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Work in Progress / RPG - Geisha House. Image intensive!!

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Gil Galvanti
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Posted: 24th May 2007 21:41
Awesome video . I have a couple questions and a suggestion.

My only complaint is that it seems a bit annoying to have to chase around the talk button, and you seem to try to click on it a few times before actually hitting it. I'm not sure what you could do to solve this, maybe stop the character if your cursor passes over his talk box? Of course it's not a big deal if you don't want to fix it .

Also, some questions. How are you doing the water? I'm assuming it's just a scrolling seamless transparent texture on a plane? Are you stretching it across the entire map for a uniform water level, or having different levels of water in different parts of the map? For the dialogue, how are you doing it, if you don't mind me asking? I'm working on speech for my project (Pirates of Port Royale) as well, and am wondering what methods others are using .

Anyways, looking great .


Bizar Guy
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Posted: 24th May 2007 22:14
Ha, "I think it's really lukewarm piss"

It's really cool that he actually is able to say more than just about the quest.


The game I was talking about was an on rails shooter like starfox, called Hyper Nova. I think it looked like the greatest on rails shooter ever, and I still have the last vid of it. Then, suddenly, it disappeared, and the forum user making it never posted again. Also, this is much larger and more complex, it's just that Hyper Nova was extremely professional, and the visuals and camera work was amazing.

And I can say that this is easily the best dbpro rpg I've seen. I can't say seen or played, because I haven't played it yet.

Roxas
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Location: http://forum.thegamecreators.com
Posted: 24th May 2007 22:50
U mean this project Bizar Guy?



I miss it too.. I think the guy leaved because of hes Own Languance.. He said hes working on hes languance and will be back soon but he dint come back

Anyways

Cash Ur conversation system is great! Only thing what i dont like is if u on mistake skip some of the text and u click again on the same question the npc bring addiotinal info so u cant hear the first info of npc again.. Also its kinda lame the main char says "Whats wrong on the bridge?" He says : "They all are full armed!"


[B] - LINKIN PARK - [/B]
Bizar Guy
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Posted: 25th May 2007 00:04
Yeah, that's it. Here's the last vid he posted.

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Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 25th May 2007 05:17 Edited at: 25th May 2007 05:24
@Alquerian -
Quote: "Cash, you really don't give yourself enough credit when others compliment you, so knock it off and quit pretending to be modest."

My wife says that I'm the most modest arrogant person she's ever met Really though, I always love the compliments, but the truth is that a WIP doesn't matter one bit until it's finished, so I do feel a bit weird about them. There are so many finished games that don't get much attention. Once GH is finished I'll act better.

Quote: "The video was amazing. It transformed your game."

I guess I'm too close to the game to have seen it, but I'm REALLY glad that you feel this way. All of the work has really paid off. I really want each part of the game to transform it. Hopefully when I reintroduce magic everyone will feel the same way about it.

@Benjamin -
Quote: "Looks very smart! It's great how you manage to improve the quality every time in certain areas, some people just make things a certain way and can never see how to improve upon it. "

Thanks! I'm sure glad that you think so, especially since it's so hard to make out the details from that tiny video. It turned out almost how I envisioned. I actually wanted the icons to unfold from the enter above the NPCs head out in both directions. That proved to be mathematically monstrous, so I settled for their current behavior.

Trying to improve an existing system is probably the hardest thing in a project like this. I wish I'd planned a little better in the beginning. Honestly, I was so eager to make a WIP post that I neglected a few areas. But, this is my baby, and I want every single area to be just right.

That dwarf was acting pretty rude. I thought I'd fixed that problem. It's very easy to fix, so in the next video he won't do that.

Quote: "I've noticed you make NPCs give extra information when you ask the same question twice."

Yeah, this is really the weakness of the system right now. That, and I don't parse the speech into a paragraph. I'm going to change it so that the question changes, even though it's the same topic. Also, I'll add the paragraph format so that more information can be stated at once.

@Gil Galvanti -
Yeah, chasing the button is a bit annoying sometimes. I stop the character while they're talking, but not before you start. I didn't want the player to be able to freeze characters needlessly. However, I think I'll change it and just make any other event cause the NPC to break free. They already do if they acquire an attack target, so it won't be hard to change that behavior.

Quote: "How are you doing the water?"

I'm using plains. The texture, however, is not being scrolled, it's an actual texture animation. Scrolling doesn't look nearly as good as a real animation. The water is plains (which sadly, you can see at times). They are tiles, and you can have any number of groups of tiles on the map. The ocean is one set. Each river, pond, swamp, waterfall, etc. is another set. Every set can be rotated, can oscillate, and a few other things. I'm also using a uniform gloss shader on the tiles.

A better method, as dark coder has recommended, would be to use low res meshes for each body of water. They would look better than plains, and I could actually deform the water. I'm not sure if I'm going to go that route, my main interest is having a method of creating water that's not too hard for end users using the RPG Editor.

Quote: "For the dialogue, how are you doing it, if you don't mind me asking?"

