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Work in Progress / RPG - Geisha House. Image intensive!!

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Kieran
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Posted: 5th Apr 2007 07:58
ok yeah well i guess it is quite a bit now that i see a bit more info that your framerate was already high, i thought you hadn't raised your FPS by much yet so you hadn't done much to raise it and that you were boasting about nothing much

i am sorry about that i shouldv'e confirmed before i started talking

and as i said before i love geisha house, it is awesome i was just trying to state a point on that quote that well, wasn't worth trying to state

Alquerian
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Posted: 5th Apr 2007 08:04
Quote: "This statement shows you haven't seen many dbpro projects. I can tell you while Geisha house is one of the best, it's far from being worked on a hundred times more than any other project in dbpro. "


Bizar Guy, I apologize I think I may have been misunderstood. I wasn't saying that Cash has put 100 times more effort into Geisha House as any other project, I was stating that for every 100 WIP threads you see, you don't usually see one that has as much effort and results as Geisha House displays.

You are definately correct in stating that 15 FPS could mean the difference between a worthless mound of 3D nonsense and a commercially viable product. BTW, I really like your style in Fabel Nux, I should spend more time following it

Terrain Generation has a whole new face.
Kieran
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Posted: 5th Apr 2007 08:09
well, everyone is probably going to view me as an ass hole now, i do agree now with the 15 FPS boost debate and i said sorry, but i am referring to the DAP thread. I was just trying to sort things out because there seems to be some problems going around between cash and i and i want to get them sorted, i asked cash to correct me where i got things wrong and from now on we are settling this over email and sorry if you still view me as an ass hole after reading this then i understand....but i think things like this should be sorted out so....i'll leave it to you to judge me

Alquerian
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Posted: 5th Apr 2007 08:16
Kieran - willingness to resolve issues is a commendable and mature path. I hope your issues are resolved soon

Terrain Generation has a whole new face.
Kieran
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Posted: 5th Apr 2007 08:18
thankyou Alquerian, i hope it does get resolved cos i think cash is a good person

Bizar Guy
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Posted: 5th Apr 2007 08:27 Edited at: 5th Apr 2007 08:30
Of course it will! Anyone who can hold a grudge on a Forum either has a far better reason than this or shouldn't be online. As to being an ass hole I judge you... not guilty.

@Alquerian, ah, I see now. Yes, you're correct. And I don't think you'll need to follow Fabel Nux (Dream is the final name), as I plan to post the finished product in program announcements in a few weeks. Really all I'm showing about it online now is a few pics in the gallery

Kieran
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Posted: 5th Apr 2007 08:30 Edited at: 5th Apr 2007 08:33
i wouldnt say holding a grudge but if i don't like the way someone is acting, even online then i don't see why that is wrong?

anyways lets leave cash's thread alone now, if you wanna talk or whatever you want just email it to me

chaos.bladezX(AT)gmail.com

Bizar Guy
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Posted: 5th Apr 2007 08:31 Edited at: 5th Apr 2007 08:37
no no, I was saying people won't hold a grudge against you and I think you aren't an ass hole. You seem to think I said just the opposite.

Kieran
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Posted: 5th Apr 2007 08:34
sorry i mis-read, i thought u were saying i am one and your not guilty about saying that well thanks good to know

Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 5th Apr 2007 12:49 Edited at: 27th Mar 2009 14:33
@Benjamin,
Bizar Guy,
Alquerian,

I really appreciate the support guys. The magic will return soon, I just needed to finish the animation system before I even started on magic. It's going to be spectacular. Spectacular spectacular, even The magic animations are just gorgeous, and the spellbook will open in his hand.

Quote: "and you think other peoples games don't have as much going on as yours? well they do and they can raise FPS alot and optimise their code and still have it running effeiciently so why do you seem to think that geisha house is sooooooooo special that its the only project that requires this?"

Kieran, if I do something directly related to the future success of this project, can't I post it in my own thread? I certainly hope that every single person can boost their FPS this much this late in the game. When I do, I certainly feel entitled to posting about it and not getting attacked in my own thread for it.

