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Work in Progress / RPG - Geisha House. Image intensive!!

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Shadow Coderer
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Posted: 6th Mar 2007 20:52
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Pupeteer does sound amazing, but I havent actually used it yet despite owning gamespace for... a long time. Curse that ridiculously long manual.
Bongadoo; what is the pre built rig like in pupeteer, and Id love to hear your critique on it aswell, cash curtis.
Good to see that you have it though, cash. I was beginning to think that hardly anyone used it since the 3d chat section is dominated by blender and milkshape discussions.
That animation pluggin is exactly what Ive been waiting for. There was supposed to one a little while ago by accode... forgotton the name... but whoever it was went bust and that pluggin became unavailable. Finally, now I can have prince of persia quality animations.
Sumore quick fire questions:
what do you create your levels with?
where do you get your textures assuming you dont make them?
Am I wrong in thinking that you plan to animate models entirely with the plugin? Is this possible, or is it a simple matter of sharing the animations between models? I feel like I'm asking too much and not commenting enough so I'll end by seeing - thats a niiice pig you got there!

"If I die, tell my wife 'hello'"
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Bongadoo
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Posted: 7th Mar 2007 18:55
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The main skeleton is a 5 spine-points model with full finger and toe bones. Full heirarchy:



So it's quite comprehensive, and full limits/arcs of rotation are all set up also. Send me a message if you want any more info; don't want to hijack the post

"I haven't failed. I've just found ten thousand ways that don't work." - Thomas Edison
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Shadow Coderer
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Posted: 7th Mar 2007 20:20
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Thanks bongadoo. I wont bother you with a message, but will dig out the ol' manual for GS. Just learnt that gs .x export is a pile of and so need to find some other format for getting it into milkshape before exporting it from there.

"If I die, tell my wife 'hello'"
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Chenak
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Posted: 8th Mar 2007 01:45 Edited at: 8th Mar 2007 01:46
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Here's the old man so far, texturing is going quite slow since my graphics tablet died, but im getting a nice new A4 wacom tablet soonish

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Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 8th Mar 2007 10:19 Edited at: 9th Mar 2007 03:33
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@Bongadoo -Rigging in Milkshape is very easy and straightforward. I am very interested in rigging in Gamespace, and I really appreciate the information! I'll test it out tonight or tomorrow. You can post more information here if you want.

Ultima VI and VII are the best games ever made. They are my definite points of reference for this game.


@Shadow Coderer -
Quote: "what do you create your levels with?"

3DWS. Objects within are created in Milkshape.

Quote: "where do you get your textures assuming you dont make them?"

I made most of my textures myself. Most of my source images come from Google Images. Some of my other textures came with 3DWS.
All of the new character textures were made by me.

Wolf's plugin is not for animating from scratch. One thing that it will allow is sharing a set of animations between models if they have the same limb hierarchy. The animations must be extracted from a source model, though.

@Chenak -
That model looks AWESOME! The Japanese girl that you did is an extremely important part of the game, two game essential quests revolve around her. Plus, I'll be using her head for the other Geishas, as they currently have man-heads.


Come see the WIP!

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Bongadoo
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Posted: 8th Mar 2007 12:47
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Actually, Puppeteer ships with Gamespace, but I think you can buy the plugin for Milkshape aswell

Genetica is the best texture maker I've seen (if you can afford it!). But they also give away loads of their generic seamless textures free on the website.

That old man's head is amazing, quality stuff.

"I haven't failed. I've just found ten thousand ways that don't work." - Thomas Edison
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Ron Erickson
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Posted: 8th Mar 2007 15:28
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Quote: "Wolf's plugin is not for animating from scratch. One thing that it will allow is sharing a set of animations between models if they have the same limb hierarchy. The animations must be extracted from a source model, though."


It isn't intended to do animating from scratch. It does, however, give you all the tools to do it. There are commands to create/delete/modify keyframes. You can save the changes to a new animation file. The parameters that the animation keys take are equal to what you would return from the LIMB ANGLE, LIMB OFFSET and LIMB SCALE commands. If someone really wanted to, they could make their own animator program in DBpro with the plugin.

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Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 9th Mar 2007 03:44 Edited at: 9th Mar 2007 03:44
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@WOLF -
It would be perfect for an animating application made in DBP. I expect to see a couple pop up soon enough The tremendous advantage that it will offer is hassle free WYSIWYG animated models.

Updates on the knight...






Come see the WIP!

