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NVIDIA Competition 2008 / Mike Inel's Entry

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Mike Inel
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Posted: 10th Apr 2007 01:23
Alletine = 3117 Tris (1.4 Mb)
Player = 2414 Tris (5.1 Mb)

Roxas
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Posted: 10th Apr 2007 16:20
AHAA!! Onw slowdown found the x files.. Cash can do 50-500kb size of x files with similar poly/tri count..



dark coder
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Posted: 10th Apr 2007 16:25
Quote: "AHAA!! Onw slowdown found the x files.. Cash can do 50-500kb size of x files with similar poly/tri count.."


What's with the ..? didn't realize this was a media handling compo going on here. His .X files are probably large due to the animations which bump up filesizes a lot, also he possibly exported the .x files as ASCII, to save on file size he could save them out as .dbo or use WOLF's animation plugin combined with saving as .dbo to get a very small filesize.

Mike Inel
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Posted: 11th Apr 2007 00:27
I used Pandasoft X Exporter... I don't know anything about the ASCII, but I might observe it as well... And yes, the file size is larger because of the animation.
Player = 2414 Tris w/ 1000+ frames (5.1 Mb)

Alfa x
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Posted: 11th Apr 2007 17:41 Edited at: 11th Apr 2007 17:42
@ Mike: thanks. What is Tris?.
Van B
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Posted: 11th Apr 2007 18:58
Frames and a complex vertice weight setup will always bloat .X models, but at least they compact pretty small. If you were using lots of models with that level of animation then it would be a concern, that's where Wolfs plugin shows it's benefits, but for 1 main character it's no biggie.


Good guy, Good guy, Wan...
Roxas
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Posted: 11th Apr 2007 19:52
In panda u can select compress method use Binary and Compression instead of text..



Mike Inel
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Posted: 12th Apr 2007 03:10
@Alfa x: Tris = Triangles. Polygons may contain 4 or more sides, and realtime rendering is only concerned with 3 sided polygons, so it's best to tell the triangles instead of polygons...

@Van B: May I know what's this "Wolfs plugin" is? Any link you know? I'm quite interested on this... I'm always concern about the performance, since complex weights always slows my game alot...

@The Full Metal Coder Roxas: Ah, I see. It was already set in that whenever I export...



@Everybody: There's a possibility that a studio is gonna buy this game for them to finish it... It's still not confimed though, but i'm selling it anyway... I have no time to work on this project anymore...

Van B
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Posted: 12th Apr 2007 09:28
The Enhanced Animation Plugin. It's for sale here, not sure how much exactly though. It let's you share animation data on your models, so if you had 20 enemies, you could just load in 20 un-animated but rigged models, and animate them with the same data, also blend and mix animations. So when your girl is aiming her gun you could be playing a walk animation on the legs.

It should also be a pretty good system when used alongside Dark Physics, you could get a great ragdoll system I'm sure because the ragdolling could take over seamlessly.


Good guy, Good guy, Wan...
Mike Inel
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Posted: 12th Apr 2007 09:47
EnAn is already in my "to-buy" list. I especially need its animation sharing and per limb animation.
I'm not sure about Dark Physics though, cuz i'll have to pay alot if i'm gonna sell my game...

Thanks for the info

Van B
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Posted: 12th Apr 2007 10:04
The only stipulation with Dark Physics is you need to sign up and make a WIP post on the Ageia website, after that you have no licensing concearns - those guys are really more interested in selling their hardware than selling software licences, so there's nothing stopping you from adopting DP, you just have to make yourself known to them.


Good guy, Good guy, Wan...
Mike Inel
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Posted: 13th Apr 2007 15:32 Edited at: 13th Apr 2007 15:36
I'm still scared about the licensing stuffs... heheh...

Quote: "There's a possibility that a studio is gonna buy this game for them to finish it... It's still not confimed though, but i'm selling it anyway... I have no time to work on this project anymore.."

Well, I guess they didn't buy it when I told them the price is $3500 excluding the music... I don't know if it's too much, but I don't want to give away my 3 months of work for a cheap price...

Roxas
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Posted: 13th Apr 2007 17:59
Also if u are using dbpro Play/loop object commands they slow down.. U could make ur own animation system with set object frame



Alfa x
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Posted: 18th Apr 2007 16:54
@ Roxas: Any ideas on how to make it....
Van B
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Posted: 18th Apr 2007 17:31
SET OBJECT FRAME Obj,Frame


Looping the object just plays through at the set speed, so you can mimic that really easily.

Every loop, just:

Inc Frame#,1.0
If Frame#>TOTAL OBJECT FRAMES(Obj) then Frame#=0
SET OBJECT FRAME Obj,Frame#


I tend to do this every time, it's more convenient to have different animations stored in 1 model, so using this technique you could have your model animate extremely neatly - pretty much flawless when used with SET OBJECT INTERPOLATION, which is a weird command that can do wonders if used correctly.

