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Work in Progress / Synergy Editor - IDE for DarkBasic Professional

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Duke E
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Posted: 28th Jul 2009 04:10 Edited at: 28th Jul 2009 04:13
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Thanks Todd Riggins, i was getting cross eyed looking for an option to parse the semantics analysis in the background . Hope John can pinpoint it.

I get some improvement in speed while coding - turning off both "closing block statement" and the feature to automatically set the case for variables (not at my programming box so i do not know the exact name of that option).

Also, my project (some seven source files) takes enormous time to load and the editor locks up pretty bad while loading the separate files. Probably parsing the semantics on load i guess.

Edit: Enormous time loading.. everything is relative =)

Regards
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thedubdude
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Posted: 6th Aug 2009 19:14
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This editor would be more useful if you could individualize the bookmarks. For example I like the CodeSurge bookmark system wherein a unique numbered key is assigned to each book mark.
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John Y
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Posted: 6th Aug 2009 20:27 Edited at: 6th Aug 2009 20:27
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Guys, try the following BETA that Green Gandalf has been playing with and see if it fixes the slow down issues.

http://www.digitalzenith.net/synergyeditor/Synergy_Editor_2_Aug_09.zip

Synergy Editor - Available for free HERE!
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Todd Riggins
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Posted: 8th Aug 2009 00:57 Edited at: 8th Aug 2009 00:59
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Cool! That works a treat for me now. No slow problems here for me on the Aug 2, 09 version. Thanks!

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Duke E
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Posted: 8th Aug 2009 04:36 Edited at: 8th Aug 2009 04:55
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It is not much better imo...
My sourcefiles still takes 4-6 seconds to change when clicking from source tab to another, locking up and clearing the code window white.
(Semantics analysis only enabled, not "Error" or "Case")
Running on ~10k lines for my main source and 4k down on my other source files, 100 functions on main source, 9 source files total.
(Edit: yes the main source is abit large, however it helps debugging if i get the line numbers w.o needing to load the .tmp file )

Also a bug, had my source files altered on save:

After saving this:


It was loaded as this:


">Global" seems to be the culprit, as it adds a Cr/Lf after that.

However only that line was altered , have other lines with the "GlobalSoundVolume" variable that was unchanged.

Problem is most likely the ">" character is not spaced from the variable and that throws off something.


Regards
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hyrichter
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Posted: 8th Aug 2009 05:29 Edited at: 8th Aug 2009 05:33
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I hope I'm not way out of line commenting on this, but there are a couple things I've noticed that you could greatly improve.

The first one I mentioned here. While it works for most errors to just show what's in the errorreport.txt file, some errors just don't give you a proper explanation of the error. The best example of this is to have a constant declared twice. Synergy just says "Compilation failed (syntax errors)" and all the error report file says is "Failed to 'UnfoldFileDataConstants'" which is only slightly more helpful. If you use filemapping to get the error message from the compiler it will tell you "Constant declaration for '[constant name]' duplicated." Unfortunately in this case it doesn't give you a line number.

The other thing that I've noticed that would absolutely drive me nuts if I were using this IDE is the constant redrawing of the code explorer when it refreshes. In Delphi at least, you can do all the repopulating of a tree view behind the scenes, so to speak, and then it redraws after it's all updated -- very similar to the Sync command in DBP. The commands are BeginUpdate and EndUpdate. This also has the advantage of speeding up the updating process since it doesn't have to bother painting anything to the screen until you're ready. One thing that might help would be to use the LockWindowUpdate command. It also wouldn't hurt to let the code explorer keep the position it was scrolled to when it refreshes instead of jumping back to the top. Use the GetScrollPos and SetScrollPos commands in conjunction with the LockWindowUpdate command to avoid any redrawing.

Maybe there's an option for this that I didn't see, but it would be really nice to your users to be able to have the functions, labels, etc., all sorted alphabetically.

