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FPSC Classic Product Chat / Official FPSC Migration Discussion Thread

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Flatlander
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Posted: 26th May 2010 22:26 Edited at: 26th May 2010 23:42
Quote: "You can still build all levels of the game one by one, after all levels have been builded successfully, you just have to rename the loadingpages, level files, etc., then merge all files of the different levels into the level one folder, point the setup.ini to all existing levels,"


Have you tested it? I don't believe it is that simple. First of all all of the fpm files goes into the imageblock.bin file along with all of the images. I was going to test it when I noticed that there is no mapbank folder. Even if you set the flag not to use the imageblock.bin file, I believe there are still complications to this theory which one might not be a able to resolve. It's not that we are too lazy, it's just that it is probably very complicated.

I have been getting inconsistent results. Sometimes I can build 5 levels and crash on level 6 and other times it will crash on level 5. But, I can't get above 5. I know Blackfox has been able to get to 8 levels. WTHay? I really do hope Lee is taking this seriously. When I first heard of this issue my countenance dropped greatly. Did I spend all this time with RPG Mod for nothing? Will even the migration be worth its salt if this continues to be a major issue?

This issue should now be a priority fix.

Addendum:

I can consistently (100% of the time) build 4 levels but the 5th level is iffy to say the least.

In the days of yore I was able to build 12 or more levels. 1.04 days maybe 1.07? But there were a lot of other issues at that time as well.

Addendum #2:

This issue seems to be fragmented all over the FPSC forums. I just saw Lee's post in Wolf's locked thread. There was also a post in there by another who had a possible solution. I copied that and am saving it for testing. Since I am not at an official point of game development (other irons in the fire), I will do this later. Glad to see that it is being looked at seriously.

BTW, the levels I used initially for testing were very small and simple levels. I am using Windows 7 and have 8 GB of RAM. Still can't get passed 5 levels.

Soviet176
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Posted: 27th May 2010 03:05
I think a neat feature in 1.17 is the fix on the Multi-player issues some players have had. Though lee has said he is not going to do much of anything on the MP aspect of FPSC. I think the "Waiting to join" and connection issues should be resolved. I being a Network admin as my job, I would ofc know how to forward ports and open ports. Fire wall/AV's ect. Nothing I try will get the connection issues solved. I have read many threads on this issue. Some people get it to work, and others don't. Since I stopped making SP games and am going with MP. All my beta testers can't play because no one can connect. I think dedicated servers would solve this problem, or just make the connecting more efficient. What do you all think?

RoxasXIII
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Posted: 27th May 2010 06:51
When I play multiplayer FPSC Games, I use hamachi to host a server. Works every time. Only problem is that all those wanting to play the game need hamachi to connect.

Too much to do with too little time.
Shadowtroid
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Posted: 27th May 2010 14:16
Quote: "thanks for the reminder Shadowtroid."


No problem.

uman
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Posted: 27th May 2010 17:44 Edited at: 27th May 2010 17:45
It has nothing to do with laziness.

One hopefully makes a game - up to 50 levels apparently in FPSC if you can find work arounds for many other issues in the software that will allow that to be acheived successfully. All which will take users a great deal of time and effort - Its not for lazy people at all. The last thing that is needed is for any user to invest the required amount of time and effort required in developing a 50 level game in FPSC to find that is it not or never will be possible to compile it successfully.

FPSC - indie gamemakers/users are busy people too and thats why its a tool which is or was intended to allow speed of development - its an RAD tool for indie gamemakers who generally have few or little resources or rocket scientist skills - a tool that anyone can use to make and compile a game - great concept - great idea and what is and always has been needed by indie game makers.

So you make your game and you have a compile game feature which you use to complile you game - thats what its for and it should compile your game complete, successfully and ready for deployment without further intervention - otherwise theres no point in making a game or having the feature. Its not a tool which is particularly designed to make, 1 2 3, 4 or 5 levels and there should really be no restriction on the number of levels one can compile together successfully at all - at the click of a button. The restriction if any should be one of the amount of time it takes to compile a particular game which will obviously vary. Any limitations of individual Systems must be accounted for by the software to acheive a successful compile.


Make game - Compile game - Deploy Game.