Here's the thing - you apologize half heartedly on this page. But, you are already well aware of the status of this project because you've been following it for some time now. Your post was meant to do nothing more than insult me. Why? I don't know why. I barely even knew you before this insanity began.

I certainly do not hold forum grudges, or real life grudges for that matter. However, you have knowingly been a complete ass to me, and I can't help but think of you as an ass. I hope that our future relationship can improve.


*************************************************************


Okay, I'm going to repost from the last page. This page, sadly, has been trashed. I like to post stuff like this at the top of the new page...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hP6WycqDqFk


Quote: "Visually this is a very minor update. There is a lot going on under the hood though.

Enemies don't just stand in front of your shield and accept the fact that they're eventually going to die. They'll strafe around and approach you from different angles. Enemies can also hold a shield now, and all enemies can use attack combos just like the player. It is a much nicer effect. In the last video, the skeletal warrior looked like he was scraping his sword against my shield most of the time.

Geisha House is now using the plugin that I wrote. I ported all of my animation handling to plugin form, and the result is absolutely terrific. The control is essentially the same, but far faster and more powerful. Animation feedback is much more developed as well. I forgot to add footstep sounds, but the new animation system will notify me of 1/4 animation increments, which will make it very easy to add animation dependant sounds without having to test for frames. I hate testing for frames, it is sloppy and unreliable.

Also being used is LiTs limb culling, in plugin form. It works nicely, and I added a save feature for the limb data so loading is extremely fast. As soon as he finishes the 3DW importer, we'll add that and get another FPS boost.

The final result of all this is about a 15 FPS boost. That might not sound like much, but I'm operating in a very tight margin with this game. I've got a map full of entities, animals, water, particles, animations, and just pure fabulousness. Every single frame counts at this point. Since the engine is essentially finished, there are not more FPS vampire surprises. My code is good, but there are various CPU expensive things that I can port to plugin. So far I've only ported things that other people will be able to use. Next, I'll port GH specific functions that require lots of calculations or looping."


To elaborate on LiTs 3DW importer, it will parse buildings into a group of objects, based on internal groups and texture assignments. A building might be 5 or 10 different objects. DBP will handle those smaller objects much more efficiently than one mega object. This will be especially helpful in dungeons, which will be huge meshes.

I'm breaking up objects into sub objects at the moment, but it is wasteful because of the lightmaps, and extremely tedious to correctly export. In many cases, the same lightmap is loaded into texture memory multiple times. This shouldn't be a problem any longer.

It will also be fast because the parsing will be saved. It will only have to do it once, then it will load the sub objects and the entity information directly. To rebuild the levels it will simply be a matter of deleting the old objects and the plugin will take care of the rest.


Come see the WIP!
Kieran
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Posted: 5th Apr 2007 13:14
Yeah its fine to post that in your own thread

I have replied on email so sorry for ruining this thread but we will talk on there now so not to flood TGC with this.

anyways lets turn this thread back to geisha house...

I watched the recent video and it looks really nice as well as the updates, good job. Also the 15 FPS boost is good now that i read these other posts keep it up

Xenocythe
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Posted: 5th Apr 2007 18:28
Cash, your battle system is by far the most excellent I have seen coming from a DBPro game. Congratulations. I look up to you

-Mansoor
Shadow Coderer
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Posted: 5th Apr 2007 20:17 Edited at: 5th Apr 2007 20:20
Its looking great as always cash!
Now for another noob question.
I'm getting horribly confused between limbs and bones. I know that a rig consisting of bones affects a mesh, which acts as a skin, and can be animated like a puppet. I do not know (anymore) whether a limb refers to one bone and the vertices that it affects or a seperate mesh that might be a leg or arm. I assumed that limb animation was an older, flawed method of animating organic characters, but you speak as if you have limbs and bones in one object. I don't even know if what I have said makes sense!
I would be most greatful, for any explanation or advice you may have.
Thanks again, and I must say that the most recent youtube vid is the most impressive of all the ones you have made.

"Psst! Brian! There's a message in my alphabet soup. It says, 'oooooooooo!'"
"Peter, those are Cheerios."
Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 5th Apr 2007 21:03
@Kieran -
No problem. Let's just both be mindful of the other.