It does seem to be quite a nice IDE, and there are a few things I can learn from it as well. I can safely say that very few people can understand the amount of work goes into creating something that's seemingly not much more than a glorified notepad.

Edit: I just noticed that it does seem to remember your last scrolled to position in the code view, but something needs to be done about the redrawing. I'll bet just a LockWindowUpdate would take care of it.

CodeSurge
Version 1.0 finally released! Code your DBP projects in style. (And save the kittens!)
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BatVink
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Posted: 8th Aug 2009 11:23 Edited at: 8th Aug 2009 11:47
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I have just come back to this again, and downloaded the latest August build. I have a couple of issues...

1. When my program crashes, it doesn't go to the line in error. I don't mean it misses it by a line or two, it just doesn't even try. Am I missing a setting?
I checked the error in another editor, which found it OK. I made sure the source file where the error was, was open in the editor to be sure. I also generated a different error, which also failed to show up.

2. It would be good to have more info in the program title bar. I often have two similar projects open, and I cannot differentiate between them. Maybe use the Application title?

3. I have a program that failed to compile (UnfoldDataConstants error). The same project compiled OK in another editor, and the error definitely didn't exist - no duplicate constants. It was initially triggered by using F6 (I didn't want F6, but that's what I pressed!). Restarting Synergy cleared the error, and now it seems stable again.

4. The progress bar doesn't progress. It sits at 0%, then the program is compiled. This is a 10,000+ line program over 11 files, so it would be nice to know how it's progressing. {EDIT: Found the problem with this one, it was an option. I really like being able to continue working while it compiles ]

[EDIT] 5. CTRL-S to save current file would be nice, it's standard in Windows and fools me into a false sense of security. I press CTRL-S frequently in many applications as a safeguard.

[EDIT] Point 3 has reoccurred, this time without pressing F6.

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John Y
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Posted: 8th Aug 2009 21:24
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@Duke E

If you are comfortable sending me your project then please drop me a line at johnyouren AT blueyonder DOT co DOT uk (replacing the words in captitals with their respective character). Otherwise, if you can reproduce it with any other project/code send me that instead.

@hyrichter

Thanks for your feedback. The tree view is now locked during updates. The editor already catches runtime error lines, however, I've never made use of the error text. I'll investigate.

@BatVink

If possible, email me a project that won't compile correctly. I've added the application name to the window title now
You can change any feature of the interface through tools>Customize. But, just for good measure I've added CTRL+S by default!

Synergy Editor - Available for free HERE!
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John Y
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Posted: 8th Aug 2009 21:28
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Another beta for you to play with. I won't do a proper release until I am sure the files that are open but not part of the project are 100% working (although no problems at the moment).

http://www.digitalzenith.net/synergyeditor/Synergy_Editor_8_Aug_09.zip

* Application title now additionally contains the name of the project open
* Microsoft Visual Studio 2010 and Microsoft Office 2010 skins
* Tree control now refreshed completley before being redrawn
* New default accelerators for menu items

Synergy Editor - Available for free HERE!
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BatVink
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Posted: 8th Aug 2009 23:29
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Thanks for the updates I'm a little behind the progress on this, didn't realise it was possible to configure so much yourself.

I had a small problem. It was when I did things the wrong way, but it caused the application to crash out...

1. Create a new source document
2. Save it. You get an error message saying no files in project
3. Select File, Save Project. Enter a name, OK, and it crashes.

I realise I should have created a new project to do it right, and will do it this way in future anyway.

I don't have a suitable project to send for testing, sorry. If I come across a smaller project, I'll let you know.

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Joe T
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Posted: 8th Aug 2009 23:54
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Hey John, it's "Hamish McHaggis" here, you may remember me from all those eons ago (or then again... ). I have made a return to DBPro after many years and am looking to find the perfect editor, so it's good to see Synergy is still going strong. I hope you're open to suggestions, because I have a few:

* Could shift-tab be made to unindent single lines? At the moment it seems to do so only with multiple line selections.
* I see auto-complete with ctrl-shift works when you have entered in an entire word. Would it be possible to get it to work with only partially entered words?