This is not a new issue in general amongst indie game engines, however thats not the point either. If you are a developer of a game engine and want to attract some serious numbers of users who are going to look at using your software to actually invest enough time and effort using it to develop a serious game of 50 levels even at the small size of FPSC levels, then at least those people should be able to expect that after all the investment "They" have made that their game will compile successfully so that they can gain some recompence for their effort and the fruits of their labour, even if its just so they and others will be rewarded and can actually play the game, which is what its all about. Otherwise again theres no point in ever expecting anyone to make that kind of investment in attempting to develop a full and complete game with FPSC.

Indeed if it wont compile then its never going to happen is it.

This is just one of many, many basic features or issues which hold back FPSC. The Eye Candy alone no matter how much of it will never make successful games for indie developers which require quite basic things in place as pre-requisites to successful game making.

Which is why there are so few successful commercial indie games around even today.

It is not an easy task either to develop or compile successully a 50 game level using any indie engine so who knows maybe one day someone will do it with FPSC if it is or will ever be in fact even possible.

Wont be me that does it thats for sure.




250 seamless textures : http://www.umedia.co.uk
Marc Steene
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Posted: 27th May 2010 19:16
Aside from the obvious stability issues, another big gripe I have about FPSC is that there isn't enough control, both over the player and entities. What I mean is, there should be more controls to alter the player's camera and movement types (possible through Project Blue), but also the movement of entities themselves. For example, the movefore command and waypoints should work for entities, and not just characters.


[b]FPSC MIGRATION: http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=142497&b=21
veer
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Posted: 27th May 2010 19:40
waypoints does work for entities also

used the lift script( used for antigravity in scifi )


10 level game should be more than even ..... so i ready to merge two built of 5 level ....problem solved
BlackFox
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Posted: 27th May 2010 19:46 Edited at: 27th May 2010 20:12
Quote: "So you make your game and you have a compile game feature which you use to complile you game - thats what its for and it should compile your game complete, successfully and ready for deployment without further intervention - otherwise theres no point in making a game or having the feature. Its not a tool which is particularly designed to make, 1 2 3, 4 or 5 levels and there should really be no restriction on the number of levels one can compile together successfully at all - at the click of a button. The restriction if any should be one of the amount of time it takes to compile a particular game which will obviously vary. Any limitations of individual Systems must be accounted for by the software to acheive a successful compile."


Agreed. Like my wife was saying this morning over breakfast. Go to the x9 page and read the More Features section in the About page.

Quote: "Create multi-level games (up to 50 levels)"


Perhaps that should be reworded as it is a little misleading. I'm certain you can build 50 levels, but you can't built a game containing 50 levels, unless you do the "walk-around" that has been suggested. For us, it was a little disheartening when we completed a project, went to build it for commercial deployment and it would not build our 10 level game. We made a solution, and got the project deployed in time, but it should not have to be this way.

We're still happy with this application. We just hope this issue will be addressed.

- BlackFox

Shadowtroid
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Posted: 27th May 2010 22:42
Yeah, me too. In fact, even if it makes the game 10 times as long to compile, I'm still for better compiling.

Soviet176
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Posted: 27th May 2010 23:26
Quote: "When I play multiplayer FPSC Games, I use hamachi to host a server"


Yes I used to do the same thing but that isn't very professional. Like you said, users need to download hamachi, not to many users want to do that. Especially not the public. Personally I think its just a bug, or the code isn't working as intended. I notice that any game a user creates can be seen on your screen. Which leads me to believe that maybe FPSC is not sending packets from your computer to another. The connection issue is rather annoying.

xplosys
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Posted: 28th May 2010 00:09
Quote: "What I mean is, there should be more controls to alter the player's camera and movement types"


Amen.

Plystire
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Posted: 28th May 2010 00:29
Yeah, so we can have the player bob their head up and down like a chicken when they run around!!! (joke )


The one and only,


Toasty Fresh
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Posted: 28th May 2010 02:37
I think the footsteps need to go altogether too. It's not that integral to the game and gets very old after a while.
BlackFox
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Posted: 28th May 2010 02:52 Edited at: 28th May 2010 02:53
Quote: "I think the footsteps need to go altogether too. It's not that integral to the game and gets very old after a while. "


Just replace with a "clucking" sound. It will go good with the chicken head bob.