@Xenocythe -
I appreciate that! I've spent an awful lot of time on it, I'm really glad that it's come together like I wanted.

Hopefully you guys feel the same way about the magic system after I've tweaked it a bit.

@Shadow Coderer -
I have been using the terms rather vaguely, haven't I? You're right, limb animations are an older method of animation. Dark Matter 1 models use this method.

I'm sure you already know all of this, but I'll just start from scratch so we are both talking about the same thing.

Bone animation uses a mesh skin for a much better effect. In your modeling app, you can have bones and limbs separate. You can group sections of the model into limbs first if you like. In Milkshape, limbs are grouped by faces. Bones are totally different. Bones are assigned by vertex. So, having separate limbs doesn't help you animate the model at all. Rather, it is useful for texturing the object. When you unwrap the model, you unwrap by limb and it will keep like areas together.

When you export the animated model to DBP, it ignores the modeling app limbs and uses the bone assignments to create the limbs. So, the bones become the limbs. I suppose that's why I use the words interchangeably. They certainly aren't, but they end up that way.

I hope I was clear about all that. I appreciate your comment about the new video, that certainly makes me happy


Come see the WIP!
Shadow Coderer
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Posted: 5th Apr 2007 22:50
You dont know how much of a relief it is to hear that the bones are considered to be limbs! I was about to prepare for an infinite number of headaches, when I first started thinking that limbs would have to be seperately assigned in new and strange ways! Thanks for your help on that one.

Out of interest, I have adopted your 2.5 k tri limit for main character models, but recently learned that the models in final fantasy x, are around 3k! For me, that really puts things into perspective, if DBP can't handle the number of polys that the PS2 could.

Two small questions now, which you probably expected.
Firstly, what program do you use for texturing?
And, can milkshape directly export bones and vertex animation in the .x format? Thanks.

As for the video, something about it makes it seem so much more professional. For one, the music and ambience sounds much better than usual. The new combat system works really well, all I would suggest is a kind of combat stanced sidestep for the enemies, because at the moment they kind of moonwalk to the left or right. This is just the sort of thing I notice though, having been brought up on Prince of Persia!

"Psst! Brian! There's a message in my alphabet soup. It says, 'oooooooooo!'"
"Peter, those are Cheerios."
eek
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Posted: 6th Apr 2007 01:47 Edited at: 6th Apr 2007 01:48
Looking wonderful as always Cash. For a little CC, to me at least, the default walking animation looks a little bit stiff and possibly too fast for the speed of the character's walking. (This would be not the animation during defensive walking) Just something that's been irking me for a while, but it still looks rather good. It could just be me though.

Bravo!
Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 6th Apr 2007 02:46
@Shadow Coderer -
Quote: "Out of interest, I have adopted your 2.5 k tri limit for main character models, but recently learned that the models in final fantasy x, are around 3k! For me, that really puts things into perspective, if DBP can't handle the number of polys that the PS2 could. "

It was dealing with Psionic's models that taught me about what DBP could actually handle. Like I've said before, the actual size of the model has a huge impact on how well DBP can deal with it. DBP handles medium poly objects very well. I think the problem is that lots of the models that are around are very poor quality - huge file size, too many animation frames. Too many animation frames is one way to turn a model into a pile of poop. Lots of frames aren't even necessary, because DBP automatically interpolates between consecutive frames.

Quote: "Firstly, what program do you use for texturing?"

I use Ultimate Unwrap 3D. It is an absolutely fantastic piece of software, worth every penny (around $60, I believe). Not only is it the best UV Mapping software available, but it has fantastic file format support. It can directly import and export to MS3D and X formats, among many others.

I also use Paint Shop Pro a lot in conjunction with it.

Quote: "And, can milkshape directly export bones and vertex animation in the .x format? Thanks."

Absolutely. The DX9 exporter is a plugin (I believe, it's been a long time since I've downloaded it), and is a very good one. Whenever I buy a stock model, I always re-export it myself and end up with a much smaller file.