Well, I do mind. Just kidding I saw the conversation system that you're working on in your game. That's a perfectly good system. I just wanted something that felt a little more dynamic in GH, as it would fit in with the rest of the game better. First, I predefine all of the talk icons. Each character has a speech script. Each script defines the topics of conversation, along with game flags that are tied into the speech system. Each speech script also has a section which defines which topics are open and which ones are closed. The system will iterate through all topics and display only the icons that are open. A topic can open or close another one. Once the speech occurs, game flags can be set. Also, speech might be closed if it is dependent upon a game flag.

That probably doesn't make much sense. It's a pretty complicated system, to be quite honest. Even if I posted the code it wouldn't do much good, because you'd have to adapt your entire program to match GH's UDT structure, which would be a nightmare (it's a nightmare every time I make a mini project like I did!). It feels like a watch with lots of tiny gears, you mess with one the whole watch explodes.

I highly recommend creating sub systems as a separate project, making sure that the code is directly portable to your main project. I copied only the code that was necessary.

If you have any more specific questions, I'd be happy to answer them.

I'm glad that you like GH so far

@Bizar Guy -
Oh yeah, Cage Complex! He's French, and the French seem to have magical powers when it comes to game development. He joined around the same time that I did. We released our first DBP games around the same time. I was so proud of Pong y2k, but it felt like a big wheel of old moldy cheese compared to his puzzle game.

Too bad he took off. I wish he'd stayed on with DBP for his personal, casual projects. One time he said that he was tired of entering competitions because he always won. I didn't even think it an arrogant comment, just tired and true.

Quote: "It's really cool that he actually is able to say more than just about the quest.
"

Yeah, I think that's really important. Otherwise, characters won't have a personality. If you don't have personalities, you can't really have a story.

I'll make all plot essential conversation easy to access. However, I'm going to add several layers of extra stuff, just in case a player wants to explore the characters more. I always love the feeling that you've discovered something that other people haven't.

Quote: "And I can say that this is easily the best dbpro rpg I've seen."

Thank you That just made my day.
It's actually pretty fun to play already, hopefully everyone agrees when they get their hands on it!!

Awesome video, crazy that he made that in DBP

@The Full Metal Coder Roxas -
Quote: "Cash Ur conversation system is great!"

Thanks!! That's just what I was hoping for

Most topics of conversation will repeat the first phrase if you keep talking. Some won't, like asking his name. That topic closes afterward. But, why would you keep asking someones name?

Like I told Benjamin, one of the current weaknesses of the system is that the question doesn't change, even though the answer reflects a different question on the same topic. When he says "They're heavily armed.", the PC should really have asked a different question. I'll add that ability.

*******************************************************


Steins of warm piss all around!! Thanks guys, your interest is a real motivation.


Come see the WIP!
Gil Galvanti
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Posted: 25th May 2007 07:49
Quote: "@Gil Galvanti -
Yeah, chasing the button is a bit annoying sometimes. I stop the character while they're talking, but not before you start. I didn't want the player to be able to freeze characters needlessly. However, I think I'll change it and just make any other event cause the NPC to break free. They already do if they acquire an attack target, so it won't be hard to change that behavior.

Quote: "How are you doing the water?"
I'm using plains. The texture, however, is not being scrolled, it's an actual texture animation. Scrolling doesn't look nearly as good as a real animation. The water is plains (which sadly, you can see at times). They are tiles, and you can have any number of groups of tiles on the map. The ocean is one set. Each river, pond, swamp, waterfall, etc. is another set. Every set can be rotated, can oscillate, and a few other things. I'm also using a uniform gloss shader on the tiles.

A better method, as dark coder has recommended, would be to use low res meshes for each body of water. They would look better than plains, and I could actually deform the water. I'm not sure if I'm going to go that route, my main interest is having a method of creating water that's not too hard for end users using the RPG Editor.

Quote: "For the dialogue, how are you doing it, if you don't mind me asking?"

Well, I do mind. Just kidding I saw the conversation system that you're working on in your game. That's a perfectly good system. I just wanted something that felt a little more dynamic in GH, as it would fit in with the rest of the game better. First, I predefine all of the talk icons. Each character has a speech script. Each script defines the topics of conversation, along with game flags that are tied into the speech system. Each speech script also has a section which defines which topics are open and which ones are closed. The system will iterate through all topics and display only the icons that are open. A topic can open or close another one. Once the speech occurs, game flags can be set. Also, speech might be closed if it is dependent upon a game flag.

That probably doesn't make much sense. It's a pretty complicated system, to be quite honest. Even if I posted the code it wouldn't do much good, because you'd have to adapt your entire program to match GH's UDT structure, which would be a nightmare (it's a nightmare every time I make a mini project like I did!). It feels like a watch with lots of tiny gears, you mess with one the whole watch explodes.

I highly recommend creating sub systems as a separate project, making sure that the code is directly portable to your main project. I copied only the code that was necessary.
"

Okay, cool, thanks for answering those . I think I understand what you mean with your dialogue, just making certain topics open other ones. So how are you doing events triggering topics and topics triggering events? The same way as topics opening/closing topics? I know what you mean with the UDT/arrays thing, I have the same problem and my code is only 4000 lines, I can't imagine what your projects like .


Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 25th May 2007 07:59 Edited at: 26th May 2007 14:24
Np

Quote: "So how are you doing events triggering topics and topics triggering events? The same way as topics opening/closing topics?"

