; sorry The Full Metal Coder Roxas!
However, it made my computer crash after I completed level 3 but then my PC is awful!

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eek
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Posted: 25th Jan 2007 20:10
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I also got a crash after the third level. My PC is fairly good, so I don't know what the problem is. Excellent job on what I've seen so far, probably the best in DBP I've seen.
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Neptune
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Posted: 25th Jan 2007 20:37
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After I click new game it says loading and then after 4secs it crashes

My spec:
AMD X2 4400
Corsair 2 Gb DDR2 SLI Memory
Geforce 7950 GX2
Asus crossfire mobo
X-Fi Fatality sound card

Shame, as this is looking hot!!
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charita sk8
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Posted: 25th Jan 2007 21:57
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Damn good work there Mike!!!
i have no problems so far running the game
although i do have a little problem,
everything is great so far but i want to know
if this is the final control configuration youll make??
i mean, controls feel a little dorky from time to time
specialy the camera rotation...

COngratulation for such a great project!
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Mike Inel
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Posted: 25th Jan 2007 22:56
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After level 3 is the 2nd scenematic... Hmmm.... It doesn't crash on my computer, but I guess I have to work on that...
Have anyone tried removing all FX in the options before starting the game? (Blur, tone, refraction, and depth) Cuz I think it always crashes on scenematics with these FX... If that didn't work, oh crap I don't know what to do! (Maybe just lessen the quantity of the particles and lessen the quantity of the blocks for faster loading)

But if anyone wants to skip the crashing part, while in the game (not menu or scenematic), press f1, left directional key (not A), increase the value with up directional key (not W), and press f1 again...

@The Full Metal Coder Roxas: Heheh... Sorry about that...

@charita sk8: Well, I guess it will be final... Are you sure there are no problems like crashing or something?

Programmers does a big participation in a game, yet they have the least credit.
Portfolio: http://mike-inel.cgsociety.org/gallery/
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 25th Jan 2007 23:46
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Phenomenal, I love it, it ran quite well (In terms of working)

I put it at full detail, I got 3 fps in game, so I could cut down on the next run (Perhaps it's the cubes that does it) though, but consider my machine and its not a surprise. It's very well done, I found when in the menu, when the mouse is above it the sounds loop.

Also the stats:

Full Detail
3 FPS in the game
probably 10-20 fps in sequences
Specs:
Windows XP Home SP2
1.5ghz pentium 4
256mb SDRAM
AGP 4x ATI Radeon 9550

and my computer always seems to have a constant performance issue, although much improved for games now.

Click Me! Dolphins aren't Mammals, they're lizards.
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Antidote
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Posted: 26th Jan 2007 03:36
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Please add support for 1280x1024x32 PLEASE. Other than that it's pretty cool. Definitely one of the better DB games out there.


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Mike Inel
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Posted: 26th Jan 2007 11:08
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@Seppuku Arts: 3 FPS??? I never had that slow in this project... But it's good to know that there are no crashes in your computer...
@Antidote: Well, ok... I'll change the 1280x960 to 1280x1024 instead...

Okay, gotta go back working on it...
Btw, I can't make the ending part... Cuz it's pretty complicated and I won't have much time to work on it... (Imagine the whole tower crashing to the ground while all souls are running away from it... Oh hell...) I'll use Junkrock's music to my next project, so I guess I have no other worries...

Programmers does a big participation in a game, yet they have the least credit.
Portfolio: http://mike-inel.cgsociety.org/gallery/
Website: www.Altiz-Studio.com
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Roxas
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Posted: 26th Jan 2007 14:04
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lol icant even get into options cuz its crashes after loading 4 secs

I have no soul.. I nobody.. I have no heart.. I have felt in the darkness.. Im the darkness.. Whatever..
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 26th Jan 2007 14:59
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Quote: "@Seppuku Arts: 3 FPS??? I never had that slow in this project... But it's good to know that there are no crashes in your computer...
"


To be fair, my computer is a pain, so 3FPS is expected. I mean Unreal Tournament 2003 has major lag. Although getting 3fps in the main game, there was only one minute piece of lag in the cut scene. I'll try it properly when I get home without the special effects.