People like to add a large time-factor to an animated model. However, that increases the file size by adding dead frames to the model. The purpose is to control the animation speed. There's no point though, a time factor of 1 is all you need.

I'm glad that you like the video. There are lots of ambient sounds. Every animal on the map is making sounds, in addition to things like the waterfall, river, and ocean. Combined with the music, I think it achieves a nice effect.

Unfortunately for my enemies, they don't have any type of combat walk. I need to slow down their strafing, which won't be hard, but at this point they're not getting any new animations I think that slower strafing would get rid of the moonwalking feeling.

@eek -
I'll experiment with slowing down the walking animation, see what you guys think. Perhaps it is a bit stiff, but I suppose that I would too if I were wearing a bunch of smelly armor

There are actually a couple animations that I think could be improved. The attack animations seem a bit stiff to me as well. But, at this point, they aren't going to get changed. I just need to use what I have to its maximum advantage.

Are you saying the defensive walking looks good, or looks stiff as well?

Glad you liked the video!


Come see the WIP!
The admiral
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Posted: 6th Apr 2007 03:40
I agree 15fps is a considerable amount for games that run at 30 or 60 fps it will be so much smoother.

The admiral
Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 7th Apr 2007 06:55 Edited at: 7th Apr 2007 06:56
I've been putting off updating the magic system. When this particular build of the engine started out, it was actually an RTS game. I have a somewhat annoying weapon problem - they aren't items, they are classified separately until the NPC dies, then they are converted to weapons. Blah blah blah, but I have to fix how the game handles weapons because that will include the spellbook now.

I've added walk sounds. I've also slowed down the walk animations. I'm very happy now, because I can set a different framerate for each animation. Before I had to use 18 fps for all the animations because it was good for attacking, but not for walking. Now it looks right.

I've also added sounds to when an item falls to the ground. I guess it's about time to fix the weapon system...


Come see the WIP!
Deagle
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Posted: 7th Apr 2007 11:39
This project looks really awesome! Keep it up, and you'll become rich and famous

Pastori AKA D-Eagle.
eek
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Posted: 8th Apr 2007 04:08
The defensive walking animation looked perfectly fine to me. The only one that really stood out was the regular walking animation. Keep it up!
Game King
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Posted: 8th Apr 2007 07:28 Edited at: 11th Jun 2007 18:53
Did u make this whole game by urself from scratch? Cause it looks awesome


Cherd
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Posted: 9th Apr 2007 04:13
im really looking forward to this, any plans to release a small demo in the not so distant future?

Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 9th Apr 2007 06:34
@Deagle -
Quote: "This project looks really awesome! Keep it up, and you'll become rich and famous"

Haha, I wish I don't think I'll make any profit off of this game. The problem is I'll be competing with games that have a budget. However, the real point of this is to have a published game that is compatible with my RPG Creator. That project should give myself and Alquerian some decent money.

@eek -
Quote: "The defensive walking animation looked perfectly fine to me. The only one that really stood out was the regular walking animation. Keep it up!"

Cool. It should look much better now. Like I said, I slowed down the walk animation. Before, it looked a bit like he had bars of soap stuck to his feet and he was slipping around on a slick floor. Now it looks just right to me. I slowed down the defensive walk a bit too. Thanks for the feedback

@Game King -
Quote: "Did u make this whole game by urself from scratch? Cause it looks awesome"

Well, I'm going to have to say yes to that. Of course, I didn't make every single component. I'm using lots of great DLLs, like Sparky's Collision, Dark Physics, Dark AI, Torrey's Audio Plugin, Unity, Cloth and Particles, to name a few. And I'm using code from a couple users, like Lost in Thought's Limb Culling routines (which I converted to a DLL) and Grant Clark's Pyro Particles. I hired Psionic to make the main character, and other models are stock models I've picked up from the Internet. I bought some of the music and I'm working with a couple musicians on some other music. I made all of the buildings, almost all of the textures, and many of the in game objects. So, it depends on your perspective I suppose.

I've written about 18,000 lines of code so far, of which 15,000 are 100% mine. I started this game as a box moving around inside of a house, you can see the thread in Game Design Theory. This game started out as a blank DBP window and an idea, and here we are.