It's my flag system. When a flag is triggered, anything can happen. It can just store the new value of the flag. Or, the flag can call any number of game functions. It can create new items, create explosions, teleport entities, etc. I've enabled all major game functions through scripting.

One such function can open or close topics of conversations. When you talk about something, it can both close and open topics and set game flags. By default you can only open 1 topic and close 1 topic, but you can add a flag to it to open or close any number of topics.

So, each system can modify the other. The ultimate power is the flag system, which is how you'll build quests through scripts. I've built it around the various quests and missions that will be part of Geisha House, so it is very well developed.


Come see the WIP!
Diggsey
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Posted: 25th May 2007 20:21
Looks really great, it's just very difficult to read the text in that video. (I imagine it's much easier to read when you're actually playing the game.) The black top of the text fades it into the dark background.

Gil Galvanti
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Posted: 25th May 2007 21:48 Edited at: 27th May 2007 06:15
Quote: "It's my flag system. When a flag is triggered, anything can happen. It can just store the new value of the flag. Or, the flag can call any number of game functions. It can create new items, create explosions, teleport entities, etc. I've enabled all major game functions through scripting."

Oh, I see, that's smart, and flexible, I might have to borrow part of that idea if you don't mind .

EDIT: I decided against double posting even though it's been a day, I'll just hope you still see this . After starting to create a sort of flag system it ends up it's really just duplicating what I already have in a different way (triggers and events), so it's good to know I'm using a similar system to a game as great as this . Also, I had a question for you, what do you make your videos in? I'm trying to get a video for Pirates of Port Royale up, but can't find anything that's good enough quality and free. Thanks.


Supremacy
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Posted: 27th May 2007 15:21 Edited at: 27th May 2007 15:23
nevermind, good job!
Crazy Ninja
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Posted: 27th May 2007 15:55 Edited at: 27th May 2007 15:57
"I'd really prefer to live."

Good job Cash! [Edited out my suggestion, realized it's ok] It's coming along great Cash, really looks like your putting time into it.

Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 27th May 2007 19:07 Edited at: 27th May 2007 19:07
@Gil Galvanti -
I posted in your thread. It looks like you figured everything out, which is definitely good.

@Supremacy -
Quote: "nevermind, good job!"

Okay, thanks

@Crazy Ninja -
Quote: "Good job Cash! [Edited out my suggestion, realized it's ok] It's coming along great Cash, really looks like your putting time into it."

Haha, it must be two minute edit day. Thanks, I appreciate it Yeah, lots and lots of time dedicated to this, and still a lot more to do.


Come see the WIP!
Shadow Coderer
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Posted: 27th May 2007 21:13 Edited at: 27th May 2007 21:13
That last vid was pretty cool, if I may say so! My reason for this is: it seemed like a promo vid from a professionally made RPG - a chat with the local whoever-it-was who informs you of some hooligans terrorising his beloved bridge. And then you casually stroll over and deliver extra orrifices for all whom stand in your way! I liked the way that it wasnt an official mission as such, you just learned of it and did it when you pleased. Will the finished game work like this? Also showcased was your inventory and random comment system "I think I'd rather live"... nice!

"Psst! Brian! There's a message in my alphabet soup. It says, 'oooooooooo!'"
"Peter, those are Cheerios."
Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 28th May 2007 02:22
Quote: "I liked the way that it wasnt an official mission as such, you just learned of it and did it when you pleased."

Thanks! That's the feeling that I'm going for. I mean, you show up at this place, and there are no cosmic fortunetellers or magical talking oracles to tell you everything that's going down, you just have to find out as you go.

Quote: "Will the finished game work like this?"

Absolutely. I'm a fan of a dynamic game, and a real story. I want the player to feel like they are really participating in the plot with the characters. I think too often it's just taken for granted that the play cares about what is going on.

Quote: "Also showcased was your inventory and random comment system "I think I'd rather live"... nice!"

Yeah, I hope to give the game a sense of intelligence and interaction. And sarcasm and humor along the way I didn't actually show the inventory system yet, it's still a little screwy. I'll fix that along with the magic system though.

I'm glad you liked it! The video wasn't even anything particularly special, but I love that you felt it was professional looking. I absolutely cannot wait to put together a real game trailer.


Come see the WIP!
Xenocythe
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Posted: 28th May 2007 02:38
This is coming along very, very nicely! I'm glad that all this time you've spent is paying off to become a great game. When this finishes, I know it will be one of the best games made by DarkBasic Professional. Great work Cash, keep it up.

And thank you for the advice and help online. Your great.

Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 28th May 2007 06:25
Quote: "This is coming along very, very nicely! I'm glad that all this time you've spent is paying off to become a great game. When this finishes, I know it will be one of the best games made by DarkBasic Professional. Great work Cash, keep it up."

Thanks! I certainly hope it's a great game. I'll just keep working on it!

Quote: "And thank you for the advice and help online. Your great."

Well, maybe that's stretching the truth a bit If you need help again don't hesitate to ask.