I am also getting slowdown issues when pressing return, with both the latest betas. It seems to only become an issue when lines 45+ become visible on-screen.
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Green Gandalf
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Posted: 9th Aug 2009 14:37 Edited at: 9th Aug 2009 15:04
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John Y

I've experienced problems similar to BatVink with the latest version. Here are my steps:

1. Open Synergy using Blank Environment (set previously).
2. Choose New/File.
3. Enter some code.
4. Save As - browsed to a folder and saved the dba code using a new name.
5. Save Project As - browsed to the same folder, entered the name then pressed Save. Synergy crashed.

The following sequence works though:

1. Same as above.
2. Open/File - browse to previously saved dba file.
3. Save Project As - browse to same folder as before, choose the same name as before, then Save. Works fine.

Edit!! Sorry!! Spoke too soon. The project file is indeed saved - but is unusable. All the compile and run menus and buttons are greyed out and the project refuses to open when I restart the editor. I get a message about missing or invalid include files.

Edit2 There's also a problem with opening existing files. Most of my projects are FullScreen with 1680x1050x32 but when I open them in the latest editor it sometimes changes them to FullDesktop with a much lower screen resolution. I've never knowingly used FullDeskTop as an option. [Edit3 Can't confirm this. Just checked a couple of old .dbro files before opening them and they open fine. I suspect the ones I tested were corrupt from an earlier test. I'll leave this here in case anyone else experiences something similar.]

There also seems to be a noticeable lag when I enter a new line of code. As someone else noted that has been a problem with several recent betas of the editor. I'm using Vista and the project I opened had about 230 lines of code.
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John Y
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Posted: 9th Aug 2009 16:20 Edited at: 9th Aug 2009 16:24
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To fix the lag ensure that at least one of the folding options is chosen under 'folding', on the 'Text Editor' pane in Tools>Options. This is a bug with the underlying editor library and has been reported.


I've fixed the bug you reported. But you need to click either New>File (Add to project) or Open>File... (Add to Project) for the files to become part of the project, otherwise they are just free floating files that you can use. The idea is that you can have a file open with code in that you can copy from, or use it for reference. If you start the editor in 'show empty environment' mode then there are no source files associated with the project, hence problems when you try and load the project.

Synergy Editor - Available for free HERE!
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Green Gandalf
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Posted: 9th Aug 2009 18:21
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Thanks. I'll give it some more tests.
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John Y
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Posted: 9th Aug 2009 19:30
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http://www.digitalzenith.net/synergyeditor/Synergy_Editor_9_Aug_09.zip

* Fixed crash bug when saving a file that is not part of the project
* Fixed the slow down issue

Synergy Editor - Available for free HERE!
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BatVink
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Posted: 9th Aug 2009 23:09
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I've narrowed down my problem with "UnfoldFileDataConstants" preventing compilation, when there isn't actually a problem. It happens when I have multiple dba files open in the editor.

I also managed a different error, under similar circumstances. If I open a second dba file with no constants, then it complains that the first function in this second file that it comes to is duplicated.

I wonder if it's something to the temp file it compiles from? It says it's using temp.dbpro, but I see lots of files along the lines of "dbp420.tmp" in there too (these are building up rapidly, do they get deleted?).

I don't know if this is relevant to the issue, but U hace constants declared in more than one Dba file. They are different, but across multiple files.


The other issue I still have is that it doesn't highlight the line in error on crashing. This is a showstopper for me, as it makes fixing problems virtually impossible.

Yes, problems and errors. But overall, looking good

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John Y
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Posted: 10th Aug 2009 00:05
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There are still problems with include files caused from the changes to the core in these betas. Perhaps you could email me your dbpro file and list all of your source files out in the email so I can check that the dbpro file is created correctly.