@Cherd -
Quote: "im really looking forward to this, any plans to release a small demo in the not so distant future?"

I'm going to release an engine demo to a couple people, and later on a game demo to those same testers. It is by invite only though, I need to keep it small and secure. I want this game to get finished very badly, I'm doing everything I can to make that happen


Come see the WIP!
greenlig
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Posted: 10th Apr 2007 02:44
Looking great cash!

I fired up H&G the other day and I must say, leaving it alone for a month, then returning to it and playing, it has a lot of potential!!

This game is looking very sweet too. Love the new model and all, and the combat system looks very good. If you need a tester, gimmie a yell.

Now to stop those snakes mauling my children.....

Have a good one mate!

Greenlig

Blender3D - GIMP - WINXP - DBPro
Osiris
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Posted: 10th Apr 2007 03:11
Cash, my email is Osirus1156@gmail.com if and when you need a tester.

Your signature has been erased by a mod because it's larger than 600x120....
Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 10th Apr 2007 09:57
@greenlig -

Yeah, I think there's a lot of potential in H&G. All of the new stuff in Geisha House is portable to H&G. The new flag system will allow us to script an entire game. The mini-game that you have is hard coded. Plus, the plugins that I'm creating will help to speed the game up.

It was cool for me to see the children grow up into warriors. It has RTS elements, but really differs in the sense that you can't just magically create new units and send them to their deaths without a second thought.

I sure hope that we can continue with it, I really like the concept. I e-mailed Alan the other day, Friday I think, just asking if he knew anything else.

I'm glad you like how GH is coming along. I'm taking the time to fine tune a lot of systems that I really didn't have time to before. I've taken a lot of time with combat, because I want the game to be fun to play. I've also sunk a bit of money that I don't really have into this project.

As far as testing, you're definitely on the list. I'll have two tests, an engine test and then a game test.

@Osiris -
Well, I'm not sure what the requirements will be, but I'll definitely keep you in mind What projects have you worked on? I consider some good experience with DBP a plus for these tests.


Come see the WIP!
Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 10th Apr 2007 19:29 Edited at: 10th Apr 2007 19:34
Double post, minor update. I don't have time to put it to video yet. Besides, I want the update to be more significant when I do. I've added quite a few nice things, but I've got more.



The interface has actually been working all along, you can see it popping up annoyingly in the videos. I've got a bit to tweaking to do to it, the sword is sticking up a bit too much at the bottom. The shield also covers up the attack icon, but no biggie.

More buttons will be added, I've just added some of the important ones - Attack mode, inventory, paperdoll. At first I just had keyboard shortcuts, but that makes it hard for someone to use the game. I think I'll add the keyboard shortcut to the description though.

It supports two layers of buttons per character, so I can easily include some skills on the second layer. Geisha house won't use them, but they'll be available for future games.

Now I'll use the menu in videos instead of pretending it's not there.


Come see the WIP!

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Inspire
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Posted: 10th Apr 2007 19:30
This looks great.

Bizar Guy
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Posted: 11th Apr 2007 04:21
What does paperdoll do (or is that for the next update)?

Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 11th Apr 2007 04:30
That brings up a paperdoll image of the character, along with stats. You'll be able to arm weapons by dragging objects into his hands on the paperdoll. I'm only doing weapons for Geisha House though, no armor or clothes, unfortunately. That will be for v2.

The paperdoll completely works, I just haven't made Knight graphics for it. It's a pain because it's 2D, so I have to get images of every weapon that's available. I'll do it soon, just a lot of work.


Come see the WIP!
Osiris
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Posted: 11th Apr 2007 05:03
Well cash, ive been playin with DBC for a while but I don't own pro, not sure how much difference it is, except pro is generally better haha.

Your signature has been erased by a mod because it's larger than 600x120....
Diggsey
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Posted: 11th Apr 2007 19:30 Edited at: 11th Apr 2007 19:31
The fighting is REALLY good!!!

PS
I'll test!!!