- BlackFox

Thraxas
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Posted: 28th May 2010 10:06
Quote: "I think the footsteps need to go altogether too. It's not that integral to the game and gets very old after a while.
"


But all the AAA titles have footsteps... so we MUST have footsteps.

/sarcasm

Your signature has been [mod edited] :-p
Doomster
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Posted: 28th May 2010 14:47
Quote: "I think the footsteps need to go altogether too"

Just replace the sound files (audiobank\materials)... oh, and RPG Mod has an action that activates/deactivates them, as far as I know.

-Doomster

BlackFox
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Posted: 28th May 2010 19:17
Quote: "But all the AAA titles have footsteps... so we MUST have footsteps."


Footsteps are so... old school

Chicken clucking is the new way to go.

- BlackFox

Flatlander
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Posted: 28th May 2010 20:13 Edited at: 28th May 2010 20:15
Quote: "and RPG Mod has an action that activates/deactivates them, as far as I know."


Yes it does. That was the first setup flag I put in.

I don't think it should go out of a development tool but I do think it should be an option.

BMB
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Posted: 28th May 2010 21:04
If we get the whole head bobbing like a chicken thing, that most modern fps games have, then I hope you're able to cut it off. I love FPS games, but can't play most newer ones for more than an hour without getting motion sickness from the character's head constantly moving around on me.

RoxasXIII
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Posted: 28th May 2010 23:56
If we had terrain flags, we could assign different footsteps sounds to different terrain. Grass would be softer, concrete a lot harder. Games would also be somewhat more immersive(?) than they currently are.

Too much to do with too little time.
DarkJames
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Posted: 29th May 2010 01:23 Edited at: 29th May 2010 02:32
Hockeykid has lately declared a "Floor Logic View cone angle Fix"!!!

That means!! that Dark ai enemies now can shoot down stairs!!
AWZUM right?


Edit: This too

Quote: " the AI can now use the Y axis meaning they can move up and down between layers via stairs and what not.
"


Hockeykid
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Posted: 29th May 2010 01:52
Quote: "Hockeykid has lately declared a "Floor Logic View cone angle Fix"!!!"


I did?

DarkJames
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Posted: 29th May 2010 02:02
Yes in Urban combat.

Hockeykid
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Posted: 29th May 2010 02:07
Quote: "Yes in Urban combat."


The only thing I said in Urban Combat is that the AI can now use the Y axis meaning they can move up and down between layers via stairs and what not.

DarkJames
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Posted: 29th May 2010 02:27
But that also mean they can view up a stair?

DarkJames
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Posted: 29th May 2010 02:34 Edited at: 29th May 2010 02:35
Edit: NVM Wrong thread

Marc Steene
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Posted: 29th May 2010 10:00
Quote: "AI can now use the Y axis meaning they can move up and down between layers via stairs and what not."


You're doing a really good job with the DarkAI, Hockeykid. One of the most problematic issues it will fix (for me, anyway) is that the AI currently try to run through walls to reach the player - now they will use proper pathfinding. Oh, and of course, allies


[b]FPSC MIGRATION: http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=142497&b=21
starmind 001
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Posted: 29th May 2010 21:13
I am curious are there any updates or just random posts about nothing to do with updates?? I'd say if a mod would go through this they would clear up quite a few pages of just nothing.

I did have a point to posting here today. I was wondering if it was possible to have like the ability to have the option to say shoot the hat or helmet off the ai? Even the ability to shoot the weapon out of their hand. Also I was playing around with another game engine and for their ragdoll effects, they have the ai destroy and activate the ragdoll which is dynamic in the sense that you can continue to fire and make the body move by just shooting it.

Also will it be possible to add scale into the editor or make something into a csg object? Make it possible for say a bridge to appearspawn to show animations and allow the plr to walk across.

I think the editor should be more able to be customized by the user, as far as graphics, buttons, project build cap(where it asks how many levels and only allows for it) and a newer theme over all.

Perhaps my post is just nothing, but I think it would help out abit.

Marc Steene
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Posted: 29th May 2010 21:21
Quote: "I was wondering if it was possible to have like the ability to have the option to say shoot the hat or helmet off the ai?"


Already possible with Fenix Mod. You'll need to animate your character with his hat and then the animations to make it fly off. Then, using the headshot condition to detect when a headshot has ocurred, run the character's animations for the hat to fly off.