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John Y
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Posted: 10th Aug 2009 21:24
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Quote: "It says it's using temp.dbpro, but I see lots of files along the lines of "dbp420.tmp" in there too (these are building up rapidly, do they get deleted?)."


Temp.dbpro is overwritten each time.

The tmp files are the full source dump, they are deleted after each compile.

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John Y
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Posted: 10th Aug 2009 21:25
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http://www.digitalzenith.net/synergyeditor/Synergy_Editor_10_Aug_09.zip

* Lines that cause runtime errors are highlighted within the editor

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BatVink
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Posted: 10th Aug 2009 22:48 Edited at: 10th Aug 2009 22:49
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Quote: " Lines that cause runtime errors are highlighted within the editor"


Fantastic, working for me and makes this editor very usable now.

Quote: "The tmp files are the full source dump, they are deleted after each compile."

Not sure if this is still happening now, but this is from the last few days...



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BatVink
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Posted: 11th Aug 2009 00:22
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I'm still getting the "UnfoldFileDataConstants" error, but now it also tells me which one it is failing on. Again, it has only happened when more than source file is open.

I tried to create a simple project to show the error, but that gave me other problems when starting from scratch - Failed to Lock Resource. I've attached this one, maybe I did something fundamentally wrong and it's not the editor.

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Green Gandalf
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Posted: 11th Aug 2009 00:53 Edited at: 11th Aug 2009 01:19
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I'm getting a strange problem when I open the editor. I've set it so that it starts a new project. However, it opens with some code that I was testing for someone on the forum several days ago.

Shouldn't a new project be an empty project regardless of what happens to be in the relevant Temp folder (I finally managed to find out which folder it was )?

I'm using the latest version but this problem has been present in several recent betas.

Edit This is only a problem on startup - if you've already opened files, etc, then the behaviour is fine.
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Duke E
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Posted: 11th Aug 2009 04:08
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Quote: "I'm getting a strange problem when I open the editor. I've set it so that it starts a new project. However, it opens with some code that I was testing for someone on the forum several days ago. "


Ditto, it now always opens some test code i wrote some week ago

The slow source tab changes are almost gone with the latest update though . Sometimes it takes a while longer but mostly a second or two.

Regards
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Todd Riggins
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Posted: 11th Aug 2009 06:16 Edited at: 11th Aug 2009 06:23
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Ignore my last post way up there about the Aug 02, 2009 version. I just got back to programming with that version today and see the "slow" problems with it that Duke saw with another project. Wierd.

Edit: I cant tell any difference with "slow" speed with the Aug 10 version... and my May 8th version expired

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BatVink
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Posted: 11th Aug 2009 23:01 Edited at: 11th Aug 2009 23:02
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I don't know if this helps with the problem with the duplicate constants problem I have, where they aren't actually duplicated. When I use "Find in Files", it shows the offending constant as being found twice, but in the same place in the same file. Is it using the same logic?



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BatVink
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Posted: 12th Aug 2009 00:21 Edited at: 12th Aug 2009 10:07
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I have found that one of the include files is repeated. The last one to be included gets added twice. It's the fonts.dba file...



[EDIT] I see it added the dba file to the list twice! This was definitely done by Synergy, the project is an old one and has been working fine in other editors.

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John Y
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Posted: 15th Aug 2009 13:01
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http://www.digitalzenith.net/synergyeditor/Synergy_Editor_14_Aug_09.zip

* Include files are not re-added when opened for the first time

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BatVink
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Posted: 15th Aug 2009 13:27
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John, I tested last night but didn't get chance to mail you. I compiled half a dozen times or so, and it didn't break it

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Green Gandalf
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Posted: 15th Aug 2009 19:17 Edited at: 15th Aug 2009 19:30
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I've encountered two problems with the latest version, one major and one minor:

1. Projects compiled and run on one machine will not always work correctly on another. For example, I've just tried to write a program so that it works on both my main PC (display mode 1680x1050x32) and my laptop (display mode 1280x800x32). The program was created on the PC and had the project display set to Fullscreen 1680x1050x32. The first line of the program is



in the belief that this would work on both machines.