Come see the WIP!
Zombie 20
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Posted: 28th May 2007 19:15
Cash- Hey congrats on this, i've been following your thread on this and I have to say it is quite impressive. I wish you all the luck with you on this project and I read somewhere that you had 19,000 lines of code!!! so..much..code . Anyway, keep up the good work, it looks great!! How much are you charging for when it comes out? I'll buy it.

zombie

Deathead
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Posted: 29th May 2007 00:01
Yeah Zombie it'll be a great game to be published and in stores for pc users i'd admit!

My Avatar is copyright to John F's Wick Models
Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 29th May 2007 03:07
@Zombie 20 -
Excellent! Always glad to hear about people following the game's progress. I took off the weekend, but I'm getting back to work on it now.

Quote: "How much are you charging for when it comes out? I'll buy it."

And of course, that's the best news of all That's really up to the publisher, it will probably be $12 or something. I don't have the greatest publisher in the world (shhh don't tell), but they're okay and have good distribution.

@Deathead -
Quote: "it'll be a great game to be published and in stores for pc users i'd admit!"

Thanks


Come see the WIP!
Deathead
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Posted: 29th May 2007 14:31
Quote: "And of course, that's the best news of all That's really up to the publisher, it will probably be $12 or something. I don't have the greatest publisher in the world (shhh don't tell), but they're okay and have good distribution."


It'll probably be £6 over here or maybe more, i bet you if you sent it to an big world wide publisher just to try it they'll probably like it and maybe publish it.

My Avatar is copyright to John F's Wick Models
Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 29th May 2007 17:05
I thought I'd post this to the new page to get more views. I won't have a new video for about two weeks, so this will fit nicely at the top of the page.

@Deathead -
My publisher has distribution world wide. We've talked about translating the game into a couple different languages, especially for Europe. We'll see how it turns out I suppose

******************************************************


Quote: "Okay guys, you've all been demanding it, begging for it, yelling at me for it. Here it is, the most over hyped presentation ever. Be warned, it isn't all that great. It does demonstrate some important changes and additions to the game.

First and foremost, conversation. The system uses a point and click GUI icon system. When you talk to someone, possible topics of conversation pop up. You select what you want, and various things can happen. They'll talk about it. That can unlock or lock other topics, and activate other game flags, which can do anything. It can unlock areas, lock them, cause events to happen, etc.

None of it is hard coded. It's all scripted, and it's very easy to modify the conversations without recompiling. Flags as well. The two systems work very closely together.

Characters can say things by themselves as well. If the game wants to warn you about something, the main character will tell you about it now. A slope might be too steep, or he might not want to enter the water. Now he'll tell you about it.

So, those are some other additions. I've added the ability to limit movement on steep slopes. The main character can no longer enter the water (because of his armor, other characters can swim around freely). All characters have footstep sounds. Those sounds are secondary to the main character's footsteps, which take precedence. The effect satisfies me.

I've also added mirrors. Unfortunately, LuaEdit eats code. Not in the normal way you might think either. About once a month it will crash. When it does it will delete every .lua file in the directory of the failed file. Unfortunately, it's been 3 weeks since I've backed up my script files, so I lost all of my mirror scripts. Thus, you don't get to see the mirrors in final form. That will be in another video down the road when I feel like adding mirror scripts back in.

So, it's been an update of details, no huge spectacular things like the battle system. Those kinds of updates are the most fun because they are so visually noticable."


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hv6nGhOZsy8


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hv6nGhOZsy8


Quote: "I've got a few kinks to work out. One important thing is that somehow my zooming in and out functionality is now broken. I have no idea how, the systems are in no way related, at all. I added in my conversation code from the capsule guy program, and everything worked for the most part, but that was instantly broken. I'll figure it out, just plainly annoying.

One thing that slowed me down was modifying the LUA arrays. It was quite painful to accomplish. Here's what I had to pass to the LUA system...
[quote]speech["dwarf"][1]["open"]=0"


But here is how it looks in DBP code form...


Special thanks to monotonic for his unwitting help. A previous post of his helped me to modify the LUA arrays exactly how I needed to make this work.

That's all for now, hope you all enjoy. I'm going to take the weekend off. Later!!![/quote]


Come see the WIP!
Wiggett
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Posted: 29th May 2007 18:11
lookin pretty spiffy there cash, very ultimaish font and overhead floating text. I like the system to select the questions, but I can see it becoming very fiddly and a high chance of pressing the wrong thing when in a rush. Will there be a message history or word wrap function?

Syndicate remastered: Corporate persuasion through urban violence.
Alquerian
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Posted: 29th May 2007 20:06
I rewatched (and rated) your video Cash, and the only suggestion is about your footsteps. They seem a little too loud, almost like he is intentionally stomping. I do like the idle conversation animations though, it is a nice touch

Visit the Wip!
Deathead
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Posted: 29th May 2007 23:32
Quote: "@Deathead -
My publisher has distribution world wide. We've talked about translating the game into a couple different languages, especially for Europe. We'll see how it turns out I suppose"

I'd love to buy it cash i'm a RPG man love oblivion going out doing quests and killing poor beggars.

My Avatar is copyright to John F's Wick Models
Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 30th May 2007 12:16 Edited at: 30th May 2007 12:18
@Wiggett -
I'm glad that you like it! The floating text is very Ultima-ish. Even though it's very UO, it was used heavily in Ultima 7 Part 2. People would move around talking amongst themselves. It gave everything a very dynamic and lifelike feel.