As for the lack of crashes, I cannot understand why people would get them, I found it to be very fluid, so there must be some DBP bug behind it, graphics card or CPU compatibility.

Also, I must say, how did you do those awesome shadows, I think they are good, I pressume there is some texture base on it, but it would be cool to hear about what you did.

Click Me! Dolphins aren't Mammals, they're lizards.
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Alfa x
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Posted: 26th Jan 2007 16:37 Edited at: 26th Jan 2007 16:54
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Hi, very nice game indeed. You are an excelent game developer.

I have some questions.

In wich software did you made your first concepts arts?.
Hand drawing + photoshop?.

And for the previous compo? really good design.
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Mike Inel
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Posted: 26th Jan 2007 22:35
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@The Full Metal Coder Roxas: I wonder why some computers crashes the game... Cuz I tried playing it in our other computer (which is totally slow) and there are no crashes, only 5+ minutes loading time... Hmmmmmm......

@Seppuku Arts: The program will look on all the limbs of the whole model with "Shadow" on their names, then it'll raycast from the direction of the sun to the floor/wall. When it hits, it'll show up a plain with black circular gradient texture and position and rotate it on the collided spot. Here's a pic where all green crosses are the limbs with "Shadow" names:

I hope this helps you...

@Alfa x: Yes, hand drawing + adobe photoshop CS2...

Programmers does a big participation in a game, yet they have the least credit.
Portfolio: http://mike-inel.cgsociety.org/gallery/
Website: www.Altiz-Studio.com
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Mike Inel
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Posted: 27th Jan 2007 03:05
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I just thought maybe I could tell everyone about my new blog...
http://altiz-studio.com/Mike/
Nothing much in there though... I'm just starting...
Thanks to our webspace provider!

Programmers does a big participation in a game, yet they have the least credit.
Portfolio: http://mike-inel.cgsociety.org/gallery/
Website: www.Altiz-Studio.com
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Agent Dink
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Posted: 27th Jan 2007 23:05
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Amazing graphics, animation, cutscenes, everything! You have some talent. I'm afraid you may have just beat everyone and won the prize

Sometimes the only way over a wall is to pile up enough bodies to climb over - Dave W.
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Spambergo
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Posted: 28th Jan 2007 15:16
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The screenshots look AWESOME, but I tried the demo, and it crashes with a windows error.

The error occurs a few seconds after choosing a resolution... I tried almost all of them, so they aren't the issue. Oh well, looks really nice, shame I can't play it!

My Nvidia Compo Entry - Villain:
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=94427&b=32
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wh1sp3r
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Posted: 29th Jan 2007 17:28
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Eh, I have nothing to say, just amazing... ITs looks like profi games on playstation


PS: Real programmers aren't afraid of math!.
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Junkrock
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Posted: 30th Jan 2007 05:15
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Hey Mike if you win this thing and get a deal to make it a full product u still gunna have me as ur music guy Oh and btw really looking foward to your next project

DaZ

eXus - www.exusband.com
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Mike Inel
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Posted: 30th Jan 2007 05:49
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Sure! Although I still doubt that i'll win... But if that deal happens, i'll have to cancel my next project... (Awwww...)

Programmers does a big participation in a game, yet they have the least credit.
Portfolio: http://mike-inel.cgsociety.org/gallery/
Website: www.Altiz-Studio.com
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Roxas
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Posted: 30th Jan 2007 13:29
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Aww i really want to play this

I have no soul.. I nobody.. I have no heart.. I have felt in the darkness.. Im the darkness.. Whatever..
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BatVink
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Posted: 30th Jan 2007 13:34
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Looks like it could be a really good game, and has enough effects to please Nvidia.

I couldn't manage the direction controls. Firstly, the character walks in a really strange direction (at about 10 degrees off-centre). And I couldn't get the hang of walking towards the camera, and not being able to see what was coing next.