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Bongadoo
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Posted: 9th Mar 2007 10:52
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Very nice. His shield though; if he raises his left arm to defend himself his shield will be upside down Obviously he failed his Shield Handling and Limb Attachment 101.

Also, there appears to be some kind of object in his hand when no sword is equipped. Detonator?

It really is a great model though, can't wait to see him animated.

"I haven't failed. I've just found ten thousand ways that don't work." - Thomas Edison
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QuothTheRaven
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Posted: 9th Mar 2007 11:22 Edited at: 9th Mar 2007 11:23
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Demodemodemo demo?

edit: Nevermind, it was already answered

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Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 9th Mar 2007 12:26 Edited at: 10th Mar 2007 06:09
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@Bongadoo -

Wow, you are 100% correct about that shield. He must have had a bit too much to drink. He would sure be embarrassed if his fellow knights saw that...

I'll get that corrected right away

That thing in his hand is actually his sword. I was just testing the model out, I've not set him up to arm and disarm yet. I just turned him so his blade was out of view

There is still a bit of work to do on him, but he's partially animated at the moment. Not video worthy, though.

@QuothTheRaven -
Believe me, I want a demo now too I promise it will be just enough to piss you off and make you want to buy the game.


Come see the WIP!

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DB newbie
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Posted: 9th Mar 2007 16:40
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i just cant say this enough curtis.....amazing!


Come see the WIP!

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Deathead
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Posted: 10th Mar 2007 00:25
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[Faint] Holy moly!

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Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 10th Mar 2007 06:13 Edited at: 10th Mar 2007 06:15
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Doing some more modeling and texture work, on the Geisha this time.

Old Geisha...


New Geisha candidate 1...


New Geisha candidate 2...


Big hair or small hair? Not sure which I like better. I also realize that her skin isn't white, but I don't like the white skin anyway so I think I'll just leave it out. I had to work hard to give her boobs, the original model had a totally flat chest made up of about 4 polygons. I subdivided her to about a B cup.


Come see the WIP!

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Steve J
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Posted: 10th Mar 2007 06:32
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I like the small hair one. Only a b cup?=P I expect that your players will want at least a 36c=P

pleading and needing and bleeding and breeding and feeding exceeding..where is everybody? trying and lying defying denying crying and dying..where is everybody?
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DB newbie
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Posted: 10th Mar 2007 06:50
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i like teh smaller haired one to..the only thing i wold change is the face a bit.


Come see the WIP!

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Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 10th Mar 2007 10:34
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Awesome, short haired girl it is.

I'd give her a D cup, but I don't want her to look like a porn star

@DB newbie -
What changes to the face do you think would be good?


Come see the WIP!
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DB newbie
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Posted: 10th Mar 2007 16:26
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the mouth area to me it just seems like....blah


Come see the WIP!

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Kieran
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Posted: 11th Mar 2007 01:53 Edited at: 11th Mar 2007 01:54
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i dont see anything wrong with the models... well except for the fact that geisha means "japanese prostitute"

anyways the face is fine, good luck cash

PS: the short haired geisha is better

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Steve J
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Posted: 11th Mar 2007 03:07
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@Kieran: Err, no it doesn't. Geisha's played an important part in ancient Japanese history.

pleading and needing and bleeding and breeding and feeding exceeding..where is everybody? trying and lying defying denying crying and dying..where is everybody?
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Kieran
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Posted: 11th Mar 2007 03:34
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well 3 people all said that it does, so its either them or you.. wonder whos right

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Steve J
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Posted: 11th Mar 2007 03:45
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Erm, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geisha


Just to let you know. It is their appearance that led to western society likening them to our prostitutes.

pleading and needing and bleeding and breeding and feeding exceeding..where is everybody? trying and lying defying denying crying and dying..where is everybody?
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Kieran
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Posted: 11th Mar 2007 03:54
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oh ok, sorry about that. just saying what i was told. sorry if that was offensive

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Benjamin
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Posted: 11th Mar 2007 04:18 Edited at: 11th Mar 2007 04:20
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I would say the small haired one too. The other one just looks like she's got a cat asleep up there.

Quote: "Geisha's played an important part in ancient Japanese history."

Surely you mean Geisha (Japanese plural is the same as singular). Oh and by the way, in English there is no apostrophe when marking the plural. So many people seem to make this mistake..

Tempest (DBP/DBCe)
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Kieran
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Posted: 11th Mar 2007 04:21
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lol grammar critic

jokes hehe yeah people to make mistakes alot, even myself

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Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 11th Mar 2007 04:25
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Geisha aren't prostitutes...