I agree, it can cause some problems when things are moving quickly. The video showed that well enough, it was difficult one time for me to get the Dwarf's attention. What I'll probably do is make him move slower when his icons are open. I suppose it will be like he's aware you're there, and you might say something, but not enough to get his full attention.

Message History - Probably. Since it's an RPG, that could be very handy. That will be at the top of my Probably To-Do List
Word Wrap - Absolutely. I'm working on that right now. I've added Dark Coder's wonderful string manipulation functions to the mini project and I'm setting the system up.


@Alquerian -
I appreciate that I can always count on you to give my videos accurate feedback and comments. The other 94 people that watched the video should be ashamed of themselves.

The footsteps are too loud. I can fix that pretty easily. Thanks for noticing that.

The conversation animations will be better in the next video, because I'll zoom in. Like I said, I accidentally broke my mouse wheel zooming in this update (don't ask me how). Just wait until you see the spellcasting animation, it's completely awesome. Definitely a benefit of good planning, all of the animations are just awesome.


@Deathead -
Quote: "I'd love to buy it"

That is the absolute greatest thing anyone can say It will be good for the community, and great for me , plus we'll get a huge influx of RPG noobs here asking how to make MMORPGs...


Come see the WIP!
Deathead
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Posted: 30th May 2007 13:04
Quote: "That is the absolute greatest thing anyone can say It will be good for the community, and great for me , plus we'll get a huge influx of RPG noobs here asking how to make MMORPGs... "

I see that alot lately...What makes an mmorpg easier than a rpg?
Weird.

My Avatar is copyright to John F's Wick Models
Bizar Guy
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Posted: 30th May 2007 14:15
I will definitely buy this as well. I think it would be silly of me not to, after following it so closely. The estimated price is a lot lower than I expected, but distribution is a lot more important I guess.

For a moment I thought you said world wrap.

dark coder
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Posted: 30th May 2007 14:33
Hey,

It looks a lot better than before, but the water is bugging me :p any chance of an update on those? it could quite easily be made to look a lot better, well not that easily if you want ti to look very good but it currently looks like white water rapid on a plain and yet the player walks into it no problems and there is no particle froth / foam around the sides to make it look less of a plain.

tiresius
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Posted: 30th May 2007 15:55
Hey Cash-

The conversation system looks cool, with those icons and all that. I'd suggest that you have whoever you're talking to stop and actually talk to you instead of saying something and then immediately trying to move around. Give them like 5-10 seconds and if the player doesn't click on another icon then they will go away and stop talking. Seems tedious to have to select the NPC everytime you have to ask him a question.

Of course if the NPC doesn't like the player or is generally rude, then they could just give a quick answer and walk away. But otherwise it makes the NPC look like they don't want to talk to you.

I'm not a real programmer but I play one with DBPro!
bass guy1669
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Posted: 30th May 2007 19:02
hey cash i think you should scintilla editor for the LUA stuff. and your talking system is it that you touch the person in question or you click on him.

come see night shift at http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=106003&b=25 see you there
Deathead
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Posted: 30th May 2007 23:58
I have just made an very catchy rap for this game...

It was made with DBpro.
And now Cash is gonna make some dough!
I wonder why the dwarf likes lukewarm piss!
This game is something you won't miss.

Deathead out!
LOL!

And Dark Coderer i think the water looks like it can be updated alittle.

My Avatar is copyright to John F's Wick Models
Dr Manette
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Location: BioFox Games hq
Posted: 31st May 2007 00:37
Yea, the water was the thing that stuck out the most. Especially since you could plainly see that they were just plains. Other than that, very very nice. Seems like a game I'd be willing to play, and more importantly (to you ) pay for.

Zombie 20
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Posted: 31st May 2007 15:37
Don't know how much help i'll be. I like your conversations that pop on the screen that's pretty cool. *espcially about gimili * As a complete rookie, i don't see anything to fix but i bet all these guys and gals know something i don't . Good work, keep it up .

Deathead
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Posted: 31st May 2007 17:46
@Cash-Any Updates???

@Zombie- I can tell you this you are much better than me at DBC i can't even make an object move.

@Dr Manette- The water is really bugging me i also think the character should be able to swim because i think then cash can make some ancient treasure chests with very good items stuff in it.

My Avatar is copyright to John F's Wick Models
Cash Curtis II
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Location: Corpus Christi Texas
Posted: 31st May 2007 18:44 Edited at: 31st May 2007 19:41
@Deathead -
Quote: "I see that alot lately...What makes an mmorpg easier than a rpg?
Weird."

Yeah, you'd think that from the number of attempted MMORPGs there are. Making an MMORPG is serious business - it's an expensive commercial venture. Even if an indie made an MMORPG, the best you could hope for is to create an MMORPG maker (Realmcrafter anyone?)

Quote: "It was made with DBpro.
And now Cash is gonna make some dough!
I wonder why the dwarf likes lukewarm piss!
This game is something you won't miss."

Don't jinx me yet. You could say "And Cash has spent some dough!"