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valleyman86
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Posted: 31st Jan 2007 22:21 Edited at: 31st Jan 2007 22:24
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Amazing. I love it. But like Bat said its difficult to control. I had to control the camera with shift too much. Also when attacking it was hard to aim well. The girl would run through the enemy which btw is sweet but then Im facing the wrong way. And every level should have enemies. Its boring trying to get to the end but fun fighting. Also I have a amd x2 with an ati 1900xt and it crashed when loading the third level. It actually just got stuck on the loading screen it seemed. Also if I press escape to get out of the game no other dark basic game (including yours) works until I change my resolution and then change it back. I get this error "Runtime Error 1513 - Display cannot be created due to insufficient video memory at line 0". I was playing the game at 1280x960 if that matters. Also could you add a 1280x1024 as this is the resolution lcd monitors use (most anyways not counting widescreen).
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BiggAdd
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Posted: 31st Jan 2007 23:44
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Wow!!! That is some amazing stuff you have there mike!!!! Makes my game just look like a single pixel on the screen. Good Show!

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Junkrock
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Mabey a prince of persia style option where you can go from chase cam to the 'wide angle' cam you have at the minute?? i think that could solve alot of issues.

Also will u need anyore music for this game? let me know asap so I can get it done before the deadline.

DaZ

eXus - www.exusband.com
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Agent Dink
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The camera can be controlled by holding shift. You can set it to any angle you want.

Sometimes the only way over a wall is to pile up enough bodies to climb over - Dave W.
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Peter H
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Posted: 1st Feb 2007 03:03 Edited at: 1st Feb 2007 03:03
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man, very nice facial animation. how did you do it? (besides skill )

also, loved the music junkrock. (reminded me of the music for homeworld 1.. which won best game soundtrack of it's year)

i got stuck on that level (10 or 11 i think) where you have to go up and up and up and up and up... (kind of like a maze except where each path goes up... so you can't see if it's a dead end or not )

it ran really slow on my computer
, but besides that it was ok (as far as gameplay goes, the art on the other hand was impressive)

One man, one lawnmower, plenty of angry groundhogs.
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Bizar Guy
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Posted: 1st Feb 2007 03:49
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Ahh!!!

I can't run it. No matter what I do in the options, when I click new game and it tries to load, the game crashes.

Just curious, but how many of the other people who can't play have ATI cards, and, is there anyone with an ATI card who is able to play it?

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eek
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Posted: 1st Feb 2007 03:52
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Mines Nvidia and crashes after level 3. It's a shame there's so many crashes, it's so good.
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Antidote
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Posted: 1st Feb 2007 04:21
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Yeah, I have to agree with Bat here. The effects are nice, and graphically it's very professional. The menus and everything have a nice polish to them, but when it get to the gameplay your initial reaction is, "Where am I going". By the time I was the the third level I had such a hard time finding the blocks to jump on that I resorted to memorizing where I had fallen. It has great potential, but it still needs a lot of work before I would find the time to dedicate anymore than fifteen minutes playing it. Still, your graphical style is very nice and I understand that you still have a couple weeks to fine tune the controls and all. You've managed to do more work in the allotted time period than others (including myself) and I'd say that you have a very good chance of being one of the top ranked.


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Spambergo
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Posted: 1st Feb 2007 04:31 Edited at: 1st Feb 2007 04:32
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I've got an ATI Radeon X1600 series AGP card. It crashes on the loading menu, regardless of the resolution that I choose.

My Nvidia Compo Entry - Villain:
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=94427&b=32
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Slayer93
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Posted: 1st Feb 2007 04:44
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Very cool game and I'm glad your not in the US. Although I don't think my game could win anyway, unless there was no one in the US entering. It crashed on level 3 for me too but then I closed everything to make sure and ran it again and it worked fine. I love the cutscenes and magic(ice is the best one I think but you should of said you had to change the magic from the menu).

Working on Boxed for NVIDIA compo. Check it out

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david w
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Posted: 1st Feb 2007 05:37
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This game would be "THE CATS ASS", if you fixed the character controls.

1. The controls seem sluggish.
2. The camera sucks nuts.(plain and simple, this kills the game.)

I really really like this game, this is by far the best game I have ever seen on dbp. Dont let my constructive criticism put me in a negative light with you. All I would like to see is this game become something major. If it was on a store shelf. I would pay for it, and thats saying somethings, as I am very particular as to what I buy when it comes to this sort of thing.