I regard the objects interpolation as cod-liver oil, it smoothes out the joints - but you don't want it doing this every time. So what I do is store the interpolation in an array, as part of a type usually, but every loop I increase each objects interpolation to 100 and set it (if it's not currently 100) - when I change animation modes, say from running to dying, well I'd probably set the interpolation to about 50, it would then ramp up to normal animation in around a second - making the model smoothly change to the new pose.


Good guy, Good guy, Wan...
Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 19th Apr 2007 20:41
Quote: "Player = 2414 Tris (5.1 Mb)"

How many frames of animation is this model? Most of my models have that polycount. With about 500 frames of animation I can get a model about 850kb-1mb. DBPs main problem with animated models is not poly count, but file size. Smaller files really helps speed a game up.

I've also made an animation system plugin for DBP that handles timer based animations and interpolations. It also gives you feedback on animation markers. This allows you to do things like set sound effects for footsteps without having to test for animation frames. It's also faster than DBPs native system, and allows you to define up to 100 animations per model with a different FPS and blend rate for each animation. You can see it in my most recent Geisha House videos. My next video (2 days) will show more of its capabilities.

It's not ready for release yet because I've not finished other components. I'd be interested in sharing it for this project if you wanted to finish it. It won't be available to the public for another month, at least.


Come see the WIP!
Mike Inel
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Posted: 20th Apr 2007 00:15
@The Full Metal Coder Roxas: In the game, I did what VanB said... And IMO, it's still has the same performance where the higher the frame number used, the slower the game gets... This is very noticable when you aim your gun while in mid-air, cuz the animation frames of air-idle and air-aim are really different.

@Cash Curtis II: Well, I did mentioned this:
Quote: "Player = 2414 Tris w/ 1000+ frames (5.1 Mb)"

But what makes it larger is the rig. The player got facial features that add in the limbs... I have EnAn that i'll be using in Virgo. Although i'm not familiar with the "animation markers"... I'll have to look at it then...

I still have no plans on going back to this project...

Alfa x
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Posted: 21st Apr 2007 17:32
@ Vab B: Thanks, this can be of great help.


@ Mike Inel: So this animation System dind't improve your performance in any way?
Roxas
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Posted: 21st Apr 2007 18:21
It should improve... At least it did for me..



Mike Inel
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2007 02:28
It improved ALOT, but not in IOTT... I only tested it in an adult viewer i'm working on... From 15FPS to 80FPS! The only problem is the loading time. The more the limbs/bones the slower it gets... Mine took 20 sec to load...

Roxas
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2007 10:24
Dbpro user said that hes DLL will put rendering faster.. But i dont know about loading U should ask about it from him..



Mike Inel
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2007 14:14
@The Full Metal Coder Roxas: I dunno... Maybe i'll just lessen my bones/limbs for faster loading time... I'm not really good at commenting something that might be my own mistake...

@Google Ad: Hi. Have we ever met? You joined 3 days after my birthday? How nice! I think you're cute! (LOL!)

Shadow Coderer
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2007 15:19
Someone was gonna buy your game?? Thats awsome. However, if you have no plans to continue it yourself, and you have already won some great prizes for it, I would have thought that you would not be quite so forcefull on the price... Ofcourse, its down to you but I would think that selling it would be a great thing to do if you have given up on it yourself. Good luck on your future projects!
Now to check up on the adult game of yours...

"Psst! Brian! There's a message in my alphabet soup. It says, 'oooooooooo!'"
"Peter, those are Cheerios."
Mike Inel
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2007 15:37
Well....... Call me selfish..... Yeah...

My reason is: If they think the price is high, then it means they're small-time game developers who just dream of making a great game but haven't finished a single one in their whole history... No offence, but I admit I was once like that too...
I don't want to handle my months of work to noobs... Again, no offence... And again, I was once like that too...

Besides, I still got plans, but not today or next year... There are many things that were not applied in the game because of the deadline... But I can't continue it now, cuz like what my boss said, "business first"...

Alfa x
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2007 00:16
@ Mike, Roxas: Maybe you can try what Cash Said. It's better to have the file size low. If animations are adding overhead maybe you can design a dll for that or ask cash. I think the person's that is most in Dll'sis DBpro like Roxas said. (He is working in two WIP Dll's in this moment)
Mike Inel
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2007 03:07
Ah, now I get it... So he makes dll, i thought he was referring to EnAn... heheh... Oops.
And now I get that Roxas was referring to someone else...
........... Man, i'm slow!

Well, i'm not really a good programmer... So far, only DBPro is the only language I know... And I don't know how to make dlls or code in C/C++...
...... I'm not good at asking someone to get something from him/her... I always stick to what I have. Unless I can buy it or have something in exchange, or he/she offers it for free in public!

Alfa x
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2007 03:39
who knows...
maybe you need yourselves...

One of DBpro Dll's is free.
Check sparky Dll's and wolf's. I don't know either.
But everybody talk about them so much.
Roxas
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2007 18:49 Edited at: 23rd Apr 2007 19:51
W...O...W!! U dont know about sparky's and Wolf, Alfa x? Then u have missed part of dbpro coding..

Btw Mike!!

NOW I REMEMBER how to improve loading time!!

U should load from mesh!! Yes That was it!!