Quote: "And Dark Coderer i think the water looks like it can be updated alittle."

Yeah, it sure could be. It is the worst visual aspect of the game right now. It's so noticable in places where the plains join. I'd love to make something more realistic. The only reason I hesitate to change it is because of the RPG editor. I guess it depends on what type of water system Alquerian decides to go with, and how well it performs. I just need a system that is editable for end users.

Quote: "i also think the character should be able to swim"

Every character except the player can swim. This is for two reasons - he's wearing a suit of non-removable armor, and I want the player to have to cross the bridge in order to progress in the game.

Quote: "Any Updates???"

Of course! More or less, anyway...

@Bizar Guy -
Quote: "I will definitely buy this as well. I think it would be silly of me not to, after following it so closely. The estimated price is a lot lower than I expected, but distribution is a lot more important I guess."

As I said, that's the best possible thing I can hear People around here give wonderful feedback very generously, but are seldom willing to buy someone elses indie game. There's no way I can compete with other commercial games, but hopefully I can carve out my own tiny piece.

The price estimate is just an estimate. However, it's also based on the prices of some of their other titles. Like I mentioned, if I charged anywhere near full game retail price I wouldn't sell a single copy because I'd be competing with full budget commercial games. No way

Quote: "For a moment I thought you said world wrap"

I did...

@dark coder-
Quote: "It looks a lot better than before, but the water is bugging me :p any chance of an update on those?"

Not anytime soon, exactly. Like I said to Deathead, it depends largely on what type of water system Alquerian implements. I'm sure that anything will beat the plain system, but I'll have to wait to see what I'll do. Sometimes it looks okay, sometimes it looks like pure garbage. Especially in that video where the two plains didn't align properly. Yuck.

@tiresius -
Quote: "The conversation system looks cool"

Thanks

Quote: "I'd suggest that you have whoever you're talking to stop and actually talk to you instead of saying something and then immediately trying to move around."

Excellent suggestion. I'll change it to give them a 5 second delay, then move on. Right now it's a bit random, they might move off after the comment or they might not. Selecting a new comment is very easy, so I don't think that's a problem so much, but it definitely doesn't look realistic if they turn around every time a sentence is complete.

I'm going to implement a sort of 'feelings' and 'memory' system. If you do something bad, you'll increase your offensiveness to the NPCs. Bad enough and they'll flee/attack. A little bad and they'll try and avoid you. Drawing a weapon in front of people will be considered just short of criminal. Offense will gradually dissipate, but people won't forget if you just walk off screen or something.

@bass guy1669 -
Thanks for the suggestion, I'll check it out. I searched for it, and I got lots of results. Do you have a website for me, just to reduce my search time? I appreciate it

As for the talk system, you don't have to click on anyone. You hover the mouse over a character and the talk icon will appear. You then click on the appropriate icons. I could use this system for items later on as well, it could increase the complexity of the items.

@Dr Manette -
I appreciate that, like I said, people saying that they'd buy this is the best thing I can hear. The definitely means I'm not that far off from an acceptable game

Like I told Deathead and dark coder, the water system will get updated, just not right now. I don't want to do anything that might change with the editor and totally have to repeat the work on that part of the game.

************************************************************


It's been a grueling two and a half days. I've been working on the text wrapping system. It was pretty easy, I coded slowly and finished it pretty quickly anyway. But then, the most horrible bug I've every encountered popped up.

The game would simply crash whenever the NPC would speak. I figured it was the new text wrapping code I'd just added, especially since I didn't change anything else. After tons and tons of debugging, I finally found that I was looking in the wrong place. The crash was occurring in a totally stable part of the code, to the part of the code that used a LUA EXECUTE command to turn talk icons on or off.

Of course, there was nothing wrong with that line, it had been working great. I finally found out that a separate LUA call in a totally different part of the code was causing that other line to crash upon execution. However, both lines worked on their own, and they even worked together in a separate project. Just together in the talk system they didn't want to work together.

I finally changed the way I was accessing the LUA data, and all is good now. But what a terribly nasty bug. I don't even know why it didn't work, and I couldn't reproduce it in a separate project. Thankfully I was working on the mini project. Had I not it could have easily been a game killer. 1000 lines of code was hard enough to debug, 19000 might not have been possible.

So, that's taken care of. Word wrap works, and it does so properly. I can specify the amount of wrap, and it will work with any number of lines, and separately for every character.

I also fixed the problem of characters turning and moving when the player was talking. If was simply a misplaced IF statement.

I'll finish up the conversation system, especially adding the 5 second delay that was mentioned, then it's on to the dreaded magic system. Magic is ready, but my item system has to get finished in order to properly implement it.



Later!


Come see the WIP!

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bass guy1669
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Joined: 24th Mar 2007
Location: The Zone
Posted: 31st May 2007 22:03
Cash its http://scintilla.org i use it for my LUA stuff
and it supports other languages. but i like where this is going.

come see night shift at http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=106003&b=25 see you there
eek
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Posted: 31st May 2007 22:12
Lookin spiffy!
Deathead
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Posted: 1st Jun 2007 13:03
Quote: "Yeah, it sure could be. It is the worst visual aspect of the game right now. It's so noticable in places where the plains join. I'd love to make something more realistic. The only reason I hesitate to change it is because of the RPG editor. I guess it depends on what type of water system Alquerian decides to go with, and how well it performs. I just need a system that is editable for end users.
"


I think the water looks to bad to be the worst visual i think the bit of the game have to be that he can't run.