I really think if you fixed those two things then this game would be the best thing ever created on dbp.
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Junkrock
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I think it crashes with ATI cards...thats what I have and i get the similar crash, as of yet I havnt seen my music ingame mabey some updated videos mike

DAZ

eXus - www.exusband.com
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Agent Dink
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Posted: 1st Feb 2007 07:46
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Quote: "2. The camera sucks nuts.(plain and simple, this kills the game.)"



I say again. You can control the camera with shift. Level 3 is easy then

Sometimes the only way over a wall is to pile up enough bodies to climb over - Dave W.
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valleyman86
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Posted: 1st Feb 2007 08:18
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ok got it to work with my ati card. Just wait long enough on the third level and it loaded. Uhm its boring though. Graphics are amazing but holy hell I had to lead those souls around so much it was like uhm im done with this. Not near enough action. But amazing graphics and sound. Also I found out if you press f1 you can edit the level lol. Btw thunder magic is the shizznit. 100 damage.
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Mike Inel
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Posted: 1st Feb 2007 08:44
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Quote: "the character walks in a really strange direction (at about 10 degrees off-centre). "

Quote: "1. The controls seem sluggish.
2. The camera sucks nuts.(plain and simple, this kills the game.)"

Quote: "I think it crashes with ATI cards..."

....... To tell the truth, i'm quite tired of working on this project (since I did this almost everyday fultime for the past months) But i'll see what I can do to fix all these... But I guess I can't fix the loading crashing problem, for I don't have any ATI cards, or any computer that does that problem... (Darn! I'm not good at programming... Especially bug fixing...)

I'll try to change the levels then, making almost all have either enemies or souls... (Instead of simple walk and jump) But if anyone have any suggestions, you can edit the levels by pressing F1 while in the game. (Although you'll have to figure out the controls)

@Junkrock: Nah, no need for more, save it up for the next project...

@Peter H: I use points for every facial feature (ex. Upper eyelids, Jaw, Side lips, eyebrows, etc.) And ok, i'll try to make that level easier...

@david w: In what way the controls are sluggish? I also find the controls odd and difficult, but I can't point out which are the bad things...

May I ask, how many of the people have reached the 20th floor? And does anyone think the sound effects are bad? (Cuz I do...)

Programmers does a big participation in a game, yet they have the least credit.
Portfolio: http://mike-inel.cgsociety.org/gallery/
Website: www.Altiz-Studio.com
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Bizar Guy
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Posted: 1st Feb 2007 12:50
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Gah! I hope that somehow the error ends up just being part of this demo, because I really wanted to play this.

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Roxas
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Posted: 1st Feb 2007 13:14
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I think its on the shaders.. If mike wroted them on nvidia shader composer..

Private Maple Story Coder
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david w
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Posted: 1st Feb 2007 21:34
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I have an ATI Radeon 1950xtx and I have no problems running the game with everything on.
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eek
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Posted: 2nd Feb 2007 00:44
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Like I said, it crashes on my nvidia 5500 also, so I don't believe it's isolated to ATI cards. :o Must be a frustrating problem.
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valleyman86
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Posted: 2nd Feb 2007 06:50
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i have gotten to lv 20 and yes im on an ati card. Just super long loading times especially for level 3.
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Roxas
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Posted: 2nd Feb 2007 08:54
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Ok I got it working on my second computer but when i play it while it just slows downs its fast on start but it immedatily slows down.. lack mode puts it little faster but dont know why.. If its possiple try to fix these speed bugs.. Oh yeah and after Floor 3 It stops loading.. And game isnt active anymore.. So its like a crash.


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Mike Inel
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Posted: 2nd Feb 2007 09:13
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@The Full Metal Coder Roxas: I tried, but I can't or the collision will have problems... (And i'm not good at collision programming)

About the level 3 crash, I was planning on adding in the options "Scenematic On/Off" for safety purposes... (This also skips the opening scenematic)

Btw, I'll have lesser time with this project from now on cuz i'll be joining another competition that'll start in Feb 3... (I just can't resist competitions! Especially if they have PS3/Wii+PSP/XBox360/$600 as prizes! For the plugins!!!)

Programmers does a big participation in a game, yet they have the least credit.
Portfolio: http://mike-inel.cgsociety.org/gallery/
Website: www.Altiz-Studio.com
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