Quote: "Geisha have been confused with the traditional high-class courtesans called oiran. Like geisha, oiran wear elaborate hairstyles and white makeup. A simple way to distinguish between the two is that oiran, as prostitutes, tie their obi in the front. Geisha tie their obi in the back in the usual manner.

In Japan there is also a modern variety of prostitute known as the Onsen geisha. These women typically work in onsen towns such as Atami and market themselves to tourists as "one-night geisha.""


Quote: "Onsen Geisha (温泉芸者 is a negative term synonymous with prostitute. Onsen Geisha commonly follow one distinctive difference in their clothing which will be great help to those traveling. The Obi is tied in the front instead of the back as with a traditional Geisha. This symbol is portrayed as "Easy access" or "For Sale" vs the traditional Geisha who sell themselves as an entertainer."


but Japanese prostitutes often market themselves as Geisha. To be quite honest, the context of the Geisha House in this game is far less than honorable. Westerners almost always think of the Geisha as prostitutes, so I'm taking advantage of that association.


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Steve J
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Posted: 11th Mar 2007 04:33
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@Ben:


@Cash: So you don't expect many Japanese buyers, eh?=P

pleading and needing and bleeding and breeding and feeding exceeding..where is everybody? trying and lying defying denying crying and dying..where is everybody?
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Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 11th Mar 2007 05:23 Edited at: 11th Mar 2007 05:24
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Quote: "@Cash: So you don't expect many Japanese buyers, eh?=P"


Yeah, just like the onsen resort towns, the Marauder's Bay Geisha House caters to tourists. The folks that run the Geisha House are refugees from Japan, part of a group of outcasts that still exist today.

I haven't had the time lately to do the amount of work I'd like to do, so in my spare time I've been working on textures and setting up models to work in the game.

Here's a short unspectacular video showing some of the animals. I added every single one of them without a single line of code, it is all done through the script. The original goal of this project is to produce an RPG editor, and all of my work bears that in mind.

High res video...
http://www.cashcurtis.com/videos/gh5.wmv


Youtube video...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qd5jiNt4E9Y




Their AI isn't quite right, obviously bears and wolves wouldn't hunt together. And I've not positioned them all yet, I'm just adding them to the same area to make sure they all work right.


Come see the WIP!

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Kieran
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Posted: 11th Mar 2007 07:57 Edited at: 11th Mar 2007 20:20
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cash, this is amazing. i didn't think anyone would every get this far in DBP good work! also i love the media and enjoy watching the videos. an awesome release this one will be


RPG Engine Work in progress!
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TEH_CODERER
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Posted: 11th Mar 2007 15:37
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Here is a link to some definitions. Prostitution not mentioned.
http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient-ff&ie=UTF-8&rls=DVFC,DVFC:1970--2,DVFC:en&q=define%3A+geisha

As always Cash, this looks amazing! Really can't wait to play it and I have no criticisms at all at the moment.

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eek
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Posted: 12th Mar 2007 06:08
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I think the white make up is kind of crucial to the portrayal of the Geisha. It wouldn't matter quite so much if the game wasn't centered around Geisha (or I would assume so, from the name). I suppose it won't make a great deal of difference to the directed audience, but I still think the make up is important. It's up to you though either way.

Lookin' good Cash!
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Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 12th Mar 2007 17:57
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Quote: "@Kieran -"

I've still got a way's to go, but it's getting there One thing, I definitely won't quit on this.

Quote: "@TEH_CODERER -"

Geisha are definitely not prostitutes. The thing is, though, that many prostitutes pretend to be geisha. The association is inescapable. Plus, the association becomes even stronger because of the nature of the geisha job. As a beautiful, talented, and expensive form of 'entertainment', and given the disparity in Japanese society between men and women, it was impossible for sex and money not to become involved in some way, at some point.

@eek -
Quote: "I think the white make up is kind of crucial to the portrayal of the Geisha."

It is. For practical reasons, I'll have two different sets of Geisha. One set will be the waiting girls. They'll wear the makeup and the more elaborate costume, and will tend to the needs of the house. The other girls won't wear the makeup and will have a simpler outfit. They'll be the 'serving' girls, if you will. I suppose (although this detail won't matter) that they would take turns at these duties.

The thing is, they aren't real Geisha, they are a pleasant abomination of the real thing.