My Avatar is copyright to John F's Wick Models
Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 1st Jun 2007 18:49
@bass guy1669 -
Thanks! I'll check it out!

@eek -
Thanks!!

@Deathead -
Quote: "I think the water looks to bad to be the worst visual i think the bit of the game have to be that he can't run."

I really don't understand what you're saying. You think the water is the worst? Or you don't like the running? I don't follow you at all.

The water isn't that bad. I mean, it looks rather good in some places. The real weakness at the moment is I placed the tile groups manually, so the seams aren't perfect. And, I'd like a few extra effects, like foam. I'll get it how I want. But, it isn't the worst thing ever.

You guys probably haven't seen the landscape video. Very few people would watch my videos in WMV format. I've uploaded it to Youtube now so you guys can take a look. Or, try out the high res version.

Youtube video, instant gratification


High Res WMV video, 9mb


He can run too. He runs in most of the videos. Have you not seen them, or do you not like how it looks when he does?

***********************************************

I've been working on various things, tightening up the existing talk system for the most part. I fixed the camera zoom problem, it was actually caused because I lost the script and the cameraMax variable was set to 0, thus not allowing the camera to zoom in or out at all. The next video will look much better, higher detail.


Come see the WIP!
Roxas
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Posted: 1st Jun 2007 18:58
I have seen that video and water looks indecridble on this video..

But on conversation video the water just looks somewhat wrong? I think its the seams also was the water speed little too fast there?


[B] - LINKIN PARK - [/B]
Deathead
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Posted: 1st Jun 2007 20:07
Quote: "I really don't understand what you're saying. You think the water is the worst? Or you don't like the running? I don't follow you at all."


I mean that the character is never running in the vids or he has just sped up in walking, And i think by the way people are saying about the water is the worst thing in the game but i said that it isn't that bad to be called "the worst".

My Avatar is copyright to John F's Wick Models
Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 1st Jun 2007 20:15
Quote: "I mean that the character is never running in the vids"

He does, it's a running animation


Come see the WIP!
Game King
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Posted: 1st Jun 2007 22:49 Edited at: 11th Jun 2007 18:51
Wow, very impressive.

I have some questions:



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
* How long have you've been working with DBpro?

* How long have you've been game programming overall?

* Since you're married, you must be 20 something or older. If you are why did it take you so long to create such an advanced game?

* I have a developing team, but we're not sure if we should get a publisher for our first team game. Should we?

* What benefits do publishers give? do we have to pay them? How does it work?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Ok back on topic. I'm not feeling the combat system, when I look at the vids it seems like the combat system seems to repeat. For example: hit, block, hit, block, hit, block, ect. You should at more action in the fighting, like maybe you can rush an enemy and knock em down or, do combos on em. And make the enemies smarter they look dumb, like when they close to you they seen to slide around the character and take hits, and it takes them a while to block & attack.

Summary of my suggestions:
Add special moves to attacks but make it so that you can use them at anytime, and make sure it doesn't use up mana (I hate when games do that).
Add rush attacks, counter attacks, ect. It'll make it more funner
Make the enemy AI sharper

Well you're doing a great job on the game.

~GK


Zombie 20
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Location: Etters, PA
Posted: 2nd Jun 2007 01:54
Quote: "Since you're married, you must be 20 something or older. If you are why did it take you so long to create such an advanced game?"


I'm sorry, but that kinda ticked me off and I don't know how cash is going to respond to that. Are you insulting the guy?

tha_rami
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Location: Netherlands
Posted: 2nd Jun 2007 02:16
I think he means he thinks Cash could've done this much earlier with the skills he's showing now. Just a case of bad choice of words. The rest of the comment seems very upright and rather constructive (although limited in ways to fix things and extensive in things that are wrong). I don't think he was insulting and I don't think you should assume he was.

Geisha House is definitely on my watch list.

Zombie 20
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2007 02:44
Apologies Game King, I had just finished reading ellactica's threads and was in a bad mood. I hope i haven't offended you and rami's right, i flew off the handle there by accusing you. I'm sorry.

Game King
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2007 05:05 Edited at: 11th Jun 2007 18:52
Oh its ok. And no i was trying to insult him, I was just trying to find out why it took him long. For example if DBpro was hard to figure out or something...


Zombie 20
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2007 06:43
Game King-That's not exaclty fair, their are more variables to consider.

Time
Money
Plugins

Come on now...

Cash Curtis II
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Location: Corpus Christi Texas
Posted: 2nd Jun 2007 07:53
@Game King -
Quote: "* How long have you've been working with DBpro?"

Hmm... I'd guess that I started about... Apr 8th 2005. Give or take a few days I still didn't make any posts on the forum for a couple months until I'd finished my first game.

Quote: "* How long have you've been game programming overall?"

Since I was a kid, maybe 12 or 13. So, more than half my life.

Quote: "* Since you're married, you must be 20 something or older. If you are why did it take you so long to create such an advanced game?"