Well, the resulting executables won't run correctly on the laptop. The symptom is that everything works except text is not displayed on the screen. However, if I reopen the project on the laptop and change the project display setting to 1280x800x32 then the code runs correctly.

How exactly should I create executables which run correctly on different machines? Is this an editor problem, a DBPro problem or a misunderstanding on my part?

In the past, programs compiled on one machine would reliably run on others.

EDIT It seems Fulldesktop works but not Fullscreen. If that is true how would a new user know? I don't know the difference between those two - or whether the set display mode is necessary.

2. Syntax highlighting is still not quite right. For example,



highlights correctly whereas



doesn't. Both versions compile fine.
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BatVink
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Posted: 15th Aug 2009 22:07
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I think there is still an issue with creating new projects. I created a new project using the standard option. This created a dbpro and dba file okay. But when I went to compile, I got errors, unable to create the exe file. It created an exe of 0 bytes, and a pck file, even though it is set to "exe" in the options. I closed the project reopened, and it still failed. I opened the project created by Synergy in another editor, and it could compile it.

A possible nice-to-have: Backing up every n minutes would be better creating just one backup which is overwritten each time, separate from the other timestamped backup options. I left my editor running and returned to 225 backup files!

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John Y
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Posted: 16th Aug 2009 14:28
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Quote: "I think there is still an issue with creating new projects. I created a new project using the standard option. This created a dbpro and dba file okay. But when I went to compile, I got errors, unable to create the exe file. It created an exe of 0 bytes, and a pck file, even though it is set to "exe" in the options. I closed the project reopened, and it still failed. I opened the project created by Synergy in another editor, and it could compile it."


This seems to be a DBPro bug. I just spent 2 hours tracking it down. If there are other files in the same directory as the exe with the same name then the exe that is created is corrupted. The solution is to make the exe name different to the project name.

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BatVink
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Posted: 16th Aug 2009 19:55
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The project title is gone again from the title bar. I know it's minor, but it may be indicative of other changes being lost

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Diggsey
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Posted: 17th Aug 2009 15:13
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Quote: "If there are other files in the same directory as the exe with the same name then the exe that is created is corrupted."


I always set them to the same name in CodeSurge and it works fine


New DBPro IDE + integrated debugger!
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John Y
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Posted: 17th Aug 2009 18:21
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Quote: "I always set them to the same name in CodeSurge and it works fine"


Do me a favour, and set everything to be the same. i.e. The exe name, project name, source file name and application title (perhaps the version info as well), and see if it causes any issues. I had:
NoCompile.exe
NoCompile.dbpro
NoCompile.dba

Guy's IDE couldn't run the app either, it just black screened. Changing the exe name to 'Application.exe' fixed it.

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Diggsey
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Posted: 17th Aug 2009 19:10
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Just tried it, setting everything that I possible could to 'NoCompile', and it worked fine

I have an idea what it could be though.

Maybe your IDE keeps one of the files open all of the time while codesurge does not, and the compiler tries to get write access to it or something


New DBPro IDE + integrated debugger!
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John Y
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Posted: 17th Aug 2009 19:23
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Quote: "Just tried it, setting everything that I possible could to 'NoCompile', and it worked fine"


Were all of the files in the same directory?

Quote: "Maybe your IDE keeps one of the files open all of the time while codesurge does not, and the compiler tries to get write access to it or something"


No, and it didn't work in Guy's IDE either. I'll reinstall DBP as I'm using an unknown version from a different windows installation.

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Diggsey
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Posted: 17th Aug 2009 19:38
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Quote: "Were all of the files in the same directory?"


Yes


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Green Gandalf
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Posted: 17th Aug 2009 23:02
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Quote: "If there are other files in the same directory as the exe with the same name then the exe that is created is corrupted. The solution is to make the exe name different to the project name."