[b]FPSC MIGRATION: http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=142497&b=21
Shadowtroid
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Posted: 29th May 2010 23:41
I think what he means is bone detection... Which would be epic.

CrescentMoon
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Posted: 30th May 2010 00:13
Quote: "I think what he means is bone detection... Which would be epic."


and really difficult to implement :x

I say fix the efficiency and stability of the engine first! If it lets us add 50 levels in the build game section then it shouldn't crash after 5 freakin levels >>

After we have an engine that won't crash after building 1/10 of its level limit "then" we can focus on extorting...err..."asking" lee for more bells and whistles

[WIP] Paranorma Chapter 1, The Horror at Blacklake Inn
Plotline-In-Progress
Plystire
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Posted: 30th May 2010 18:16
Why are you posting about Xara in this thread, ColtFang? That's shameless promotion and entirely offtopic. To make mention of having a mod's features in the migration doesn't require a video or even an all-caps introduction.

I still say (as CrescentMoon has stated) that efficiency and stability of the engine should come first and foremost. Performance-wise FPSC could use a boost.


The one and only,


Shadowtroid
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Posted: 30th May 2010 18:42
Quote: "Performance-wise FPSC could use a boost."


Yeah, it could. However I've heard about crash fixes and with the timer system I hope it does work.

Flatlander
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Posted: 30th May 2010 21:26 Edited at: 30th May 2010 21:28
Quote: "I still say (as CrescentMoon has stated) that efficiency and stability of the engine should come first and foremost. Performance-wise FPSC could use a boost."


I have slowed down with everything (almost to a standstill) until I hear more about it being resolved. Personally, since I think it has to do with the actual compiler, Lee should halt all work on the migration and fix it. If it has to do with the engine then he should fix it for v1.16 and have a special bug-fix release. Lord knows Microsoft does that all the time and so do other reputable software companies. This has been an issue way too long. Although, it does show how very few people are actually building multi-level stand-alone games.

Hockeykid
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Posted: 31st May 2010 00:19
Quote: "I have slowed down with everything (almost to a standstill) until I hear more about it being resolved. Personally, since I think it has to do with the actual compiler, Lee should halt all work on the migration and fix it. If it has to do with the engine then he should fix it for v1.16 and have a special bug-fix release. Lord knows Microsoft does that all the time and so do other reputable software companies. This has been an issue way too long. Although, it does show how very few people are actually building multi-level stand-alone games."


Not to get anyones hopes up put about 2 weeks ago Lee updated one of DBPro's DLLs that I believe was suppose to fix the issue with building multiple levels. I tested this 2 days ago by building 10 levels, it worked although these levels were not very big. If someone would like me to give this a real test feel free to send me .fpms of a game made from stock media and I can give it a test.

Soviet176
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Posted: 31st May 2010 03:07 Edited at: 31st May 2010 03:07
@hockeykid

Just wondering, I know lee and yourself said that there was not going to be any new features with multi-player (which is fine) but is it possible that somewhere in the bottom of the list of "To do's" could you possibly try and find out why people are having such a problem with connectivity when it comes to multi-player? is there any way that TGC can slap in something that allows for better connection so we are not getting the notorious "Waiting to join" problem. As I stated before, I have forwarded all my ports, opened my fire walls (even disabled) And still, my beta testers and I cannot even get a game going without hamachi. Which leads me to believe this is because of packet transfer errors or the lack of a dedicated server. Thank you.

BlackFox
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Posted: 31st May 2010 03:14 Edited at: 31st May 2010 03:27
Quote: "Not to get anyones hopes up put about 2 weeks ago Lee updated one of DBPro's DLLs that I believe was suppose to fix the issue with building multiple levels. I tested this 2 days ago by building 10 levels, it worked although these levels were not very big. If someone would like me to give this a real test feel free to send me .fpms of a game made from stock media and I can give it a test"


Stock-only levels won't resolve your answer here. I can understand you wanting to have fpm's of levels to test and ensure it can build past the normal 5 levels. However, one must also consider the levels that don't use stock media and have a lot of special-designed media. So by you testing stock-only levels will not mean it will work for other developments.

In order to have a true answer as to whether this has fixed the build issue, you will need an assortment of levels, both with stock and with very little stock. You can't run a test on one system type and expect to solve the issue. We all have different systems, and there could be a variety of reasons to why building is such an issue.