Because I never made an advanced game before this? Haha I know you aren't being offensive, still a bit of an odd question. Do you mean why did I wait until this point in my life to start this type of game, or why have I been working on this particular project for so long? I'll answer both, let me know if I missed the mark.

I waited until this point in my life because I didn't program at all while I was in the military. I was wholly dedicated to my job, and programming takes a lot of time. I wish I'd done it a bit, it was some years that I could have improved my skills. When I was younger I had Qbasic, QuickBasic, and VB6. I made all kinds of little games with those, but they weren't powerful enough to make anything good. I made an adventure game editor/game in Qbasic, and I started an Ultima remake in VB6, but the graphics commands really sucked. So, I lacked the tools necessary, the experience, and the money needed for something like this.

I've been working on this project for so long for a variety of reasons. And RPG is extraordinarily complicated, and most people just don't understand what has to go into it. The first RPG makers were true pioneers. I've come to really respect the guys who made Ultima, for instance. I've even been able to reproduce some of their GUI bugs in Geisha House

I've also taken two breaks working on paid projects. They paid well, and money never hurts, so I put GH on hold. Also, when I started my first incarnation of the RPG Engine (with the naked woman) I wasn't nearly ready to begin work on an RPG.

Quote: "* I have a developing team, but we're not sure if we should get a publisher for our first team game. Should we? "

Absolutely. A publisher already has distribution channels and money. Indie developers frequently try to market the game themselves, but there's no way to get wide exposure that way. I mean, you could make the next Snood and have wild random success, but that's not likely to be the case. A publisher can sell your game in stores and a variety of websites, they can advertise the game, they can hire artists to make the box art, etc. They'll deduct the initial costs from your profits, but it's a no risk situation - they're assuming the risk if the game makes no money. You win, because you have a shipped title and you are very employable. I've gotten two publishing offers so far for GH and I'm definitely going to take one.

Quote: "* What benefits do publishers give? do we have to pay them? How does it work?"

I guess I kind of answered this. They'll spend the money necessary to publish the game (box art, CDs, resale website costs, etc) and deliver them to their distribution channels (resale websits, and best case scenario to electronic stores). They'll deduct the startup costs from your profits. After you sell enough copies, you'll start to profit from each one. You might make no money, but you still have a published game. This is a very important requirement of employment as a game designer. Usually big companies require two shipped games, but one is great for a lot of companies, especially for a position of lower responsibility.

Quote: "You should at more action in the fighting, like maybe you can rush an enemy and knock em down or, do combos on em."

I have an attack power combo already, and you can bash the enemies with your shield. However, a nice addition to the combat system would be the ability to knock someone down. I like that idea and don't know why I didn't implement it already. It's already coded, I could set it up so that if you walk into an enemy and bash them at the same time they'll fall down.

I'll add some other things, like power combo flashes and sword arcs. The combat system feels really good to me, and is fun. There is a limit to the number of animations that I have, and I don't want to make it too complex. There are definitely areas that I can improve, and some of them easily.

And make the enemies smarter they look dumb, like when they close to you they seen to slide around the character and take hits, and it takes them a while to block & attack.

You can use your shield to counter attacks, the way it's set up adds to the arcade hack and slash element of the game. You can also block a blow with your weapon. As soon as magic is added, the player will have more options available as well.

The AI is using Dark AI. I can play around with the movement speed and turning speed, that might make the enemies look smarter, because they'll act faster. I'll see what I can do.

I just now saw this...
Quote: "I was just trying to find out why it took him long. For example if DBpro was hard to figure out or something..."

DBP wasn't hard to figure out, but making a large game like this takes some very disciplined programming techniques, and lots and lots of time. I had to learn a lot before I was qualified to start, and I've learned a ton since I've started. DBP did simplify the task a lot, I'd still be working on core elements if I were using some incarnation of C.

Thanks for the ideas

@The Full Metal Coder Roxas -
Yeah, the water doesn't look right where the lake joins the river. It's so noticable directly overhead. The landscape video is not overhead, so you can't really see the seam.

I've been talking to Alquerian and we've nearly figured out what we're going to do. We'll probably have a medium poly mesh that is deformed to the shape of the land. Also, we'll join the vertices between different bodies of water, eliminating the seams. It should work nicely. I'm still not sure what to do about foam and such...

@Deathead -
Quote: "I mean that the character is never running in the vids or he has just sped up in walking"

In the next video I'll get a closer shot of running and I'll see what you guys think of it. I'm pretty pleased with it so far, but we'll see.

Quote: "And i think by the way people are saying about the water is the worst thing in the game but i said that it isn't that bad to be called "the worst"."

That makes sense Also, I appreciate that.

@Zombie 20 -
No worries, but I appreciate the thought Ellactica's threads are pretty bad, I'm glad he's been found out.

Quote: "@tha_rami -"

Thanks! I got your e-mail, did you get my reply?


Come see the WIP!
Roxas
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2007 08:06
Heh.. I Was just saying how hard is to program rpg in my thread.. It needs lot of intrest in your project and some exprience (What i have little still..).. Anyways i hope theres little suprise in new video too


[B] - LINKIN PARK - [/B]

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