I usually make my exe, dba and dbpro have the same name in the same directory and haven't encountered this problem with either XP or Vista with any version of Synergy (currently using 14 Aug version). In fact it would be convenient to have a setting which enables us make this the default setting - as in the original IDE.
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Green Gandalf
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Posted: 18th Aug 2009 00:39 Edited at: 18th Aug 2009 00:48
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I've just encountered a new problem - Synergy refuses to save the dba code when I try to "compile, save and run". This has the effect that it keeps running the previously compiled executable when I make changes to the code. I don't think it does this all the time otherwise I might have noticed it earlier ().

This has been happening after I make a new project, a variant of BatVink's problem perhaps?

I've just checked again. The problem disappears if I close Synergy and reopen the same project. It looks like a new project problem.

Edit I thought this might solve the problem:

Quote: "This seems to be a DBPro bug. I just spent 2 hours tracking it down. If there are other files in the same directory as the exe with the same name then the exe that is created is corrupted. The solution is to make the exe name different to the project name."


It doesn't - but it could be a related issue.
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cjb2006
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Posted: 18th Aug 2009 19:29
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I have a selfish request - I'm just a hobbyist so my projects drag on for, well, years at a time. I've used Synergy in my latest for quite some time because it was the first one I found that could handle multiple cursors easily. The one thing I haven't liked is being forced to update even when things are just fine. So, is it possible to remove the time stamp from one of the old releases, say like May. I know I can just set my system clock back but I think that was pretty stable and could be useful as a bridge until things get ironed out again.
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BatVink
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2009 17:40
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I have another odd one for you. I use IanM's console for debugging (an additional window, displaying text output). It works fine, except when using F8 to execute last build. On F8, the console never gets displayed. I can't even begin to offer an explanation.

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sladeiw
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Posted: 29th Aug 2009 01:53 Edited at: 29th Aug 2009 01:53
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Hi, first of all, great editor! I've been using it exclusively since U74.

My question: Is this the right place for posting issues about the official DB U74 version of Synergy or is there a dedicated thread?

Cheers
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Green Gandalf
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Playing: Malevolence:Sword of Ahkranox, Skyrim, Civ6.
Posted: 29th Aug 2009 12:53
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This is as good a place as any.
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deaths judge
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Posted: 7th Sep 2009 18:32
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great work i will try this out tonight. is there a feature that allows to open several projects in tabs.

[[[[wobble]]]] {{{{wobble}}}}
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sladeiw
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Posted: 8th Sep 2009 01:31 Edited at: 8th Sep 2009 11:59
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Below are the issues I am having with synergy after using it heavily for 2-3 weeks. If any of them have workarounds or I am just wrong then please let me know! I have had all of these same issues on 2 completely different computers so hopefully it's not something specific to my setup. (Although still possible)


Cursor Ibar disappearing - Intermittent - Open a project, open a help tab, close it, cursor disappears but can still type at where it should be. Click in the blank area to the right of the tabs and it comes back. Can't absolutely nail this down but it definitely happens after closing help tabs.

Whilst compiling if you switch to another application, (and editor loses focus) the output window slides away and when you come back to the editor and restore the output window the compilation progress has frozen. (Intermittent)

Using tabs in a constant definition (eg #constant<tab>TEST 1) sometimes causes syntax errors. (Intermittent depending on tab to space settings)

In code view the functions take a long time (5+ seconds on C2D 3.0ghz) to populate when 1st loading source, and you have to click in code window to refresh the initial view.

Folded functions don't display the function name.

No backup files created - be nice to have selectable number of recent revisions kept

Tab to spaces settings not respected properly after save - quit - reload - Edit: I think this was because I had different tab settings on 2 computers, dosen't happen now changed both to same.

Redrawing code view all the time does your head in.

Refreshing code view whilst you are scrolling through it resets to top of lists and you lose your place - esp if you scroll then click through a long list of functions.