Come see the WIP!
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TEH_CODERER
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Posted: 12th Mar 2007 18:05
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Yeh, I know, that is what I was trying to tell Kieran. When I started my post no one else had said anything so I was just trying to correct him. Golly you people got your posts in quick! Lol!

Back on topic now...

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Kieran
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Posted: 12th Mar 2007 19:19
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yeah sorry for bringing that up but i know a few people thought they were prostitutes lik i did, thanks fir clearing it up. now back on the subject or cash's game


RPG Engine Work in progress!
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Shadow Coderer
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Posted: 12th Mar 2007 19:31 Edited at: 12th Mar 2007 19:32
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I must say, and this will likely be my only critique for this game, that the original giesha is so much more attractive! THe knew one doesnt even look asian In terms of modelling and polycounts, the new one seems to triumph but I'd say the texture and face might need a little work to make her a stunning lady
Edit: CRAP! Didn't see the 4th page!

"If I die, tell my wife 'hello'"
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Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 13th Mar 2007 17:22
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I'm still working on the geisha, I'm not terribly satisfied with what I have. I should really shelve her for now, I need to work on some other things.

My priority now is to finish the engine, then the game. Then I can focus on the editor.

I'm working on my game flag system. That is, the ability to script game events that depend on other events. I'm linking a great many of the game functions to the scripting system, so through the use of the editor and thus through the scripts you'll be able to do pretty much anything that the engine is capable of.

I've been skirting around this part of the engine for a while now. It's all about correct structure for me, and I've only now found a way that really pleases me. The nice thing about this system is that I can entirely base the spellcasting effect system around it, as well as using objects. Any spell or object can have any number of sequenced events that can occur, but won't occur unless the correct conditions are met.

It will be pretty tedious to add, because I have to link it to everything. However, when it is finished, I'll be able to make the game hassle free. The greatest thing of course is that it will allow people using my RPG editor to make games of their own with absolute ease and user friendliness.


Come see the WIP!
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Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 17th Mar 2007 21:18 Edited at: 18th Mar 2007 04:42
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Oooh, wow, don't bury me under posts, I can hardly answer all of the questions. I mean, I can see why a commercial RPG / RPG Editing and Creating system is so inundated by messages. It means that there is interest in a nearly completed project... I LOVE making double posts, especially after 5 days.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVNgvNp9A1M



Well, this isn't the greatest video. I had to disable shadows because the animations aren't quite ready yet and I figured... why build two shadow rigs? I'll build it out of the lonely DM1 knight model when it's all ready. I show some of the new model.

I'm trying to get my hands on a copy of Purebasic, but those wieners don't want to sell me a copy. Figures. When I finally do manage to, I'm going to port all of my animation handling code to a plugin. I predict a +20 FPS increase. Plus other staple game functions, I could possibly see as much as +25.

Game flags are completed in structure, it's just a tedious matter of coding all of the supported functions. Once that has happened, I'll be ready to make the full game.


Come see the WIP!

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Jerok
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Posted: 17th Mar 2007 21:53
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The new movie looks really nice. Reminds me of the older elder scrolls games but with a much better combat system.
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SageTech
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Posted: 17th Mar 2007 23:50
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Wow Cash,

I haven't checked up on this project for quite a while, but its looking Awesome! Your work is deffinantly a big inspiration for me, but if I could just get off my lazy arse and continue on with Battle Legacy . Anyway keep up the great work mate!

Kenjar, yet another victim of NRS (N00b Relapse Syndrome) May he code in peace...

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Inspire
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Very nice video, dude. Looking great.

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TEH_CODERER
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Posted: 18th Mar 2007 10:23
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Lol! Loving the sarcasm and the vid!

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Shadow Coderer
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Posted: 18th Mar 2007 11:52
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Quick question: Is the sworn on the new guy added in the code, or actually part of the model, and animated in whatever software you use?
Video looks great.

"If I die, tell my wife 'hello'"
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Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 18th Mar 2007 13:05 Edited at: 18th Mar 2007 13:06
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@Jerok -I appreciate that The combat system is about to get kicked up a notch in a big way. I'm about to add in support for shields. Shields will allow people to block blows in real time. I'm also going to add sword slash effects. I know how I want to do it. I'm not going to use a sword trail, I'm going to use an alpha faded animated growing decal. I know exactly how I want it to look.

@SageTech -
Thanks! I hope to see more of Battle Legacy. I suppose that you just have to commit yourself to it. I have new ideas all the time, and I sure don't always feel like working on the same project. I can't quit now though, I have to drive on and finish this beast of a game.