I would rather see Lee address this himself and perhaps consider the idea of us game developers somehow testing this "dll" to ensure it has fixed the issue. This would give Lee a variety of test results and that should give him the answer he is seeking.

- BlackFox

Shadowtroid
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Posted: 31st May 2010 03:46
He wants to use stock-only levels to ensure he as the media...If you send a level with Model pack 10 stuff but he doesn't have model pack 10 then it won't appear.

BlackFox
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Posted: 31st May 2010 03:51
Quote: "He wants to use stock-only levels to ensure he as the media"


That is the point in my post above. I'm not discrediting the idea, merely pointing out that one can't just rely on an issue being fixed with stock-only levels. For example, we software programmers design software and have to test it on various OS to ensure stability and functionality. Otherwise, we will only be able to help those that can run the software, and the rest fall by the wayside. When software works on one OS or system and not others, then technical support has to determine what the issue could be with a wide variety of variables (ex: what apps are running in background, speed of system, RAM, etc).

It's the same case in this instance. Stock-only levels may not be the issue with building. Perhaps it is the custom media that is the issue, or something else.

- BlackFox

Shadowtroid
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Posted: 31st May 2010 03:58
Well yeah, but he may not be able to build it. Which would...defeat the entire purpose. And if we could compile the Google code version then we could test it ourselves.

uman
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Posted: 31st May 2010 20:06
Not sure I know much about it but if anyone might expect to make a game proper with FPSC and go to the extent of developing 50 quality full levels - 40 x 40 tiles - with a great deal of complex detail which is what one could expect from a real game - (and at the end of the day you cant tell people well you can only use stock media to make their game with.)

One needs to be able to test out such a full scale development with custom media otherwise theres no point in having that provision of 50 levels or the option to use custom media.....

Either you can make a of game of 50 levels and using included custom media or you cant and when selling or promoting a product that should be clear or just say well you may or may not be able to do so, or success will depend upon factors, a, b, c or whatever. So its a maybe or you can try which is neither Yes you can or No you cant. Whichever it needs to be clear to purchasers and users.

Point being unless someone actually creates 50 such levels and tests them extensively I dont really know how you can confirm this. No one has done so to date as far as I am aware.

Disregarding the 50 level thing even compiling a successful game of a much lower number of fully completed levels at this stage seems like its likely to be quite an undertaking to acheive if one considers the range of users and their systems which will vary quite widely.

I am not trying to be silly here but merely looking at some logic.

If one considers a game of say 10 full levels completed needing to be compiled...

We all know that FPSC levels can be extremely large in file size and that experience shows that historically and to date that FPSC is itself overall not very efficient at handing those files as levels for various reasons.

If one can create say 10 such levels and play those levels in test mode or as individual compiled levels successfully with
some efficiency in gameplay and without error in level or gameplay then that is the first obstacle which one needs to be proven to be possible accross a range of user systems. That needs stability and issues cleared up on the engine part and it needs the user to ensure that there are no errors in their own build or code.

Given that is the case then compile is a matter of stringing those levels together witout error in compile as a game as their credibility individually would have been proven without which theres no point in compiling together.

Given now that you have proven that the individual levels are credible in that way and without error one has to compile them as a game in the first instance which one can assume will take an efficient and error free compile system making adaequate management provision of an individuals systems memory allocation in doing so. If an individuals system runs out of memory during compile then it will fail so memory management would need to be somewhat well catered for and presumably dynamic in management to accomodate differing systems available memory resources. Otherwise I guess its off to the render farm for some at least to get your game compiled.

If you do successfully compile your game without error then in the second instance one has to consider the gameplay. A full game of 10 levels x 40 x 40 tiles if complex in content will take how long to load levels? and will it be playable? You wont know until its actually compiled together and try and play it.

Thinking 50 levels one would not like to hazzard a guess of what kind of effort it would take to firstly make a full and complete game with FPSC, leave alone compile it or play it, with FPSC as it currently stands.

One important aspect which needs serious consideration and attention in creation of game levels in editor is testing levels where compile run takes place in test mode. This will give an indication of how efficient game compile is going to be.