Sorry if any have already been mentioned, I admit I haven't read this whole thread.
System is XP Pro SP3, Latest DBP, Bluegui, Darkink, Matrix1Utils, Cattlerustler's Serial Plugin, Kistech's DBConn plugin.

Even with these niggles it's still preferable over the default IDE by miles.
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sladeiw
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Posted: 21st Sep 2009 13:34
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Guess this isn't the right thread after all

John Y still working on this or just really busy? No posts since 16th Aug from him on this thread.
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Duke E
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Posted: 29th Sep 2009 18:21 Edited at: 3rd Oct 2009 05:09
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A constant in one sourcefile and putting the same constant in another source file but doubleslash remarking it causes the Synergy to spit out a Syntax error # only, no error text. I had to run the old editor to get the error, I suppose it's the compiler that can't handle it but the error returned is not recognized by Synergy.

Regards
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MayoZebraHat 1979
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Posted: 5th Oct 2009 07:22 Edited at: 5th Oct 2009 10:06
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So I take it that when synergy is the official editor they will be doing updates?

I'm having problems with it getting progressively slower as I work sometimes... even closing and opening it back up doesn't fix it usually. And when it opens many files it's quite slow as well.

Also the syntax auto complete feature always returns the first match after two words typed then space so I have to search in the list for what I want before that second space.

Another one, if I make a dot x,y and hit enter with auto complete it puts a space and a loop as if I entered "do".
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John Y
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Posted: 6th Nov 2009 17:03
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A quick update while I wait for some fixes back from Lee.

* Compiled in VS 2010 Beta 2
* Temporary removal of multi-thread code
* DOT isn't interpreted as DO by the closing block code

http://www.digitalzenith.net

Synergy Editor - Available for free HERE!
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MickeyIII
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Posted: 17th Nov 2009 23:02
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Johny Y,

I'm extremely frustrated with your latest version of Synergy, because I can't figure out how to ORDER my multiple source files. The way I did it in DBPro, and then Code-Surge(slow!) made it a little easier, was to click the up and down arrows to sort and order my .dba files. I THINK I used to be able to do this with your editor, but I could be mistaken.

Right now I've been using the #include command to append my functions but as most of use know, or I could be wrong about this, this doesn't help when you try to do the same for source files with nothing but Global variables in them.

Please, help me someone that knows, especially Johny Y, because Synergy is the best Editor yet...AND IT'S FAST!!!!!!!!! I don't want to have to take a huge leap in learning and cramming C++ knowledge or C# and XNA knowledge quite yet, although I would like to whip out my C++ Module I and C++ Module II textbooks some time.
I would absolutely love to use my DX 9 SDK, AND DX 10 SDK, because I CAN, in C++, or just dx9 with XNA 3.1 in C#, just whatever.

I guess I'm just saying that, instead of having a bunch of incomplete projects, be able to have a bunch of VERY SMALL COMPLETE projects and then gradually work my way up to one BIG project, and be able to say, "I've accomplished enough within the limits of DBPro, and now I can move on up to Visual Studio 2008 Express Edition, along with XN Resource Editor for my C++ resource files, and other FREE things I can find to supplement the limitations of the Express Edition with."

So, I've now realized that instead of ALWAYS using that stupid, inflexible search button at the bottom of all the forum pages every time I need help, TGC REALLY needs to make an advanced search feature for these forums, I'm going to actively ask for help on all of the forums that apply to what I want to do.

Of course I'm not going to ask for code or tutorials, I'm going to ask specific questions that pop up in my head, and I will take constructive criticism, even though I've been watching the Forums, and using TGC and DBPro products for 7 years, because I've been going about this all wrong.

Anyway, I just need some help with ordering my source files, or would it be better to start using the Free version of Dark GDK with C++, sense I'm not doing this to sell, but for knowledge and experience.

Thanks, and I'll in the future try to keep my rants and long paragraphs to a minimum for now on, unless otherwise needed.

Mickey III
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