@Inspire -
Thank you! I didn't really show that much, because the knight model isn't finished. But, more will follow soon.

@TEH_CODERER -
Quote: "Lol! Loving the sarcasm and the vid!"

There is plenty more of both where that came from!

@Shadow Coderer -
Quote: "Quick question: Is the sworn on the new guy added in the code, or actually part of the model, and animated in whatever software you use?"

That sword is a separate object. He can use any weapon in the game, as well as stash them on his back. The only thing I'll have to do is keep out weapons that wouldn't work on his back.



There is the dwarf axe, mid grab. If there is a V2, I'll have a couple different places he can place items, like his pack or his belt. For now I'm drawing the line at the weapon holder on his back.

I just bought lots of stuff, I think I have everything I need to finish the game. One bit of stuff was a bunch of weapons from my friends at www.cubixstudio.com.







They'll look awesome when they're normal mapped. I have to set them up one by one to work in the game. I won't use all of them either, but I definitely have some freedom.

The sword in the video was made by Psionic. That, along with a shield, will be obtained in once of the game quests. Both items are indestructible and have high damage. Other shields and swords will fall apart after they've become beat up.

I appreciate the comments guys!


Come see the WIP!

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SageTech
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Posted: 18th Mar 2007 13:35
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Thanks Cash, I just had a late night coding binge, and Im still going strong! Those models look absolutely pants though, I bought the male character off of cubixstudio a while back, (Sorry for making you animate that sorry excuse of a human model, if you remember that ) I might have to purchase some weapons from cubixstudio myself. Cheers.

Kenjar, yet another victim of NRS (N00b Relapse Syndrome) May he code in peace...

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DB newbie
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Posted: 18th Mar 2007 17:07
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sweet this is asome..


Come see the WIP!

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TEH_CODERER
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Posted: 18th Mar 2007 20:58
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Looks awesome! Nice money spending!

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Kieran
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Posted: 18th Mar 2007 21:12
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hehe i like the weapons i think if i tried I could make a few of that quality myself, well maybe anyways anyway Geisha house just keeps getting better and it looks really good. Keep it up cash!


RPG Engine Work in progress!
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Steve J
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Posted: 19th Mar 2007 01:21
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Nice! Are you going to use the NPC stuff?

pleading and needing and bleeding and breeding and feeding exceeding..where is everybody? trying and lying defying denying crying and dying..where is everybody?
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Xenocythe
19
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Joined: 26th May 2005
Location: You Essay.
Posted: 19th Mar 2007 04:06
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Sweetastic stuff Cash. Lovin all the models you baught, they are amazing.

Quote: "Xeno dont you have a game? Go work on that."

Thanks for the motivation man

No but really i'm intrigued in learning how to program this robot brain.

Good job, and good luck with this!

-Mansoor
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Cash Curtis II
19
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Joined: 8th Apr 2005
Location: Corpus Christi Texas
Posted: 19th Mar 2007 05:47
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@SageTech -
No worries Those are nice models, I bought the female NPC. They're complex enough that they make good main characters. I wouldn't want armies of them on screen at the same time though.

The .x export that they supply is not done properly, you should re-export it yourself from Milkshape with a time factor of 1.

The great thing though is that you can use that same animation rig to animate all of your own human models. In Milkshape it's a snap.

Pace yourself though, and give yourself short term to-do lists. If you plan properly, you don't hit a brick wall made of spaghetti

@TEH_CODERER -
Thanks, heh It does take money though. It's kind of like I have a magical team that I have to throw a little money every now and then.

@DB newbie -
Glad you think so. I promise, much more awesomeness to come very soon!!!

@Kieran -
Quote: "hehe i like the weapons i think if i tried I could make a few of that quality myself, well maybe anyways "

No doubt. I can too. But, I figure, why reinvent the wheel? Somebody made those weapons just for me. I can't possibly make everything in this game, I'd be modeling forever.

I will have to make lots of stock media for the RPG Editor, as I can't redistribute these models. No worries, I'll have time to do that after I release Geisha House.

@Steve J -
I bought one NPC from CubixStudio. The female. I didn't have a use for the male NPC, but I needed a solid female character. She's a big part of the game.

@Xenocythe -
I have to apologize. My comment to you was uncalled for. I do definitely hope to see your game develop more And your robot brain too.

I guess I was grumpy and letting JSG have it in that thread. I shouldn't have included you in that.

I appreciate it!


Come see the WIP!
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