Currently in editor the test compile time efficiency is poor to say the least, both during the compile and on the return exit to editor which can in complex levels take a very long time and waste a vast amount of your development time - especially at the moment when one has to test much more than one should need to because you must test continuously to check that engine issues presently are or are not a problem. One spends more time compiling and testing and checking for errors or trying to rectify errors than actually building or developing.

Where did the idea of double compile in test mode where portals and so on are compiled twice come from? What a waste of users time that is. I understand that it relates to trying to ensure error free compile?

Lets hope that double compile is not a part of the new version when it comes out.

At the end of the day irrespective of any individual issues FPSC is inefficient overall and is so in memory management and handling so it seems to me. Improving that must be a difficult task. Its not the only indie engine to suffer and having said that actually it does quite well considering what users expect from it and what TGC have tried to provide to users with it.

Expectations and aspirations perhaps are high all round which is not a bad thing. If it were not the case in the idie world in general then nothing would drive development forward.

Long may it be so.




250 seamless textures : http://www.umedia.co.uk
Le Shorte
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Posted: 31st May 2010 21:15
Wow. That was the longest post I've ever seen on a forum on any site. Bravo, I say to you.

http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=166194&b=25
Rads, revived for the X10 Revival on May 29th, 2010
Woolfman
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Posted: 31st May 2010 22:07 Edited at: 31st May 2010 22:11
BAH! Use some sense people. What can be the best way to test something that was just created. Use something that you know already works. Which would be STOCK models. Then IF that works maybe there can be some more tests done on Custom stuff. Everyone is jumping the gun and complaining already.

I'll brake it down so that it's simple for everyone.

hockeykid
said this about 7 posts ago.
Not to get anyones hopes up put about 2 weeks ago [u]Lee[/u](So Lee is the one that worked on it not hockeykid) updated one of DBPro's DLLs that I believe was suppose to fix the issue with building multiple levels. ... If someone would like me to give this a real [u]TEST[/u](He's not the one fixing it but he's willing to test it. So that he can a least confirm that it basically works.) feel free to send me .fpms of a game made from stock media and I can give it a test.

Now if something was unclear well
BlackFox
FPSC Master
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Posted: 31st May 2010 22:39 Edited at: 31st May 2010 22:40
Quote: "What can be the best way to test something that was just created. Use something that you know already works. Which would be STOCK models. Then IF that works maybe there can be some more tests done on Custom stuff. Everyone is jumping the gun and complaining already. "


I don't see anyone complaining at all. If that's the method Lee wants to take, then by all means have at it. From what we have observed, not many people use just stock-only media, hence the discussion on whether this method would in fact be viable. Some people use this software for their hobby, whereas we have added it to our list software to produce commercial products. As an owner myself, I would like to not have to split my products each time we do a build. Four completed products have been released; most using a mix of stock and custom media and having to be split into two.

As stated before, if they want to go this route, then that is their decision. When it comes time for testing with custom media, we hope that Lee may consider letting those of us creating products to test this "fix" to ensure that it does work with our custom media.

Quote: "I'll brake it down so that it's simple for everyone. "


Thank you for taking the time to make it simple.

- BlackFox

uman
Retired Moderator
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Location: UK
Posted: 31st May 2010 23:16
Nothing about making a game engine or a game is simple.

"Whats unclear" - or more correctly so - is quite clear, is that people find they cant compile their games.

It does not matter at all if anyone wants to test the capability of an engine in this case FPSC to make, compile and deploy or deliver a game to end user game players successfully............

Using stock media is fine - so to test it someone needs to make a 50 level game with FPSC (TGC if you like as a demo of the engine) - fill those levels with content....your world objects, lifts, decals, AI characters and so on and just about anything else you can think of that one might place in a game level that needs to be tested - Yes all stock media is fine. Then compile on any machine you like - as powerful a spec as you like if you can and deliver to users for testing.

If it works then you can say it does - otherwise it dont.

Go half way - 25 levels of stock media is good? 10 levels perhaps?

FPSC has not just been created - its been in development almost 10 years from concept.

If and when it does work then a single compiled packed up file .exe would be good without need for any form of stringing together levels with any workaround and searching for media to pack in any way you can find.

Make game, compile game, deploy game.

And on that note I will end my comments on this one.



250 seamless textures : http://www.umedia.co.uk
Shadowtroid
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Posted: 31st May 2010 23:49
Guys, he only wanted stock media because the media is not included in the FPM. I don't think it's any different for stock or custom media. And he could build his own level using custom media, but he has better things to do.