I readed somwhere about it.. (But i think loading one object and cloning from it works too :/)

But this works only if u need to load same object many times!



Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 24th Apr 2007 00:36
Sparky's dll is great, Ruccus made a good piece of collision code with it, it might be something to weave into your engine, it is pretty fast, despite the slow downs I already had in Shadow Behind the Leaves.

Did The Buddha have a Zen micro?
Mike Inel
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Posted: 24th Apr 2007 00:47 Edited at: 24th Apr 2007 00:55
Seppuku Arts: (GASP) You're back??? That's new. I used Sparky's in IOTT. No one can live without Sparky's dll!!! (Unless you got money for the other collision dll)

@The Full Metal Coder Roxas: That'll be ok, but I need the limbs and animation of the model... But i'll try to look on it and get some ideas.

Btw, i just noticed... Why you all revive this thread??? It's suppose to be long dead! lol!

Alfa x
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Posted: 24th Apr 2007 01:14
@ Roxas: Then I shall solute that, thanks for the advice.
Roxas
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Posted: 24th Apr 2007 10:25
Well u can load only one object with limbs and then use clone or instance..



Mike Inel
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Posted: 2nd May 2007 18:01 Edited at: 2nd May 2007 18:03
@The Full Metal Coder Roxas: I can't... They're all completely different to each other...

Well, er... In case I need a single image to present my game...

1280x960

Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 2nd May 2007 22:37
Quote: "Seppuku Arts: (GASP) You're back??? That's new. I used Sparky's in IOTT. No one can live without Sparky's dll!!! (Unless you got money for the other collision dll)"

lol, I never left the forums mate, just avoiding game making, of course, the problem is, I'm too addicted to 3D modelling

Did The Buddha have a Zen micro?
Alfa x
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Posted: 5th May 2007 17:08
@ Mike Inel: Wow what an image....
How much do you charge for an image like that one?.
Mike Inel
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Posted: 7th May 2007 02:24
Alfa x
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Posted: 8th May 2007 18:46
Ok,
thanks.
Zilla
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Posted: 13th May 2007 20:52 Edited at: 13th May 2007 20:52
I just stumbled over the Monthly Game Art Competition #35: "Child of Sin".

Congratulations! Awesome as usual!
Alfa x
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Posted: 14th May 2007 16:40
Do you know wich is my wallpaper?...
Mike Inel
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Posted: 14th May 2007 17:58
Roxas
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Posted: 17th May 2007 14:08
Oh btw.. I did little research.. I found out in my game when using hide object it does not speed up the game.. The object still slows the fps like its visible insteead of that use exclude object on and exclude object off i dont know if u are already using but those are really great commands


[B] - LINKIN PARK - [/B]
Mike Inel
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Posted: 17th May 2007 16:13
Thanks for the info!!!
Wow, it's pretty cool that you still post here for tips and observations! Thanks a bunch!

Roxas
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Posted: 17th May 2007 19:55
Hehee.. Nope.. U are just my inspiration on creating my games Still trying to learn modelling hard.. I have been watching 3dtotal tutorials like three days


[B] - LINKIN PARK - [/B]
Mike Inel
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Posted: 18th May 2007 03:22
.....Wow, i'm flattered...
I wonder why I wasn't like that when I was still learning 3d...
Again, thanks!

Roxas
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Posted: 18th May 2007 20:19
Flattered.. U played KHII ?

Anyways i would really like to see ur best tutorials For animation and modelling so i can learn something about them


[B] - LINKIN PARK - [/B]
Alfa x
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Posted: 20th May 2007 20:10 Edited at: 20th May 2007 20:12
The image you use to present your game is my desktop wallpaper.

@ Roxas: Me too!
Mike Inel
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Posted: 21st May 2007 02:27
@The Full Metal Coder Roxas: I emailed you...
@Alfa x: Thanks! Well, like what I emailed Roxas, i'm not good at teaching... heheh...

Alfa x
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Posted: 27th May 2007 14:57 Edited at: 27th May 2007 14:59
.
Anyway, the info you gived us earlier is good. Thanks.
Alfa x
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Posted: 28th May 2007 00:18 Edited at: 28th May 2007 00:31
Hi!!, Sorry to double post.
Can I ask you some questions?

1) How much time did it take from you to make one level(Hours)?.

2) How much time did you invested in doing the first foe(Hours).

3) How much time did you invested in doing one magic(Hours)?.

4) What was the overall time for doing the game(Hours).

5) How much time did you invested in doing effects like the
sword trail(Hours).

I know these questions can seem funny. The reason is that i want to make an stimation for a project that i'm doing, and your game is a Real good one to take reference from.

Thanks in advance.
Mike Inel
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Posted: 28th May 2007 01:16 Edited at: 28th May 2007 01:26
It's been 5-6 months since I made the game, and I think I forgot the specific times that you want to know... Sorry...

All I can say is that trial-and-error took me alot of time... It doesn't matter how big or small the special effect is, if it didn't turn out good in the game, then it's a waste...
Like the dress changing animation I made in the very first demo... Took me days to design and animate them, but discarded it cuz it's not obvious and texturing realtime is slow in some cards...

Hope that helps...

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