(I'm usually very good at making things go messed up)

Steve J
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Posted: 12th Apr 2007 04:24
@Cash: If you have 3ds versions of your weapons I could make a few high quality 2048x2048 image of them so you could scale them down a lot in different sizes.

pleading and needing and bleeding and breeding and feeding exceeding..where is everybody? trying and lying defying denying crying and dying..where is everybody?
Shadow Coderer
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Posted: 13th Apr 2007 20:02
That interface is looking nice!

I would be happy to test the demo when it comes out, as are most people I expect...
Also, which exporter do you use in milkshape, the JT one or directx 8.1? Thanks!

"Psst! Brian! There's a message in my alphabet soup. It says, 'oooooooooo!'"
"Peter, those are Cheerios."
Gil Galvanti
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Posted: 14th Apr 2007 19:28
Nice UI . Just a tip that your probably already using, and may not even be a good one, to make the 2D representations of the 3D weapons, I just open the object up in some sort of program where you can view the object by itself (like the program it was made in or just a DBP project where you can move the camera around it), get a good angle of the entire object, take a screenshot, delete everything but the object in a 2D editor (PSP 9 for me), resize the image to the correct size, and then save that as a .png to use in the game .


Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 15th Apr 2007 10:34
@Osiris -
DBC has advantages over DBP I'm sure, but I was never interested in using it. DBP isn't as stable (things can change drastically between updates), but it is more powerful.

@Diggsey -
I appreciate it! It's fun to fight in the game, and it requires strategy and action to fight well.

@Steve J -
All of them are actually in 3ds format already. That sounds cool, but I don't quite follow what you are suggesting what we can do with those images. What did you have in mind?

@Shadow Coderer -
Quote: "Also, which exporter do you use in milkshape, the JT one or directx 8.1? Thanks!"

I use both. The JT exporter is great for animated models, and the 8.1 exporter is good for non animated models. JT models must have a bone in order to export, and I prefer a clean model. The 8.1 exporter doesn't require a bone.

Glad you like the interface. Hopefully I didn't over decorate it
One thing though, it won't be on screen unless you're using it. I like total immersion, unecessary 2D graphics displease me.

@Gil Galvanti -
I appreciate the advice. I actually made a DBP program for this already. The paperdolls overlay the weapons on top of the character. So, I get a shot of the character with no weapons, and then I get pictures of the weapons glued to his hands but with the character hidden. Then I don't have to delete anything, I have just the weapon. If they aren't positioned exactly right it will look terrible.

************************************


I'll have a video soon. I've been working away on different things. One thing that took me a while was getting the character to slide down slopes that are too steep. I'm pretty picky about how everything looks, and everything I was doing was displeasing me. Now he slides down with a nice gravely sound and a puff of dust. I still want to get the magic system up for the video though.


Come see the WIP!
Steve J
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Posted: 15th Apr 2007 21:58
You could use them for many uses besides the main use (for the paper doll system), big versions for the menu perhaps (like a sword where the button system is on), or even for the gui, many many uses. The high res versions could be used for box art, or even on the website, ect. Just a suggestion.

pleading and needing and bleeding and breeding and feeding exceeding..where is everybody? trying and lying defying denying crying and dying..where is everybody?
zenassem
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Posted: 16th Apr 2007 01:26 Edited at: 20th Apr 2007 19:58
First off I haven't read every page and post. But from the screenshots I liked a lot of what I saw. Good luck with everything

Now a general question that is also related to your project.

EDIT: I re-asked my question in the 3D discussion forums, where it was more appropriate. So I'll remove it from here.
bass guy1669
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Posted: 20th Apr 2007 19:54
your weapon equiping sound alot like Rage of Mages style, and THIS GAME LOOKS AWESOME KEEP IT UP

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Shadow Coderer
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2007 15:22
How do you keep your animated model file sizes down so low? I'm asking this after seeing your post in mike inels entry in the nvidia compo. Looking forward to a new update!

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ozmoz
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Posted: 25th Apr 2007 21:04
this is very nice job
DB newbie
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Posted: 28th Apr 2007 18:48
any updates?


Come see the WIP!

Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 28th Apr 2007 21:05 Edited at: 28th Apr 2007 21:05
Sorry for the delay guys, I've added lots of stuff. I just don't want the video to look the same as the last.

Right now I'm working on mirrors. I've set up a very flexible and efficient system to look the best with the least overhead. If a mirror is on screen it reduces the framerate by 5, which is certainly acceptable. The only limitation I've imposed is that only one mirror can be on screen at one time. The mirror plain is shared between all mirrors.

Here's a test picture. It's quite common to find mirrors out in the wilderness...



The mirrors can double as portals. The mirrors can be set into a miniature building and the camera positioned elsewhere, with a hidden teleporter inside of the thing. It's all looking pretty good so far, I just need to make the lighting and gloss shader look right.

I've added a bunch more, I'll get a video out as soon as I add the magic system back in. It could be another week before I have a major update.

@Shadow Coderer -
Most exported models have a time factor of > 1. When that happens, it just copies frames to slow down that animation. That is the worst possible method of achieving this. Dark Matter 2 models are the worst, they have 160x the number of frames they have, and as a consequence are 160x the size they should be. A Dark Matter 2 model can go from 8mb to 250kb with proper exporting.

Extra frames are totally unecessary in DBP because DBP auto interpolates between frames. For example, frame 1.5 is interpolated right between frames 1 and 2. Models with 100 frames per animation create huge models. Around 20 frames is enough. The animations will look just as smooth as 100, it will just be far more efficient.

The last thing you can do is to export in binary mode. You shouldn't ever need to edit an animated model in Notepad, so there's no need to keep it in ACII mode.

Small models work so much better than big ones. It's not all about polygon counts, 1mb models with 2500 polys work much much better than 8mb models with 1000 polys.

@ozmoz -
Thanks! I appreciate that

@DB newbie -
Of course! Very minor though, just because I haven't updated lately. I'll have a video out in about a week, I think.


Come see the WIP!

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Xenocythe
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Posted: 29th Apr 2007 05:13
Looks very cool Cash

Only one problem though...

Mirrors show reflection because they are actually reflecting light. The problem is that your mirror is very dark. Maybe just brighten up the image from the camera.

Agent Dink
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Posted: 29th Apr 2007 06:16
Actually, I don't think that the mirror should be affected by any lights int the scene. The mirror plane should be full bright. Since it's reflecting everything, if your scene is dark, the mirror will be dark. Also, I don't think mirrors are glossy... maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think they ever get a sheen on them like normal glass does, since it's a reflection...

Mirrors are pretty wierd...

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Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 29th Apr 2007 07:23
Yeah, the mirror is pretty dark, that's what I'm working on right now.

Mirrors aren't exactly glossy either, they'll usually have a bright reflection spot if anything. That's pretty hard to reproduce though, so the gloss shader is probably my best bet here. I can't just have it it full bright, because then it will just look like a pasted camera texture. I need a bit of a light effect.

Two very easy things I'll do are change the incident of light, and brighten the gloss texture. I want to use gloss on this because it's a single pass shader, which is as fast as I can hope a shader to be. I'll get it fixed soon


Come see the WIP!
Sven B
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Posted: 29th Apr 2007 13:36
You probably just have to turn off the light (set object light mirror, 0). Textured verteces are affected by the DBP lights all around your game. Mirrors just reflect all the light, and don't darken the reflected image if they stand in the shadows.

I know I don't reply much in this thread, but I have been following it for quite some time though.
It's turning out quite nice!

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Have a problem, solve the problem, and have a new problem to solve.
TEH_CODERER
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Posted: 29th Apr 2007 15:20
Quote: "they'll usually have a bright reflection spot if anything."

Perhaps a simplified bloom shader?

Either way, still looking as awesome as ever!

Dr Manette
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Posted: 2nd May 2007 03:09
Nice, that's an effect that you can totally use to make game play more fun. Maybe a mirror could show a chest that you can't see other wise? Just a thought.

Are you going to be able to change the position of the camera so that it isn't directly above the player. Would it be possible to change the elevation distance, especially with walls and mirrors, which would look better with a more horizontal view?

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