I think you all are reading too much into this...If you made a level entirely out of media only you have then if you send him the FPM nothing would show up.

If you want to test it just compile the new version.

Nickydude
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Posted: 1st Jun 2010 00:22
If you have a particular stubborn issue then you could pack up and send your entire 'Files' folder, yes it will take a while to pack and really depends on your internet speed but it is possible. I had a particular error which used custom media, I mentioned this to Lee he said to pack and send the entire 'Files' folder, that way he's have the exact media that I had, apparently this bug is fixed in V1.17.

A r e n a s
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Posted: 1st Jun 2010 02:20
I think that now that Airmod is being integrated, it would be awesome if the other 3 mods which came out of the co-operation on the mod leaders were integrated as well By this I mean s4mod, Plys mod, and lemur. I think that was it :S EFX would be a pretty cool mod to have merged as well

I think im getting much too far ahead of myself though Just like to say that you guys have done a great job so far with the migration I really cant wait for it to come out

Soviet176
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Posted: 1st Jun 2010 02:46
Sooooo many smiley faces!!!

LeeBamber
TGC Lead Developer
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Posted: 1st Jun 2010 02:48
Hi Guys,

Sorry for not chiming in earlier in this thread but you seem to have everything under control. It's great to see you share information and keep the pot bubbling while Hockeykid and I tinker with V117 inerds.

I just wanted to announce a call to action for anyone who has large multi-level builds using custom everything and getting build failures. One of my personal goals for V117 is to vanquish this rather silly build failure problem once and for all. I have started this by monitoring the actual virtual address consumption and reporting it in real-time, and forcing the build to stop gracefully if it gets too close to the 2GB limit. This way you won't get random crashes, and you can gracefully get back into the interface, all be it a little miffed that your level did not build.

All the build problems have a single route cause, and took me quite a while to identify as the crash seemed at first to be random and maliciously inconsistent. Even a nice system like mine that has 6GB to use will only allocate 2GB to the 32-bit application that does the building. The rest is 'normally' given to the OS to play with. Unlike regular memory allocation where you can reserve a few MB, use it, then release it later, a special scenario unfolds in virtual address space where memory is reserved, and later freed, but the address pointers unique to that earlier allocation are not given back. The upshot is that as more memory is created, released, created, release, you have less and less fresh address pointers to play with until you simply run out of fresh space to allocate memory from. This is called fragmentation and unfortunately is quite unavoidable in applications that make heavy use of the C++ object system (used by DBP). Unfair I know, but there it is. To combat this, I identified a few areas in the build process such as the light mapper, which allocated many small chunks of memory, and created an artificial memory heap to contain these allocations. At the end of each level's light mapping step, I simply drop the whole heap and all the virtual address space is restored ready to be used again. Unfortunately this can only be done in specific cases where raw memory blocks are created and released, and this does not happen as often as you might think. Now I know which monster I am actually doing battle with, I can continue to look for memory allocations that are likely candidates to shift to a secondary heap, but I have hit the big ones already and the rest will be few and far between.

Bottom line is that I want to test your biggest, nastiest multi-level games with V117 to ensure the build process completes each and every time, and in those cases where half a planet is being squeezed into 2GB, it reports gracefully with something useful. Email me directly if you would like to get involved and we can work out the best way to get your project and media onto my PC. A good way is an upload service such as MegaUploads, or even send it on DVD, but I am available to ensure your monster game builds are easily handled by V117 (as it should).

NOTE: I have one idea that I think might work, and mimics the cool workarounds you guys have found to build larger games. The reason why building small clumps of levels and adding them together works is that a single build session never gets close to the 2GB limit because you terminate the slowly fragmenting process before it gets there. Instead of the engine attempt to build all levels in one go, it builds only a single level then terminates, and immediately re-launches itself to build the next level, and so on. This way the virtual address fragmentation won't get anywhere near 2GB and you can sit back and watch 50 levels build without worrying (that is, if your level worked in test game, it 'will' work in build game). I will probably experiment with this idea when I get some monster game projects through the door. V117 is a great opportunity to solve this build issue once and for all, and I hope you can help provide me with likely candidates, ideally ones that bring V116 to it's little knees

I drink tea, and in my spare time I write software.

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